Topic: DigiPiglets.com - Bitcoin piggy bank - Gift idea for beginners and enthusiasts! (Read 1450 times)

Hey guys! The DigiPiglet Piggy Bank project is halted due to security concerns regarding the QR codes. I wanted to create an easy and safe alternative to hardware wallets and exchanges (with ledger being hacked just recently, I think the idea is not far fetched). However, as there are so many concerns with the creation of paper wallets, the printing process, the danger of compromised computer equipment involved in the process, and other issues, I've decided to put this project on hold. I will be on the lookout for scalable ways to create a secure paper wallet/physical BTC, so that it becomes much easier to give away a couple bucks in crypto. If I find a way, I will start a new project and create something more "covert".

As for the DigiPiglets, I am thinking about something new, so stay tuned

If anyone wants to contact me, feel free to connect on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/digipiglets/) or Twitter (https://twitter.com/DigiPiglets)

There we go. The pig and i went to the local country park for a stroll. We saw the castle, the deer, the stream and lots of wildlife. Little piggy was most intrigued by these large oinking creatures we met along the way....

Pictures taken at Dean Castle Country Park, Scotland



If anyone else in the UK wants to recieve the piglet, publicly mention in here then we can sort out addresses via PM.

Will add a btc donation later, cheers 👍

There we go. The pig and i went to the local country park for a stroll. We saw the castle, the deer, the stream and lots of wildlife. Little piggy was most intrigued by these large oinking creatures we met along the way....

Pictures taken at Dean Castle Country Park, Scotland



If anyone else in the UK wants to recieve the piglet, publicly mention in here then we can sort out addresses via PM.

Will add a btc donation later, cheers 👍

Hi Piglet-ers,

I'm just checking in with a pretty much never used account... I'm bengy from Steemit (I guess the username gives it away...). Anyway, as I had mentioned on Daan's post on STEEM... I am more than happy to be part of this trust chain. My problem was that I don't really know anyone in real-life that I might be able to pass it on to. Anyway, nice to drop in here!

Bengy (aka John).

PS: I'm in Europe if you are grouping people together!

Perhaps I missed it (didn't read every post) but do the unfunded versions come as DIY?

Perhaps I missed it (didn't read every post) but do the unfunded versions come as DIY?

it might be a good idea to regional group the "journeys", to avoid DigiPiglets going back and forth overseas (between continents). For example, some journeys within Europe first, then some journeys within US, Asia etc...

that will reduce total shipping fees, the possibility to get lost in transit & travelling time between journeys (i.e. the whole project will move faster)

just my 2 satoshi's 

I think tomorrow I'm just going to throw all your usernames into a random number generator and decide like that

I am definitely interested if we can get a big enough chain going.  It would be helpful to find someone that has a lot of friends that are involved in Crypto.  I don't have a ton of those so the people I could send it along to are pretty limited.  I am excited about this though and I hope we can get it moving.

we can gather a participation list here (with trustworthy members that would like to participate), and then start shipping to each other.  

I currently have 3 people who are interested in receiving the DigiPiglet to pass it on:

Mbitr (Bitcointalk): https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/mbitr-1781771
@bozz who replied to my Steemit post: https://steemit.com/blog/@daan/the-digipiglet-journey-creating-a-physical-bitcoin-trust-chain-for-venezuela#@bozz/pxmhhh
minerjones (Bitcointalk): https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/minerjones-346731

Really nice to see so much interest, I'll definitely pick someone tomorrow and then send the DigiPiglet by mail on Thursday.
I don't mind shipping to the US or anywhere in Europe, Asia should be fine too I think.

This is actually what makes it more unique indeed, I vote for adding something like this!

What alternative is best known for bitcoin on paper?
if it  https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/ is not 100% safe? 

    This is what I would recommend....

    a) Sell the item with holo detached and allow the user to print their own public and private keys at home and then they can attach on their own.
        We have coin makers here that did that when they sodl their coins.

    b) The user sends you a public key only they have generated on their own or copied thru their wallet such as Mycelium, Coinomi or Trezor for example. You print it and and attach to the animal with holo over it. This way you never get to see the private keys.

    c) You create a public key and private key and do as you were planning to do.
 
    I am all for A and B, but not for C. I can see that for the person that is not familiar with BTC, A and B might be a challenge. In the past I used https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/ but would not recommend as I heard the original owner Canton is no longer in charge.

   Also you may give the purchaser A choice to choose from a, b or c.

    Again these are my suggestions and my point of view on what I would do.

    Please read up here on a thread I created and you will understand what most of us have experienced or have heard about. Then you will know where we bring our fears to the table. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-breached-or-scam-coin-makers-list-3315347

   I will say again, those who have own the keys own the coin.

    Goodluck mate and wish you the best.

You could (just an idea) label the first x orders (let's say first 20-30)  as "founders edition" and individually number them as xx/30. This might increase your pre-orders, and help you with collecting funding for the project (due to the possible scarcity of those limited editions individually numbered founders editions, in the secondary market). just my 2 cents...

We started taking pre-orders to test demand. I'll accept cancellations no questions asked. We're still working on the label design and the adhesive (the supplier had the same concern as you), which is why there are still some sample/rendered pictures. It will all come together as time progresses, working on it

Appreciate you being open and receptive to ideas and information as a new maker.
This definitely helps your credibility.

   This is what I would recommend....

    a) Sell the item with holo detached and allow the user to print their own public and private keys at home and then they can attach on their own.
        We have coin makers here that did that when they sodl their coins.

    b) The user sends you a public key only they have generated on their own or copied thru their wallet such as Mycelium, Coinomi or Trezor for example. You print it and and attach to the animal with holo over it. This way you never get to see the private keys.

    c) You create a public key and private key and do as you were planning to do.
 
    I am all for A and B, but not for C. I can see that for the person that is not familiar with BTC, A and B might be a challenge. In the past I used https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/ but would not recommend as I heard the original owner Canton is no longer in charge.

   Also you may give the purchaser A choice to choose from a, b or c.

    Again these are my suggestions and my point of view on what I would do.

    Please read up here on a thread I created and you will understand what most of us have experienced or have heard about. Then you will know where we bring our fears to the table. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-breached-or-scam-coin-makers-list-3315347

   I will say again, those who have own the keys own the coin.

    Goodluck mate and wish you the best.

I like the idea in spirit, problem is the company won't print label by label. Collecting them and then ordering in bulk would mean you'd wait longer for your DigiPiglet, which would be a bad experience if the price moves significantly. Also, the whole point is to give the customer all the tools he needs, it's geared towards those who are not capable of creating the keys themselves.

But if we created a program/bot that generates the keys, sends a printing job to a printer and then deletes it's memory, we cut out one weak spot. If the printed sheet comes out covered, the assembly happens also without the person seeing the label. That would give as an extra security layer, right?

This board will be your litmus test so to speak.

We have seen many scammers and ill attempted ideas come and go.

  So listen to the vets here as they will point you in the right direction.

   Imo...I am still to the idea the buyer provide you with the public keys...leaving you with no liability of any theft.

   Those who own the keys...own the [Suspicious link removed]dluck

They dont outsource printing for their private keys.  Holograms yes, private key printing no.  Huge difference.  I'm not digging on you, again I like the idea behind it.

If you are accepting payment for these already how come we have not seen anything besides a single pig prototype? All I see are various rendered pictures and links to Casascius and Denarium promotional pictures.

I ask this because we know that those holograms work great on metals, but your piggybank does not seem to be made from a metal. I think you need to stress test the hell out of the security of these. What if you can use a heatgun and make the plastic of the piggybank heat up enough that the hologram just falls off? What if you can slice the piggybank a mere fraction deeper than the hologram and be able to make out the QR code/private key underneath? What if the plastic causes a reaction with the printer paper and it becomes unreadable after a year?

You've come to a forum where many members have coins worth $1000, $10,000, even $100,000 worth of bitcoin. Your idea isn't a bad one, but you need to have every single checkmark checked on your sheet before you can even throw yourself into the mix, especially here.

You may say well it is only $10 worth of bitcoin.. but no, bitcoin itself was once worth $10 each and look at it now. There is potential here but you have more work to do.

The idea is a good one.
Getting people to squirrel away a few bucks worth of BTC each week in a piggy bank format is cool.

Currently, the weak link is your execution. Get that right and I suspect you will have a vibrant market.
Embrace the security issues and explore how you can use these comments and ideas as source material to educate future piggy customers. This btw is key. As a provider it is your responsibility to educate your customers. Get it right and they'll be back for your next offering ....

There's a really cool opportunity here, don't blow it with cheap short cuts or lazy thinking

The audience may be critical, but they do love a good idea well executed and will pay for that too

Viz

Totally forgot about this method, thanks for pointing it out.


Would you consider the BIP38 encryption a proper measure in securing the keys?

I'd love to find the most secure method, while keeping it as simple as possible. I definitely appreciate your concerns!

We'll also use the opportunity and include a booklet or flyer with security instructions and information. People should be made aware of how much risk is associated with each method, so that they can allocate their funds accordingly.


I get your concerns, but does that mean you don't trust Casascius, Denarium etc. either?

What about BIP38 ?

And just in case someone missed it: we do sell them unfunded as well

Check out BIP38

Viz

Though you are correct in theory, in practice you are exposing your company's name/reputation to unnecessary risk as opposed to internally generating these keys. It sure would be frustrating to have a theft happen due to a security flaw at the printing company - a variable that could have been well within your control.

Please dont take this as a flame, I'd like to see this product succeed and am offering a critique based on a flawed methodology that supposedly brought theft onto a now defunct coinmaker (Alitin).

I am sorry.  This is a cool little idea and great to give your little ones but I cant support this.  You are pushing accountability to someone else if something goes wrong.  While 10 doesn't seem like a large amount, what if you sold a 1,000 of these and a new hire at this company has copies of the keys.  Access now to $10,000.  I'm offering advise,dont outsource your private key printing.  Good luck with your project, it stands a good idea, just not the execution side.

Our labels will look something like the labels on Denarium coins:

Front: https://denarium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Wallet_red2-1.jpg

Inside: https://denarium.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/denarium_build.jpg

The front label displays the amount, the private key is concealed till you peal the sticker off.

We could create simple labels that only display the public key without the inside, but if you wanted to be anonymous, you wouldn't want me to have the public key either. That information can still be used to your disadvantage. Moreover, if you make people provide their public keys, you'll lose everybody who doesn't know how to do that, which is who we are trying to convince to try out this new type of piggy bank + money system.

I guess the best way is to just order the DigiPiglet without any crypto, throw away the label and create your own if you want to be entirely secure. I guarantee you though, average Joe doesn't care about security, he wants easy! Grandma does not understand what private keys are, and John Doe does not have the time to "deal with all that computer stuff". This project is designed to make it easy as can be, so that all those people would buy DigiPiglets for their loved ones or themselves. Also don't forget, that Casascius coins have been sold that way for years, Denarium coins are still being sold. It works!


Even if I made these labels myself, I would end up seeing your private keys. This applies to any project, I chose this method deliberately because there have been less reports about stolen physical Bitcoin, or compromised keys, than hacked exchanges, security issues with hardware wallets and all those things. If you want the masses to adopt Bitcoin, you have to create a method that they can use. Once users have to "generate" anything, it becomes a niche thing. Don't forget, this is supposed to be a piggy bank containing 10€, not your main wealth account.

Though you are correct in theory, in practice you are exposing your company's name/reputation to unnecessary risk as opposed to internally generating these keys. It sure would be frustrating to have a theft happen due to a security flaw at the printing company - a variable that could have been well within your control.

Please dont take this as a flame, I'd like to see this product succeed and am offering a critique based on a flawed methodology that supposedly brought theft onto a now defunct coinmaker (Alitin).

Even if I made these labels myself, I would end up seeing your private keys. This applies to any project, I chose this method deliberately because there have been less reports about stolen physical Bitcoin, or compromised keys, than hacked exchanges, security issues with hardware wallets and all those things. If you want the masses to adopt Bitcoin, you have to create a method that they can use. Once users have to "generate" anything, it becomes a niche thing. Don't forget, this is supposed to be a piggy bank containing 10€, not your main wealth account.

 I am assuming when you say security labels it is the hologram you are referring to. Correct?

  Some food for though for you......

  As for the private and public key issue, which is a big deal for all of us....Why not have the purchaser submit their public key?

   This way you are never held liable for any crypto funded into the key under the hologram.


In other words, they create their own public and private key and just submit the public key to you?

 Or they can send you their hardware(trezor) or software (Mycelium) wallet public key if they do not want to bother in making a private and public key.

You said that you send the PRIVATE keys to a printing company.  I'm sorry but if that's the case your OPSEC needs to be revisited.  If I misunderstood than all good.

If you don't trust us you can always order without crypto, throw away the label and create your own. The company is not just "a printing company". They're an experienced manufacturer of security labels for various purposes, with decades of experience. Both the company and my team have a perpetuating interest in making this work. Either way, you can't produce a product like this without putting some trust in someone, no way around there.


Thank you! Will look into it, if we can make it happen, we will. It got me thinking about some special features as well. Maybe we'll ship out a few piglets with some special features or anomalies

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT GUYS, ONLY A FEW LUCKY10 COUPONS LEFT. EARLYBIRD FOR 20%!

Let me know what other ideas you guys might have. We'll try to make this to be something special.

If you don't trust us you can always order without crypto, throw away the label and create your own. The company is not just "a printing company". They're an experienced manufacturer of security labels for various purposes, with decades of experience. Both the company and my team have a perpetuating interest in making this work. Either way, you can't produce a product like this without putting some trust in someone, no way around there.

Am I reading this right you are providing the private keys to a printing company?  Please tell me that is not the case.  

Glad you found more traction in the collectibles section, OP! I knew you would, and great to see krogoth will add you to his impressively growing list of Bitcoin-related collectibles. I still haven't really even gone through the entire list meself but I've already become a sort of mini hoarder when it comes to collectibles, and need to wait til I get a permanent house before resuming the habit heh.

Good luck, as I said, add the engrave option and I'm definitely going to get 1 for a kid. Piggy banks are good mmkay?

Hell yeah! Thanks for the support

You can use "earlybird" for a 20% discount on all items.


That's correct.


We will create the public and private keys, the company will print the labels and send them to us. The company has an interest in maintaining it's reputation, so you can be sure that your private keys won't be copied by them. They've been selling those labels for quite a few years now.

We do sell unloaded Piglets as well, especially for our US customers. Just use "nocrypto" at checkout if you order one of the animals, or "nocryptobundle" if you're ordering the bundle.

Glad to hear that!

Please post your items in this thread of crypto collectables. You will be added on the link page as well. Goodluck

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/reference-unique-rare-and-all-crypto-collectable-posting-thread-with-links-5107629

No Cow?

We do sell unloaded Piglets as well, especially for our US customers. Just use "nocrypto" at checkout if you order one of the animals, or "nocryptobundle" if you're ordering the bundle.

Thanks for the code, I've ordered one for the hell of it.

Wish there was a discount on the all 3 package would have bought that.

It's a novelty really, not anything amazing, it's a QR code stuck onto a plastic animal but none the less it's a fun way to get kids saving in BTC.

Once it's arrived I'll leave feedback on here accordingly, I'd be grateful if you could do the same!

I presume he meant the same holo making company Casascius used in the past.

May I ask how and who is in charge of creating the public and private keys?

Edit: Do you sell any unloaded?

What do you mean the same company that casascius is using