different address types | Bitcointalksearch.org

dkbit98

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Quote from: joe1234 on June 12, 2024, 09:33:34 AM

An offline device means to me something like a Trezor.

Seed words on Trezor device are offline, but Trezor Suite app is connected to the internet to make transactions, see price changes, and perform firmware and software update download.
If you want to have everything offline than you should considered airgapped devices like Passport, Keystone, SeedSigner, Krux, etc.
Seed words should always be kept offline written on paper or metal plates.

Z-tight

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Quote from: joe1234 on June 12, 2024, 09:33:34 AM

An offline device means to me something like a Trezor..

Trezor is an offline device. Hardware wallets are offline devices, however, you can also set up your wallet in an airgapped device, this will give you the same security as a hardware wallet, if you know what you are doing.

Quote from: joe1234 on June 12, 2024, 09:33:34 AM

How can a transaction be signed on an offline device and why that is needed?

It is needed to sign your tx's offline, because your keys should be permanently offline and never connected to the internet, that way it isn't vulnerable to online attacks. Take note that you can store a small amount of BTC in an online wallet, but the large part of your BTC should be stored offline.

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Quote from: joe1234 on June 12, 2024, 09:33:34 AM

An offline device means to me something like a Trezor..

Most people can not know this including me. I will prefer to go for airgapped hardware wallet instead which can easily be known that it is totally cold storage. Example of cold wallets are Electrum or Sparrow wallet created on an airgapped computer, or airgapped hardware wallet like Foundation Passport, or a paper wallet that you generated on an airgapped device. Not all hardware wallets are airgapped.

Quote from: joe1234 on June 12, 2024, 09:33:34 AM

How can a transaction be signed on an offline device and why that is needed?

Read this https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html as an example. You can import the paper wallet private key or seed phrase into Electrum wallet on an airgapped device. You will import the address or master public key on watch-only wallet which you will use to create PSBT and send it to the airgapped wallet for signing. Then send to the signed transaction to the watch-only wallet or broadcasting tool to broadcast the transaction.

joe1234

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on June 01, 2024, 08:09:05 AM

Take note that any online device is always prone to hacking and it's recommended that the wallet is offline and your private keys never connect to the interent. That's why I recommended to import your private keys on an offline (preferably to be air-gapped) device and sign your transaction there. This doesn't mean you can't use an online device and sweep your private keys.

An offline device means to me something like a Trezor..

How can a transaction be signed on an offline device and why that is needed?

Thank's in advance for additional help!

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: BitMaxz on June 01, 2024, 04:10:05 PM

Yeah, I agree only if the wallet is compromised that is why I don't recommend copying the private key instead I suggest using the camera to scan the QR code is way safer and not as secure as making a raw transaction and signing it from an airgap device that is always better and much secured than doing it on an online device.

The problem is sometimes you can't know whether your wallet has been compromised or not and you will know that when it is too late.
If you have a paper wallet, your private key should never touch the internet and this means that it should be kept offline when being generated and also when being used for making a transaction. Otherwise, it's not a paper wallet at all.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on June 01, 2024, 03:56:30 PM

Your broadcast the transaction once you sweep your private key, but as you know even if the fee is high enough, the transaction takes some time to be confirmed.
If the wallet is compromised, the hacker would probably have enough time to broadcast a new transaction replacing yours.

Yeah, I agree only if the wallet is compromised that is why I don't recommend copying the private key instead I suggest using the camera to scan the QR code is way safer and not as secure as making a raw transaction and signing it from an airgap device that is always better and much secured than doing it on an online device.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: BitMaxz on June 01, 2024, 03:38:19 PM

I don't think there is a problem with sweeping the private key to an online device since you are transferring the funds right away from your old wallet to a new wallet.

Your broadcast the transaction once you sweep your private key, but as you know even if the fee is high enough, the transaction takes some time to be confirmed.
If the wallet is compromised, the hacker would probably have enough time to broadcast a new transaction replacing yours.

BitMaxz

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I don't think there is a problem with sweeping the private key to an online device since you are transferring the funds right away from your old wallet to a new wallet.
Suppose you have a watch-only from your new wallet generated from an airgap/offline/tails wallet. In that case, you can sweep your old wallet to a new one (watch-only) but copying and pasting private key is not safe so instead of doing that use your camera to scan a QR code that's safe for sweeping.

If you don't have a camera or a private key in QR code then you don't have a choice but to follow the above suggestion if you want a secured way.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: joe1234 on June 01, 2024, 07:10:49 AM

My paper wallet was made by Bitcoin ATM machine. In general, are you concerned that I could loose my funds during sweeping the paper wallet into Electrum (preinstalled on Tails) or are you more concerned about privacy?

Your security, not your privacy.

Take note that any online device is always prone to hacking and it's recommended that the wallet is offline and your private keys never connect to the interent. That's why I recommended to import your private keys on an offline (preferably to be air-gapped) device and sign your transaction there. This doesn't mean you can't use an online device and sweep your private keys.

joe1234

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on May 30, 2024, 09:42:08 AM

Quote from: joe1234 on May 30, 2024, 09:34:03 AM

Why sweeping the private key of a paper wallet isn't a good idea?

A paper wallet should be always offline. Otherwise, you would defeat the purpose of a paper wallet.
Since you can only sweep your private key into an online wallet and there is no way to sweep a private key into an offline wallet, it's better to import your private key into an airgapped device, sign the transaction offline and don't use the sweep feature.

This is assuming you have created your paper wallet on an airgapped device in the correct way. If you didn't do so, you have already defeated the purpose of a paper wallet and your so-called paper wallet isn't really a paper wallet.

My paper wallet was made by Bitcoin ATM machine. In general, are you concerned that I could loose my funds during sweeping the paper wallet into Electrum (preinstalled on Tails) or are you more concerned about privacy?

Thank you!

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 30, 2024, 09:34:03 AM

Why sweeping the private key of a paper wallet isn't a good idea?

A paper wallet should be always offline. Otherwise, you would defeat the purpose of a paper wallet.
Since you can only sweep your private key into an online wallet and there is no way to sweep a private key into an offline wallet, it's better to import your private key into an airgapped device, sign the transaction offline and don't use the sweep feature.

This is assuming you have created your paper wallet on an airgapped device in the correct way. If you didn't do so, you have already defeated the purpose of a paper wallet and your so-called paper wallet isn't really a paper wallet.

joe1234

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on May 24, 2024, 06:04:07 PM

Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

I intend to sweep funds from a paper-wallet

It's not a good idea to sweep the private key of your paper wallet. Instead, you should import your private key on an offline device (preferably to be airgapped) and then send the fund to any address you want.
Since you can't sweep your private key if the wallet is offline and your wallet has to be online, that would defeat the purpose a paper wallet.

Why sweeping the private key of a paper wallet isn't a good idea?

dkbit98

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

This depends more on how much fees you pay for that transaction and state of mempool.
That could be tricky to do sometimes when mempool is full, transaction confirmation on bitcoin blockchain can take longer than 5-10 minutes.
In that case you can use some alternative options like Lightning network or L-BTC on Liquid network (you need different wallet for that).
Generally speaking most altcoins have faster confirmation times than on-chain Bitcoin, but monero is probably best of them all, especially for donations and privacy.

Pmalek

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

2.
Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

The type of address you use won't affect how quickly your transaction will confirm. There is no slower and faster address format. The difference between them is how much you are going to pay to get your transaction confirmed, and that's where segwit has an advantage over legacy or nested segwit addresses.

Regardless of your choice, there are no guarantees that your transaction will confirm in 5-10 minutes. Even if you overpay 100 times, it could still take 30 or 40 minutes for the next block to be found. You can't influence block generation no matter how much you pay. To demonstrate how Bitcoin works, that quick confirmation isn't that important, unless you are also planning to send those coins a second time as part of your test. Showing the balance change in the destination wallet should be enough, and that should happen in seconds with a normally connected wallet.

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

I intend to sweep funds from a paper-wallet and other funds from an old BRD-wallet (12 words known) into Electrum (preinstalled on Tails).

You can sweep your paper wallet private keys but for your BRD wallet you need to either open it and send the coin to your Electrum wallet or import its seed into Electrum.

Quote

I don't know which address-type to use ?

Send to the first one starting with bc1q (native segwit) since it's the most common format and it's supported by almost all wallets.

Quote

Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes.

As other members suggested, check mempool.space to have an idea on what fee rate to set for high priority confirmation (Electrum also has a decent fee estimator) but your transaction may take more than 10 min to get confirmed.
If you are doing this for testing purposes or just to explain to your audience how bitcoin works, you may consider using the test network.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

I intend to sweep funds from a paper-wallet

It's not a good idea to sweep the private key of your paper wallet. Instead, you should import your private key on an offline device (preferably to be airgapped) and then send the fund to any address you want.
Since you can't sweep your private key if the wallet is offline and your wallet has to be online, that would defeat the purpose a paper wallet.

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A paper wallet is more of an offline backup method therefore you'll still need to access the wallet to be able to make use of the funds. Just like Zaguru12 mentioned, all you have to do is make use of a safe wallet software like Electrum to access the wallet by importing the seed then you can sweep the funds if you wish to.

Quote

Do I have to care something about during start/setup of Electrum (Tails) if I inted to make a donation to https://grapheneos.org/donate
(there are different addresses listed/suggested at https://grapheneos.org/donate and I don't know which address-type to use) ?

Bitcoins can be sent either ways and via any address. The different addresses, which are the SEGWIT compatible and SEGWIT native are upgrades to the legacy address format it order to save more fees and reduce conjestions on the block chain. This was carried out I think around periods 2017 and 2018 when Bitcoin adoption increased significantly resulting to the earliest form of network congestions.

Quote

Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

Fees are measured by how much space your transaction occupies on the block chain. Also, the larger the fees you make use of , the higher the chances of getting your transaction added to the next block sooner.

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

Hello

I intend to sweep funds from a paper-wallet and other funds from an old BRD-wallet (12 words known) into Electrum (preinstalled on Tails).

Nothing to worry about, you simply just import the wallet seed phrase into an electrum wallet and choose the Bip39 option. BRD wallet supports native and nested SegWit address so when choosing the script type make sure you know the address script type to use. Here is a thread by Fillippone to guide you

For security purposes you can as well create a new electrum wallet and seed funds from there to there.

Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

1.
Do I have to care something about during start/setup of Electrum (Tails) if I inted to make a donation to https://grapheneos.org/donate
(there are different addresses listed/suggested at https://grapheneos.org/donate and I don't know which address-type to use) ?

You can send bitcoin to any type of its address formats from any type of format. It’s not necessary they must be in same script format. So pick any of the first two from the site.

Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

2.
Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

The problem with bitcoin transaction is you can’t set a time limit for it. The default time for a new block to mine is 10 minute if you pick the high priority fees but still this time varies as it can be way less than 10 minutes or higher than it.

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Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

1.
Do I have to care something about during start/setup of Electrum (Tails) if I inted to make a donation to https://grapheneos.org/donate
(there are different addresses listed/suggested at https://grapheneos.org/donate and I don't know which address-type to use) ?

You can use the one that starts from bc1q (segwit version 0) or bc1p (segwit version 1 also know as pay-to-taproot-address) to donate bitcoin.

Quote from: joe1234 on May 24, 2024, 08:47:35 AM

2.
Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

You can use any if the two but make sure you use fee rate of high priority. You can check the mempool to know the fee rate that you should use.

This mempool site is good for beginners: https://mempool.space/

joe1234

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Hello

I intend to sweep funds from a paper-wallet and other funds from an old BRD-wallet (12 words known) into Electrum (preinstalled on Tails).

1.
Do I have to care something about during start/setup of Electrum (Tails) if I inted to make a donation to https://grapheneos.org/donate
(there are different addresses listed/suggested at https://grapheneos.org/donate and I don't know which address-type to use) ?

2.
Sometimes in the future I will be required to show simple Bitcoin tasks to an audience. That means a transaction (of about 5 USD) to a
person of the audience should be confirmed withhin about 5-10 minutes. Should i use Bech32m (Taproot) addresses for such a demo?

Thank's in advance!

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