Topic: Disputes and drama from the BTCFPGA thread (Read 5173 times)

perhaps this one - it is one of my favorites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RyImt-lREs

I think it bears mentioning that a A shill is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that he has a close relationship with that person or organization. Calling Josh, or anyone else openly associated with BFL, a shill, is a non-sequitur

I wholeheartedly agree  - I am surprised (perhaps I missed it) that I have not seen "I know what you are but what am I" thrown out. There is so much vitriol being spewed out by certain members that any substantive point is lost in the persistent Ad Hominem and Ad Personam attacks.

+1

Anyone who is in a position to have a good lawyer for business purposes. I definitely do. Although mine is pro bono, gmax might have a retainer to look after all the legal documentation he receives for his business dealings. It's pretty simple actually.

Also, you felt the need to flex and say you have made a college and police department to settle? Classy.

More Cowbell 

As someone not actively involved in the whole FPGA / ASIC world, except on a cursory level, I might interject that I find all this bickering and whatnot most distasteful and reflects poorly on all parties.

As potentially the biggest business venture related directly to bitcoin to date, that's a shame.

Bread and Circus.

Subscribed. I will be amazed if this goes anywhere. Pure entertainment.

This thread needs more strippers.

And no, that doesn't mean Inaba. Eww. Sorry, man.. but ewww. Lol.

the shill is back, with a vengeance.

Why I'm even bothering to respond, I don't really know. But, against my better judgement...
I wouldn't be surprised, given its content.

I believe that was me. I initially split off some posts from the BTCFPGA thread and called it "BFL's shills". Then, I noticed that the content there was a direct continuation of the content here, so I merged the threads. The renaming must have happened during the merge, although I don't see how it isn't an accurate description of the thread...

I would absolutely pay the attorney instead of using a mail forwarding service, because mail forwarding services wouldn't respond to the letters in strongly-worded legalese on my behalf and provide legal advice about what to do about the letter, especially since the only mail going there is related to a legal issue.

Who wants to bet this posting gets removed?


@ gmaxwell, you dishonorable, rumor fomenting, pathological liar. gmaxwell, you changed the thread name to 'BFL's shills' when I made a comment to you saying I didn't agree with it's name. You changed the thread name again I suppose because it showed how hypocritical you are. If you didn't change the thread name, which I believe is unlikely, then the moderator that did should come forward and say it was them that changed the thread name to 'BFL's shills'.

gmaxwell, I don't think your qualified to be moderator any longer because of starting unfounded rumors with no basis in fact, implying I'm a "crazy counter-agent", as one example. You are just starting rumors for your own justifications and you can see their affect in this thread. Additionally for making threats of legal action when my actions were clearly in line with the fair use doctrine (17 U.S.C. § 107) for commenting, education and news. Not to mention how you apply different standards to different people. And now because gmaxwell as moderator has access to my IP address and email address, I have to worry about a virus sent via email and gmaxwell scanning and attacking my computer when I connect to this forum.

But maybe the operators of Bitcointalk condone gmaxwell's actions.


So now I am going to post our conversation gmaxwell for the community to comment on.









Notice how I say "this conversation is now over" and yet gmaxwell continues to contact me. gmaxwell is engaging in the very harassment he says I shouldn't do.

So after some research I was able to find a law firm that occupies the building address gmaxwell provided me, so I tried to call his lawyer to clear this issue up. After repeatedly calling I could only get an answering machine. There were two occasions where someone picked up the phone and placed me on hold, never saying anything, and never came back.

And sense when does an attorney become a mailman? They don't, they just have the mail delivered to their office and hold it there until it is picked up by the client or forward it to their client. But I do concede that gmaxwell's attorney might be so poor he requires an errand boy's job to make ends meet. I think the more simple answer is that gmaxwell is lying.

Let me ask the community a question. If the average attorney charges $500 per hour and it takes five minutes to check a P.O. box, would you pay $41.66 per day, $833.33 per month or would you just use a mail forwarding service at your post office costing $15.25 per week?

The twilight of the idols is now.

This is all sooooooo ridiculous and childish. So how bout' this......my dad can beat up your dad. Some people need to get a life.

  Where's my "gold star"   

      

Ah! I tried my darndest to figure it out prior to penning the friendly post to Josh. Thanks, Una...

The majority of this thread was moved here from Tom's thread,so its not in proper sequence,so to speak  

FYI, Inaba: This thread is only 2 pages currently.

or everything might be a distraction from BFL.

/tinfoil

One of the very few places that still define the word shill is Nevada Gaming Commission Control Board:


I'm not aware of any recent rulings. But around 2000 there was a ruling about shilling on the trade show "World Gaming Expo" for the purpose of creating traffic in an exhibition booth. They were hiring women strippers to wear the business suits and show up in the booth and ask questions. They were ruled to be shills, regardless of what they were displaying on the badge or the business card.

Ok, so by your infallible logic, what am I shilling for?  What, in the past 10 pages have I written to the detriment of Tom's offering?  Oh look, nothing... so again I ask you, how can I be a shill if I'm not promoting (or detracting) any given product?  

I'm simply "debating" with idiots, since it doesn't require a lot of effort (I use the term "debating" very loosely, since it's actually impossible to hold a real debate with people who don't even understand the definition of the words they use.).  The only time I post in this thread is when someone posts blatantly false information and I correct them... then people like yourself, cedivad and especially Syke decide to chime in about something completely irrelevant to the topic at hand and here we are, discussing nothing of import. All the while I get to enjoy the machinations of Syke et al trying to play in the deep end of the gene pool, flailing around and drowning themselves.  If it weren't so amusing watching posts like yours trying to twist logic and common sense all in a knot to make some tortured point, believe me, I wouldn't be doing it.  It's a soap opera and a train wreck all in one, it's hard to stop watching you crash over and over.  

I did not imply you are a known BFL employee, for anybody who has joined the conversation in the last 30 days, there have been no posts from BFL_Josh, your last post was the 5th of October. Nor your .sig or profile gives background information that you talk for BFL.

And don't get me started about shills, I work a lot at trade shows and it's a common trick for an employe of a company to wander around posing as a visitor and when he sees a potential customer, he starts showing interest in the same product and talks it up to convince the potential buyer ("My mother has one just like this at home and she is very happy").
It's not because all the other vendors around it see this happen all day long and they know that he is working for the company, that the potential buyer knows he is employed. For this buyer, the employe is a shill.


So now every visitor has to go and check out the hundreds of posts you did in the last weeks to see who you are? If you work and talk for BFL and feel like trolling other vendors, you should mention it in your profile. Just like with "Scammer tags" we could get you a "BFL Troll" tag, I'm sure that would clear up a lot of things. 

We should establish a turing test for him. Most of his replies look automatic and self-repeating.

If BFL was quoted on a stock exchange I would short you.

Seriously guys, how can you go on this way?

Again, you seem to have trouble with reality.  You have absolutely no idea as to what my motivations are, so quit spewing your BS everywhere.  Please, just stop being an idiot for 24 hours, see if you are capable of that.  I seriously want to see if you can go 24 hours without putting fingers to keyboard to make a proclamation about something you have absolutely no clue about.

Let me put it a different way, and provide a lesson in adult interactions while not accusing Inaba of any particular motive, which I cannot guess with certainty.

Inaba,
Generally when I see employees of vendors that I work with in forums and blogs, they make a point of showing their potential conflict of interest, and are up front about the fact that these are their personal opinions when appropriate. You have a historical post I saw that explained the difference between the accounts, but it's impossible to find unless you know where to look, a link to this in your signature might be nice. At a minimum I recommend at least a brief disclaimer (I work for BFL but speak for myself?) to assure that we don't have confusion by someone working on post number 6 or something.

Thanks everyone,

Back to our regular show?

Some people know. But there are plenty of other readers of this forum which are not aware. You don't list it in your sig. You don't list it in your profile. You don't even post as BFL_Josh any more. In the past month you've posted roughly 250 posts as Inaba, and 0 as BFL_Josh.


You're doing it right now by not using your BFL account. You're hoping some people won't notice the BFL affiliation. And you're right. Some people don't know.

If I'm a known BFL employee, then I by default can not be a shill.  Please learn the definition of the words you use before you try to use them.  I'm sure it was cute when you were 10 and tried to use big words, but it's not cute when you are a (seemingly) adult and trying to hold an adult conversation... it just makes you look stupid.

I have never tried to hide my employment with BFL and everyone in this thread knows I am employed as such.

what if mesarah is inaba's alt account?

does that mean mesarah is paid by bfl?

/tinfoilhat

I strongly agree with this. Most members posting here are unlikely to be unaware of social and professional ties any prominent members of the community hold.

While obvious disclosure is nice, it should be no means be a requirement.

Edit: I'm also updating the FAQ more at the moment

FWIW, BFL wrote me to say:  "Mesarah has nothing to do with BFL and I would appreciate it if such a connection wasn't implied by the moderators of bitcointalk",  and thats a request I think is completely reasonable.

For all I know MeSarah is some kind of crazy counter-agent that is maximally obnoxious in BFL's apparent favor just to make BFL look bad.  Then again, I have to say I also would have had the opinion about Inaba's posts in the last month, so take my crazy conspiracy theory guesswork for what it is: Not terribly reliable.

Frankly, the kind of trouble I've seen people cause is the sort that comes only from seeing the misfortune of others, of creating argument and drama, and not from promoting one interest or another. Chaos has no affiliation but its own.

In general we should judge participants in our community by their own actions and not by those of their sometimes unfortunate supporters.  I've certainly had my share of moments cringing at some of the agreement I've received.

Inaba doesn't qualify to be called a shill: its public hes a BFL employee.

He can't be a shill, he is a known employee.

Josh, you *are* a paid BFL shill. If you are talking as a BFL employe, please use your other BFL Josh account. And answer the questions on the other threads that you are trying to dodge...

Please excuse this intrusion into Tom's thread, but BFL keeps getting brought up as being responsible for any negative post against Tom.  Aside from Tom & Inaba's personal sparing, BFL has no bad feelings for bASIC.  We welcome Tom, Avalon and others into the market and look forward to friendly competition.  It will only benefit the consumers and the bitcoin community overall.

For the record...  Mesarah has nothing to do with BFL and we don't appreciate the mudd slinging.  

There's been well over a year of pleasure trolling at our expense and with moderator involvement.  This has had a negative impact on the value of these forums.  We've tried not to engage it and as a result have mostly left the forums to take their own course.  I think most people would agree with me that the signal to noise ratio has worsened considerably as a result.

Please be fair when that crowd think takes on other targets...   and don't assume BFL is the source.  We're not.  Having the moderators carry this assumption forward is doubly bad.  With a fair approach, we can restore the value of these forums, but it's going to take some effort and fresh thinking.

Syke, again you fail Jr. High School vocabulary.  So sad.  Please learn basic English before engaging me in the future, thanks!

Then what are you? You are employed by BFL, yet your sig and user profile are conspicuously absent of any mention of your employer. Yet here you are again, defending, and even speaking for BFL. If you're not going to post as BFL_Josh, then you're nothing more than a shill yourself, which makes your statement above false.

Please stop spreading FUD.  BFL does not now nor has it ever employed shills.  Furthermore, I'm getting really sick of the rhetoric about where BFL's funding comes from.  You know exactly nothing about BFL's finances, so please stop talking like you know anything.   Unless you can provide some proof to back up your BS, stop spreading it, especially being a moderator... or is there actually some validity to the bias accusations?

PS - the burden of proof is on YOU.  You're the one making the accusation.

Funny, I didn't mention which trolls I was talking about or who might be paying them.  I'm glad you could help people with your opinions on the subject.


You are very thoroughly confused about the law. But hey, feel free to send me the contact information for your attorney.  Mine wouldn't mind having a word with yours.


Please provide hyperlinks. Note, I have not authorized and do not authorize public duplication of my writing. If you wish to make private copies for whatever purpose be my guest.

And as I previously directed— I would remove your posts if you continued to repeat the same material and I have done so, as promised... but your post was too funny to delete completely.

BFL is the only company that can afford shills, using all that investor money to do it. Prove you're not a BFL shill by providing an order receipt from a major BFL alternative.


The irony here is Theymos could consider what you just said a threat of legal action against himself and preemptively sue you.

EDIT: Damn, he got banned.

@ gmaxwell, you have no proof that BFL is, paying these trolls, as you put it and insinuating so is libelous. Sarcasm is not protected speech like parody is. gmaxwell sense the Bitcointalk forum has given you moderator status that makes you a legal agent for Bitcointalk and makes Bitcointalk liable for your comments. Bitcointalk has no Terms of Service that would insulate it from your comments and thus no protection from libelous statements made by it's moderators. gmaxwell, you have taken away Bitcointalk's safe harbor on this issue. Don't worry I took a screen shot and uploaded to the internet where it's date can be easily verified. Your statement gmaxwell surely shows your inability to remain impartial as a moderator. You don't have a problem with people asking if BFL is engaging in criminal activity but you sure do have a problem when people ask if BTCFPGA.com / BitcoinASIC.com is engaging in criminal activity.

Lets clear the air and get this strait, I am not a BFL employee, an acquaintance of an employee, an acquaintance of an investor in BFL or have any formal relations with BFL or it's investors.


@ ChipGeek, yeah and in the same box the Bitscope shipped in, came a 12 meter anechoic faraday cage but I had to provide my own power supply. And because it was a kit I had to assemble myself, I did not have to meet FCC testing lab regulations to verify and certify digital devices that use frequencies between 9kHz and 3,000,000MHz consuming 6nW or more for FCC compliance. And no I am not accepting new customers, so don't ask.


@ MasterX, that is correct. There was more than one person in the conversation, and it was Tom.


@ Tom, did I say I was letting anyone of the hook? I started with you Tom because your FPGA product is the one with the most obvious design flaws of any competitor you have. I control how this is going to play out not you Tom nor anyone on this forum. One thing you know is that all of your competitors are reading this thread. You can be assured they are evaluating their own position. Tom, one thing I found interesting was how easily you pointed to your peers to take the heat off of yourself, like a child caught stealing candy and pointing to his friends and saying "but they stole candy too."

Tom, when you stated that you'll contact the FCC, to find out what changes we need to make, you tacitly admitted that you failed to comply with FCC regulations. I can now say with the utmost certainty that your product violates FCC regulations and that you have violated 47 USC § 501 and this posting might be used against you in a court of law, these are my beliefs. I am using this posting to memorialize the facts.

Tom, when I suggested to you to stop delivering to US customers, get a lawyer and contact a testing lab you thought I was 'trolling' you, when in actuality I was trying to help you. The more products you deliver to US customers the harsher the penalties levied against you will be. But Tom your so hyper defensive all you could think was that someone was trying to destroy your business, because you couldn't see the truth in front of you. Maybe that's because that is your attitude towards your competitors. In the coming days, weeks and months you will come to realize just how valuable my advice was to you. I wonder if you will have the honor and courage to start a new thread with a public apology to me when I am proven right, and to BFL for insinuating they were behind my statements, but I think your too cowardice to do so. This forum and I will be watching for the measure of your charter.

Tom, if you feel anything that I have said in this posting is libelous I eagerly encourage you to sue me. I dare you to sue me. Hell I demand you sue me. But I think you wont because your afraid of the boomerang law suit.

So now I will stop helping you.

Buy ModMiner Quads from BTCFPGA.com and buy your ASCIs from BitcoinASIC.com ..

Spend as much money as you can afford especially if your a US citizen. Deplete your savings, max out your credit cards, get a loan on your car title, barrow money from as many family members as you can and buy as many items as you can afford from Tom and his companies. Cancel all your orders with other vendors and buy exclusively from BTCFPGA.com and BitcoinASIC.com ..

The more products you buy from BTCFPGA.com and BitcoinASIC.com the greater the warm and fuzzy feeling you'll have.  Okay, maybe you'll feel cooler if your currently running a bunch of GPUs. You deserve to treat your self to a BTCFPGA.com and BitcoinASIC.com purchase because you're special, (not in the short school bus way).


@ DiabloD3, fuq'n try to get me banned. Show us just how tyrannical you can act because you're an angry bastard moderator. I only refer to you as an angry bastard because that's how you refer to yourself. Banning me would only serve to push me towards other avenues to express my beliefs where there would be no discussion and no chance for Tom to defend himself. And DiabloD3 don't fuq'n lump me in with BFL just because my signature contains a BFL contest signature. BFL and their contestants have no responsibility for my beliefs. DiabloD3 I wonder if you'll have the fuq'n courage to ban the shills with BTCFPGA.com and BitcoinASIC.com in their signatures, would you? Let us see you state publicly that you will treat Tom's contestants the same way. I'm willing to bet DiabloD3 that your too biased in favor of Tom's and his contestant to treat them the same way and actually ban them. DiabloD3 sense your so willing to lump in those that have nothing to do with my beliefs then hear this loud and clear. It would be a shame if Tom's international customers don't get their orders because Tom's products do not meet the regulations of the order's destination country and are turned back by custom authorities. Canada, Mexico, EU, Australia, New Zealand, China and other counties all have similar regulations as the FCC. In at least one of those counties the importer will get fined if customs rejects an unauthorized electronic device.

How do you like them fuq'n apples. There is a quote from a movie that goes something like, "If they put one of yours in to the hospital then put one of theirs in to the morgue." I still have many arrows in my quiver, I have yet to use the nuclear option(s). Push me, please.

Note, fuq is pronounced with a long sounding U, similar to fuschia.

@ theymos, gmaxwell, DiabloD3, and other moderators, the specter of at least three court cases have been raised in this posting in addition to an admission of guilt to a criminal offence. Editing or removing this post might be considered tampering with or destruction of evidence. You might consider consulting with a lawyer before editing or removing this post to avoid possible criminal sanctions. theymos, you might want to implement a ToS that is easily accessible to the public.

@ Tom, scrubbing your postings might incur criminal sanctions, you know there are screen shots.

Tom, you know whats nice about being older and educated? College friends that are now lawyers to help you avoid pitfalls. The entirety of my words in this posting are solely my beliefs.

The twilight of the idols is now. Tom, you have been rope-a-doped for treating me like a, to use your words, 'troll', when all I was doing was trying to help you.