Did Karpeles and his accomplices steal 850,000 coins?

piramida

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Borsche

Quote from: Rygon on February 28, 2014, 08:21:58 AM

My bet is that the coins where either lost a long time ago or stolen by insiders. Whoever is responsible will probably get away with it though, because they will blame it on "faulty bitcoin code," and the investigators won't know enough to call out the BS.

Don't worry, there will be enough people willing to testify. His fat ass will end up either dead or in prison, no third way for all the lies and, more importantly, for all the damage he's done to this great community with his idiocy. No matter how many great bitcoin companies real professionals build now, everyone would remember one childish idiot with bad php skills who lost 850k coins and then lied and lied and lied, damaging bitcoin even more while trying to save his ass. Sad.

I just wish people who knew what kind of a joke he is would have been more vocal back in 2012. This site was online since 2011, but should have been heavily promoted. http://www.mtgoxsucks.org/

cosmofly

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PrimeDAO - An Adoption Engine for Open Finance

He didn't steal it that is not even a possibility

There are 2 possibilities

He forgot private key for cold storage
Gox was hacked past 8 months and btc stolen due to malleability crap

NChosting

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Quote from: RodeoX on February 28, 2014, 11:29:58 AM

A vote is always a good way to determine the truth. It's how we discovered the world is flat.

This has nothing to the with the world being flat. This is a genuine question about a human being from a human being to human beings.

So its relevant what peoples sixth sense says. I do believe he had something to do with it. And he is guilty until proven innocent.

sgdias

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Somebody said assassination market ?

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

A vote is always a good way to determine the truth. It's how we discovered the world is flat.

yrtrnc

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Quote from: 600watt on February 28, 2014, 10:45:02 AM

Quote from: yrtrnc on February 28, 2014, 10:35:30 AM

Quote from: 600watt on February 28, 2014, 10:32:30 AM

i voted yes, but one thing does not fit:

mk owns tons of btc already. when you own $ 50 -100 million (or more) legally, why would you risk jail for more ?

greed?

$ 100 mio is unimaginable. it´s abstract. greed, i think does not go beyond the abstract. he has family, it makes no sense to risk all that.

maybe his coins were stolen & he just stole some back ...

Only some..

Serge

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"temporary unavailable"

600watt

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Quote from: yrtrnc on February 28, 2014, 10:35:30 AM

Quote from: 600watt on February 28, 2014, 10:32:30 AM

i voted yes, but one thing does not fit:

mk owns tons of btc already. when you own $ 50 -100 million (or more) legally, why would you risk jail for more ?

greed?

$ 100 mio is unimaginable. it´s abstract. greed, i think does not go beyond the abstract. he has family, it makes no sense to risk all that.

maybe his coins were stolen & he just stole some back ...

Bobsurplus

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I think its highly doubtful. Why would he want to take the BTC if he could earn them in a few short years.

yrtrnc

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Quote from: antimattercrusader on February 28, 2014, 10:29:03 AM

You forgot to add "No, I stole all of them" to the poll.

done

yrtrnc

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Quote from: 600watt on February 28, 2014, 10:32:30 AM

i voted yes, but one thing does not fit:

mk owns tons of btc already. when you own $ 50 -100 million (or more) legally, why would you risk jail for more ?

greed?

600watt

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i voted yes, but one thing does not fit:

mk owns tons of btc already. when you own $ 50 -100 million (or more) legally, why would you risk jail for more ?

antimattercrusader

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You forgot to add "No, I stole all of them" to the poll.

Fiyasko

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Okey Dokey Lokey

He's not being specific about HOW the coins were lost, If there is a wallet.dat with a forgotten password, then lets crack it
The guy stole the money

Money Raccoon

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Quote from: WompRat on February 28, 2014, 06:34:06 AM

If not he is not directly involved I just have to say - how can Mark Karpelles remain so calm having lost so much money. What the fuck is in that coffee?

Because he has known of the issue for a very long time now.

SpeculateThis

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Quote from: Rygon on February 28, 2014, 08:21:58 AM

My bet is that the coins where either lost a long time ago or stolen by insiders. Whoever is responsible will probably get away with it though, because they will blame it on "faulty bitcoin code," and the investigators won't know enough to call out the BS. The only real evidence will be the log of all internal transactions, if that even exists. But that could be fudged also. At the very least though, MtGox would be guilty of some kind of commodities trading fraud, or the equivalent term in the Japanese legal system.

+1 I'm willing to bet that however it happened, was over a long period of time, not just "Oh hey did you check that cold storage wallet?

wait what...what do you mean there is nothing in there!? Angry

... but there was 850,000 coins in there last night!!!! "

Rygon

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My bet is that the coins where either lost a long time ago or stolen by insiders. Whoever is responsible will probably get away with it though, because they will blame it on "faulty bitcoin code," and the investigators won't know enough to call out the BS. The only real evidence will be the log of all internal transactions, if that even exists. But that could be fudged also. At the very least though, MtGox would be guilty of some kind of commodities trading fraud, or the equivalent term in the Japanese legal system.

yrtrnc

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Quote from: chessnut on February 28, 2014, 07:01:14 AM

Quote from: yrtrnc on February 28, 2014, 06:39:39 AM

Quote from: chessnut on February 28, 2014, 06:33:22 AM

only one thing is certain - he is very thick.

you cannot own an exchange steal 700k coins and get away with it. I simply don’t buy that theory.

He simply screwed it up. He allowed double spending, he warmed up his cold storage, he took no caution and he had no expertise.

- or maybe the FBI has played a part in it - that I can believe.

Why can he not get away with it? Have you seen his smug face?

FBI? More like NSA or Japanese government!

Ive seen his smug face - but that will not help him against the forces of the US and Japanese govt. if you are involved with the heist of 300mollion dollars and your identity is known, you are done for. besides - he could have got away with 100 million without being noticed. it wasnt him.

No one cares if he stole poor peoples money. If anything governments love this. The less money people have the more they will work like slaves and pay them more taxes. Also, I dont think they would mind the fact that this is bad for bitcoins image. You see governments as angels, they are anything but!

chessnut

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Quote from: yrtrnc on February 28, 2014, 06:39:39 AM

Quote from: chessnut on February 28, 2014, 06:33:22 AM

only one thing is certain - he is very thick.

you cannot own an exchange steal 700k coins and get away with it. I simply don’t buy that theory.

He simply screwed it up. He allowed double spending, he warmed up his cold storage, he took no caution and he had no expertise.

- or maybe the FBI has played a part in it - that I can believe.

Why can he not get away with it? Have you seen his smug face?

FBI? More like NSA or Japanese government!

Ive seen his smug face - but that will not help him against the forces of the US and Japanese govt. if you are involved with the heist of 300mollion dollars and your identity is known, you are done for. besides - he could have got away with 100 million without being noticed. it wasnt him.

Solarstorm75

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Spectacular. This guy get's protection from the court instead of prosecution. Weird!

Who are the insiders which dumped BTC on Gox since end of January 2014?

As stated here and further postings:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5259712
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5270367

All trade records should be saved and the accounts involved backtraced!

Mythul

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 28, 2014, 06:08:16 AM

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:02:28 AM

Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.

Probably this. Then the price exploded and accelerated their demise.

yrtrnc

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Quote from: WompRat on February 28, 2014, 06:34:06 AM

If not he is not directly involved I just have to say - how can Mark Karpelles remain so calm having lost so much money. What the fuck is in that coffee?

Ha ha lol

yrtrnc

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Quote from: chessnut on February 28, 2014, 06:33:22 AM

only one thing is certain - he is very thick.

you cannot own an exchange steal 700k coins and get away with it. I simply don’t buy that theory.

He simply screwed it up. He allowed double spending, he warmed up his cold storage, he took no caution and he had no expertise.

- or maybe the FBI has played a part in it - that I can believe.

Why can he not get away with it? Have you seen his smug face?

FBI? More like NSA or Japanese government!

schizoid

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Another possibility is the coins never existed in the first place. Karpeles could have naked shorted them in 2011 and was never able to cover.

WompRat

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If not he is not directly involved I just have to say - how can Mark Karpelles remain so calm having lost so much money. What the fuck is in that coffee?

chessnut

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only one thing is certain - he is very thick.

you cannot own an exchange steal 700k coins and get away with it. I simply don’t buy that theory.

He simply screwed it up. He allowed double spending, he warmed up his cold storage, he took no caution and he had no expertise.

- or maybe the FBI has played a part in it - that I can believe.

uhoh

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Circle gets the Square

Mark Karpeles can

Still, at least it's all over now. They can file for as much protection as they want but they have no assets! If they owned the office building then at least there would be some carcass to crawl over, but there's nothing. No brand to sell. No system to sell (because it was strung together with chewing gum and PHP). Nothing. I feel sorry for everyone that has lost from this. The 1 mil (and 500k verified) accounts are the only playing card they have.

Richard Branson

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Screw It, Let's Do It

Quote from: yrtrnc on February 28, 2014, 06:22:39 AM

One does not simply "LOSE" 850,000 bitcoins!

It's not that hard.
Just write your code very bad -> rounding errors and with enough trades all your BTC are gone (if withdrawn).

yrtrnc

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And here's the meme

yrtrnc

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Quote from: uhoh on February 28, 2014, 06:19:17 AM

C'mon, stop with the conspiracy theories. He lost the coins because he's an idiot. Plain and simple. Lack of even the most basic accounting by a company that didn't have the talent or expertise to be operating such a large enterprise.

One does not simply "LOSE" 850,000 bitcoins!

T.Stuart

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Quote from: WompRat on February 28, 2014, 06:18:24 AM

So when he said 'more or less', what he actually meant was that he had lost more than 750,000 coins.

Puppet

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I remember reading someone claiming that Mark at one point said something along the lines of there being a big secret that when revealed would have a huge impact on bitcoin (price). I cant recall who said it where, much less find a direct quote, does anyone know what Im referring to?

Ibian

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 28, 2014, 06:16:48 AM

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:12:51 AM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 28, 2014, 06:08:16 AM

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:02:28 AM

Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.

Keeping things running as if nothing happened under that scenario would fall under incomprehensible incompetence. And probably fraud as well.

...on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

That's what I am referring to - that at the time of the theft I'm sure that an insider would not think jail a possibility.

Money is serious business. Far more serious than, say, accidentally running over an old lady. You don't accidentally millions. Not without repercussions.

uhoh

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Circle gets the Square

C'mon, stop with the conspiracy theories. He lost the coins because he's an idiot. Plain and simple. Lack of even the most basic accounting by a company that didn't have the talent or expertise to be operating such a large enterprise.

WompRat

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So when he said 'more or less', what he actually meant was that he had lost more than 750,000 coins.

T.Stuart

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Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:12:51 AM

Quote from: T.Stuart on February 28, 2014, 06:08:16 AM

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:02:28 AM

Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.

Keeping things running as if nothing happened under that scenario would fall under incomprehensible incompetence. And probably fraud as well.

...on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

That's what I am referring to - that at the time of the theft I'm sure that an insider would not think jail a possibility.

Ibian

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Quote from: T.Stuart on February 28, 2014, 06:08:16 AM

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:02:28 AM

Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.

Keeping things running as if nothing happened under that scenario would fall under incomprehensible incompetence. And probably fraud as well.

T.Stuart

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One Token to Move Anything Anywhere

Quote from: Ibian on February 28, 2014, 06:02:28 AM

Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.

T.Stuart

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One Token to Move Anything Anywhere

I think it could be true just based on the following:

If the theory is correct then it is quite possible the coins were already stolen in 2011. This was a time when it may have seemed a remote possibility that Bitcoin would go beyond a few dollars a coin. So insiders thought they would get a few million dollars. It was also a time when the idea of worldwide regulation, real government interest, etc. might also have seemed unlikely. In fact if anything it might have seemed like Bitcoin did not have that much longer to go. So why not steal them? It was the real Wild West, it could easily be blamed on hackers, and it was a relatively small amount of money.

Any insider considering stealing 750k Bitcoins today would have to think a lot harder about it!

Ibian

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Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

yrtrnc

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One of the biggest heists in human history! Do you think Karpeles acted on his temptations to steal 850,000 coins which would seem to be easy to get away with? Search your heart as a human being, put yourself in his shoes. 850,000 coins sitting right infront of you. No one will know if you take them! Do you think he did it? Maybe even pressured into doing it by drug overlords!

http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/28/the-gox-crater-crowd-detectives-reveal-billion-dollar-heist-as-inside-job/

Topic: Did Karpeles and his accomplices steal 850,000 coins? (Read 3938 times)