Topic: Discussion about Tactics used on BCT (Read 3290 times)

I hope maybe some of this may have helped you with your gems project and some insight as to how to navigate the Bitcointalk minefield. I think it was a good idea to hold off on the project until you could gather more information and rework the model, listen to peoples opinions and take on their ideas, there are many companies that pay people to find flaws. I was more using PayCon as an example but to extend on that a little more, it is also about the amount of costs in which the currency is used and sold to pay for infrastructure and it's marketcap, a high marketcap is not necessarily a good thing if it's concentrated among a small group of people. I think you may be able to go with the PayCoin model with separate inflation rates depending on wallets but that tends to be a risk in that it centralizes and causes drama/jealousy and when it's centralized and people need to give you their money in order for you to Stake for them to receive the highest payout, you are being classed as a security and that is a security risk.

For me I do not have that issue with PayCon because someone else made it, I've only made changes and everyone unanimously accepted those changes and bought my own Coins and Staked them like everyone else. If I would have received a benefit from increasing the inflation from 50% per year to 1000% per year then that would have also been offset by donating all my Coins and then buying back what I now own (about 2.6% as you can see on the richlist). Just don't put yourself in the situation where you can possibly see some kind of legal action for the things you do, and be as transparent as you can.

That is the best explanation of Paycoin, sorry I meant Paycon--shit i don't know what i meant - or even read--

Who's been trolling me? I don't think anyone has ever trolled me? I'm just like really really ridiculously good at handling drama because I played online games with forums for years when I was younger and have worked in a lot of restaurants where people are constantly trying to grill you. Throw in a dash of good looks, some travelling and a sense of humour and your pretty much untrollable.

There are two general rules to forums that will help anyone survive, never lash out or attack people no matter what they say because arguing is pointless on the internet, wastes time and the best defense to people trolling you or making you look like a fool is to go along with it and make yourself look like even more of a fool than they can.

Some people think it's funny to make a bobble head of you? I would think it would be flattering, probably use it for advertising. Let's say you would take every meme picture people made of you and would distribute them yourself to advertise the product you are doing, free marketing! As long as you aren't going out of your way to screw people it doesn't really matter what people say.

Edit: PayCon is actually genius btw, because it has the inflation model that PayCoin would have needed to be successful in such that you have even higher inflation but you cannot buy it without knowing that it was built on opensource code without any promises. If you sell you cannot buy it back without paying more, if you own it and are Staking you may not even receive the highest rewards without optimizing your Staking and if you are doing that then you are also developing the Coin, securing it. There is a sweet spot for inflation, to have it moderately high enough that everyone will Stake it but not so high that one person can gain all the advantage or will continually drop the price over time because you want people that will trade it, create volume AND Stake as well. Calling something PayCon as a currency is the whole idea of decentralization in itself, like saying that you don't give a fuck about whether or not people see it as legitimate and it will be a success no matter what people think, got a problem with that? Simple, don't buy it because it's not pretending to be something it's not.

Hey, i don't mind a little fun being poked at me- i am a gynecologist and get plenty of jokes about that.  I did feel like I was being judged before I ever had a chance to prove I was legit.  Looking back, i am glad it happened the way it did.  I have had some time to digest a lot of the info and realize that I got very defensive and closed minded.  

I am most likely, (or certainly) going to open the store and use a Very Respected member as an escrow service to establish myself.  I see the points made above about the coin.  I will not say I am not going to release one but it will definitely be approached in a different way if/when I do.  

I do not expect people to just trust me and I have no problem earning it.  As I said, I am glad it happened the way it did.

Lastly,
I did make that website that was mentioned yesterday --  i don't recall the exact address but think its www.fuckyoujosh.org in case you guys have any new funny pics for me to add  

Thank you for what sounds like a much more reasonable response. Also thanks to kilo17 for explaining the situation. I might disagree with what you guys are saying but nevertheless I can respect that.

One note though. I don't think there is any hate. Not on my part anyway. That's a loaded word from Garza's dictionary. As well as FUD etc. None of it matters if you're running an honest venture. Do trolls affect Bitmain or Coinbase in any way? Don't think so. There are plenty of coins too that have survived Bitcointalk so it's not like it's impossible to do anything, it's more like a test that if you can't pass maybe the idea isn't as brilliant as it seemed.

Take Crestington for example, I don't think I've ever seen him lash out no matter how hard he's trolled, and he's running a frickin' parody coin with a "con" in its name. Hire him next time you start something and you'll be certifiably troll-proof

You are a dreamer but you are dreaming complete and total fantasy.

Just sell your art/gems for bitcoin. there are less issues if you do that because people won't drastically change the price acquiring coins to give you, and you won't drastically change the price trying keep things going.

Do something good for crypto by showing that there is a business in crypto that isn't run by a scumbag thief by accepting bitcoin and then using it to pay your bills or just sell some to pay your bills. Why reinvent the wheel? Money works because I can give the pizza guy 20 bucks, he can give me a pizza and take what I gave him to make more pizza AND pay his mortgage. Bitcoin can't go all the way around the circle but it comes pretty close and is big enough that it can work.

A new coin won't work until you can pay your mortgage with it without fucking someone else over, and you can't do that and someone is going to get fucked in that scenario.

Miners/investors who cares?

There is no difference between mining or investing. A miner pays x in equipment/energy to get coins. The investor pays you y to get a coin. They are both paying to get coins, and there is nothing you can do to stop them from selling their coins for more than x or y.

And saying you are going to "back" the coin with anything (gems/cash/btc) won't work because then there is nothing for YOU to do with the coin except to dump it, which will either result in the price going down, or you eventually running out of backing as people buy the coins on the market for less than you are offering and flip them back to you immediately.

This may sound corny as shit, but I am a crypto advocate and just want to do something good for crypto.  I can't offer programming skills to crypto because I cannot program.  People aren't looking to pay for their Pap Smear with crypto at an Ob/Gyn office.  I have some art and gems I have been collecting and think I can somehow help bring something new to crypto.

Maybe I am a dreamer. 

Actually, you are correct...the Paycoin Store was set to fail no matter how it was going to be opened.

Edit-
I also want to point out that the statements I am making are my thoughts and experiences.  I do not want anyone to think it is MasterTrader777's opinion.  I am here on my own accord and want opinions from this community.

Actually there was a lot of discussion about it crashing the price and me losing my ass, many ideas were tossed around including using the BTC the team was refunded by Cryptsy after the last dump of coins.  The problem was that the number of BTC was obviously limited.  The BST idea with a high percentage ICO actually stemmed from that exact issue. The thought process was that if there are less miners then there will be less dumping.  Obviously that is my perspective and I am sure the other members of the Team have theirs.  It was flawed thinking.

Before you do anything, you need to realize that the gem paycoin thing was going to fail with or without the subsidy.

IF they gave you a shitload of coins, you would need to sell them to pay for your gems, that would crash the price. No one was going to buy enough coins to get your gems because there are a ton of people who paid more than your discount was for their paycoins, so if some rando saw that they could buy $1k worth of xpy and get $1.2k worth of gold, they wouldn't do enough to raise the price to counter the scumbags who paid 0 for coins and the bagholders who paid $4-20 who would be rushing to sell their coins.

You had the same problem here, you were going to give people coins for x, then just expect people a week later to pay more. The ICO people are going to dump to take a profit, and when no one buys the coins you took in exchange for gems for a markup you are going to end up dumping yourself or just screwing people over when they come to you looking for gems.

You got conned by some people who are apparently good crooks with GAW, actually learn from it, don't be so defensive when people point out mistakes, and don't get yourself into more trouble by trying to undo that past.

Edit: why start your own coin? Just sell the gems.

I have a real attorney unlike Garbanzo's attorney. Most likely I am going to open the store to accept different coins and then release a coin.  Shit, after the project went up in flames yesterday I am not sure what would be best to do first...the coin or the store...

fair enough, but if you are really putting up gems against a crypto coin, you need a real lawyer, unlike any that homero ever had.

Thank you.  I have nothing to hide and obviously made many mistakes on the BitStone release....BST was not put on hold because it was a scam...it was put on hold because it was heavily flawed...

I just want to thank people for coming clean so to speak (I hope) on this coin and their experiences.... Let's hope the scam accusation thread gets tossed in the trash bin by the mods.

Hello everyone

I want to start off by saying BitStone has flaws and those flaws are going to be addressed....the flaws were pointed out by a number of sources including those listed below-

1-points that were brought up on the thread by Suchmoon and Paul Revere...
2- points brought up by other respected crypto guys
3- my attorney -

I do appreciate the input and hopefully I can get some feedback as BitStone progresses. Often times the strongest critics can have the most valuable info...

It was mentioned here and elsewhere about my involvement with Paycoin.  I originally bought $300-400 in Hashlets when they first came out.  I sold those Haslets within a week....  I mined Paycoin in December and dumped Paycoin in December....Kilo17 was banned from HT for bashing Josh.... I engaged Paycoin again around the CoinStand fiasco and then stuck around and ultimately decided I was going to open a Gem Store for Paycoin.  The idea of the gold/silver was a later addition after I was in talks with the Foundation and Team-- the idea was to get subsidized, initially it was 20,000 XPY for the gems and later on it when the gold and silver came into play it would need to be 100,000+ XPY.  These funds were to be used to subsidize the discounts.  Based on a previous conversation I had with the Team/Foundation I thought the 100,000+ was going to happen and was going to be used to subsidize the gold/silver and Apple products that were mentioned.  Those funds ultimately were not made available and the store was not opened....

I announced to the Team/Foundation and the HT community that I was parting ways and going to create a coin and store without all the attached paycoin baggage.  Sold all but 8000 XPY which are sitting in BTClend and I cannot get out....

I do agree with a lot of the comments that Suchmoon and Paul Revere have made and hindsight is 20/20.  I also spoke to my attorney (yes on a Saturday-he is a friend) and explained what was going on with the Stones and the Coin.  His response was "Thats a fucking horrible idea" in regards to the coin and the gems being asscociated, even if they were 2 separate entities.  The fact that they are being released together would definitely raise eyebrows with some 3 letter organizations.  

As for the stones, I do have the stones and they are real.  I do not have the exact value of them but it is in the $1m range- which as pointed out on the thread would have needed some additional documentation to prove...

For the comments on using part of the team as the escrow - another horrible idea.....

Comments on the premine and how its distributed - I see the point and understand NOW how it would be difficult to truly show who is buying what....

Another problem is the association of the BST numbers and the Paycoin numbers as far as Premine etc.  Honestly that was just a HUGE oversight and I never considered it being associated in that way....

Anyone serious about investing is going to wade through the FUD and decide for themselves based heavily on how those questions are answered, if they provide no real reasoning then people would see that as well. I looked through the thread and also saw that instead of attempting to answer these questions that the conversation was shifted into deflection mode. Regardless of FUD or not, the questions people were asking were never answered and talking about the tactics used in ascertaining the truth still does not make the project any more legitimate or plausible.

whocares lost a lot of the benefit of the doubt when he refused to have rational discussion when people were trying to figure out his "sell gems for less than he paid for them" plan that couldn't work.

People tried being nice at the beginning of the GAW saga and got lied to, got their websites stolen, got dead animals sent to them in the mail, and death threats. Those are not the people who's "tactics" anyone should be questioning. Especially when those people are not asking for a penny.

Valid points to debate. I think the dialog we are having is helping me understand for sure.  While I do agree with you on most of your points, consider this: the first post on the BitStone thread were a link to an unmoderated thread- which I am not saying in and of itself was wrong,  I am saying that in that thread it was nothing but a bunch of personal attacks and posts that were copied from the GAW thread.  Those types of comments have no value to a coin release and most if not all were simply FUD. 

Secondly, I do think the first posts from several of the GAW thread regulars on the BitStone thread were scam accusations and offered no real reasoning.  Some of the posts after that had VERY valid points, no doubt.  The problem in my eyes is this, if a person comes on a thread and the first post is SCAM then all post after that are soured.  Having said that, it is exactly what I did on this thread and I appreciate you continuing to discuss matters with me.

Lastly, I apparently did not make myself clear.  Kilo17 was angry at me for the OP (meaning the original post I made) - which most of you were also upset about.

I do appreciate your replies.

Try to bring up a mortally sick cow with named paycoin that would then slaughter it and to put on the meat? 
Only a fool would believe in those stories. I think that general attempt agony defrauded the paycoin investors who still believe that they can pump up the value to this dummy coin and jump out of it with less damage.

His screen name was Trixster and was also active a bit on the GetHashing forums as well.


This just comes back to doing the things that need to be done and helping in the most effective way and facing whatever people are going to say head on and make no apologies about it. If someone is going to try to embarrass you how are they going to succeed if you are open and upfront about the things that you are doing? Hack into your emails and release all your private information? What if everything in private is exactly the same things said in public?


If you contact someone privately asking them if it's a scam and they tell you it isn't, then that will not make it a scam? What if you asked the wrong questions and the information provided was false but you believed it and then other people based their judgments on your personal analysis?


You should never be scared to hide information because you are afraid of what other people might think or people would use that information to try to embarrass you. Information is only embarrassing if you deem it so, people pick up on this and jump on it, this is the internet and what people say about the things you do really does not matter in the slightest. Some of the best advice I was ever given was "to own your mistakes" because everyone is going to make mistakes, it's part of life but you cannot learn from your mistakes if you cannot face them, accept them and learn from them.


"Hate and trolling" is the reality on the internet and if you cannot accept that and discuss the issues that people have a problem with in a mature manner then you should not be doing this kind of work. Face life head on, you will always come out ahead because if you are not then those things will build up until they get out of control.

You are saying that Whocares/kilo17 are angry because you are discussing these things, I see that as a red flag for investing in their project since they should be the ones answering peoples questions.

What is the point of doing it privately?

I don't know whether whocares has good intentions and didn't understand the problems with the coin, or bad intentions and was trying to make a quick buck.

either way, it's better for everyone to point out the problems publicly. If he has good intentions, we can publicly figure out what's wrong, and try to educate everyone else. If he has bad intentions, why let some other rube fall into the trap in between the time we reach out and realize that he is ignoring us?

I know you don't want this to be about that coin, but the idea of 1 million worth of gems, or 100 million CAF, or whatever "backing" a coin with:

a) nothing for the person "backing" the coin to do with the coins after they acquire them.

b) no way for that backing to grow to keep pace with the coins inflation via staking/mining whatever CANNOT work.

There really is no middle ground, if you claim that will work you are either incompetent and not smart enough to "run" a coin, or a liar and a scumbag who shouldn't be trusted to "run" a coin. I don't know (or care) which one whocares was/is, stopping other people from losing anything of value in there is a benefit to crypto in a positive way because everyone person that gets fucked over by one of these schemes that can't work by definition is going to have a much bigger negative impact in crypto.

I do not disagree with what many of you have stated.  I would like to respond to some of the replies.  I did lose some on Paycoin and ignored the warning signs, big mistake but it wasn't much money.  I bought an account because I think if I post with my real account I will be ridiculed for a mistake I made and do not wish to have my personal life brought into your thread. 

In response to another couple of comments, yes I am aware of the guy with terminal cancer that Josh screwed.  I cannot remember his name on HT but I think it started with the letter "T' and I believe he did some design work.  I am also aware that you guys were on JG before the emails were leaked or made available and I apologized in a previous post, if I didn't then I apologize now.

I was one of the guys that was on HT for a long time and saw many people come and go.  I do know that many on the GAW thread have been ridiculed for trying to help those that did lose.  Just because people have a desire to try and get a coin back on its feet and that coin was a HUGE scam by JG does not mean they are a scammer. I also see your points that it will be exceedingly difficult because it is a flawed coin to begin with.

I do see the point that it is definitely a riskier endeavor to invest in an HT members coin than someone that did not potentially lose money on Paycoin.  Once again, you are assuming that Whocares lost money, when in reality it was stated on multiple threads by a lot of members that Whocares didn't even start on Paycoin until late in the game.

If Whocares does have good intentions and you have good intentions (preventing scams and protecting people), wouldn't it have been easier to contact him or another team member and say "listen, many of us have a problem with you coming out with a coin that resembles Paycoin, particularly since you were an active HT member.  We strongly advise you to rethink the coin" or hell, maybe even add in a small incentive (aka threat) like "or we will haunt you down like that scumbag JG'

That at least gives an honest person something to consider and allows them to respond.  I can tell you from my point of view, I am scared to death of you guys and want none of you crawling up my ass, not because I am scared of what you will find but because I do not want to deal with the embarassment that I have seen on the GAW thread because I made a dumb ass move.

I am not here to promote anyone or anything accept to possibly enlighten a few people that a different approach from some of you could do a lot of good for crypto and BCT.  There is so much hate and trolling that it makes it impossible for someone that may have a good idea to foster that idea.  I am not saying that scammers should get off easy or that 90+% of coins aren't scams.

Like I have said before, it is very obvious that many of you know crypto very well, I just think that your talents could also be used to benefit crypto in a positive way.

I pissed off Whocares/kilo17 on the Bitstone thread for making this thread because he said it was uncalled for and very inflammatory.  So again I want to apologize for the OP.  I have invited him to post here on the thread for what I think could be potentially invaluable feedback.

Thank you, saved me typing my own response 

Bagholding is a very bad motivation, worse than the other big reason why people get into crypto (greed). A bagholder trying to recover his/her lost "investment" by cooking up another scheme is like a gambler who just lost a yolo bet and is borrowing money to win it all back. Would you lend money to such person?

All those post-XPY schemes should be considered more dangerous than any other shitcoin for that reason alone IMHO.

angry bag holder?

pointing out that a coin makes no sense and has major problems is not bullying. Perhaps if you would have read that when people were doing it about hashlets, paycoins, hashstakers, and ALL of Josh's other scams you wouldn't have been screwed by him.'

I'm still not sure what on earth you are on about with regards to "illegal" posts. It was obvious to Paul Revere, suchmoon, myself and others that paycoin wouldn't/couldn't work. We didn't need the emails to shwo that, and tried to warn everyone. The emails came way after the fact and just showed how scummy Josh actually was and that HE "realized" that it couldn't work. The emails were publicly available and just proved to show how shady the thing was.

Stop worrying about people "bullying" guys that robbed you and/or are trying to rob you or are trying some other scheme that can't/won't work and start worrying about your money. You will be in a much better place.

Red flag #1: Purchased account


Red flag #2: Bringing their children into an argument


Red flag #3: Evidence of shilling


Red flag #4: Sympathy garnering / Appeal to emotion

its not trolling or fud when you are trying to understand the product. there were clear problems in the initial proposal. just because you want to invest & had good interactions with whocares doesnt translate into non questioning undying love from the larger community. trust is earned not demanded. also some people made money with GAW but it doesnt mean it was right

you have to separate people from ideas. ridiculing ideas is perfectly fine and should be done. no idea is perfect from the get go, it has to evolve to be a good one. the doctor might have good intentions but it needs real work. reason for extra scrutiny is due to the fact that some people from the HT community tried to regain their losses by starting ponzis and other scams (tntcoin and what not). to the doctors credit he didnt remove all posts from his thread and communicated in a way that could gain him trust and respect in the long run. role of the dev was left quite unclear. was he there to generate value for his other project, hired to just dev it or what. because they shared one account to post it turned very convoluted. transparency > *

ps:
garza told a terminally ill person to invest his nest egg after his initial investment into GAW. that guy lost his legacy due to the overall attitude of not asking questions. (to make it less sad one guy from the "original 19" gave him 10k to leave something behind for his wife)

Actually it is a purchased account, but wrong on both counts.  It is neither an account for Bitstone or JG.  I was screwed by Josh and like I have said I think what you accomplished with exposing him is a great thing.  I have not read much of the thread on GAW because I think it attacks a lot of the wrong people.  I am not talking about Josh or GAW employees or any associate - including Jonah - none of them deserve any sympathy.

My biggest complaint is how you bully people and embarrass them. Having a child with a disability I am sensitive to bullying.  Like I have said before, I have seen Whocares good deeds on HT and he helped out a lot of people with direct donations etc.  I have been following his coin for a while on a Bitstone slack channel (not Paycoin) and want to invest.  I do believe that you have some good points but you presented them poorly.  Why not simply state what could be improved upon with the coin and have a normal conversation instead of posting personal attacks and FUD.  It is obvious you have knowledge about crypto and could actually do some good.

You are correct, I do not know how you got the emails nor do I care.  I was wrong in making those accusations.  I am writing this and know there is a good chance it will fall on deaf ears.  Whats worse is there is an even higher probability it will get turned into a big joke and bashed - but I wanted you to think about what your agenda was when the GAW thread was started and what it has turned into now.  The actions you take have an affect not only on the ones you are persecuting but their families as well.


good night

edited to add the following:
I posted it here and a link to the GAW thread only.  My intentions were to take the discussion away from the thread (as you asked) but I was not going to PM you.  I am not trying to get HT users here or involved in any coin.

And Garza shill. Maybe badbitcoin would appreciate your narrative and hire you as the editor.

I went through the different posts of the people on the thread, WillieBTC seems like the only bought account or atleast the only farmed account.

I also came across the certification, looks quite legit but does very little for proving credibility since the diamond could still be fake. The wallet shown is super shitty, especially for something that is supposed to be backed by a million dollars in assets. The wallet proof they have of it mining is of the statistics page, which means absolutely nothing because the statistics page only displays whatever values you put in, if you wanted you could type in that if it's under block 1000 there are 0 Coins when it's really producing 1 million Coins a Block or 10 times less money supply than there is.

If they are trying to attack people credibility over people poking holes in their idea then it will probably crash and burn before it's even begun whether or not it's a scam. If it's going to be legit and they want it to be legit, they should be asking people to find faults and providing undeniable proof.

If that's the case it's probably going to backfire. Will attract more negative attention than anything else.

No, not Mr. Garza.

The spelling would be much worse but then if he actually did take the time to spell check, the way it is written is also not his style.

I would give it a 10% chance of it being Garza but a 95% chance of it being a purchased account for the sole purpose of hyping up Bitstone to make it seem more credible.

What are you suggesting? Mr. Garza himself making an appearance to entertain us?

Frankly - I'm honored. Go Willy.

Just an FYI for you guys.

WillieBTC seems to be a farmed account that was bought between April 21st and June 1st which seems very apparent by the one word posts and 0 contribution to any discussion since it was created until about 2 weeks ago.

First rule to scamming is deflection of the issue by trying to attack the other persons credibility. Exactly same tactic as was tried with that TNTCoin shit where instead of trying to answer questions about how they were going to back $1 a Coin when there is 1 billion Coins, it was made about Miaviator being interim CEO of PayCoin which had absolutely no relation to anything that was being asked.

Ok that makes it so much easier. I was kind of expecting some sort of argument/rebuttal/discussion but it looks like you have switched to full personal attack mode. Good luck with that.

Cronies LOL. You do realize where you posted the link don't you? Post the link on Hashtalk wherever ex-hashtalkers are hanging out, maybe you'll get some supporters to come here.

If you think that asking questions on a forum is bullying you should probably switch your devices off and go play outside. You will have an extremely hard time anywhere on the Internet unless you browse with the strictest parental controls on. People are not going to agree with you all the time, especially if you try to impose your point of view on everyone.

Whenever you're ready to substantiate and discuss your earlier accusations like an adult - just let me know.

Please go on. You're a funny, clueless guy !

Rofl, so sad because they questioned the legitimacy of your shitcoin and you make a thread calling FUD.

Hey genius, before you are going to clone another centralized shitcoin maybe you should have everything worked out first. Both Paul and Suchmoon have every right to question your motives in the same way as anyone else here does, it's called freedom of speech and you need people that are going to police themselves.

If you can't take the heat then GTFO.

Yeah willy is so retarded, he actually thinks at least 1/10th of one us is loyal to Mr. Ganza.

 

btw, hows' scrypt.cc going lately?

What a desperate, funny thread.

Why don't you just PM your address, since your so "open" and stuff?

edit: there were multiple email leaks, it must be tough being as ingnorant as Willy.  He doesn't even know the history of the events that he is referring to.  The Kool-aid is strong with this one.

I see you brought your cronies along to help defend you.  Nice move, posting stolen emails (regardless of leaving his account open) is a crime.  I do see how you became a hero to all the guys from the GAW thread - it isn't hard to look good when you are surrounded by shit.

Not a single one of the people that posted on here have any common sense, I would venture to guess that most of them are teenagers and/or living with their parents at the age of 30.

Regardless, you seem to think that you can go around bullying people, if you want to bully someone please let me know who you are and i will give you that opportunity.  I am certain that will not happen because like I mentioned earlier, you are afraid of the legal reprocussions if someone knew your true identity.

As for bitcoinnoisseur- what an idiot that guy is- one person says open public domain and another person says "leaked emails were an inside job" - which means if you post it knowing it was a leak (aka stolen) it is a crime.  And I will be happy to meet up with you as well so that you can "take out the trash" - just PM your address and I will make it happen -

The only trash that needs to be thrown out around here are you guys and JG -  

Tactics used on a message board? C'mon man altcoins by their nature are typically either ill conceived or created purely to enrich one or a small group of individuals from the cash of others.  None are compliant with US financial regulatory bodies, it's the wild west out there and you are gonna whine about a couple of scambusters because they happen to be effective? There are no ethics in alts, only profit motives stop trying to be righteous and move along.

Absolutely - The whole guy/coin thing is just another spin-off scame. Anyone with half a brain can see it, it's painfully obvious. But again, we're the trolls who kill all their coins & ideas whatever, right? 

Funny how they never show proof of anything, just false acusations.  Cult members are interesting folk, two sets of rules.  He probably still defends the fraudster, yet is focused on PR and suchmoon.

edit: Do you think he knows a lot of those emails weren't hacked, they were set to "public"? Google groups FTW

I will agree, this is one of the dumbest waste-of-life threads ever. This willy guy is a moron, whose scam-coin will fail. End of story. Sorry you got paycoined, willy... You should have named your account PaycoinedWillie - It may have been worth a lot more than your shitcoin in the end. Hahahaha!!

Why do you think suchmoon or Paul did anything illegal?

No one hacked anything. Josh/GAW stupidly left access to the google group/email open to the public so people just clicked it, read everything and saved it. Other parts of the email were collected due to an SEC subpoena, and leaked from someone else in GAW.

No one hacked anything.

This is the MrCEO/Hashtalk narrative (funny how the ideology still lives long after the site is dead and Garza AWOL) originating from when CoinFire first published about the SEC investigation I think. Attack the messenger, ignore the message, declare it illegal to speak of such things. Repeat it until blue in the face.

What are you on about? What illegal activity? State ONE proven illegal act that I committed then I'll see if I need to deny anything.

What HT association? I don't understand this at all.

What SCAM accusation? No idea here either. Where did I say that I might or might not invest and why is that a concern of yours?


Who are you asking? What thread?

You seem to have a serious problem with expressing your thoughts. I'm not telepathic, please speak in full sentences.


You gather wrong. Again, name one crime that I promoted/committed. That shouldn't be hard since you're so convinced and keep repeating that statement.

Posting someone's e-mails already available in the public domain is not a crime but if you're so unhappy about that feel free to sue me. First however you would need to find the evidence of me doing that and so far you're only making outrageous claims with no proof whatsoever.

And now you're accusing me of unfunny jokes? (I don't think I ever made that particular joke but if you find a link to me saying anything about fetus punching - feel free to post here).

Please answer the following questions one at a time with links to the appropriate posts/sites/etc that you believe support your claims. If you can't do that I'm afraid I must conclude that you yourself are trolling and spreading unfounded accusations.

Apparently we have a whole new set of trash to take out. Keep running your ignorant and delusional mouth willy and you will surely soon join the likes of Josh and the rest of the scum that so may of us here have helped expose. If you spent one tenth of the amount of time you pretend to have spent reading the GAW thread you are referring to, then you would know without question, that the email leaks were an inside job. All that was done here is that they were displayed or linked to so that everyone could see the true fucking scumbag Josh and his pathetic cohorts were. Anyone that did or continues to attempt to scam anyone via anything GAW or paycoin, will be exposed. Why don't you crawl your pathetic, delusional scumbag ass the hell out of crypto and back to the slime-pit hole you came out of. Many of the people in the GAW thread were fucking relentless in their pursuit of the truth. Guess what? They were correct from start to finish. Too fucking bad you don't like how it was done.

BTW asshole, Josh is the one that wanted to punch, the woman he impregnated, in the stomach. He is the sick fuck. No one here ever thought it was funny. But for you to realize any of that you would have had to read the emails or the thread, which obviously you did not, and you would have had to comprehend how to read in context. It seems that basic skill eludes you.

What illegal activity ? They had nothing to do with the GAW email dump other than discussing its contents.

In reference to your questions.  Please read the statement I made again carefully:

From what I can gather, Paul and Suchmoon have promoted/committed multiple crimes like Hacking Websites, Hacking Emails, Hacking Twitter Accounts and posting the info.  I saw references and Jokes about punching babies and posting naked pictures of peoples wives.  I have yet to figure out how doing all of that is "good" for the crypto community.  Yes they brought down that scumbag Josh Garza but they did it in an illegal way.


It says - promoted/committed and then also says "posting the info"

You have posted multiple emails of JG


And you guys did make jokes about a fetus getting punched-- i am not defending Josh, I am saying that you guys  have zero moral compass and that a Fetus getting punched is NOT funny

What was your purpose on the thread?

So you are not denying the illegal activity?
You are not denying the fact that it was the HT association that brought you to that thread?
I am not attacking you, you guys brought up valid concerns but the way you do it is trolling.  I saw the SCAM accusation post before they were deleted.  Then a few pages later 1 of you is saying you might invest - that is BS

You haven't answered a single question I asked in the other thread.


As for helping crypto and whatnot. That's your interpretation. All I ever did was ask questions and make fund of the utter stupidity that was GAW. Whether that helps anyone or anything is beyond the scope or purpose of anything I did. In the case of GAW perhaps it contributed to the downfall but it wasn't the deciding factor. The fact that the whole operation was designed to fail - that was the deciding factor.

Same thing with any other coin or site or whatever. Asking questions is not going to bring anything down. Not having answers to those questions however might be an indicator that something is not right. For example BitStone devs never responded whether they actually own and can prove that they own $1m worth of gems. If you want to invest in that coin without getting answers to such fundamental questions - that's your problem, not mine. Go ahead and do whatever you feel is good for you.

tl;dr: me asking questions is not preventing you from not asking questions. Why then do you feel the need to prevent me from asking those questions? Live and let live.

I am creating this thread to allow open discussion of Suchmoon and Paul Revere to post in reference to comments I made about them on other threads on BCT.  I would take it to the famed GAW thread but the way they insult people and make jokes about 'Fetus Punching" etc makes it a hostile environment and not a place I want to post.

I respect them for bringing down Josh Garza but not in the way it was done.  They have used illegally obtained information (hacked emails and hacked accounts) to get it done.  For that I do not think that they are any different than Josh Garza, they are criminals.

They are definitely masters of taking a blurb out of context and tangling it in a web of deceit.  I will be happy to defend my points here but as soon as their "anti GAW Posse" shows up with insults I have no problem going silent.

I also think that they feel the need to terrorize and embarass anyone that was invested in Paycoin.  That is not necessary and all it does is give crypto a bad name .  

In regards to the crimes, posting stolen emails is illegal.  Even if they were obtained by someone with legal access if the owner of the email does not approve it.  I can assure you that even JG (as stupid as he is) did not ok ALL of his personal emails to be posted on the GAW thread.

Lastly,  If you guys have committed no crimes, why are you hiding your true identity?  There are a lot of people posting on the 2000+ pages on the GAW thread and a lot of the people that post frequestly do not hide, but you 2 (the ring leaders) continue to hide.  My theory is that it is because you are afraid of reprocussions for the illegal activity you are involved in.

You asked why I am "attacking you", I am not attacking you, I am merely debating with you.  I jumped on your post because you are not honest.  You have no intentions of investing in BitStone, the only intentions you guys have is to destroy it because the Founder was associated with HT.  Well, I had the opportunity to see what a kind and generous guy he is on HT with tons of donations.  If you did not attack BitStone because of the HT association, (as you stated on that thread) then why not attack the other 100's of coins released.

I do not wish to get into a long drawn out deal with either of you, but please do not think everyone else is an idiot because they want to invest in something.  If you guys were truly trying to help crypto you would simply make a post on ALL the coins as to why you think it is a SCAM ask the questions you have in 1 post and then move on to the next.  Continued posting and posting things out of context is not helping - it is trolling.