Topic: Ditching US dollar (Read 520 times)

In today's world, it is indeed difficult for economic problems to carry out trade without the US dollar, but the most that can be reduced is of course the presence of BRICS will have a big impact on the US economic cycle because world countries will be more able to be independent. The formation of BRICS, with many countries abandoning the US dollar, has a lot of influence. of their country's dependence so that the dollar still dominates the world market.

And can you give me a list of countries that really want to abandon the dollar ?
Please provide a list of 3 columns:
- Country name
- GDP of the country
- Percentage of world GDP ?

It will be very interesting to discuss this list, because I can guess who you would like to put there, but.... There are nuances there that are easy to check and make sure they don't want to abandon the dollar

Very much looking forward to the list

Of course the presence of BRICS will have a big impact on the US economy, the dollar will weaken because many countries want to abandon the dollar. However, for me personally as an Asian, I really agree with the birth of Brics because countries in the world can be more independent in determining the economy in their own country and are no longer afraid of America and Europe. because it is under a new umbrella, namely BRICS.

I also believe the world has changed over time. The US will not dominate the world forever. China is getting bigger. Many figures say that China will become a world superpower in the future.

Ditching the US$

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/040915/countries-use-us-dollar.asp

65 countries use the US Dollar, and a dozen wants to rely less on it.
Calling that ditching is highly delusional.

The misconception is strong enough. And easily provable in terms of being delusions
1. Iran is a major supplier of oil. But Iran behaves "decently" in the market and does not try to engage in economic terrorism, as for example Russia tried to do. Because it understands perfectly well that Iran's economy depends VERY much on its sales, so it tries not to "get into trouble"

2. russia is indeed one of the largest owners of oil and gas reserves. BUT. After the second stage of the terrorist war unleashed against Ukraine, Russia has lost almost all of its European gas market (more than 90% of what it had before 2022), and is forced to sell oil at huge discounts to China and India. And for illiquid currency. The truth "in public" describes how much they earn. Even though even official Russian ministers are squealing about the fact that, for example, the revenues of the oil and gas sector have fallen from 30 to 60%, and the remainder of production should be reoriented to the domestic market, since there is little room to sell them. you can even read the official reports of the Central Bank of russia, there are many interesting things about the "stability of the economy". 

The stability of the Iranian economy is best told by their local currency, which became "the most useless currency in the world" by the end of 2023 ...

The only thing that Iran and Russia have in common is terrorism, which is what they both got sanctions for, and also that both countries need ... DOLLAR :

Iran and Russia are really significant players in the global oil market in my opinion.They both have oil and natural gas mines and extensive oil reserves and are major exporters of oil and natural gas. Even after America's economic sanctions, they have proved themselves economically strong to the whole world. What they did not only say through words but also proved through acts
Iran faces economic challenges, including sanctions that have affected its oil exports and overall economic performance. On the other hand, Russia has a diversified economy with oil and gas as important components, and is a member of the BRICS group (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) which represents the main emerging national economies.
The dynamic nature of geopolitics and the global economy and the current economic situation in both Iran and Russia, as well as their evolving relationship and Iran's potential participation in BRICS, has given the US a tough economic warning that is a real concern for the US dollar.

I think the introduction of the BRICS currency instead of the dollar in the world market will not be an easy journey for the BRICS countries. Efforts by the BRICS countries to use the BRICS currency instead of the dollar in global markets have been ongoing for a long time. As new countries join the BRICS alliance, the debate between BRICS countries is also increasing. So I think, BRICS will not be able to achieve its goals in this situation. If BRICS really wants to achieve its goals, BRICS countries should rethink. Considering if they can correct themselves then maybe the BRICS currency can influence the dollar. However, almost all countries of the world depend on the US dollar and the dollar is still dominating the world market. Breaking the dollar's hegemony in world markets is a "matter" of major challenges for the BRICS.

I absolutely agree with you! But I’ll add on my own behalf - when people unite for creation and a common goal, they can find compromises if they have different cultures, histories, religions, skin colors, traditions... If the goal is development, progress, creation - you can “put aside” disagreements . In general, BRICS was originally created as an alliance outside of other alliances, and it consists of countries that are not members of large economic associations such as the EU, or some kind of alliance of the USA/Canada/Britain/Australia. And in general, the BRICS participants could continue to develop their economies and mutually beneficial cooperation... But some decided to start manipulation... In my opinion, in this format, BRICS will not be able to achieve its goals. The solution is to either throw out the “toxic” participants or create a new union

It has both good and bad sides.  It is useful for Russia and Iran but they need to introduce this currency in the world market. Otherwise it will be difficult for them to do business. Their currency should be recognized like dollar otherwise how many natives or theirs will use this currency.  It is difficult but if you try it will definitely become easier to get familiar with.  If this can be implemented, their costs will be reduced and their own recognition will be increased.  However, it will be very difficult to make it popular around the world because most of the countries believe in the dollar.

It always has a big impact against the US economy and that's why they are doing all things to revert back the countries that are ditching their dollar.

I've read it from someone that in China, it's a total obvious. Most citizens have only a few choice to pay their things.

Cash, alipay, wechatpay and the other Chinese payment processing apps if I've missed one.

Not idea what that reform could be, by the way. Besides the different geopolitical objectives of the members of the BRICS, one must also keep in mind the traditional and cultural differences between those states, again, they are too heterogeneous. It is not like the United States or the European Union, they have had decades of association and opportunities to find common objectives. Actually, there will be topics on where the BRICS may not be able to get together towards a coordinated effort. For example, the energy transition.
Russia is one of the biggest countries by reserves of gas and energy in general, while China is trying to get dominance over the market of electrical vehicles and renewable energy generation. Obviously, those are two models of energy generation which will sooner or later collide. China could try to take over the market of electrical cars in India and both China and India being the main consumers of energy within BRICS, it would translate to a existential threat against the Russian economy in the long term.

That is only one example, there are more which are less obvious.

That doesn't sound bad, but there's a nuance. The nuance is in the PURPOSE of the participants. If India really had an interest in creating an economic union, to obtain economic benefits in the region, China - only personal benefit, which tried to realize through the "hype" of the slogan "abandon the dollar!", but according to the Chinese idea - further followed "yuanization", under the slogan of "single currency"..... But the plan to "save the Chinese economy at the expense of the pockets and economies of the members of the union" failed. And now that there are problems among the BRICS members (India-China, Russia-India, Russia-China, Argentina, ....) it seems to me that it is difficult to unite them not only by a common currency but also as a full-fledged union. Because some of them have already shown that they will "pull the blanket over themselves" ignoring the interests of other participants. So most likely BRICS is waiting for "reforming"

Your opinion of other countries has nothing to do with ditching the dollar or economy for that matter.

The economic crisis of 2008 was caused exactly because of what the US banking system was doing which is the definition a Ponzi scheme. The worst part is that it was not and still is not the only case of Ponzi scheme...

Well that is shortsighted at best.
I have seen a little of the world and many pariah states deserve that title.

Countries where judicial and executive are one and the same are exactly that.

The financial turmoil in 2008 was due to excesses and a lax executive control.
Some go that far to say that was due to politics benefitting from it.

Most accusations lack sources though, so they are gossip, not more nor less.

US has not have stability for a very long time. Its economy has also been too fragile, basically ever since they turned into a Ponzi scheme; we saw its fragility in 2008 and those who woke up created an an exit called Bitcoin. Now more people are waking up and are making another centralized exit called BRICS.

Of course any country that seeks to "ditch the dollar" becomes a pariah state in the eyes of the printers of the dollar

One word: Petrodollar

This clearly helps because from the start Russia had prepared this plan long ago, and why it all started when it attacked Ukraine. At that time many  people thought that Russia would experience an economic  crisis as a result of wasting its aggressive costs but up to now they appear to be getting stronger and more transparent in opposing the US Dollar. Meanwhile Iran in this case still doesn't like the US, which has always  interfered in its affairs in the past. With Russia of course Iran will  benefit because it is pushing their goal of creating a new currency with a system that is not  tied to the dollar. Capitalizing on natural  resources which play an important role in various  countries is able  to pressure them to take new payment options.

Is the US threatened? In general whether we admit it or not, we feel threatened and will lose sources of support from  various countries that  are moving from the dollar to the new currency that BRICS is creating. Don't think that the US is fine and is still thought to be able to cover this up.

Why do I have the feeling that this is old news from 2022? Everybody knows that Russia and Iran are anti-USA. Ditching the US dollar seems like common sense for those two countries, especially after all the western sanctions, that were imposed over both Russia and Iran.
Will this move help both countries? I don't think that it will have any major impact over their economies. The economies of Russia and Iran will be fine with or without the US dollar.
Will this move have any impact over the US dollar? I guess that it might have a small negative impact. The US dollar won't collapse anytime soon, but it's role in global trading will decrease slowly.

I don't know whether this movement will help both countries or not but the US dollar still dominates the economy today. It's hard to throw away the US dollar when the US is as powerful as it is now.
It might work for local trade but it might not be easy for international trade because other countries still use the US dollar as a benchmark for payment in many businesses.
Maybe this won't have a bad impact on the US dollar because there are still many countries that use the US dollar. But if more countries will ditch the dollar, the US must find a way to get through it.
However, if more countries do it, it will slowly disturb the US dollar. If the US doesn't realize it, it will impact the US.
We'll see what the impact of what Iran and Russia will have.

I think you understand what I am saying, but I am more referring to the new ruler who will dominate the global market, not about CBDC, but that is a narrative that will be built on the same schedule in the current global transition.

But at the core what I mean is that the strongest ruler of the world economy, which is currently the US with its dollar, will try as hard as possible to maintain its position, on the other hand when they will experience defeat or shift as the leader of the global economy with its dollar, basically the dollar will no longer be in demand. And when it is replaced with a new ruler, it is likely that the US will rebel which may create conflict, just as the Soviet Union as the strongest and most powerful country before it could be defeated. and that was through the process of war conflict. and something like this has the potential to happen again, as the new power that will replace the US and its fiat money system (dollar) so far.

The countries included in BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) are trying to gain independence from the US dollar which is the reserve currency the US dollar being the reserve currency benefits the USA a lot greater than we think because they are the reserve currency of course they have lower exchange rate and additionally they also have a really strong purchasing power

De-dollarization has been going on for a few years back and with greater progress this will definitely hit USA’s economy however this de-dollarization is happening very slowly so right now there is still no concrete effect that we can see in the USA

This de-dollarization attempt by the BRICS countries have been around for years, but it has only recently been aggresively pushed by some of the countries in BRICS.

One of the major reasons why they are pushing for it are the sanctions from the West (including the USA) .. so these countries wants to ditch SWIFT payments to bypass the restrictions that are applied to their international transactions. 

I would guess that it is not really going to work out in the end because the whole world structure is based on the dollar. Like when you are considering what the barrel of an oil is, do you really consider it in any other currency? You talk about it in dollar terms, that's just the reality and we need to consider that as the most important thing.

I personally believe that we need to consider dollar as there to stay and not going to leave anytime soon. And the only way dollar would not be used as the biggest currency, would not come from other nations, it would only be possible if the empire falls within itself, you do not attack and defeat an empire, you let it destroy itself and then slowly it will destroy itself overtime, so USA would tell you when dollar is bad.

The decreasing dominance of the US dollar is constantly on the agenda, and the US dollar completely dominated the markets in previous years. Now the countries in BRICS will abandon the dollar for trade, perhaps other states will follow suit. Many people say that the US dollar will become worthless in the very near future. The US dollar will definitely be affected by this situation, but the important thing is how much it will be affected.

They could use the $ and their homebrew Currency.
Why only use one?

They have already tried two currencies right? Maybe I'm wrong and it is just one currency but my point is, if they want to create a new power by combining these countries, then currency should not be an issue if it is not a native currency used by one particular country. Chinese Yuan and Indian rupee has already been used for the transactions and it didn't work out. And if they are trying to create a new power, they won't stop trying which will be the best. Maybe an entire new currency backed by something else.
At this point, whether you like it or not it has become a trial and error concept already. Maybe not the first try but the second try they will come back after doing everything perfectly. It's just how I think and it does not have to be 100% accurate. It could also play out the way you have described it. So let's see what the future holds for them.

Good luck ditching the widely used currency for global markets because doing so would effectively shut them out of a lot of countries that won't compromise to their preferred currency, isn't that what's going to happen to them right? They have less countries to trade with if they ditch US dollar. Also, if they ever do that, wouldn't US Foreign Affairs or some US agency that deals with this will do their work on trying to make sure that this plan would be a failure for those that's going to participate right? One thing that I know about US is that it's got a really good foreign policy measures so I know that this isn't going to go as smoothly as planned.

Conflicts are definitely coming and some may say the current instability around the world is just a symptom of this, so we cannot really expect to see some kind of orderly transition from the current system to a new one, assuming it were to happen soon.

Besides we do not know what that new system will entail, as if there is any indication it does not seems as if governments want to leave the fiat system behind and this is simply a battle to see who is at the top, but even if the system changed it is unlikely we will move towards something that benefited the people, and instead we may see even more restrictions imposed upon us with the use of CBDCs.

India, China and Brazil could singlehandlely synchronize their economies and their centrals banks to create the BRICS currency and only them being allowed to control the supply of the FIAT while the rest of the members get strong enough to benefit from it. China's problem would be that they cannot allow their official currency to gain much value, otherwise they would lose competitivity in the international manufacturing markets, I am sure the rest of the BRICS would not feel happy about China devaluing their common currency for the sake of then own competitivity, because of it, it is very unlikely China will replace the Yuan. If China does not use the new currency then it would be fair to say we would be talking about a project without a real porpuse if one of the biggest members of the organization won't even give use to their initiative of FIAT.
Because of things like that is why I highly doubt we will ever see that new FIAT soon and the hegemony of the American dollar will continue for many years. Even if some gold backed currency appeared, that initiative would still require trust in the gold reserves, which not all countries have.

The US. dollar has its purchasing power decreases over time. However, is it make this fiat currency worse than other fiat currencies from other central banks?



There is nothing wrong to make trials and errors to dedollarisation because some nations want to build up something which can be tools for them to break the domination of USA. and its fiat currency. Will the succeed or fail, with BRICS is a biggest attempt so far, we will see it in future like next 10 years?

To succeed, those nations participate in the attempt must have their strong economy. China and Russia are one of countries with big economy sizes but I disagree if saying their economies are sustainable and strong. China is affected by deflation which is worse than inflation and Russia solely relies on their income from oil sales and energy industry.

Some of these countries are not just experimenting, they have tried several times in the past years and they are working seriously by continuing to recruit countries that are fed up with having the dollar for various reasons. They are using new things like using their local currency for transactions, and the Yuan is being offered among the BRICS as a means of transaction.

Replacing the top of the economic chain is not an easy thing to do in just a few years, they need a long time and need a lot of effort to reach the highest level as the top economy and dominate the global economy with a new payment system and tool to become a global currency that is considered better than before.

To be honest, there is something that I am afraid of in global movements like this, judging from every century of leadership transitions as the ruler of the world, always the highest country will not be willing to give up its throne just like that, this will cause conflicts that can trigger major conflicts like before. I have noticed that political tensions are heating up, and countries are increasingly showing their strength to each other.

Actually, I am not sure whether it is about trial and error, when comes to macroeconomics and issuing a currency which is supposed to gain more trust than the United States Dollar then the BRICS is supposed to plan and execute all in the perfect way, behave they may have not another opportunity to try. Because what would happen if the tried once and people would not trust and rejected the idea of their currency because they did something wrong? If the BRICS members tried againz then the trust would be already lost and even fewer nations (non-members) would be willing to give BRICS' currency a chance.

I would be willing to speculate that not even in this incoming year the BRICS will issue their currency, they are either trying to recruit more members or they realize their are such a heterogenous group of countries that a common currency would not benefit them as much as people believe.

It's all about trial and error. If they really want to replace the US dollar, they will have to come up with something new and they will have to use it and find out what's lacking in that. They can achieve success after many trials and fixing the errors. It's not going to be a easy journey. But if they really want, they can be successful.
Don't get me wrong, the US dollar is still dominating the whole world. But power speaks for itself. BRICS is recruiting more countries. If they all come together to create a new power, I think they can success. But that's still a big if.

My guess is that there won't happen much. The US stands for stability, or at least for more stability than the BRICS States.

BRICS States are a club of paria States. Their wheeling and dealing is not that big. Take away China and BRICS is nowhere near their numbers.
Why do you think it is trillions of $ in trades?

South Africa is having not even 1% of the trade: https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-country/usa/partner/zaf

That's a weird percentage you came up with lol
In any case BRICS and its currency has nothing to do with "citizens" and their day to day medium of exchange. None of them are using dollar today and they won't start using BRICS currency in the future either.

BRICS currency is something meant for international trades on very large scales (trillions of dollars) between countries that is currently taking place using dollar. That is why its creation will have a negative impact on US dollar as it will lose its demand and with dollar's massive circulating supply and US unimaginable national debt the dollar value could crumble.

In my view, this will weaken the dollar and this is the aim of the BRICS itself. A very good strategy, weakening the US is not through war, simply by suppressing the dominance of the US dollar, then US dominance will also decrease because its economy will weaken. It is possible that the BRICS countries consider dollar domination to be the same as colonialism, especially since recently America has seemed arrogant and treated unfairly towards countries other than Nato.

I consider this a mutual progress, it should have been from the beginning, so that there would be no pressure to suppress interests because they control the world currency. But it would be even better if you used bitcoin or gold for international transactions.

The United States dollar can also be created out of thin air, by the way, all FIAT currencies can be created out of thin air just like that if their central banks believe it is convenient to handle their economy and safe rough times. Actually, if you see the situation which was created because the COVID pandemic, you could see at the example which was set by the government of the United States printing money out of nowhere so it could be provided in form of stimulus, so people could afford food and shelter during some months. I recall it those were up to 2000$ which were given per person.
In the case of India and China, if the problem is liquidity then it would take the Yuan to further expand its influence in other countries in Africa and LatinAmerica, so whoever gets paid in Yuans could easily get the products and services they need from other countries besides China, without having to buy dollars again.

I am still pretty skeptical on the USD being replaced in the short of mid term by countries within the BRICS or outside the BRICS, it has been decades of dominance by the United States and its allies, it wont easy to break free from it, not as easy has many people on this forum make it sound.

Main problem is no one want to go into reality, mostly are going with headlines only if they are thinking mean they are still having time with is showing how things are going with its never been easy to do this all.

But still we know everything is not last nature keep bring changes so we can hope for more in coming years and Iran, Russia and China are trying to do few things which are surely never been easy but important, and we have to wait for the better implemented which are more important how can they do this all it's also important today we have new Argentina is not going to join BRICS with few more announcements can appear in next few days as these changes are also can happen.

Well here we go,the speech for the followers and the reality.
Welcome to the reality. 

I don't know how successful they will be on this matter and will it actually have an impact on the US dollar. Using local currencies for trades can create many problems and conflicts between those countries. They might not be able to keep the relationship that they are trying to create. If they came up with a new currency backed up by something valuable, only then they can stand on the similar ground.

India and China have already tried it and failed to do that due to the reason that local currencies are bad for trades. You can create money out of thin air and for this reason it is hard to use them for international trades.
If they are going to do the trades internally, maybe they can be successful at that but not possible while doing it internationally.

The following countries in BRICS possess nuclear weapons:
Russia is an international terrorist country. Yes, it can be the author of a nuclear war. But. Russia shits in front of the whole world with its "second army of the world", and "unparalleled weaponry".  Russia turned out to be a fake country, as well as we can assume a strong degradation of nuclear weapons.

China is a country globally dependent on the West - investment, technology, consumer market. Do you think it is profitable for China to start a war against those who essentially created and support China's economy? !

India is an absolutely adequate country, with a western vector of development, not tainted by ties with rogue countries, which wants to develop and integrate more deeply into the WESTERN economy.

And the most important thing is that all these countries are very eager to get DOLLAR !

Iran and Russia are under sanctions, I don't think they can actually use USD. Maybe illegally, unofficially. But it's a big struggle for such countries. Also, they aren't big economies. Russia is #11 by GDP, but that's less than 10% of the US economy, for example. Iran is much smaller, at #42, with the economy smaller than that of Hong Kong and around the size of what Romania has. So their impact is certainly overestimated by the op. Whatever they do will have zero impact on the USD stability because they are nowhere near being strong enough to do anything about it.

It won't as the poorest citicens won't use that BRICS,
40% but 80% of the poorest citicens live in the BRICS countries,

Of course it's going to badly impact the US dollar, just how severe should be the question you should be asking. These countries that have become part of the BRICS alliance do not have the best relationships with the US ever since, and yet despite that they still depend upon the US economy a great deal. So in that regard I still think there will be a substantial impact upon the US dollar should they continue with the ditching of USD. One can argue that they could bar the US from receiving export and resources like oil, which will severely affect the US economically, but I don't think it's oil that will be the biggest denominator in this battle of attrition really. Especially when the world's turning towards electric vehicles and everything that's automated.

I think what could really affect the US economy here is the prospect of a formidable foe that could thwart the western superpower economically and in the military sector. Much of the countries in the BRICS have their fair share of nuclear warheads and weapons that they can detonate at their disposal and since the US is basically fighting in a 1 vs. everyone situation here, the mutually assured destruction caveat don't apply.

The plan will surely have great impacton the US dollar one of which is hyperinflation.

There is no need to protect the currency, the entire world wishes to have them.
Even the crypto crowd!

Of course, America and Europe will do everything in their power and efforts to protect their currencies, the dollar and euro, in various ways so that they continue to be used as a means of international trade transactions by all countries.

Therefore, any country that tries to weaken their currency, such as China and Russia, must immediately be weakened and destroyed in ways like what we have seen now through trade wars, proxy wars, energy wars, information wars, biological wars and many other wars. which they play with the main aim of protecting their currency interests so that they can continue to rule this world by fooling other human beings into using their currency which is not backed up by gold or worthless paper without any collateral attached to the money. buying petroleum and other things that have useful value are only paid for with play money that is worthless and printed at will, this is truly an abuse that cannot continue. So I think the presence of Brisc is really aimed at weakening the US Dollar. In my opinion, it is good, so that the West's economic and political hegemony over the world is balanced.

What do you mean, "controlling"? Can manipulate? No ? Then they have no influence on the market. Again - even if OPEC/OPEC+ (oil selling countries) are not able to really change the situation on the market, what can we say about a group of countries with a small share of production?
Moreover, China and India are much better off with cheap oil than with expensive oil.

Regarding "If all countries give up the dollar" - 2 simple questions :
1. Why ?
2. What to replace it with ?

Try to answer by giving arguments ?


And lastly, about "40%" of the world This is the 21st century, and it is not very effective to measure the number of population. You can measure by comparing the efficiency of the economy... But even here the BRICS are not doing very well... Even the Chinese economy has now entered the area of crisis, from which they not only can not get out, but the situation is getting worse.
By the way, it seems that China did not manage to fool "BRICS partners", and the theme of "de-dollarization and yuan-ization" did not pass - there were no fools in the BRICS who would agree to "import" the problems of the Chinese economy by switching from the dollar to the yuan.

I don't believe it will have a bad impact on the Dollar globally. Because the position of the US Dollar remains strong until now. If speaking is influenced, maybe it will still have an impact. But maybe not a big impact. But this year I have heard a lot of news regarding a country starting to use their local currency in international trade. especially countries that have trade cooperation with China and Russia. And it seems that Russia naturally does not use dollars in international trade if we remember the relationship between their country and the US. Many of the countries that are members of the BRICS seem to have done this. In the long term, there may be a time when the US Dollar will begin to weaken in global dominance. But I don't think that's any time soon. because currently the Dollar is still the strongest.

With the new members, the new BRICS composition now controls several percent of world oil production. Moreover, with the joining of Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Argentina and Iran into BRICS, these countries control most of the world's oil production. This clearly has a negative impact on the US dollar.

If all countries do not want to use US dollars and do not buy American bonds and cadev, all countries change US currency to Brics, then the US dollar will definitely collapse because it will no longer be needed for international trade. Moreover, currently the BRICS countries combined represent 40% of the world's population.

It will definitely have certain impact on US dollar. The impact will be great on those countries who will be importing oil using their local currency. Honestly I believe, there should not be one single currency to rule the international trade. That gives too much power to a specific country and give them and upper hand to start war at any part of the world. So if two major oil exporters start taking local currency against their oil, it will reduce the dependency on the US dollar. A great first step towards global peace, maybe!

More and more oil exporting countries need to join the band wagon.

A bit of skewed information.
Both Iran and Russia are pariah countries.
And, of course, they are under sanctions. This means that they have limited opportunities to obtain stable currency for international trade. Moreover, in some transactions, these transactions can be blocked if an international payment system is used.

So they start to think of ways to trade among themselves. And it's not a rejection of the dollar The rejection of the Iranian and Russian dollars sounds like a traveler who found himself in the middle of a potsynia without water and "proudly" shouted "no no no, I don't need water, I refuse it" )

Yes, they will look for alternative ways. Russia tried to promote its fake ruble at first, saying "the whole world will buy oil and gas only with rubles", well you probably laughed then too, just like the whole world Then Russia started selling oil for ayuan and rupees. Everyone laughed here too, because "in public" Russia showed "unprecedented revenues from oil", but in fact - half of rupees can not get until now, and for the rest - can not buy anything. The yuan is a little better, but except for consumer goods, Russia can't get anything in exchange for oil either.
And from Iran Russia needs drones, missiles and shells to continue the terrorist war against Ukraine. Therefore, they will look for some "schemes".... But all this is called "search for a monetary surrogate to try to replace the dollar, which is now not available to rogue countries like Russia and Iran".

Ditching the US dollar or as it is more commonly known: dedollarisation, is a global matter and should not be limited to a country or two doing a trade between themselves. It is also not a new thing, I'd say the start of it was in 1968 when the world started realizing the big American scam known as Bretton Woods (dollar was supposed to be backed by gold with a fixed exchange rate). The last nail in the coffin was in 1971 when Nixon suspended the conversion of dollar to gold. The 70's were very similar to these days and most of the world (specifically Europe) was facing an energy and an economy crisis so they started dumping the dollar and the price of it crashed.

The only thing that kept the scam going was replacing Bretton Woods scam with Petrodollar scam, which is basically US forcing others to trade energy using the dollar!!! It postponed dedollarisation for a long time and in my opinion the next major wake up call was 2008 when US banksters scam that crashed US economy and significantly harmed the global economy forced the world to think about dedollarisation again (fun fact: bitcoin was created in the same period).

But United States used to do all that by being the only power pole in the world and exerting its power through organizations they controlled such as United Nations and International Monetary Funds and many others. Which is why dedollarisation to this day has not been greatly successful.

That means dedollarisation needed the World Order to change. Which it did over the past couple of years. Today US can no longer exert the same power to force countries to use its limitless fiat which they print trillions per 2-3 months at this point!!!
This is why the world is once again moving towards dedollarisation but with better success and determination. And it is not just one or two countries doing that, every single country is doing it but at a different scale. For example a country like Iran that is heavily sanctioned by US is obviously more willing to ditch the dollar than Saudi Arabia that is like the 51st state of America but they both are doing it considering how the Saudi regime is conducting trades with China using Yuan that replaced dollar.
You can see this case by case yourself, for example over the past year many EU members have been trading with Russia using Ruble to evade US sanctions and still buy Russian energy!

Both countries Russia and Iran, can only accomplish ditching the USD if they decide to trade between themselves alone, but we all know that is not a good economic plan. They still need trade relations with other countries that might not be willing to do international trade with another currency other than the USD. In that case if other countries are not willing to accept another currency for international trade, wouldn't that be a flop to them? They need to first rally other OPEC countries and industrial countries like china, to be able to get a head start, or they remain in trading between themselves which will not be favorable to either of them in the long run. US has a lot of influence in many countries, therefore it'll not be easy to replace USD as the dominant force in world currency domination.

The US dollar is highly permeated in commercial transactions and it is not easy for it to be quickly exchanged, whether for any other currency or for gold, but many countries will try to reduce their holdings of the dollar and buy currencies of other countries, which will make the dollar’s contribution to global reserves less than 70%. Then the Fed may give The American view is important for the opinions of other countries and not just for the monetary policy of the United States only.

Of course, if two countries that previously used the US dollar decide to finally do away with it, it will have an impact on the US dollar. They would let go of every single USD in their coffer. They would not be buying any in the future.

But the bigger question is would they be able to fully detach themselves from USD? Will all their trading partners be amenable to avoid using the USD? If not, could they survive trading only with those that are willing to accept their local currency? Are international trading partners willing to deal with an unstable Iranian rial, for example, that has been losing value so fast in the past several years?

To my mind, the gravity of the impact of ditching the USD wouldn't be as heavy on the USD as their very own countries.

You give these politicians way, way, WAY too much credit. There's no chance either has any kind of "plan" like you are implying here, and no US president can "turn off all of the oil" or whatever. If you're actually interested in the price of oil over time there are a lot of factors....

You have to understand the US is possibly playing rope a dope.

Biden is the old fool moron. turns off all the oil. so Russia and Iran pounce.

Sucker move by US as Biden loses next election and

 Donald "mother fucking or should I say daughter fucking" Trump comes in opens up the oil and crushes the Ruble and the brics.

We never can really understand the mind games these assholes play we kind of try to survive them as best we can.

This topic has been discussed for many times in many recent discussions, especially in this board of the forum. With just a simple search, you would have found many answers to your questions, or they could be considered explanations for what is happening.
Despite the difference in opinions on the issue, you can summarize the positions into three types: A type that believes that the power of the dollar cannot be affected by the emerging international alliances and that it is still here to stay. The second type dreams of an era without the dollar, and that this can be achieved soon. The third group is more logical in its analysis and leans towards the idea that monetary systems can coexist, meaning that other currencies can replace the dollar in many functions.

I think that's one the main idea of why those country were forming BRIC in the first place, they want end the dependency toward USD. However, in my opinion at the end of the day they will need one currency as commonly accepted. There was a talk about a new BRIC currency, but that will be a very long road, and almost impossible, until then I think they will used each countries own local currency for trading, or they could use RMB which is more widely accepted currency compared to other BRIC Countries' currency.

They had been trying something like this for a while but I don't think they will have any success because both Iranian Rial and Russian Rubble as dead and will never be accepted by any other countries. Indeed Russia and Iran have really good relationship but they cannot do much by trading in their local currency instead of USD. May be they can just create a new ecosystem backed by something like gold or minerals and use that as trading choice.

Unless there are other major oil and gas exporters like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar, USD will not see any impact even if Russia and Iran ditch USD all together.

If I'm not wrong then both of those countries are in the group of country that have bad relations with the United States and they relations will continue to suffer due to difference in opinion and use of power. It's strange to see that Russia and Iran are still using US dollar to do their trading but surely the USD is the international currency and using it for trading makes sense.

However, now if they switch to BRICS or may accept each other's own fiat currencies for trading purpose then it's going to be a good thing for those countries but I don't think that it will impact the dollar in any way at all. the US dollar will continue to show its dominance but maybe in future BRICS might compete it in ASIAN zone.

They (Rusia, China, Iran) can hate the dollar as much as wish but they both need $ to pay rent for embassies which do gladly get $.
The world is connected and we are all part of it. Russia, Iran and China wish for a world which dance to their tunes?
What tunes will those be, I wonder?  

This is not new, the proposal to replace the dollar as the global reserve currency has been around for a long time and if it works out it will have a huge impact on the dollar and the economy of the United States.
For the rest of the world, it will just be one or the other.

Global trade standards are not changed very easily. Dollar is the universal currency that oil and some other global commodities are pegged to and changing that will require some economic resets from the nation's that wish to switch to another option.

China is the closest to presenting an alternative to the USD and BRICS will be at the forefront of doing that, probably with Chinese Yuan.

You bring quite an interesting perspective. It is true that even though Russia is the US's main competitor in energy resources, they still trade using US dollars in international trade, however I think cooperation is not always in line with political relations.

Saudi Arabia is bigger source than Iran. According to 2023 calculation Saudi Arabi products was 9,060,000 per day with top 3 position in world oil production countries while Iran is on number 8 with 3,140,000 bbl/day.



absolutely right. The National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) has a history of exploring alternatives to the US dollar in its transactions which is also partly due to political issues.
Now, with Iran turning to BRICS for support, it shows a very goid move towards strategic partnerships. BRICS, comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, offers an alternative economic alliance that allows Iran to reduce dependency on traditional Western channels.


You make a very valid point. While Russia is a significant oil source with 9,480,000 bbl / day and a somehow competitor to the USA, the use of US dollars in trade remains a usual practice. Shifting to local currencies faces challenges and we know that the complexities involved could act as a deterrent. Countries are trying to established the systems ,If they success then it will have some negative impact on US dollar but now nothing big will happen with USD.

I suspect the keyword there is "trying". If I had my own country, I'd love for the rest of the world to trade only in my currency too. But reality is another story. The only thing that would dislodge the US dollar is a massive political upheaval in the US that called the currency into question. And that would be an event that would wipe out trillions in wealth overnight. Nobody would want that.

it is very likely that transactions between brics countries will be carried out using the currencies of member countries, before the brics currency is launched. the advantage of them ditching the dollar is that they can increase the use of their own country's currency in international trade, save costs, improve the country's economy, and better trade relations.

this may have a significant impact on the usd currency, because so far the dollar has been strong because it is used in international trade, but after countries with large economies throw away the dollar and replace it with their own currency, it will be a stumbling block for america and the dollar.

but perhaps this dedollarization was not fully carried out by the country concerned, because the dollar is still trusted by many private companies and there are other effects if they eliminate the dollar in international trade. however, whatever efforts a country makes to dedollarize it can have a negative impact on the dollar.

Saudi Arabia is also part of BRICS and it also a big source of oil, maybe not bigger than Iran but it do have big resources, and talking about Iran going against the US dollar is not something new, because back in time, NIOC has made many tries to avoid using US dollars but you know they were forced. Well, the same thing would have happened with Iran which happened with Iraq, but now they have taken the support of BRICS.

Talking about Russia, even if they are a big source of oil and are good competitor of the USA, but still they might have to trade using US dollars while making trades with the US. Overall, I don't think US will be in any danger if these countries will starts to make deals in local currencies, that's because they ways to make deals in local currencies are full of difficulties and these difficulties will increase more by the ones who might be in danger due to this.

For me it only has slight impact as long as Saudi Arabia is still there to cater the needs of majority of other countries oil demand because they trade in dollars. What matters most to this oil trade is the route where the oil came from because of the fact that there are hostilities and ongoing wars in that region that is why some countries are sending warships to protect the supply route. It is really hard to beat the leading currency which is dollar even if the enemies of the US use their own local currency in trading oil and other resources.

Maybe it's a local thing, but I see that you wrote "doller" several times instead of "dollar".

As for the fact that some countries want to reject or have already rejected the US dollar, that is a matter of their personal choice - and as far as I know, even before the war in Ukraine, the largest Russian company switched its oil trading from the US dollar to the euro. Today, that trading can be in rubles or rials or in some third currency if the countries so agree.

The US dollar is still the world's reserve currency, but just today I read that Saudi Arabia and China have concluded some kind of agreement where they are also moving in the direction of trading in their national currencies. I am not surprised at all, because it is not realistic to expect that countries like Russia or Iran or even China do not try to be less dependent on the US dollar.

History has shown that nothing lasts forever, neither empires nor currencies.

Is Iran and Russia still trading with the US dollars? How can these two nations known for their anti-western stance still be trading in the US dollars now? They should have stopped trading with the USD a long time ago because the US has made them suffer from economic hardship because of sanctions.

However, it will be difficult to trade without the US dollars in the current global economic system. How many countries will be willing to accept the Iranian Rial or the Russian Ruble as payments for international trade? They will still have to convert these currencies to the dollar or other widely accepted currency for them to trade with other countries. This agreement to ditch the dollar will only benefit Russia and Iran's trade relationship. The most potent currency that would have competed strongly with the dollar was the proposed BRICS currency. It was expected that it would be launched this year, but sadly the conference in South Africa produced no significant impact.

Iran and Russia both are big source of oil, supplying oil to many countries. Both countries are economically strong and have a very good relationship. Russia is also part of BRICS while Iran will join in the Jan 2024.

Now news come out that both countries are trying to ditch US dollar for which they have now planned to trade in local currencies. what do you think this movement will help both countries? will It has any bad impact on US dollar?