Topic: Do card holders like Visa provide information to Central Banks? (Read 851 times)

There were some on Google, but they had extremely high fees and looked like scams, so I don't really know one I would recommend right now.

I don't think so, they all use Visa/West Crave as a card provider, and for that very reason all have to comply with Visa KYC policies. If you know one let me know

Are there any legitimate non-KYC cards left at this point? Seems like all died out recently.

Yes at least Bitwala are very upfront in all their procedures like KYC and especially with the fees.

They made a comparison between the major card providers, cheapest of the market as far as I know (adv cash second place), totally recommended:

https://blog.bitwala.com/does-bitwala-have-the-best-bitcoin-debit-card-on-the-market-353ab50b34e3

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliate on Bitwala or part of them, just a happy costumer.

Check the actual modalities. You still have to comply with KYC/AML if you want to be able to use your money. You're just adding an extra step at outrageously high fees. Not to mention that it's completely foolish to go entrust your money to some pseudo-bank.

Really? Not KYC policy? I understood this is a policy enforced by VISA and they use a Visa, I dont understand that.

Virtual bank "AdvCash.com" Check that out!

Thank you all for your comments.

What I understood from your advice is that there is no automatic report of information on clients by banks or by Visa, but if required, or if any suspicious activity, they are forced to do that. So I think unless I do something stupid or crazy I'm gonna be fine. At least that's what I understood!

Thank you all again.

Of course they will. They practically have to. As if there is a gun a few inches from their nape. But with regards to taxes nobody can really force you to pay the right amount of taxes. It is your money afterall. You earned it.

There are no "virtual banks" that do not have to comply with KYC and AML.

All banks work with goverment, all of them, except virtual ones!

In some countries they have to report immediately. And if there are any irregularities there might be a thorough investigation.

NO! they are not allowed to divulge such information unless authority ask for it.

I think since Visa, Mastercard and the like are financial institution they are required to provide client's information to authorities, specially regulating bodies.

When it comes to fiat banking I believe banks are required to provide your information
to the central bank if your account was put into question ( at least for my country)
since we have a bank secrecy law. But if you are transacting crypto currency I am not
sure if central banks have new regulations about it.

Well I know for a fact that the ECB is asking the banks to "check" all their costumers by 31st December, especially foreign accounts. Apparently they have that power.

Yeah I think that pretty much sums it up, at least it's been my case in the last years. My assumption was there is no automatic sending of data from either Visa nor Skrill to the Government UNLESS required. I think I'm not a target of the State due to my situation (young, never worked, never paid taxes). It could happen, but it's extremely unlikely, and in this case I would just pay the fines, the amounts are not that large so that I could go to prison or something really bad.

I was a little bit more worried because Bitwala is a "bank" from within the EU (Germany), and the amounts are going to be higher, but I will stick to the "stay under the radar" mode, don't do anything stupid like the big transaction I made, and cross fingers. Maybe make some more small transactions in the last of this tax year and then spread what I intend to put out between 2018 and 2019 and then go back to a normal tax situation.


My situation is what it is right now, I could have made things a little different in the past but as for now I cannot change them. It's somewhat difficult to manage like that through life, for example you cannot invest in something different than BTC so that your money doesnt lose value every year, you cannot buy a house, a car, etc., but I intend to go back to normal after a year or so when it will be much easier for me, let's hope this works.

Thanks all for the help guys.

What does your central bank do with your banking activity?

It's more likely that Visa tracks this information but doesn't proactively report it out. Visa would give it up if a government agency declared they needed it (lawfully).

I wouldn't worry to much. It's hard to be completely anonymous, and it's not all that morally responsible either.

Since you are using a debit card for your withdrawal your information are open to the banks,
and if your government wants to get that information from the bank then they are going to provide it.

Taxes are inevitable and you can't avoid it if your government wants to ask for it since you are
converting your bitcoin to a fiat currency. If you really want to evade those taxes then just keep
the coin or you have an option to sell the coin to another person that is willing to buy it without
applying those taxes.

I think you should check your tax code and find the cheapest way to legally cash out your crypto profits.

If you don't like your government for any reason (corruption, tax too high, or whatever) then look for a different country, move there, and pay taxes properly there.


There are some very nice countries with low enough tax rates to not feel compelled to evade them.

And if people moved to such countries on a large scale the rest of the world would have to adapt to suit the needs and wants of the people.

iam very happy 

Free? It's paid from my taxes ...  ( sort of PONZI  )

I get it. I made a top up on Bitwala's card a few days ago of a large amount, won't repeat the same mistake again.

Thank you all for your help! Any comment/advice is much appreciated.

What counts as "under the radar" depends on how much you normally receive and send. If you suddenly move significantly more than usually you'll get on the radar. You can't just jump from 10k or even 100k to 200k without raising flags.

This is why the holding period is very important. Many countries have very low to no taxes on assets that were held for more than one year. Which makes trading highly unprofitable in some countries once you factor in the risks.

Well, then I guess it can get a little tricky. With Skrill, which country do they send the info to? My born country where my passport is issued or the country where my address is on and where I'm living right now?


Anyway, I think if I understood correctly, bottomline is, I can fly under the radar if not doing abnormal activities. How much are we talking about as a "huge" sums? I will be careful and only do small transactions evey now and then. My plans for 2018 were withdrawing about 100k€, maybe a little more, if done patiently could I still fly under the radar? This is far more than what I have been taking from debit card in the recent years, that's why I'm concerned.

And by the way, I would be happy to pay a certain reasonable theft or taxes in exchange for nothing in a country where I barely put a foot on, but at this point it would only create more red flags for my situation, so as for now it's much better for me to try to remain under the radar. I think an inspection against someone like me (never "worked", never made a tax income declaration) would be extremely unlikely.

Yes. Private banks submit information to the central banks of the governments for AML/KYC regulations. As for your official credit status on the bank and how much does your account contain, they don't give such since it would contrast the bank secrecy law in some countries. It would only be a red flag if you're continuously receiving huge sums of money on your account or unless someone files a legal complaint against you.

Insert Quote
All the economic/financial system is tied, banks, credit cards, goverment. Credit cards report to goverment what you buy, so goverments can ask for taxes.

Yes but it is one thing that Government can "ask for taxes", and another thing that the Government gets actual reports. I know that if a recieve a transaction for 100k€ in my European bank account it's going to be a red flag and the Bank has to notify the Government. But it's not always so black/white:

For example, in Skrill: I have a EU passport, but the address on my Skrill account is from a non-EU country (where I currently live). I think it's very unlikely that the Government is going to ask Skrill for their databases to see if some of their citizens have an account on an electronic wallet in a foreign country. Besides, the amounts were kind of small. I've been doing that for a few years and I think it's very unlikely I would have problems.

Now with Bitwala is a little bit different as the amounts are and are going to be bigger (not enough to be in jail, don't worry for that haha), and my address is in the country from which my passport is issued and where I'm supposed to pay taxes.

I want to know the very specifics of my case. Should I be worried about Visa sending the information to the Government with Bitwala or with both? As I said I'm not too worried that Bitwala or Skrill themselves are going to send my info to the government, but I don't know about Visa.

I don't know the specifics of my situation here, and some light would help tremendously.


Regarding the "stop scamming your government", I'll just say it's too much assumption from you without knowing me or any of the specifics of my situation.

To be fair, Canada has very nice tax rates despite having insanely good health care. If you go to Europe you'll pay at least double and up to four to five times as much in taxes and still have to pay for health care (which in some countries is outrageously expensive for self-employed people when compared to the usual rate).

I'm actually considering moving to Canada because of the lax tax rates and the inexpensive and beautiful plots of land.

Yes they do depending on your country and legislation. If you're using a non-anonymous card and start putting too much money through it you will get a letter from your fellow tax collector and will have to pay heavy fines or serve jailtime if it turns out that you tried to evade taxes.

All the economic/financial system is tied, banks, credit cards, goverment. Credit cards report to goverment what you buy, so goverments can ask for taxes.

Maybe he lives in a country were the goverment scam their people wasting the taxes on tanks and survillance.

Stop trying to scam your government.  I bet you use all their free services, don't you?

Hey! Thanks for your response.

I'm not very converned about the bank reporting stuff to the Governments. I've been withdrawing money (from legal activities! hehe) with Skrill debit card for several years and I wasn't even close to concerned. I had my address on Skrill on a different country from where I allegedly live and pay taxes.

Now I'm more worried that VISA, given my address on my Bitwala account is actually the address to a EU country where I should pay taxes for it, will be required this information on me by the Government, or reports to the government. In fact, whether my bank (Bitwala, Skrill, or even Visa) will report or not such activities is my object of discussion! And any help is much appreciated as this worries me a little bit. I think Skrill is also in Gibraltar, so less reason to worry, Bitwala worries me a little bit more (and also bigger amounts of cash withdrawn)

Credit card transactions are completely open to banks, ACH, any Gov where its used.  Regardless of what is said in the "fine print" its an open book.  Whether or not your bank will report such activities is open to discussion but not if the information is available if they wanted to.

Hey there! New here.

I've been using the Bitwala debit card for a while to withdraw money. I think Bitwala is amazing and actually I'm thinking about investing in their next ICO! the service is perfect and the fees are the lowest in the market.

Anywa, the thing is I'm a little bit worried that they (or Wave Crest Holdings, or VISA) would give my information to ECB or to the Central Bank of the country I live (Europe). I would like to keep withdrawing BTC in the Bitwala card without having to worry about the tax agencies or the government messing around. Do you think they have a way of finding out? I'm a little lost here.

Thank you!