Topic: [DISCUSSION] Bitcoin, Fiat, Inflation, Default (Read 218 times)

That never happened!
The 337 figure is the debt from 2010 when the refinancing and restructuring within the EU began, Greece never defaulted on that debt, it has failed in 2015 to make a one-time payment to the IMF for 20 days, but that was just shy of 1.5 billion.


Again, where do you get your numbers from?
Argentian defaulted for $93 billion in 2001, $29 billion in 2014, and again in 2020, but just for $500 million, technically the two of them are not really defaults as they have a long history of Argentina not acknowledging that debt.


Again...when
Zimbabwe defaulted on various debts in 2000, 2003 and 2014:
80% unemployment? Nope!
https://africacheck.org/fact-checks/reports/zimbabwes-unemployment-rate-4-60-or-95-why-data-unreliable


The were hundreds of defaults during the gold standard before the introduction of fiat money, gold just as Bitcoin can't stop a country from going bankrupt just as it can't stop someone on an individual level from going bankrupt. There is nothing magical about it, the moment you spend more than you make is the moment you're in debt, and the moment you can't afford to pay your debt you default, no currency, no metal, no crypto can stop this!

I can't say exactly and correctly because a country like Elsavador is a developing country, and their economy is not too much affected in the ecosystem world if they used Bitcoin as currency like right now. But when we talk about how the supply currency is very important to growing and reducing inflation, bitcoin is one of a kind product which not affected by it. Now, what I can say about it is, confident. We know, bitcoin is a recent currency, but the prestige of Bitcoin is like an old asset for decades, from that fact, I can say that Bitcoin is one solution to the problem above.

I agreed with you on the second sentence of the clause. But for the first part I will want you to explain more. Is it the investment part or the trading part that make it to be the world solution invention? Yes I know inflation is man made and they are using it to suffer the poor masses. Inflation can be removed by the state government if he wants to do that but the top businessmen would not want that happening. No country is so bad in the world but it is the leaders that caused the whole thing in the country. If the bad leaders are eliminated and good ones took over the government then the people would celebrates. And when bad leader rules the people suffer. Country presidents make policies that destroy their own currency for the other currencies.

When I look at the list, I am not personally surprised that some countries are bankrupt and cannot repay their debts, although I am surprised that there is a large country like Argentina, and even more so that Greece, as a member of the European Union and the Eurozone, is among such countries.

Given that Greece is the closest to me and I know the most about this case, I can only say that their politicians are to blame for their situation, who actually did everything for the country to get into such a situation, enabling the country to live far beyond its means in an attempt to buy civil peace.The stories say that the Greeks had some of the biggest and strangest benefits, especially when it comes to the public/state sector - and now they have debts that will burden them for the next 40 years.

The issue of Bitcoin as a solution in such complicated situations is for me personally rather frivolous, because regardless of whether people use fiat, Bitcoin or gold, the most important thing is how the system is set up and who manages it. El Salvador is an example that, at least for now, shows that Bitcoin is not a magic solution, although many forget that country has had the US dollar as its national currency for more than 20 years and that BTC is just an additional choice, which by all indications is used by very few people in that country.

As for Bitcoin as a global currency accepted by all major and important countries, this is something that will probably never happen because every country will always protect their national currencies with the help of which they have control over their economies and the people they rule.

First thing, you need to look up on the definition of 'Inflation' the dropping price of Bitcoin or other currency doesn't always mean an 'inflation', inflation is more closely related to the supply, demand and price of general goods and service. When people says Bitcoin is not affected by Inflation is because bitcoin is not controlled by any government. In a simple explanation, when the price of goods and service is surging, government will print more fiat and encourage people to take loans, this is how inflation affect fiat currency and not Bitcoin.

Regarding all of those country problem, I agree with most of the replies in here. The problems of those countries are their corrupts government, and Bitcoin couldn't fix that corruption. The best thing Bitcoin could do is make the transaction of the government more traceable, those maybe could minimize corruption but I those corrupt government official will always find a way to cheat on the system, using USD or other fiat that's still not traceable.

Bitcoin is a solution to all the world’s problems & I’m not kidding when I say that. Inflation is a scam, an annual tax on all our savings. Those countries were all badly governed, countries wealth mismanaged & bad policies.
Money printing is a huge problem, it made their currencies worthless.

Well, I would still say that you are deviating from the context, the main thing is whether or not Bitcoin could help those aforementioned countries and others that are in debt and could not fulfil their financial obligations, especially to foreign countries. And my answer remains no, other than for investments, Bitcoin will not be able to help them because their economy is bad and inflation is only one factor that could affect a bad economy, there are many more.

The bad intercountry relationship arrangement is one of them and mostly centres on corruption because those countries exploiting their resources give some politicians, brokers and military high-ranking cuts, that's part of bad management of the country's resources that I mentioned. It's not a matter of one country exploiting them or something, it's they that allow the exploitation, can't they do things themselves? So, this still buttresses my point that Bitcoin can't heal or save them in this regard, it's they that need to go back to their policies review and economic management to make amends.

So El Salvador uses bitcoin as their financial reserve? unlike other countries that use gold as a reserve asset. Interestingly enough, maybe if bitcoin had a price of $100,000, El Salvador would have a pretty good economy. Do you know how much bitcoin cost when El Salvador bought bitcoin?

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A little tip: It might be easier to read if you use a new paragraph for every 3 or 4 lines. Paragraphs that are too long make my eyes tired reading your writing

What caught my attention here are the two things which are inflation and bitcoin and not the five Countries that are bankrupted by debt. I don't know if the way I understand bitcoin is different from others. I understand bitcoin as a digital currency which has the elements of the Fiat Currency just as dollar. Dollar is also rising and falling and bitcoin does the same. So I don't think bitcoin was created to radicate/eliminate inflation but is to support the Fiat Currency in the digital world. So any country as adopted it will use it alongside with the Fiat. Bitcoin is just a decade long in the world so people are still contemplating on the currency to know it more and that is why countries t.hat have adopted it as a legal tender is still struggling to use it fully. And I as I stated it in somewhere else, as a digital currency, it is not all the citizens of a country are digital literate to use the technology that can also give a setback. And El Salvador government has not fully used or distributed the bitcoin they have bought, they still stored them in their wallets so bitcoin has not really flow to the masses in the country because the coins are still under the government reserve wallet. And it is only some of the individual that using the coin in their daily businesses. And let see what they will do in the next bull market. If they open the treasury of bitcoin then the coins will be circulated to all the regions and the uses will be higher.
And one of the problem  in the debt management sector in a country is the from the corrupt leaders from the top. All those countries can pay off their debt in the stipulated time but the bad leadership is the issue. Mostly the third world countries are suffering from this.

It may be easy to talk about exports to other countries, but I'm sure big countries will make things difficult for them. Maybe it can be described in more detail so that the discussion develops more


Sorry I deleted, your comment is too general and does not have a clear analysis flow


Yes, I am quite suspicious that big countries are deliberately manipulating exchange rates in a sneaky way. If a country has a lot of money, it is not difficult for a small country's security stability to be disrupted so that its economy deteriorates and the value of its currency drops sharply.


I think it's just earning for yourself. And it cannot be a reference that bitcoin/crypto is a solution.


I think it's only a small part, and it doesn't make a big difference to El Salvador. Do you have a more detailed analysis of bitcoin and El Salvador? How Bitcoin works and contributes to the economic development of El Salvador.


Yes, corruption is indeed a serious problem and difficult to eradicate. Talking about resources, sometimes big countries already control the natural resources of small countries and it cannot be nationalized easily so that sometimes countries that have lots of natural resources do not prosper their country but bring prosperity to foreign companies that already have contracts to manage these natural resources. . And that happens a lot in small and developing countries. Perhaps in its history, only Cuba was the last country that dared to nationalize its country's natural resources which were controlled by foreign countries under the leadership of Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, but that also did not end well.

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Sorry for comments that are too general and don't have a clear analysis, I deleted it

Oh... This reminds me of the Athenian democracy where families, villages, communities and the entire people were consulted to take policy decisions and that is the essense of democracy but what has gone wrong in all countries because every one country had a little beginning where they did things in one fold and got happy with policies. Is the kind of democracy we see today, that which was practiced in time past, where inflation was little or known, when currencies were valuable to purchase as adequate products as needed. What has really gone wrong


Bitcoin used as world currency will not guarantee no inflation. This is because IMO, miners may increase fees overtime since fiat is out. I think if miners fee begin to increase then that can reduce the value of your bitcoin, despite bitcoin being deflationary but where fiat is totally taken out, the forces of demand and supply may start to occur. I can imagine miners or exchange increasing transaction fee between $30 to $150 for transfer of $1,000 worth of bitcoin.

## Repost of what was mistakingly deleted by @PytagoraZ ##

In summary, what I could say is that you are misrepresenting things here, inflation is not the issue with those countries that could not fulfil their debt obligations, a bad economy is, and inflation is just one of the many factors that could make an economy bad.

Mind you, Inflation is internal, meaning that the economy might still be good despite an increase in it, this is just as the government looks for ways to tackle it. The issue of those countries is that their governments misappropriated public funds through corruption, and their careless management of the country's resources and issuance of bad policies destroy the economy.

This is significant if the countries are importing than exporting, which deprives them of foreign earnings and hence the shortage of Forex to fulfil their foreign debts obligations.

Bitcoin can only help in this situation for an investment purpose, not a solution to the countries' problem as you view it.

If you mentioned my name correctly with the hyphen with it, I would have seen this and I would have not created the topic that I created. I have edited and reported the topic to be deleted. But be careful not to delete post if it is self-modetrated.

If you can speculate bitcoin price accurately, it could be of some help. In long term, bitcoin price also increase.

According to what I found out, despite the warning from IMF to El Salvador, bitcoin adoption in El Salvador helps. It helps in tourism. Most El Salvadorans prefer fiat and most of them do not hold bitcoin. Bitcoin help in remittance, but most of them convert the coin to USD and people that sell accept bitcoin in USD in the country (they automatically convert the coin to USD when they accept bitcoin payment). I have not seen any negative neffect of bitcoin in El Salvador than its positive effect.

But a good economy will start when a country export more than they import. If a country depends more on imports, there will be inflation than in a country that exports more.

Oh no, I'm sorry. I was planning to quote the comments from Charles Tim and Victor, but I ended up hitting the wrong button and I hit delete. Sorry, this is my first thread using self moderator. We hope you are willing to come back to discuss here.
@Charles-Tim
@EarnOnVictor

There are many factor working behind inflation. It's not just about the currency. To maintain a health economy the government has to do many things. As the user above said,


Most of these country had lots of corruption. These country would take lots of loans from IMF or other international and when they are out of money they either force it to the people (like increasing Tax etc) or would declare bankrupt.


To answer the question you have to understand the difference between Fiat currency and Crypto currency. Fiat is backed up/controlled by a central government. It's price could be easily manipulated. Also there are problems like Counterfeit. The central bank can also issue order to print more fiat currency hence the cause of inflation.

As for Bitcoin it's blockchain is fully decentralized. Meaning nobody has authority over it. You mentioned about price drop. Well it's happens because of bear and bullish season. Price will drop but eventually it will rise again. Bitcoin is a long term investment. It's a cycle. But for fiat once it loses it's value it's impossible to get back. It's entire economy is doomed. I'm not saying I'm a expert of crypto. But if you analyze the history you'll understand surely what I meant.

I think not just Bitcoin I think crypto is the answer. How much would you earn if you were in a middle economy country? You have to give bribe to have a job and even you get a job how many years would it take to pay the debt. But developed country the situation is different but for country I mentioned crypto is the key. I have been maintaining my whole family ever since covid broke out. (No job, only with the power of crypto). Nobody knows what I do or my income source, all they know I'm always sitting behind my laptop and typing. So if you have enough knowledge and have the curiosity to learn, then why not. I'll surely give it a chance to prove itself.  

p.s: I really liked your location, Gryffindor

Those country that you listed above, it was due to bad government and corruption was what made those countries unable to pay their debts. A country with poor economy will take a very long time for it to be reformed even though if bitcoin is adopted as a legal tender. Most country that has poor economy is based on mismanagement of public funds, instead of using this borrowed money to put into the country's development by building infrastructures and to produce goods for export. Tey embezzle the funds and when they are out of the office,the debt will still be on the country. Inflation is part of the world economy but how to tackle inflation relies on each country's government. Bitcoin isn't a magical coins that will stop inflation instantly or change a poor economy to a stable one instantly.

Until now, there are 5 countries that have failed to pay (default) to their creditors, and have been declared bankrupt.

1. Ecuador
Ecuador refuses to pay debts to US-based hedge funds because they consider the debts immoral

2. Venezuela
In 2017, Venezuela defaulted on a debt of $1.1 billion USD

3. Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe defaulted on a debt of $4.5 billion USD in 2008 and the unemployment rate in Zimbabwe rose to 80%

4. Argentina
Argentina defaulted due to high inflation rates and was unable to pay its $46 billion USD debt

5. Greece
Greece as a country of philosophers and a country that created a democratic system but failed to manage its own country. Greece defaulted on a debt of 337 billion EURO

Right now Somalia is running out of money and it is likely that they will default on their debt.

What do you think happened here? Have inflation rates gotten so ridiculous in recent years that countries are starting to default on their debts? Or is this a fiat trap, whereby inflation will continue to eat away at world finances, and the dollar will only get stronger.

Can Bitcoin be a solution?
Ok, let's look at bitcoins. Bitcoin is considered as one of the currency revolutions, bitcoin is believed to be able to maintain its value and there is no inflation in bitcoin. But when the bitcoin price continues to fall, isn't that inflation? and a drop in the price of bitcoin is more ridiculous than a drop in the price of fiat currency, although it's the same when the price of bitcoin goes up like crazy.

Then, what about El Salvador? he has adopted bitcoin as the legal currency in his country. Is El Salvador now a country that has a good economy? I can't comment much, and El Salvador doesn't seem to have changed much, maybe because the implementation of bitcoin is still new and still needs process.

Do you think, if bitcoins were used as world currency, there would be no inflation and no defaults? I need your analysis, let's discuss

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PS , Self-mod To prevent spam and off topic