Topic: [Discussion] The Merit System builds our personality (Read 604 times)

It's been a fascinating experiment so far.

I'd say shitposting is down but that went hand in hand with being more strict on Sig campaigns too.

It has also spawned other forms of shitposting, the aforementioned merit fishing which I find a bit nauseating and there are also the posters who are blind to their emptiness and will carry on with the shit convinced it's only a matter of time their genius will be picked up on.

The merit obsessives are the most interesting. It seems it dominates certain lives.

I prefer to dribbles on as normal and see what happens.

The things that I have learned with this merit system is to be patient, be creative, put some efforts.

Just be patient, don't lose hope when you haven't received merits for almost 1 week, maybe your three threads are not just too good enough to be appreciated, make some moves, forget those things and create quality posts.

Be creative and put some efforts, as you can see most of the top merited posts here are very useful and creative, they put some explanations and they make things clear to us. If we are going to put efforts on our threads we will gain merits, just like this one, it is not that easy to create a program for this forum. He puts effort from doing that so he deserves merits as well.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54234252

If you find any member doing this, you can report them. When your accusation is true that members can get at least negative trust from DT member. I remember about a member getting a lot of merit in a few weeks after he joined this forum.  Even he not getting perma ban from Theymos, he gets a lot of negative trust from DT member. (read the full case here: Disadvantage of Quick merit earn method.). So, if you find something wrong, report it.

I don't agree with you.
Yes,  some members trying to abuse merit system but honest members,  someone who contribute to the forum with constructive and quality posts will be rewarded eventually.
Even if someone feels that his posts deserve merits,  there are several merit giveaway  topics where new  members can report their good  posts and ask merit.
Any way,, I feel that merits are good because new and old  members are trying more to increase quality of their posts.
Of course still we have to fight with scam.

This may be the case for a minority of users, but in general, this isn't true. People who make very good and merit worthy posts generally consistently make high quality and merit worthy posts and therefore earn more merit, which is why it seems there is some sort bias for their posts, when in reality it's just that their posts are consistently high quality. I generally pay very little attention as to who has made a post when deciding whether or not to give out merit. In fact, if I do pay attention to the user, it's usually to skew my decision making in the opposite direction to that which you are suggesting - when I am down to fewer than 10 remaining sMerit to hand out, I'll sometimes skip high quality posts by high ranked members or members who I know I frequently merit, and instead opt to "save" my sMerit for newbies and other lower ranked members.

Please post links to them in this thread: [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source

There is no doubt that the merit system builds our personality but at the same time merit abusing from members builds the worst personality.Because by abusing merit system the users who deserve merit are getting ignored.Depriving from others don't build our personal ever.

this could mainly be because those users are active in the same boards not because they have created any kind of group to circle merit amongst themselves. for example according to bpip site i have sent the most merit to user @o_e_l_e_o and thinking back it is because i keep seeing his good quality posts in the same boards that i regularly visit like the technical boards. now looking at your post history you seem to be posting a lot in gambling, Pilipinas and altcoin boards and these boards are among those that i either never visit or rarely visit. so i would never see any of your top quality posts to give merit to.

This is something that may irritate some people, but the merit system is not moderated (except in rare cases of abuse), so theoretically someone can assign all their merits only to one person or a narrow group of members. As in real life, some rules apply here - you will help a friend rather than a stranger, even if it means you may not have rewarded better post which is again a matter of subjective assessment.

This is definitely a higher level at which merits circulate, but it is only part of the process of selecting the best among us - not just in quality of their posts but also on some other characteristics that make them special, and perhaps we could use the term merit magnets

Time likely brings on more affinity to some people, although that may brush of after some time, so it’s not necessarily a constant function. As usual, we’ll find examples and counter examples of basically anything merit related, but meriting for the sake of a built-up relation should not be a core driver, but perhaps more an affinity for the type of content some people create. That’s why the more eyes on the game board, the better (and the more prone to objectivity).

Another thing I observed is that this merit system had led the forum members to create a group where they themselves exchange merit.  I don't say I disagree with it, actually, it is a good thing somehow since forum members have more interactions outside the forum and somehow build this camaraderie and trust atmosphere among themselves.  The negative side is that some of these people tend to be biassed towards other members that do not belong to their group.  I have seen lots of merit worthy topics and posts but garners less merit because this member is not known to them and they preserve  their smerit to their so-called "friends".

that's all true and the merit system has indeed affected the forum as a whole and a lot of individuals but not everyone. for many, the merit system was just an additional feature added to the forum they were using. of course most people are improving naturally over time.
for instance i can say that my behavior or personality or post quality has not changed with merit system. the only thing that changed was my ability to "upvote" posts that are valuable like i was doing on reddit or stackoverflow sites. and the annoyance of having to choose only a handful of posts to merit since i'm not a source and despite receiving a lot of merits i still find more posts to reward than i have smerit to spend.

+1
If we will take it logically, that is the goal of merit system. In order for the users to create quality post and contribute to the forum, avoid spam and shitposting. However, users must not take an advantage of the system. Posting to help others can be done without the aid of merit system.

The best thing to do in this forum is ignore the merit system and always look for learning, helping and contributing to the forum. If you made quality post that you may know and people doesn't satisfied with it, it's okay. As long as you helped and share the utmost ideas that you have, even without merits. For me, you are a good user of the forum. Ignore merits because merits will come for you if you really deserved it.

Do I say that it identifies our personality? No sir, what I am trying to point out here is that we are building our personality unknowingly because of merit system. Virtual and reality are two different space, you can be good here but not in real world. Besides, you have already personality even before you talk here. But the thing is that, the forum influences us because of merit system.

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BTW, thank you guys for your comments. I really appreciate your opinions about how merit system improves us.

Despite of some of my disagreement with you. I agree that if one user has a good intention to contribute to the community, and spend enough time and efforts to learn and help the others, they will be recognized sooner or later by the community. Recognition will be partially reflected on their received merits.

The main point I disagreed with you is the merit system does not identify our personality here. It motivates us to make more contributions, that's it.

I didn't see that effect in people, but it is true that I could not be paying enough attention and I was (wrongly) extrapolating my own attitude to others.
If you have seen people improving because of the merit system, I'm glad the system has that effect on people (or at least some of them).


I was also worried about this, but if that doesn't happens often, then it is OK.
I would love to know how things would be if this system wouldn't exist. I am always fascinated about social behaviour


Completely agree.

Every system, no matter how well conceived, has its weak points, which some manage to take advantage of. What you describe often happens, but it's not easy to judge if someone is asking a legitimate question/started a topic or it is just about "merit fishing". I agree that anyone trying to help others should know what they are actually writing about, because bad information is far more dangerous than no information at all.

When I just see how many alt accounts there are on this forum (which of course is not against the rules), which exchange merits among themselves, I wonder what is going on in their heads and what personality they develop. Yet they know very well that the only merits they can count on come from their alt accounts, and when airdropped merits dries up, only option is black market.

Unfortunately merit system also incentivizes a type of useless posting called "merit fishing", when people deliberately create posts with a sole goal of earning merit and not actually helping. It often takes form of deeply flawed guides or educational posts that do more harm than good by creating and spreading misconceptions. Luckily this doesn't happen often and I hope it won't be in the future.

It's true that the merit system have impact on our personality and many people improve or become knowledgeable because of it. I have seen several forum members which have low rank before and achieve higher rank when you look at it. Also, congratulations om your ranking up to Full Member which is one of the example that many newbies should see as the role model.

I've been browsing bitcointalk for around 3 years regularly, mainly as a source of information.

My experience and knowledge was usually overshadowed by more experienced people always willing to help others. I had helped others from time to time, of course, but I don't feel like my contribution to bitcointalk has
been meaningful so far.

I find the merit system very good for distinguish between helpers and non helpers. People you can usually trust. Beyond that, I have my doubts.
I am not entirely sure that people puts more time and effort in their posts just to get merit points. I believe that that has more to do with smoeone's personality. I think that people puts more time and effort into something if they get something back (like satisfaction for helping others). Merit points by themselves doesn't gives you anything. If you want merit points to have a social status, I believe that you could be more efficient at that with a good post than with 1000 merit points.

Just my thoughts..

I don't know what you mean by this but what I know is that personally, I do not merit users post based on rank here or try to help rank up and I think that's what others do too. When you post or create a good topic like this one, you get merited. Even low rank users merit legendary rank users which is the last rank here.

You've really made great points with your write up here and not just some merit post that forum starters creates to educate old members.

The only thing that has changed is that it is much harder than before to progress in the ranks, and that one part of the users thinks that it used to be much easier to get to a certain rank before that is the case now, and that is actually true. What many do not take into account is the fact that those who have been members of this forum since before the merit system did not have chance to get merits, but instead of that they are rewarded with airdropped merits for their current rank. Today we can see if someone is get those merits deservedly or not - so if someone is get 500 airdropped merits 2 years ago, and after that is managed to earn same amount after 2 years, such a member is worth something on this forum (at least in my opinion).

I have no doubt that the introduction of the merit system has also helped reduce shitposting, but much more is helped the stricter management of signature campaigns which are without a doubt the biggest motivator for which users post. I did not check how long are you member of this forum, but back in 2015/2016 some campaigns are only managed by bots, and this was a shitposting paradise.


On the other hand, it is a bit strange that one number in the profile actually represents how valuable or worthless someone is on this forum, especially if we take into account that there are a lot of members who write quality posts and are not rewarded for some reason.

From my point of view, the most important aspect of the merit system is that it has restricted spam and forced new members to try harder and write better posts.
The real question is actually whether and why the merit system matters, and for whom?
It seems to me that for a large number of forum members, the number of merits and forum rank is important solely because of participation in campaigns and earnings.
That's fine if it forces new members to try harder and write better and then we can talk about responsibility and creativity.
Merits also encourage corruption and the trading of merits in the forum (fortunately there are not many such examples and mainly such cases are quickly detected).
We can even say that the merit system is unfair to new members because it was introduced recently but there is no perfect and ideal system.
It seems to me that the merit system has played its part in this forum and rewarded those who are the best and are trying the most  and is a good indicator of everyone's contribution in this forum.

I’m not sure how far back in time the "before" goes, but I do find that there are redundant topics created with a certain recurrence. As I mentioned earlier on in another post, this is pretty much unavoidable, and there are plenty of circumstances that lead to that happening, although it’s not something too exasperating.

One thing that I do find that has space for improvement is actual dynamic dialogue, as opposed to a set of similar answers to a given OP.

Yes! I visited that thread also. Thank you for good reply. I think you are an example that merit system is not a hindrance to reach higher rank. I saw you before, you were full member. Look at now!

Well, they should think right now since many users here are aware of those beginners that has improvements rather than those spamming every thread specially bounty threads.
Btw, thank you for good feedback.

Don't misinterpreted the information sir! In that scenario, I did not talk about giving donations and making charities. Many higher rank user are helping newly users in ranking up by means of giving merit to their quality post. Since when we backtracked a year ago, no one cares with ranking system since you can goes up by activity only. Right now, we help other user to give their best shot by giving merit with their work.


Haha. Is merit discussion overrated?


As undisputed 2010 turbo said, "improvised, adapt and overcome". Human instinct always to adapt changes happening in our surroundings. So I think, even it ir really hard to catch up as long as we are determined, we can make it!


Hoping for that day to become like your rank. Well, I am sharing knowledge not just by means of merit (well, I have also interest in ranking up since I already woke up from a stagnant member rank) but I want also to share my knowledge even in a small manner.

Btw, thank you guys for sharing some smerit and replying my thread. I don't care about the numbers. But I am really happy because you and fillippone (one of the prodigy users in BTT) noticed my thread.

Another merit discussion but this one has a good explanation and it did adheres with the behaviour of every users.

A typical poster who read and understand forum rule will surely be included on the responsible group. Having said that, there are few times they may forgot some rules bound here resulting to temp ban, but that's okay. Learning from mistake is also part of growing up.

The other characteristic such as creativity, tech wise, and even social humanitarianism are all depends on users knowledge. Like there are who created a fund raising goal which shows that even on simple aspect they can provide assistance.

I like to increase my knowledge on technological aspect when it comes to bitcoin and I know I am slowly coping with it.

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_{Good explanation OP, Im sure you already gained some of those strenght you mentioned. Just continue what you started and youl become a high rank soon. But dont do it for merits. Do it to learn and help others.}

Decreased because some newbies stopped/quit but shitposting was never eliminated. You can still read similar posts from ranked members.

There were huge improvements but I still see some users who copy-paste posts for the sake of merits. They are lucky for receiving merit/s and not being banned.

I'm not sure if this is some positive or negative effect of the merit system. This sounds like members here are less humanitarian without the introduction of merits and that they are helping so they will be rewarded with merits.

The initiative to help community who were extremely affected by pandemic for example would still be there with or without the merit system.

Nice thread OP, it would be really great information to all of the newbies to create useful threads. I have seen so many threads of beginners and it seems like they don't really think we'll on creating a thread, they are just creating cause it's free to do so, but anyway, it is understandable because as what I said they are the only beginner and they don't even know some stuff in the crypto world.

Good thing is that you encourage most of them to create good posts, there are many things that merit system brings to us just like what you have said, but the main personality that has built with this merit system is the creativity for me because we are trying to create new posts that can be considered as useful posts, we tend to think deeply or creatively so we can get even one merit.

Well said OP, this is great stuff and this is the way to encourage newbie to engage different topics and make constructive posts. Many of us want to rank up and there are a lot of forum members proved that the merit system is not a barrier to achieve our goals, from zero merits up to Legendary rank (Who are they?). This means that the merit system was unleashed those evil motives here in the forum or let say a toxic one.

You can find more useful threads/topics from those high merits earner on this thread though, List of useful Threads!. Anyway, thank you for emphasizing the merit system in your thread, good job.

Objectives in making this thread:

• To show that merit system is in holistic approach
• To enumerate the different aspects that build in every user with the merit system
• To value the importance of merit system as an indovidual

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Isn't ironic how does the system changes us a lot? Way back 2017, when the system in this forum was implemented. A lot of rally, contrast and other suggestions had been made. Many were gone and many were stopped making an activity in the forum. However, there are still users that continue to fight and accepted the challenge of the new system. As time goes by, many users appear to be more effective in constructing quality post.

There is really a huge impact when merit came on. The spamming activity and shitposting gradually eliminated. Users became good in posting and helping the community. We engage in different activities and we show our care in everyone, unknowingly that we are also slowly developing our personality.

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These are the personality/behaviour/intelligence that develops in users within the Merit System:

• Mental Aspect/Knowledge

Of course, this is the primary aspect that develops to a user. A quality poster improves his way of replying or making thread since merit system requires a substantial (not copy pasted post) in order for to receive merits.
Various informative topics have been also made in different sections of this forum. So, as a reader, it helps us to collect, see and understand different views on a problem/situation. Our ideas also increases because there are users shared tips and techniques for a certain thing like these:
[overview] LoyceV's useful data on Bitcointalk - @LoyceV
Everything you wanted to know about BTC futures but were afraid to ask! - @fillippone

• Social Awareness/Humanitarianism

Many forum users become more humanitarian. Some legendaries/merit source give their helping hands to the noobs and user who just starting in bitcointalk. Before, there is no unity in the forum. If there was, only few. But right now, we are all helping others to get their deserve rank, specially those who are working and sharing a lot in this forum.

We talk a lot, give some helpful tips and strategies. Unlike before, wherein only spam posts and redundant topics will be seen for each thread. Nowadays, you will see that every user gives their effort to answer others problem.

We give our best just to help others, specially today that pandemic occurs in different parts of the world. Bitcointalk.org users take their part also to help using sigs and charities. These are some proofs about humanitarian act:
Project Covid-19 : An approach to support the Bitcoin community - @Royse777
Project Covid-19 Signature Campaign (Please update avatar and personal text) - @littlemouse
Bitcointalk Ranking-up pipeline- Those close to their next rank (lacking Merits) - @DdmrDdmr

• Technological Aspect

Three years ago when I started posting and reading in this forum. I always glanced with others post but it seems like only few threads help me to understand cryptography. In fact, I wandered in different sites and studied in my own way just to go with others thought. But unlike now, there are many, many threads will help you in terms of technology. Just like how to protect you from cyber attacks, how to unable your telegram from inviting and so on.

In my third year of staying in this forum, I really appreciated the tips that other user gave and shared. Some users are also translating threads in my own language (Filipino) which really help probably new users to know more about cryptocurrency in easiest way.
Some examples:

[TELEGRAM BOT] Merit, Trust List, etc. [INFORMATION] - @GreatArkansas

[GUIDE] How to Create a Strong/Secure Password - @GreatArkansas

• Responsibility

Because of the merit system, we are all become more responsible with our post. Though there are some that crossed some rules here, many users are still responsible about their posting. Because of merit system, spamming and shitposting lessen. Paid shillers gradually eradicated. Each users are giving their best shot to detect and search for cheaters and scammers. Well, this is really the main point of having a merit system.

But look at now, everybody who wants to earn a merit will make a quality post. We become more responsible as we give details, citing references and reducing the redundant replies.

• Creativity

In my local board (Pilipinas), there are users who innovated the way of posting. They gave some tips and strategies in order to make a thread creative. Just like using colored headings, citing the summary and viewpoint of the thread, showing a vividly images and making a title which is catchy.
^{Thanks for cabalism, great arkansas, maus, finalshot and mk4. Just to mention them because they are helping lower rank in making a creative post.}

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Because of merit system, quality posts have been created. We are all helping each other and building our potential capabilities at its max. I believe that those cancers have been died in the forum and quality poster remains unstoppable. If we become a quality poster, we just not help this forum but we help ourselves to bring out the best that we can be.

Merit system is holistic approach. It does not just build the forum itself, it builds everyone in this forum.

Long live, bitcointalk.org