DETERMINATION OF A SAFE STABLE COIN: What should newbies do?

Pmalek

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Quote from: bitbollo on March 14, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

Why using a shitcoin as unit of measure for everything?

Because that's the way it works right now. I just tell it how it is. Walk into your newest grocery store and check the prices on the shelves. Are they in BTC or your local fiat currency? When your mechanic changes your winter to summer tires, he handles you a bill denominated in fiat, not BTC. When your electricity bill arrives every month, the amount you owe is shown in fiat. When you go to the dentist to remove a rotten tooth, the doctor asks you cash or credit card, not bitcoin or ethereum. If and when we get to the point where these services would rather take your BTC, then we are on the right path. But we aren't there.

Quote from: bitbollo on March 14, 2023, 02:37:11 PM

If value is not directly related to fiat but only to btc...our crypto become a stablecoin with all advantages that I have described early in my previous post.

But that's an "if" it will happen and "when". We are currently no where close to living in such a world.

bitbollo

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@Pmalek
Why using a shitcoin as unit of measure for everything?

If value is not directly related to fiat but only to btc...our crypto become a stablecoin with all advantages that I have described early in my previous post.

I dont want convince anyone, but if you change perspective... you can realize why I think definition of stabile currency can be adopted with Bitcoin and why its more stable than fiat currency.
My 2 satoshi

Pmalek

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Quote from: bitbollo on March 13, 2023, 01:56:59 PM

Meanwhile
1 btc = 1 btc
Total emission = 21 milions coins already planned and defined.
Isnt a stable Coin

?

No, it's not stable. Value is measured against fiat whether we like it or not. That's the way it's going to be until and if bitcoin becomes the asset that everything else is compared with. A highly doubtful scenario. An asset that goes from $23k down to $20k and then back up to almost $26k in 15 days isn't stable.

Quote

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry

That quote from satoshi is out of place. Satoshi said that in relation to Bitcoin's 10 minute block time, replying to a user who thought transaction confirmations must be quicker than 10 mins on average.

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Quote from: Pmalek on March 12, 2023, 01:03:18 PM

Quote from: Lucius on March 12, 2023, 09:42:36 AM

I believe that people would be much more inclined to pay tax on that type of income - but according to my law, I would have to file a report every time I receive a payment, which means every week of the year.

Exactly. They don't make it easier for the payers. Their rigid and ill-conceived rules expect you to pay your tax within a day or two of receiving your signature payment, and then run to your local tax office a few days later, stand in line, and submit the paperwork. I am supposed to skip work every week to to that? Yeah, right.

Quote from: bitbollo on March 12, 2023, 12:26:38 PM

serious question, why focus on fiat stable coins when the real stable coin...is bitcoin!?

Bitcoin is stable only in your dreams. Wink

Fiat or stablecoins can be seized, have inflation, are centralized more and more and more other negative things. Probably they have also some defects.

Meanwhile
1 btc = 1 btc
Total emission = 21 milions coins already planned and defined.
Isnt a stable Coin

?

Quote

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry

Rikafip

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Quote from: Pmalek on March 13, 2023, 12:08:30 PM

I think our tax expert already covered that in some of his posts. No idea where though.

You are right, I managed to find the posts from last year where guys discussed exactly that. As a matter of fact I think I saw those posts before but I guess I decided to block it when I saw how impractical it is to actually do it.

Government's short-sightedness never ceases to amaze me; instead of making it easy so people can report it and they get some money out of it, they made is so complicated that no one will bother with it, meaning less money for them. GG

Pmalek

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Quote from: Lucius on March 13, 2023, 06:22:52 AM

If something hasn't changed, then it's exactly as @Pmalek confirmed. As far as I know, if you are employed, what you get from signature campaigns should be declared as other income and reported every time you receive a payment.

Yes, because you worked for it. You provided a service and got paid for it. The law doesn't make sense because I think you are required to pay tax on the current value at the point you received it. But we saw what happened with bitcoin in the last few days. It went down 10%, then it went up over 10% in a day. By the time you have converted the BTC into fiat, you could have lost money on it, but the government doesn't care.

Quote from: Rikafip on March 13, 2023, 09:17:39 AM

Hm good point, for a moment I forgot that signature campaign payment is seen as 2nd income. I think I'm gonna ask it in the taxes thread in our local board since there is our guy there that knows this crypto taxes stuff inside & out.

I think our tax expert already covered that in some of his posts. No idea where though.

Quote from: Crypt0Gore on March 13, 2023, 10:49:51 AM

Pooya87, your comment makes it sound as if stable coins are more useful for altcoin traders than Bitcoin traders, but what about us?
Because I don't trade any other pair than BTC/USDT.

I can't lie, I am able to get my hands on Bitcoin by taking advantage of dumps in the market because of stable coins, I always swap my Fiat into USDT at first, and wait patiently for a dump...

You can just as easily avoid USDT and purchase your coins on exchanges that support fiat through USD, EUR, or whatever you use. Even the (so-called) popular P2P centralized exchanges allow buying with various fiat payment options. You don't need Tether for what you are doing at all.

Crypt0Gore

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 11, 2023, 11:51:20 PM

Stable coins have never been good and have never really helped cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. What they mainly did was to help short term traders get in and out of different altcoins and even between exchanges quickly. Otherwise we always knew that even the biggest stablecoins are too risky to use considering how centralized and mostly shady they are. They can even freeze your coins any time they want: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/updated-psa-most-stablecoins-can-be-frozen-even-in-your-own-wallets-5204055

Pooya87, your comment makes it sound as if stable coins are more useful for altcoin traders than Bitcoin traders, but what about us?
Because I don't trade any other pair than BTC/USDT.

I can't lie, I am able to get my hands on Bitcoin by taking advantage of dumps in the market because of stable coins, I always swap my Fiat into USDT at first, and wait patiently for a dump or create an order on the exchange.Stablecoinsins are useful, both for buyers and traders only.

Rikafip

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Quote from: Lucius on March 13, 2023, 06:22:52 AM

As far as I know, if you are employed, what you get from signature campaigns should be declared as other income and reported every time you receive a payment. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the income tax you pay if you sell crypto, but with the income you get from some extra work. However, it is best to seek a professional opinion.

Hm good point, for a moment I forgot that signature campaign payment is seen as 2nd income. I think I'm gonna ask it in the taxes thread in our local board since there is our guy there that knows this crypto taxes stuff inside&out. Not planning to report it though, it will be just for academic purposes. Grin

jeraldskie11

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Quote from: Pmalek on March 12, 2023, 01:03:18 PM

Quote from: bitbollo on March 12, 2023, 12:26:38 PM

serious question, why focus on fiat stable coins when the real stable coin...is bitcoin!?

Bitcoin is stable only in your dreams. Wink

I agree. Bitcoin is not created to have the price stable. Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency ever created. So if it is only created to be a stable coin meaning there's no difference in fiat, there's no sense of creating it. Even though Bitcoin make transactions fast and easy without being worried about the high fees from the bank, we can't deny that people start getting interest in Bitcoin because it can make them rich if they invested in it.

Lucius

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Quote from: Rikafip on March 12, 2023, 12:51:57 PM

Even if same things happened to Tether (which would have much bigger consequences to the market than fall of UST had), I don't think that situation would change much. If anything, someone would come up with another ingenious way of even less stable "stablecoin".

Some new way is certainly an option, people are inventive when it comes to creating value from nothing. However, if someone decided to seriously consider the guys behind USDT, we are talking about the current value of over $72 billion tokens, for which no one can say with certainty whether they are backed by anything, least of all USD. The fall of that system would be what the Americans call a clusterf*ck, and the definition is certainly not something we want to experience.

Quote from: Rikafip on March 12, 2023, 12:51:57 PM

I haven't reported my earnings via signature campaign yet so I am not exactly sure how it works, but wouldn't you have to file a separate report each week only if you were cashing out every time you get the signature money?

If something hasn't changed, then it's exactly as @Pmalek confirmed. As far as I know, if you are employed, what you get from signature campaigns should be declared as other income and reported every time you receive a payment. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the income tax you pay if you sell crypto, but with the income you get from some extra work. However, it is best to seek a professional opinion.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Lucius on March 12, 2023, 09:42:36 AM

I believe that people would be much more inclined to pay tax on that type of income - but according to my law, I would have to file a report every time I receive a payment, which means every week of the year.

Exactly. They don't make it easier for the payers. Their rigid and ill-conceived rules expect you to pay your tax within a day or two of receiving your signature payment, and then run to your local tax office a few days later, stand in line, and submit the paperwork. I am supposed to skip work every week to to that? Yeah, right.

Quote from: bitbollo on March 12, 2023, 12:26:38 PM

serious question, why focus on fiat stable coins when the real stable coin...is bitcoin!?

Bitcoin is stable only in your dreams. Wink

Rikafip

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Quote from: Lucius on March 12, 2023, 09:42:36 AM

After that whole circus with Terra/Luna, I really thought that people would wise up and move away from stablecoins, but it seems that the exact opposite is happening.

Even if same things happened to Tether (which would have much bigger consequences to the market than fall of UST had), I don't think that situation would change much. If anything, someone would come up with another ingenious way of even less stable "stablecoin".

Quote from: Lucius on March 12, 2023, 09:42:36 AM

I believe that people would be much more inclined to pay tax on that type of income - but according to my law, I would have to file a report every time I receive a payment, which means every week of the year. I don't know if anything has changed since the beginning of the year in this regard, but not only is it a big waste of time, but it can also be a threat to my personal safety, given that people like to talk about things that should be an official secret.

I haven't reported my earnings via signature campaign yet so I am not exactly sure how it works, but wouldn't you have to file a separate report each week only if you were cashing out every time you get the signature money?

bitbollo

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a stable coin has exactly all the negative aspects of fiat coins and cryptocurrencies (centralized, inflatable, lack of privacy, etc etc). bitcoin was created to avoid all these problems.
serious question, why focus on fiat stable coins when the real stable coin...is bitcoin!?

Xal0lex

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There is no 100% right decision here, although USDT almost always performs better than all of the stablecoins. In any case, no matter how reliable this or that stablecoin is, you should always remember about diversification, keep your savings in different stablecoins. This way, you can avoid significant losses related to de-peg. It is simply unreasonable to rely on just one single stablecoin, because not a single stablecoin in the entire history of their existence has given a 100% guarantee, there have always been some small drawdowns.

Lucius

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Quote from: Rikafip on March 12, 2023, 05:00:20 AM

~snip~
First of all, there are no safe stablecoins and sooner newbies realize that, the better. Stablecoins can depeg, they are not even properly collateralized in 1:1 ratio and worst of all, issuers can freeze them even if they are in your own non-custodial wallet so why do you think that newbies should look for safety in those?

It seems to me that someone is playing with words in a game where everyone believes everything, until the moment everything goes downhill. The word "stable" is perhaps one of the biggest hoaxes when it comes to cryptocurrencies, and there's no doubt that it was sold very well by people who literally made their own currencies out of nothing. If you look at the statements of powerful politicians in the US and the EU, to all of them stablecoins are a far greater threat than Bitcoin and all those tens of thousands of altcoins.

After that whole circus with Terra/Luna, I really thought that people would wise up and move away from stablecoins, but it seems that the exact opposite is happening.

Quote from: Pmalek on March 12, 2023, 04:55:06 AM

~snip~
For example, You are wearing a signature under you name. You are providing a service and getting paid for it. That's taxable. I seriously doubt that even 1/50 people have asked their local tax offices how that particular situation works, when do they need to declare that as income, how and when.

I believe that people would be much more inclined to pay tax on that type of income - but according to my law, I would have to file a report every time I receive a payment, which means every week of the year. I don't know if anything has changed since the beginning of the year in this regard, but not only is it a big waste of time, but it can also be a threat to my personal safety, given that people like to talk about things that should be an official secret.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: asawale on March 11, 2023, 11:33:49 PM

Stable coins have been the saviour and one of the banes upon which trust in cryptocurrencies mostly the altcoins rely on over a long period of time.

Wrong, Stable coin is almost the same as the altcoins you trade, which could still depeg at any time, and perhaps if you put full hope in it, you can get disappointed should the project (crypto company) have any arising problems.

Almost every altcoin has USDt trading pairs, and I see that USD, EUR, and YEN are fiat that can stay stable with full trust better than some stable coins because if there is any threat or serious issue in the market that concerns the price of fiat, there are usually news stories to warn people, but most stable coins can just get a threat and decide to block or disable the withdrawal of the intended stable coins. Instead of conversing with any random stable coin, it is better to convert to Fiats, you can convert to fait without withdrawing.

Quote

A stable coin enables crypto investors to convert their coins into dollars without the bothering of withdrawing in FIAT currency form.

You must not convert to a stable coin before fiat; like I said previously, some altcoins have USDt trading pairs, from which, after training your altcoin for USDt, you can withdraw directly.

Quote

This singular act has helped to increase the number of investors into cryptocurrency and also encouraged huge funds to flow into cryptocurrency investments.

Instead, it has cost some investors their funds as well. Are you aware of the fall of Tera Luna? That's a good example of the issues that stable coins can face.

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Now that these major stable coins are losing their pegs to one dollar value, what should is the hope of the newbies in knowing the right stable to convert his funds to in the time price falling in cryptocurrency to stop loss?

Depending on the DEX or CEX the person is dealing with, they can trade to fiat like USDt and avoid any other stable coin.

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Quote from: Chilwell on March 12, 2023, 08:29:22 AM

This sounds so scary, so now someone have to becareful of holding any stable coin again, this fallen of a thing had happened to me during the time of luna, I felt sorry for myself and decided to give up not to buy any coin again. Thanks for sharing this for us.

(Especially) the stable coins that were/are pegged to fiat were not really meant for holding. They were the tool for arbitraging and not much more, because they historically pretty much always had trust (and proper backing) related issues. One big point of crypto should be to trust math, not people (nor businesses); stable coins don't follow that.
So it's not that much about "careful of holding any stable coin again", it's more about being careful about holding stable coins at all.

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 11, 2023, 11:51:20 PM

Stable coins have never been good and have never really helped cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. What they mainly did was to help short term traders get in and out of different altcoins and even between exchanges quickly. Otherwise we always knew that even the biggest stablecoins are too risky to use considering how centralized and mostly shady they are. They can even freeze your coins any time they want: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/updated-psa-most-stablecoins-can-be-frozen-even-in-your-own-wallets-5204055

This sounds so scary, so now someone have to becareful of holding any stable coin again, this fallen of a thing had happened to me during the time of luna, I felt sorry for myself and decided to give up not to buy any coin again. Thanks for sharing this for us.

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Quote from: asawale on March 11, 2023, 11:33:49 PM

Now that these major stable coins are losing their pegs to one dollar value, what should is the hope of the newbies in knowing the right stable to convert his funds to in the time price falling in cryptocurrency to stop loss?

Not losing their peg at all. Well some of other users were panicking and selling their stables now but for me this is just a temporary situation. We all knew that traders need these stable to use on so much buy and sell hence the market will need these volatility.

If they are gonna be scared of stable devaluation then just convert it all on bitcoin a truly decentralized space.

Rikafip

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Quote from: asawale on March 11, 2023, 11:33:49 PM

Now that these major stable coins are losing their pegs to one dollar value, what should is the hope of the newbies in knowing the right stable to convert his funds to in the time price falling in cryptocurrency to stop loss?

First of all, there are no safe stablecoins and sooner newbies realize that, the better. Stablecoins can depeg, they are not even properly collateralized in 1:1 ratio and worst of all, issuers can freeze them even if they are in your own non-custodial wallet so why do you think that newbies should look for safety in those?

Regarding what newbies should do in this situation, an answer is obvious: bitcoin.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on March 12, 2023, 04:25:51 AM

It's not only about avoiding to pay taxes. It's the complicated process, paperwork, and bureaucracy that makes people not want to do it. You are going to make my life difficult because I use bitcoin? You are going to have your bank buddies investigate me or lock my accounts? You are going to do everything possible so I can't buy my BTC, only to put your hand out if I make some money and say, 15%, hand it over?! In that case, grab the trunk-looking organ under my belt and pull it a bit to get your reward you low-life governmental ass juice. Not your personally btw Grin

For example, You are wearing a signature under you name. You are providing a service and getting paid for it. That's taxable. I seriously doubt that even 1/50 people have asked their local tax offices how that particular situation works, when do they need to declare that as income, how and when.

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Quote from: Pmalek on March 12, 2023, 03:18:40 AM

Fiat creates other potential worries. If we are talking about big sums of money, your bank will want to know the source of the funds. Your tax office will want their fair share. Some crypto users might not know how or want to explain how they got into possession of such wealth all of a sudden.

If the user doesn't did any bad thing, I don't see any reason not being honest with the source of the funds and as a citizen we need to pay tax to the country where we live, we have use the facilitation in our country and evading tax in order to maximize your profit isn't a good idea.

I understand in this space privacy is really important, but I'd say maximizing the privacy feature of Bitcoin in order to evading tax is illegal.

Pmalek

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Quote from: asawale on March 11, 2023, 11:33:49 PM

A stable coin enables crypto investors to convert their coins into dollars without the bothering of withdrawing in FIAT currency form.

It gives you the impression you are holding dollars, but you are holding a digital token pegged to the value of dollars. As some examples have shown, that token is only temporarily pegged to the dollar.

Quote from: Jawhead999 on March 12, 2023, 12:48:23 AM

If you want to hold a stable currency but you're worried stablecoin price will depegged from it's collateral, your option is convert it to your fiat.

Fiat creates other potential worries. If we are talking about big sums of money, your bank will want to know the source of the funds. Your tax office will want their fair share. Some crypto users might not know how or want to explain how they got into possession of such wealth all of a sudden.

Jawhead999

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If you want to hold a stable currency but you're worried stablecoin price will depegged from it's collateral, your option is convert it to your fiat. If you want to hold USD, then it's will be time consuming since you need to use a digital wallet or payment option which receive USD.

Quote from: Cuenta Alternativa on March 12, 2023, 12:25:02 AM

I believe that in the future there will be no stablecoins apart from CBDCs or they will be of residual use.

Or the stablecoin will change become CBDC in order to save their project, CBDC should be similar with fiat where there's an institutions will insure your funds, unlike stablecoin.

Cuenta Alternativa

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The best thing for newbies to do is to focus on bitcoin and leave the rest of the alts alone. First study bitcoin to know what it is and make a reasoned decision on whether to buy it.

Specifically on stablecoins, I would add to what the colleague said that they are especially targeted by the authorities, as they are in direct competition with fiat and CBDCs. I believe that in the future there will be no stablecoins apart from CBDCs or they will be of residual use. Seeing what has happened to several stablecoins recently, I don't think it is worth using them to try to avoid volatility. If you buy bitcoin you already know it is volatile, and it is better not to do short term trading, as being a newbie you are likely to lose money.

pooya87

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Stable coins have never been good and have never really helped cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. What they mainly did was to help short term traders get in and out of different altcoins and even between exchanges quickly. Otherwise we always knew that even the biggest stablecoins are too risky to use considering how centralized and mostly shady they are. They can even freeze your coins any time they want: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/updated-psa-most-stablecoins-can-be-frozen-even-in-your-own-wallets-5204055

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Stable coins have been the saviour and one of the banes upon which trust in cryptocurrencies mostly the altcoins rely on over a long period of time. A stable coin enables crypto investors to convert their coins into dollars without the bothering of withdrawing in FIAT currency form. This singular act has helped to increase the number of investors into cryptocurrency and also encouraged huge funds to flow into cryptocurrency investments.

Now that these major stable coins are losing their pegs to one dollar value, what should is the hope of the newbies in knowing the right stable to convert his funds to in the time price falling in cryptocurrency to stop loss?

Topic: DETERMINATION OF A SAFE STABLE COIN: What should newbies do? (Read 237 times)