Topic: Dividends (Read 506 times)

It really depends on how you are taxed on them, like most things when it comes to generating an income for yourself. It can either be punitive (the government might try to make you extract your profits in other ways) or it could be highly favorable - like in a tax or pension "wrapper". There will be the underlying rate which you'll get as a payout of profits from the company, which might be 2% or it might be 9% or some other worryingly high figure. Optionally a company might decide to keep all the profits in house, if they think they can put it to better use rather than paying out to shareholders - like buying a more efficient factory setup or bulk buying goods which would bring even higher profits next year, which will usually push the shareprice up by the corresponding amount.

Stocks (usually) give dividends because they create revenue, make profits. They sell stuff… Bitcoin doesn’t do any of that. Bitcoin in its current form resembles gold more imo. Both of them are commodities according to the United States at least. Like you said 1 btc is forever 1 btc but 1 share of aapl will have different price to earnings ratio in the future as their revenue change every quarter. A stock is a very dynamic asset in that regard.

So I don’t think bitcoin has anything to do with dividends. Saying bitcoin is paying dividends is like saying gold is paying dividends and obviously it is not true.

How does blockchain tech regulate bitcoin? It is based on that tech does not mean that the tech can force a user and set limits on how much they can send or receive. Please clarify this, I would love to know what I am missing.

Movements dont depend on the tech. Movements in fiat depend on the prices people set for 1BTC against fiat.

In that sense bitcoin is similar to a stock giving hefty dividends every quarter. Just that bitcoin will not be increasing in its inherent amount but the fiat value of bitcoin will. 1BTC will always remain 1BTC, which is again what makes it different from stocks with dividends.

The difference between these two investments (Dividend Stocks and Bitcoin) lies in the underlying assets of the two types of investments. Although Dividend stocks have the potential to provide profits, you need a large capital to enter this type of investment. If your stocks grow and succeed, then the stocks have the potential to rise. In general, the underlying asset of stocks is a company listed on the stock exchange.

While the value of Bitcoin is not regulated by the government or central bank, but is regulated using blockchain technology. Bitcoin investors view that the underlying of Bitcoin is the blockchain technology itself, they can gain investment profits through price increases whose movements depend on supply and demand or based on speculation of a sentiment. As a pros Bitcoin investor, would not sell $20 million worth of Bitcoin to invest in Dividend stocks, the huge potential generated by Bitcoin is far greater than any other type of investment.

An investor who does not tend to be greedy when investing in Bitcoin will be more productive if he can do long-term DCA and is not under pressure to make short term profits. Those who tend to be greedy tend to distance themselves relatively from those who have financial solvency and tend to accumulate a portion of bitcoins from ongoing income. But financial solvency is not the same for all investors so my advice is to practice depositing bitcoin regularly in small amounts so that he can get high profits in bearish times.

20 million usd of bitcoin is my gross amount.  I havent paid taxes on it yet but would like to purchase a home, buy a brand new car, maybe have lasik done, have the fraxel laser done on my facd to remove wrinkles, hire a 10k usd professional genealogist to legally change my entire name so i figure after taxes and all of this im gonna have a net amount of about 15 million usd.  Should i continue working until 62 to receive social security monthly benefit or can i turn my life around and just quit working?  Or should i continue to work until im only at most 50 years old?  What would my annual dividends be if 15 million at 3% annual returns?  Less than 600k usd?  Im getting conflicting reports here... some of you guys have spoken in favor of dividends whereas to others have said otherwise... on the other hand some of you other guys have said to not rely solely on dividends!  Can 15 million usd at 3% annual returns last me foŕ the rest of my life assuming i lived until 100 or beyond...? 

Yes, It great that you invested in Bitcoin.  You are not thinking of greed, that's a very good thought, but you should see that the way Bitcoin is going, it's not going to lose anyone.  I think Bitcoin will not fall for a few years and many people have benefited from it.  But it should be considered more because anything can happen but one should not work on Bitcoin with greed.  As much as you work on it, it's enough for you.  Anyone who works on bitcoin works on it with patience and courage rather than get rich quick.  If you keep working on it and focus on it with good thinking, you will surely succeed.

They do exist.

I believe in every countries do have something like financial manager or funds manager in big companies, they're very important, that's why the companies willing to pay expensive for them.

They might open for freelance financial advisor, but don't be surprised if they charge really expensive, in this case their fees might be larger than the whole investment by middle class people lol.

It's not different from crypto market in the sense that if you pick the right assets, you are going to make profit. The question is, which assets are worth to be chosen right now?

You need a strategy based on diversification to split your funds in different parts, which will be used to invest in more stable and riskier assets. You need to learn about the assets available or to hire a financial advisor to guide you. To operate in stocks market is accessible to everyone nowadays, as you can do it even through your digital banking app.

What we lack the most is the opportunity to talk directly to experienced professionals who are used to operate in this market. The informations they could share with us would be of high value. Most of times we are exposed only to the scammers on the internet claiming to be specialists, but who end leading people to financial losses and shady investments.

If I have a lot of money in Bitcoin, I will hold that and not choose stocks although maybe stock can give me profit. I believe Bitcon can gives me a big profit than stock.

If that person have 20 million usd of Bitcoin, he must hold it as I said before. He will see the value of his money will increase but he also need to be aware from the down trend of Bitcoin price because that will always happen. But for a long term investment, holding Bitcoin will benefits him and give him a big profit.

If he still want to invest in other things, he must search for what the best because our suggestion can not always work for someone.

I think stock investment is also one of the strategy. However, value refers to stocks in comparison to the growth of Bitcoin or other highly valuable assets. This is according to your goals and risk tolerance. Shareholders tend to favor more flexibility and stable income. But it may not provide the same rapid growth as riskier assets like Bitcoin.

As long as this person had $20 million worth of Bitcoin and wanted to increase that sum through dividends. It will be an excellent way for diversifying their portfolio. Stocks that pay dividends And especially from established companies. Regular fees are paid, which can be reinvested to build compound wealth over time. This is a type of blue chip stock that would pay a consistent dividend, like Apple, Johnson & Johnson, or Microsoft.

Technically it's important to remember that the goal of investing in stocks is often to create long-term wealth through stable income. You can also balance your portfolio by holding growth stocks or index funds to gain capital appreciation. If the goal is to multiply $20 million many times, other forms of investment such as equities, real estate, etc. Or even reinvesting in high-growth technologies can provide rapid growth. Although there is a higher risk.

In the end Deciding to Stay with Bitcoin, Switch to Stocks or distributed among other assets It depends on the individual's financial goals. Whether seeking stability and stable income Or if they are promoting a high-risk, high-reward opportunity? A financial advisor can help you set up a fund that suits your short-term and long-term goals.


Of course, relying solely on dividends does not guarantee safety as the share value declines over time, so even if you receive dividends, Declining stock prices can eat into your investment portfolio. The same goes for the volatility that occurs in the cryptocurrency market. Therefore, although dividends provide stable income, But it's not risky.

as you said Bonds provide a great deal of stability. But you're right again. If returns do not outpace inflation You will really lose purchasing power. Bonds may be a safer alternative. But it may not be large enough to keep up with changing economic conditions. Especially during times of inflation

It's still a good approach if the primary aim is capital appreciation. Volatility of Bitcoin is also a good source of profit. But the person should be prepared for the risk. Diversification is the key, perhaps a balance of high-growth assets like Bitcoins with some safe investments in the mix can find a balance instead of focusing solely on dividends or bonds.

You are talking about dividend traps but It is not a risk if you pick your stock after doing your research. Let's say if a company is constantly growing its earnings every year, there is no risk of having negative capital growth and the company can afford to increase its dividends.

The biggest issue with dividends is income tax. When you buy a growth stock, you will get taxed only when you sell it but when you buy a dividend stock, you'll get taxed for your income every year.

Since one needs cash income to have a retirement life, I don't see a big problem because you'll get taxed when you sell your stock to generate cash income anyway.

there's one catch with investing for the sake of dividend, it's the risk of negative capital growth, I've seen plenty of stocks going under the weather within just few years, while it's good to get dividend just for holding stock, but if the performance of the company over the long term poses great risk to our capital which supposedly become our passive income, then it's the same as risking it in a volatile market like crypto.

bond seems like a better idea, as long as the return is interesting enough, even then, we might not be able to outperform the inflation, because if the APY is the same amount of percentage as the inflation or even worse, less than inflation rate, this means we're only losing our money.

maybe just sticking with bitcoin is the better idea, don't fix something that's not broken.

How profitable is it to invest in dividend stocks if someone has a lot of money from bitcoin?

First of all, diversification is needed in investment so bitcoin is pretty good against the inflation just like gold but with big returns if you looking for a passive income strategy then invest in dividend stock is a good choice

What kind of online brokers can do this kind of trading…? If someone has like 20 million usd worth of bitcoin, how could they grow this amount many x over?

Bitcoin has Proof of Work mechanism meaning bitcoin can't grow like ethereum using proof of stake means bitcoin can only grow in value just like mutual funds did.

How much our money grows on dividends is dependent on the interest or profit scheme of the system we are enrolled in.  I believe regular ones are only giving a small amount or percentage ranging from 1% to 10% per annum.  So to grow it many times over will require us more than decades of waiting even if we are invested in the highest dividend stocks (non-cryptocurrency) while there are projects in cryptocurrency that give at most 20% per annum but it is dependent on how that coin project is performing in the market.

Maybe if you talk about diversification it will not be a problem rather than selling bitcoin entirely I think for me who has experience investing in bitcoin, talking about dividends will certainly not be the same as capital gains like what is in bitcoin, we are not like funding a company with sheets of ownership of a company, in bitcoin only capital gains are available.

I don't agree with you that we have to keep all the money in bitcoin, I think there is no need to put limits on where we can invest, if we want to diversify of course it is a good choice, but if you look at the profits in stocks it depends on the performance of the company and bitcoin it depends on where to buy bitcoin, so the multiples that will be possible to get can be much greater.

Why trying to sell bitcoin to another asset which the profits can't be compared holding bitcoin for long and as I know bitcoin is still growing, like yet bull run so there is every possibilities that what you gain in the bullrun if go into dividends like stock or whatever it would be pretty much better to stick on bitcoin except there are urgent and pressing need to do other investment, which I still do not value selling off my stashed bitcoin to something less productive to me.

Dividends stock are profitable you know and getting some funds from Bitcoin to invest in dividends stocks it's quite alright and lucrative too but it depends on the targeted markets because your major concern should be that, majorly now the stock markets is booming but yet competitive so investing some huge amounts would be a leverage for future investment and profits  that follows suit but then you can predict how's gonna look like,so it's more profitable than you can imagine but I'll advice if you have such huge amounts from Bitcoin you shouldn't invest all in dividends stocks but you can as well keep some and invest in Bitcoin too for future reference.

Microsoft used to be a dividend stock also Apple though tech for a long time never paid dividends at one point they were good value and fairly good yield also.  Technology at the moment isnt cheap as a stock to buy, especially with AI its become rated as a growth stock though some dividend is paid its not good yield comparable to the alternatives like plain savings.

Whats really important here is understanding with a stock paying a dividend, it is your own money being given back to you.  A company that pays no dividend is just as valid and may even be more profitable for you personally.  The non dividend company would just require you to sell some stock to get the cash, its more awkward for most small investors to do so however its often more tax efficient.

I may confuse with this last idea but its a solid ongoing dynamic an investor has to learn and be aware of.  For example Warren Buffet never pays a dividend on purpose not because his companies are unable.  It is a waste in his eyes, I would advise OP to digest these details and understand fully even if you do resolve to pursue 'high dividends'.

Just as crypto, the stock market is also volatile. The dividends also varies from the company and it's up to them if they'll release the dividends of their share holders on time or likely they won't be. It really depends on them. I'm not sure about the tech stocks if they're giving dividends but most likely that's still on the trend now but to give you an idea, many are leaving silicon valley and moving elsewhere.

If $20million is already on you, I'd pick up real estate and have it rented. The yield could be 7%-10% annually and you have the property but of course, that's not going to come easy but that's the real passive income for you and that's the business that you're able to make with that capital. It's very ideal for those with money to start their apartment rental business.

If that's the OP's goal, dividends from stocks (or simply investing in stocks which share dividends) is definitely not the way to go.

It is common advice that one shouldn't keep all his eggs in the same basket, and investing in stocks, especially if they pay dividends, may be a good option for those who are full in crypto, as a way to exchange risk for growing potential. But if the OP is looking for ways to double his fortune, he should start looking for other alternatives and be willing to assume a high risk.

It ends up being a question of allocating money to traditional stocks and other markets and crypto. Each has their unique thing and thus their pros and cons. Coming from a background of stocks, I can see the potential that dividends have but it is also important that the buyer sells those stocks to rebuy again and not just hold it. Compared to bitcoin holding it for long periods does avoid the short term drops and gives an overall profit.

These asset class vary and depending on your mileage you will have to give them different weightage. I have both and I get dividends every few months as compared to nothing on the bitcoin that I hold. But for me both are equally important.

That's very easy to have that kind of million, easy to spend and choose those stocks that pay dividends. Aside from the stocks, you can choose REITs to pay you dividends and with this, you need to do research with the both of them. I get the idea of those people that are investing into Bitcoin and then after they make money, they'll invest somewhere else. It's a wise idea if that's the game plan because you don't want your money parked and do nothing but you're making your money work for you. But I'm more curious to see if you're walking the talk and got that real money.

Depends on the stock. You need to look at the stock's earnings growth, debt to equity ratio etc... It is not really a good idea to pick a stock just because it is paying high dividends. On the contrary, in most cases high dividend yield is a red flag because it means the investors are dumping the stock and that's because they know that its dividend yield isn't sustainable.

Usually it is wise to invest in blue chip dividend paying companies like KO, PEP, MCD, XOM, PM etc. as they have been around for a very long time and most of the time they also have been increasing their dividend payments every year.

People that have lots of money invest in these stocks are getting retired on them. That's a very common way to become a financially independent individual. It is called FIRE on many parts of the internet (financially independent, retire early) The idea is nothing new.

$20 million is a very big amount. 3% dividend yield on that portfolio will give you $600k annual income and that's probably more than one would ever need. The hard part is of course getting that $20 million. Investing it in dividend stocks would only take 10 minutes. click click click and done.

The idea of investing in bitcoin or stocks is all about trying to fight against inflation by taking advantage of passive income. The bitcoin market is a small market compared to the stock market which of course like you said is over a 100 years old.

It is nice to notice the fact that bitcoin actually created an atmosphere of a digital banking system around periods just after 2009 when people started to gradually believe in crypto. Bitcoin is easier to invest in especially in smaller amounts although it's volatile.

Can't argue with that, except the vast majority of tech stocks don't pay dividends and that's what this topic is all about.  Any stock in the tech sector that does pay a dividend probably isn't the kind that's doubled/tripled in the past few years or so.


I would point out that the stock market has over 100 years of history to look back on when judging performance, while bitcoin's only goes back to 2009.  Fifteen years might seem like a lot of time to some, but when you're comparing it against a stock market index like the Dow or S&P 500, it's not enough to say anything meaningful really--plus you can't predict the future performance of anything by looking at charts of its past performance.  Bitcoin sure looks like it's going to crush the stock market from here to eternity, but anything could happen.  That's especially true when there's all sorts of scrutiny by governments regarding crypto. 

OP, I don't think you're going to be able to do what you want to do by investing in dividend stocks.  I'm all for passive income, but if you want to grow the value of your bitcoin why jump into the stock market?  There's no need for that, and you'd probably end up losing money like most people do who ask basic questions about investing on discussion forums.  Lol.

I wouldn't bother to diversify such amount of bitcoin into any stock because with the amount of bitcoin that you mentioned in the OP, it is enough to give you a bigger profit than any high profit dividend stock. This is because currently bitcoin is the best investment anyone can invest on for good profit since the value of bitcoin is appreciating higher than any other investment that you can think of due to its volatile nature.

Bitcoin is still early, and the price will continue increasing overtime no matter that the steepness will not be as deep as it was in the early days of bitcoin. Stock is an old-fashioned traditional way of investing; bitcoin is a digital asset that within the years of creation till date it has outperform other investments that has being in existence for long. It will be a wrong thing to diversify your bitcoin into a low profit investment that does not have the potential to grow your profit overtime.

You can ask your broker that if you have 20 million dollars. People forget that the rich people do not come here on bitcointalk forum and ask this question, you do not have to worry about it when you are poor neither, you are going to be getting calls without a doubt and they will help you with everything you want.

You can tell your broker to get 10 top dividend paying stocks and you will be making good money from it without a doubt, that is literally all you have to do, tell broker to find companies that pay dividends and pick the top 10 of them, the biggest marketcap ones, and they will keep paying you dividends all your life, and tell the broker to sell any if they stop paying dividends and you should be doing fine and get another one. It's literally that simple for you, a 5 or maybe 10 minute phone talk and it's done. Without being rich, you would not know that, and you would just consider what to do, because you do not know how rich people live, so stop worrying about what to do when you are rich, when you are not rich.

The historical return of the S&P 500 has averaged 10% (excluding inflation) over the past 100 years. The only index to beat that consistently for decades is the NASDAQ 100 at 3.5% plus. Here it does not serve as a benchmark that another index has beaten the S&P for a couple of years.


Yes, and both the indexes (in general) and Tesla stock don't pay dividends, which is what the OP was talking about.

The debate on whether it is better to invest for dividends or capital appreciation would be a topic for another thread in my opinion.

OP is fixated on multiplying millions in a few years, I have no doubt that he doesn't have those millions, not thousands of dollars but also pretty much no actual plan and no knowledge of what multiplying your capital would involve and what the risks are.


SP500 index is at 15% for the last 5 years and 10% for the last 10 years, of course depending on how you multiply the sums, CAGR or not indexable but still, 10% is pretty doable, and other indexes are beating even that.
Also, if we look at Tesla or Nvidia over the last 5 years, well, Bitcoin wasn't really the best during the last period

by speculating on a risky investment, I don't think dividends will cut it, you will probably make double of your money after few decades relying on dividend alone (without accounting capital growth of course), and that if the company you were investing not just underperforming and went into bankruptcy within a decade.

never hold that much amount of money myself but maybe if you're so fixated with stock investing in company like NVIDIA, AMD or something like that but wait until the hype about these stocks fades first.

or maybe you can take the easiest way of just holding BTC all the way up to $100k or more, essentially doubling your money, if you're brave enough to take the risk of course.

The OP has no fucking clue what he's talking about, and nowhere near 20 million in bitcoin.

For the sake of argument, I will respond that dumping bitcoin to buy dividend companies is quite likely to be a sell the winner to buy laggards move. Good dividend companies will at most give you 10% a year between dividends and capital appreciation, and if you buy them one by one you will make mistakes and you will surely get less than that 10%, while bitcoin will most likely give you a lot more than that 10% in the next few years on average.

Besides, there is no “broker” that will make you that move of exchanging bitcoin for dividend companies. First you will have to sell the bitcoin and with that money buy the shares. Even if you could do it directly, you will have to pay capital gains (if you sell more expensive than you bought), which is another argument for not doing what you are proposing.

I consider Bitcoin investment a safer place to increase your ROI than looking for a company where you'll get dividends, you'll have to DYOR and make the decision for yourself. Unless ofcourse you want to diversify your income into another asset that can yield profits to you, but you should remember that the company of your choice must be profitable before you can make profits too. If I have such an amount to invest I'd choose real estate because it constantly appreciates and you're always sure of making profits. Besides real estate keeps you in charge, instead of relying on when your volatile asset will give you returns on your funds.

If that's your goal speculating on low market-cap coins is probably the better move compared to traditional options with less volatility (and risk). I mean there's no way to grow your 20 million USD multiple times quickly without no risk at all. You're looking at high-risk options that end up as a scam most of the time. Alternatively, start your own business and use that money to grow your business quickly.

If it were me I'd diversify and change my goal even if only have $1 million. Being too greedy is not a good thing, especially when I can live decently with $200/month or so.

From what I have been experienced trying to invest in dividend and comparing it to more volatile investment such as stock or even Bitcoin. Dividend investing is a great strategy for anyone who wants stable, recurring income, though it is not exactly the way to "many x" your wealth compared to more volatile options like Bitcoin. Dividends return regularly at a stable, moderate pace, typically around 3-6% per year. Oftentimes, firms within sectors like energy, real estate, and transportation yield dividends upwards of 14-25%. The high yields are often related to higher risk, or lower growth in stock value. In my opinion if you already have enough other investment, and you are on your retirement age dividen is a good option, but if you are still young and you have only few asset I would prefer other investment first.

If i have 20 million USD worth of bitcoin I will settle with equity and bond, just changing around position between the two, no need to take unnecessary risk because even 10% APR from such big investment already big enough profit for most of us to live a decade without worrying about money.

maybe some small amount in BTC because I know potential is still there with BTC, but I'd be lying if with that money i'd prefer aggressive form of investment, I'd be highly on the defensive side taking advantage of the big capital that I have, maybe even starting out a venture capital because why not.

Your question is too open ended and depends on individual preferences in a turbulent market. If someone has a medium to high risk approach, they might pick individual shares that generate 10% in dividends - but any company that is offering this sort of return usually has lots of risk around it. I think the market average now is around 6-7% per year, including capital gains and you would be better off investing in index funds to dilute your risk over many hundreds or thousands of shares. Each country will have their own brokers and you should research them thoroughly to find the best, many will charge excess fees which can really impact your long term returns and are probably the most important point to monitor.

dividend stocks can be a bit profitable but your capital matters because if someone invest with small amount the return will also be very small, so is nothing compare to the profit you could possibly have if you hold onto Bitcoin investment, however if you already have $20 million worth of Bitcoin in your investment portfolio I would strongly advised not to sell it for dividend stocks investment, it doesn't worth it because Bitcoin can give you more than what that investment will give in the future, so let's take for instance your $20 million is equivalent to 328.99 BTC and if in the future Bitcoin price rise to $500k you can imagine how many millions you would make instead of dividend stocks that will not give you such amounts.

When you are making money from a volatile assets, you shouldn't invest that earned money into another volatile assets class. That's not wise unless you want to diversify your investment for long term.

Dividend stocks are good! But these stocks will not make you consistent money. Try real estate investment trusts. I am sure you have REITs in your local exchange. In my country, REIT investment is extremely lucrative which usually gives us an yield of around 9% - 11% every year from dividends. Capital appreciation is separate!

The motivation for doing this thing isn't about multiplying your money anymore since if someone already profited from Bitcoin, they have done that already, and become rich.
After becoming rich, you want to minimize (or at least decrease) your risk and just live with peace of mind.
Investing in the S&P 500 is still risky so you can adjust your portfolio accordingly. Or if you still want to "get richer quick" you can still do what you're good at -- speculating in crypto. But be cautious with the risk, DYOR & DWYOR.

S&P500 companies pay dividends. If you had that much money you could invest half of it in S&P500 & live off the dividends, without even touching your stocks. Keep the other half in Bitcoin, it’s too risky to not have a large Bitcoin allocation as a % of your portfolio.

Unless you know what you're doing it's probably easier to buy an index fund that pays out the dividends of the contained stocks. There's even index funds that specialize in dividend stocks.

Don't expect to high a payout though. Given that companies usually reinvest most of their earnings, with some paying little to no dividend at all (looking at you, Amazon), you're probably looking at 1-2% of a dividend yield with the stocks themselves growing maybe 5-8% in an average year.

What online brokers are available depends on where you live. Generally speaking I'd stay away from neobrokers such as Robinhood and Trade Republic though.

I guess it all depends on your portfolio. Which specific companies or stocks are you exposed to? They don't provide the same dividends. Some pay high, some pay low, some even don't because they're not in profit. However, the average dividend is in single digit. That's at least as far as the situation in my country is concerned. In which case, I don't find it a better alternative.

Anyway, you can choose the most popular and trusted stock broker in your place. You can also have access to it via your bank.

Be careful about scammers. That includes stock traders who make it appear as if making money trading stocks is a walk in the park. They can't grow your money many times over.

It would depend on the stock you choose to invest in. The average yearly returns from investing in the stock market aren’t nearly as good as investing in Bitcoin, but there are some tech stocks that have performed really well and you could have doubled your investment in a few years. Investing in blue chip stocks and reinvesting your dividends could be a nice way to diversify your portfolio.

$20 million is a lot to invest in stocks. Choosing a stockbroker will depend on your specific needs. I would recommend starting out with a small investment at one of the most well known and highest rated ones and see if the fees and service are acceptable before deciding to invest more.

I don't see the point of it unless it's for diversification. Bitcoin has been more profitable than dividend stocks and all indications are that it will continue to be so. Selling something more profitable to buy something less profitable does not make much sense. Unless it was, as I said, because you have all your wealth concentrated in bitcoin and you want to diversify at the expense of profitability, but for that, don't just buy dividend stocks, buy real estate too, for example.

dividends

How profitable is it to invest in dividend stocks if someone has a lot of money from bitcoin? What kind of online brokers can do this kind of trading…? If someone has like 20 million usd worth of bitcoin, how could they grow this amount many x over?