different instances of Electrum on Tails (without persistence)

Husires

legendary

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You can it using the same software on Tails and add a number of wallets with each transaction broadcast from each address using coin control feature, and add several wallets as long as you do not broadcast them together.
Signing the message in this way will enhance privacy as long as you are offline.

The problem lies in broadcasting the transaction. If you broadcast all of them using the same server, the same IP, and the same device, the transactions may be linked.

Do not forget that many companies that analyze the blockchain link identity with some indirect methods, such as:

Searching in Blockchain Explorer: Searching in Navigators might be a bad option.
Connecting inputs and outputs: It doesn't matter how the transaction is broadcast as much as how you got the money to whomever you want to send it to, in one blister or another we will reach an address whose identity has been verified.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18771

Quote from: ?? on ??

Does tails have option to change circuit (outside Tor Browser)? The documentation doesn't mention anything about it.

Not as far as I am aware. You simply have to restart Tails, which will give you a whole new circuit each time.

It does mention this briefly at the following links:

Quote from: https://tails.boum.org/doc/anonymous_internet/Tor_Browser/index.en.html#new-identity

This feature is not enough to strongly separate contextual identities as the Tor circuits used ouside of Tor Browser are not changed.

Restart Tails instead.

Quote from: https://tails.boum.org/doc/about/warnings/identity/index.en.html#contextual

To prevent an adversary from linking your activities together while using Tails, restart Tails between different activities. For example, restart Tails between checking your work email and your whistleblowing email.

So yeah, OP should restart Tails in between each seed phrase he is restoring. But as pointed out above, while this may be very private it isn't very secure since he is restoring seed phrases to an internet enabled device.

Abdussamad

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Quote from: joe1234 on September 14, 2021, 09:22:28 AM

Hello forum,

I heard that spending different outputs together should be avoided, if anonymity is an issue and using entirey different wallets
is a way to do that :-)

Would it be ok boot Tails and to start Electrum (without persistence), "restore" funds by entering the 12 word seed, make transactions, than
reboot Tails restore my other 12 word seed for my second "bitcoin profile" and so long?
Of course this is not very comfortable, but for for my needs probaby ok:)

Thank's a lot!

Joe

You don't have to reboot to restore a different wallet from seed. You can do so via file > new/restore.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 14, 2021, 05:28:28 PM

Running full node will guarantee privacy.

Running a full node guarantees anonymity.

Let me repeat. When you're broadcasting transactions from your node, you want from people to know you're transacting, you just don't want them to know it's you doing it. If I needed to connect to an Electrum server (without Tor), I'd have no anonymity, because my identity could have been found.

Another example: If you went to buy a StarBucks coffee with Bitcoin, it wouldn't matter if you used your own node to broadcast the transaction. The person who was given the invoice would now know who you are and what are your addresses.

If you then signed several outputs, the change from StarBucks included, it'd be a matter of privacy. The shopkeeper could follow up your transactions as they're linked with each other.

That's why a mixer says that it improves your privacy and not your anonymity.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 15, 2021, 03:06:25 AM

I think the distinction here being privacy and anonymity is largely semantic rather than practical.

It's truly semantic, but also practical. You can't convince me that Bitcoin is an anonymous currency, but you can use techniques that will improve your privacy.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18771

I think the distinction here between privacy and anonymity is largely semantic rather than practical. If I have an address which is publicly linked to my real life identity, such as through a Twitter profile or being shared on social media, and I have another address in the same wallet which I am using to do something I would rather not be linked to my real identity, such as donating to a specific political group or charity, then those addresses can absolutely be linked by any Electrum server I connect to since the same wallet is querying them both at the same time. It doesn't matter if I do so through Tor or not, since the IP address here isn't needed to link the second address to my real identity. I have neither privacy nor anonymity. (And yes, I appreciate it could be a case of a dummy watch only wallet with addresses from different people designed solely to confuse any spying Electrum servers, but hardly anyone does things like that.)

If you want to keep two addresses separated on Electrum while not using your own full node, then they should be in different wallets connected to different servers via different Tor circuits.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 14, 2021, 02:23:44 PM

Even if you use coin control to make sure your addresses are never linked on the blockchain, any Electrum server you connect to will be able to link all your addresses together, and potentially also link them all back to your IP address if you are not using Tor. The only way it would be safe to do this is if your Electrum client is only ever pointed at your own full node.

Running full node will guarantee privacy. I really get the point of how using just a single wallet can compromise privacy through the electrum server. But using Tor is very important why connecting to wallet because the use of IP address directly is the worst case of all that can be used in many ways to link users directly to its identity. While many wallets (Electrum) can be used in case of not able to run full node which can still help to an extent for privacy purpose.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 14, 2021, 03:20:04 PM

The fact that the server would have a connection between these addresses is a matter of privacy, not anonymity. If you could hide your IP, such as by connecting to an Electrum server via Tor, you could remain anonymous between this particular communication channel. What you should do for the sake of your privacy is another story.

If I get you correctly, so far you still use Tor to block servers to breach your addresses to your identity, electrum can still maintain anonymity if used with Tor, while going extra mile to have your own node will maintain privacy.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 14, 2021, 02:23:44 PM

Simply by having all your addresses in the same Electrum wallet means that your Electrum client will query the same server for the balance of all your addresses at the same time.

It's not this that makes it vulnerable to self-exposal. It's the fact that your IP will be connected with these addresses at the time you'll query the balances. The Electrum server could theoretically be a spy one, ran from surveillance agents which will identify you.

The fact that the server would have a connection between these addresses is a matter of privacy, not anonymity. If you could hide your IP, such as by connecting to an Electrum server via Tor, you could remain anonymous between this particular communication channel. What you should do for the sake of your privacy is another story.

To clarify the difference, I'm quoting part of my old post;

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 19, 2021, 03:44:48 AM

So, privacy is a concept that describes activities that you want to keep them for yourself, privately. On the other hand, anonymity is when you want from people to know what you're doin', you just don't want them to know that it's you doin' it.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Merit: 18771

Quote from: Charles-Tim on September 14, 2021, 09:33:37 AM

If you are not comfortable with the output addresses and you do not want the transaction to be linked, you can just make use of a single electrum wallet, make use of coin control and address freeze to be able to control the addresses on your wallet that you are actually sending funds, and you can send Bitcoin to each address one after the other.

If you are looking for anonymity as OP mentioned, then this is not a good idea at all. Simply by having all your addresses in the same Electrum wallet means that your Electrum client will query the same server for the balance of all your addresses at the same time. Even if you use coin control to make sure your addresses are never linked on the blockchain, any Electrum server you connect to will be able to link all your addresses together, and potentially also link them all back to your IP address if you are not using Tor. The only way it would be safe to do this is if your Electrum client is only ever pointed at your own full node.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: joe1234 on September 14, 2021, 09:22:28 AM

I heard that spending different outputs together should be avoided, if ~~anonymity~~ is an issue and using entirey different wallets
is a way to do that :-)

Privacy should be the right word because the blockchain is an open ledger that is available and transparent to the public.

If you are not comfortable with the output addresses and you do not want the transaction to be linked, you can just make use of a single electrum wallet, make use of coin control and address freeze to be able to control the addresses on your wallet that you are actually sending funds, and you can send Bitcoin to each address one after the other. You can also open 2 or more wallets on Electrum.

People need to be very careful of transaction input and output, especially the input which can be used to send dust amount of Bitcoin to someone's address in order to monitor the address.

ranochigo

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Most wallets should prioritize your inputs such that they attempt to segregate any linkage altogether. Using different wallets can help, but it isn't necessary as long as you practice coin control.

It will work. Or else, you can also use both within the same instance, and changing your Tor circuit everytime you change your wallet. I would advice you to stay away from Electrum if you want any privacy though.

NeuroticFish

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It will do the trick, but from what you are saying, also Tails with persistence and 2 different wallet files (and you load up one or another as you wish) should do the same job, easier.

Another thing that came into my mind is that if you think that this is cold storage, you're wrong -- you need 2 watch only wallets on a system that goes online and keep the Tails always offline.

joe1234

member

Activity: 82

Merit: 33

Hello forum,

I heard that spending different outputs together should be avoided, if anonymity is an issue and using entirey different wallets
is a way to do that :-)

Would it be ok boot Tails and to start Electrum (without persistence), "restore" funds by entering the 12 word seed, make transactions, than
reboot Tails restore my other 12 word seed for my second "bitcoin profile" and so long?
Of course this is not very comfortable, but for for my needs probaby ok:)

Thank's a lot!

Joe

Topic: different instances of Electrum on Tails (without persistence) (Read 153 times)