Do spectators now know better? | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Probably they know better but they cant do it on the playground.

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Guess lack of confidence in a coach could contribute to that, or the spectator is actually more talented, just too dumb or don't understand the coach well.

In rare case where a coach is exceptionally Good, (maybe because he/she totally depends on our CREATOR) you just trust whatever formation or player he chooses.
*A good leader at "war" could use strange strategies that may shock his followers but wise followers will trust him if he always does well or wins all his battles.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 08, 2021, 03:31:34 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

It is my experience that most athletic, fitness and sports coaches are not good at what they do.

They're usually people who might know some of the basics and have some background in the sport they coach. For them coaching is a 9 to 5 job where they do nothing to expand, update or improve their knowledge base. They continue to use the same basic knowledge they were taught which will often be outdated or obsolete.

As a result, there are fans who are more credible and informed than coaches. Simply due to fans being bigger students of the game and being more up to date. This is a very common theme. Even at the highest levels of coaching in sports, there is a significant proportion of the population that does not belong there and does not legitimately deserve their position.

I think the main accent here from the OP is on football/basketball matches and on similar sports. But what you say about athletic and fitness coaches is definitely true and I can confirm that from my experience. In the area where I live, fitness coaches always stick with the same routine: Traditionally 12 rep 4 set on almost every exercise, traditionally the same low calorie/low fat diet and traditionally the same routine even on anabolics. This industry is most likely bro science in a lot of areas. I have been in touch with a lot of fitness instructors in my country and I haven't seen anyone trying something innovative, like keto diet, 5x5 set/rep, HIIT cardio, etc. It's really boring when you only copy/paste everything and the routine is similar of a robot.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on November 09, 2021, 08:42:49 AM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Yes, it's possible, but often it's just because of asymmetric information. Pundit only looks at the match day performance, and not measuring progress, fitness level, and training performance. Often the coach sees Player A is in a good physical shape, training well, seems can be trusted. But on D-Day, he plays like a crap. Thus Pundit questioned the coach judgment instead of other things, like Player A choked. Conversely, Player B is a troublemaker (not discipline), not training well, and prone to injury, but he often plays well on D-Day. Thus, fans and Pundit think he is a better player and should be played more where it can be just a fluke.

Speaking of tactics, the team needs to understand and execute tactics correctly before it can be deployed in a real match. Often, pundits are just like "why not use tactics X or Y?" when the coach already tried it but failed in training.

What you say makes sense...

Have anyone ever heard of Dunning Kruger effect? This effect shows the more uneducated, clueless people are about something, more confident they become that they have the perfect solution for that, because they see everything in a very plain, simplistic way. I think I could relate it to spectators who imagine they are more capable than teams' coaches, while in fact they don't know anything, because they don't participate the daily life of the team, trainings and preparations for the games. So I don't think spectators know better.

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Quote from: Sanitough on November 09, 2021, 08:41:39 AM

Sometimes I feel I know better than the coach by just watching my favorite game.

I guess it's human nature for a fan to think that we know the game very well because he put out interest in it.
As a gambler, I could put myself in the shoes of a player, a team, a coach, and even on the management, that's how deep my love for the sport I've been playing and that just makes me more satisfied with what I'm doing though honestly, I lose a significant amount sometimes.

this may be because you are more confident in yourself because you can only describe and simulate it in your mind without knowing this will work or not when applied directly in real matches.
on the other hand for the coach himself is a different thing and not everyone can do that, because indeed they need to do it right, especially for teams that are really big and the target is to win for example.
This is not to mention mental and other things that can make players motivated and obedient to the coach's decisions.
I think it's a difficult thing to do

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Quote from: xSkylarx on November 09, 2021, 01:47:15 PM

Quote from: Zilon on November 09, 2021, 01:36:48 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Yes a spectator with no formal training can develop a better coaching skill than a trained coach and this happens when this spectators develop so much love and passion for the kind of sports they watch. Now as a spectator who has followed a certain sports for years and have a club which you fan you will know the strength of the team you fan and will know how each of them perform and even which wing each of them play so when there is a wing switch or poor performance those spectators would know better how to play and which formation would have been preferred

Yes, that is correct, and I believe that if I were to be spectating, I would be able to think quickly and accurately, perhaps even predict the next move. I believe this is due to the fact that I am a little nervous while playing and do not think clearly. By simply watching, you could gain a great deal of knowledge, which you could then use to gain skills and become a better coach because you already have some experience in the field. In addition to enjoying the game as a spectator, I also enjoy it when it is intense.

As a spectator then you would really be having that kind of mindset and behavior on which you do really trying to predict those next moves that could happen and making opinions basing on what you do see which i could say its a normal kind of attitude or behavior of someone whose watching.

Does it mean that were/theyre much better? No its not. Those are just speculations too but doesnt mean that theyre good enough.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 09, 2021, 01:36:48 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Yes a spectator with no formal training can develop a better coaching skill than a trained coach and this happens when this spectators develop so much love and passion for the kind of sports they watch. Now as a spectator who has followed a certain sports for years and have a club which you fan you will know the strength of the team you fan and will know how each of them perform and even which wing each of them play so when there is a wing switch or poor performance those spectators would know better how to play and which formation would have been preferred

Yes, that is correct, and I believe that if I were to be spectating, I would be able to think quickly and accurately, perhaps even predict the next move. I believe this is due to the fact that I am a little nervous while playing and do not think clearly. By simply watching, you could gain a great deal of knowledge, which you could then use to gain skills and become a better coach because you already have some experience in the field. In addition to enjoying the game as a spectator, I also enjoy it when it is intense.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Yes a spectator with no formal training can develop a better coaching skill than a trained coach and this happens when this spectators develop so much love and passion for the kind of sports they watch. Now as a spectator who has followed a certain sports for years and have a club which you fan you will know the strength of the team you fan and will know how each of them perform and even which wing each of them play so when there is a wing switch or poor performance those spectators would know better how to play and which formation would have been preferred

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Quote from: Sanitough on November 09, 2021, 08:41:39 AM

Sometimes I feel I know better than the coach by just watching my favorite game.

I guess it's human nature for a fan to think that we know the game very well because he put out interest in it.
As a gambler, I could put myself in the shoes of a player, a team, a coach, and even on the management, that's how deep my love for the sport I've been playing and that just makes me more satisfied with what I'm doing though honestly, I lose a significant amount sometimes.

Human nature as it is, most of the time, you are thinking that you know who should be playing inside. You are not trusting the coach

judgement, you are basing your assessment on the previous games a player had. Most of those gamblers have this kind in mind when they think

that the team are not performing, blaming the coach is always their reasons, sometimes, they wanted to replace the coach if it's possible being done. Grin

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Quote from: maju69 on November 08, 2021, 01:43:00 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I think this is felt by all the football fans in the world, they suddenly know more than every inch of the game. But the fact is not at all much better know. It's just that all the comments that emerged from the audience that he thought were true. But just try this and that comment that is made as a football spectator commentator, it is not necessarily true that he becomes a coach.

Don't be surprised, this is common, fans always comment from behind a glass screen, it doesn't mean you can become a coach or a player on the field.

Spectators can only analyze a game based on a particular qualities of some well known player in a club they are supporting however they never knew that the coach/manager has a close contact with each of the players during the training sessions thus picked his team based on individual player fitness, form and tactical formation to be used in executing of a particular match, that is why coaches and managers always take the blame when the match is lost. Spectators can only verbally analyze matches which quite different when playing live match.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Yes, it's possible, but often it's just because of asymmetric information. Pundit only looks at the match day performance, and not measuring progress, fitness level, and training performance. Often the coach sees Player A is in a good physical shape, training well, seems can be trusted. But on D-Day, he plays like a crap. Thus Pundit questioned the coach judgment instead of other things, like Player A choked. Conversely, Player B is a troublemaker (not discipline), not training well, and prone to injury, but he often plays well on D-Day. Thus, fans and Pundit think he is a better player and should be played more where it can be just a fluke.

Speaking of tactics, the team needs to understand and execute tactics correctly before it can be deployed in a real match. Often, pundits are just like "why not use tactics X or Y?" when the coach already tried it but failed in training.

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Sometimes I feel I know better than the coach by just watching my favorite game.

I guess it's human nature for a fan to think that we know the game very well because he put out interest in it.
As a gambler, I could put myself in the shoes of a player, a team, a coach, and even on the management, that's how deep my love for the sport I've been playing and that just makes me more satisfied with what I'm doing though honestly, I lose a significant amount sometimes.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I would definitely say yes, hardcore sport fans know everything about a team and will question often the decision of the coach. Good fans know the strength and weaknesses of all players and would be able to coach a team for a game. The difference between the coach and the fan is that it's the job of the coach do make decisions everyday. Being able to manage a team through the whole season is a tough job. It's hard to live with so much competition in the top football leagues, there is not much room for error. I don't think that the average fan would be able to be coach for a long period of time.
As a spectator it always easier to comment on a game after it, we know what went wrong and had more time to think about it. For the coach he has to make such kind of decision within minutes and he doesn't have all the information yet. If a player is having a bad day the coach could substitute him, but what if another player gets injured and he used all his substitute slots before? There is also the problem of favouritism, a coach might have a stronger bond with a certain player and will use him even if he is not performing 100%. Such decision will make the fans very angry if the team loses the game.

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Well, I don't think it only happens in sports because normally, viewers will always comment on what they're watching. Say something like a news show that tells about development or anything related to your city or country, at least the audience will have their own opinion, right. So in this case, it doesn't mean that the audience who gives comments is someone who knows everything or whatever, it's just a comment that usually happens to be discussed at a certain moment and it has been happening for a long time until now.

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The coaches may set a strategy and release the starting players depending on some considerations. Besides considering the current performance and the condition of their players, the coaches will learn the opponents' strategy, characteristics of the players. With this method, probably there is a rotation or a change in starting players or strategy (formation, tactics). In a certain situation, the coaches also can give specific instructions to the players. So, don't be so surprised if there is a change, the match can be dynamic.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

(...)
-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

This is different and it depends. If a speculator is doing some gambling and the coach or player is not a very huge difference. But for the sake of experience, we all know players/coaches known better and a lot of understanding but could be "limited", while speculators could compare different games/teams if this speculator is into game or serious to know everything.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

~
-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

There is no question that we have a educated crowd who love the sport, but that does not mean that we are better than the coach and we know better about the tactical games better than what they are implementing. But we know the sport inside out and as a fan you can comment on those aspects when you are watching the game.

Quote from: harizen on November 08, 2021, 06:28:37 PM

Just look in NBA for example, most famous analysts is not basketball players before. And those players who end up as an analyst is not good at making analysis, speculations, and predictions.

To be a analyst you need to have mike skills to and you need to express, some of the players might not be able to do that, but there are former players that can accurately make the analysis and identify the spots.

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Quote from: Yogee on November 08, 2021, 05:17:01 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 08, 2021, 06:35:23 AM

Spectators (Couch Coaches) have the luxury to make calm decisions, without any stress at home, because they are not under pressure. A lot of the actual coaches have to make split decisions based on 1000's of strategies that has been discussed with the players in the week before.

Hehehe indeed. Most fans turned couch coaches only become an "expert" after the match is over. It's much easier to say things in hindsight and actual coaches doesn't have that luxury. Another thing they are criticized for is not making adjustments or substitutions during a match when things aren't looking good but it's not that easy as well.

This is just actually like when market tends to have a bull run then everyone turns out to be price or market analysts. hehe. This case was no different

whenever there are some incidents happen or outcome which doesn't really turns out to be that not appealing or good into their eyes then criticism would comes next. What would you expect?

Spectators does really have always words which they could eventually say as if they are much better than with those coaches.

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Sometimes, speculators know better because they know the team's performance for long. They are watching them for long, following them for long, so they know what's the best thing that a certain team will do as an advantage. In actual sports, coaches and players are ended up in a different situation making them sometimes confused about what to do as they are pressured to win.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

It's not spectators have a better understanding but their analysis makes sense. And as a spectator, they observed well the team's performance. They are more a bit of relaxed that's why they see everything from the team's advantages to the team's disadvantages.

Just look in NBA for example, most famous analysts is not basketball players before. And those players who end up as an analyst is not good at making analysis, speculations, and predictions.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

That's not going to happen, it takes a lot of things to become a coach, in fact, to be a coach you have to go through proper training, be a player or become an assistant coach first, you must know everything inside of the team and how to build and motivate a team you don't pick a guy out of spectators and think he can coach, there are good spectators of games but that doesn't mean they will be good in coaching.

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We don't have a coaching mindset and we're just watching at all but it doesn't stop us from analyzing decisions, plays, and rosters when we're watching sports that we love.
It is very common to have that commentary whenever we watch games that it seems not working along with how we're expecting it to be. In the end, we're making speculations that this and that is much better if done and decided by the coach.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 08, 2021, 06:35:23 AM

Spectators (Couch Coaches) have the luxury to make calm decisions, without any stress at home, because they are not under pressure. A lot of the actual coaches have to make split decisions based on 1000's of strategies that has been discussed with the players in the week before.

Hehehe indeed. Most fans turned couch coaches only become an "expert" after the match is over. It's much easier to say things in hindsight and actual coaches doesn't have that luxury. Another thing they are criticized for is not making adjustments or substitutions during a match when things aren't looking good but it's not that easy as well.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Even if someone has spent 30 or even 40 years in the stands of a stadium, he has never attended a sports club board meeting. The coach is responsible not only for what is happening on the pitch. Obviously, the results are the most important, but it is very important to know how to get them.
To know how to do it, you need to have a lot of experience, and good trainers train professionally for many years.
So no, it's definitely impossible!

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Observers only know the theory of the ball game in front of the television screen. Almost all football spectators must have various observations. But is it really hard to say smarter? obviously not, because in the field it will be very different. The coach knows much better. But this is unique in the world of football. Everyone can come up with various comments, suggesting strategies and even players who should enter the field as if observers know much better. And it is considered as something perfect to apply on the field if Ronaldo, Ibra, Messi, Mbappe, Kante, Salah, and Neymar are in one football club. Lol

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Quote from: goaldigger on November 08, 2021, 04:46:21 PM

Spectator always have to say but it doesn’t mean they are better to the coaches because they are not professionals and they just know how the game works but with regards to strategies, I still believe on coaches. There are times that we see differently simply because we are seeing the whole picture what we don’t know is the situation on the grounds and between players, just place your bet if you think the right way.

This is what my take here also. If you feel you are better than the coach, why not place a bet and see for yourself if what you think is really right? Because being a coach is a different scenario. Once you are on the floor, the environment is different and also, the approach is different because you need to apply technical aspects in order to get ahead of the game. And some people can't see their ways because spectators are mostly after for what they can see with their eyes. But some are hidden strategies that they can't explain it to the audience.

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Quote from: goaldigger on November 08, 2021, 04:46:21 PM

Spectator always have to say but it doesn’t mean they are better to the coaches because they are not professionals and they just know how the game works but with regards to strategies, I still believe on coaches. There are times that we see differently simply because we are seeing the whole picture what we don’t know is the situation on the grounds and between players, just place your bet if you think the right way.

Even just a non long time sport fan would able to give out their words and those countless of "why" specially on the time on where their teams are losing or had already lost the game.They would be always be having that kind of reasoning which is something not really that surprising on having those kind of reactions as it looks that they are much better with those team coaches.Expect those words that do commonly come out and as said that even they had said their own but doesnt mean that they are much
better with those who do handle out an entire team which does have more experience that you do.

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Spectator always have to say but it doesn’t mean they are better to the coaches because they are not professionals and they just know how the game works but with regards to strategies, I still believe on coaches. There are times that we see differently simply because we are seeing the whole picture what we don’t know is the situation on the grounds and between players, just place your bet if you think the right way.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

That is going to be difficult, there is no doubt that some spectators know their game very well to the point that they could take decent decisions if they were given the position, but it is impossible for them to be as good as the ones actually coaching the game because the access they have to the information is limited.

Even if we live in an age in which the information seems to flow freely, clubs keep a lot of information to themselves, as such a fan is never going to know that information and while he may think that a certain strategy could work under certain circumstances the coach knows why this is simply not possible due to the information only he and a small circle has.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on November 08, 2021, 03:31:34 PM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

It is my experience that most athletic, fitness and sports coaches are not good at what they do.

They're usually people who might know some of the basics and have some background in the sport they coach. For them coaching is a 9 to 5 job where they do nothing to expand, update or improve their knowledge base. They continue to use the same basic knowledge they were taught which will often be outdated or obsolete.

As a result, there are fans who are more credible and informed than coaches. Simply due to fans being bigger students of the game and being more up to date. This is a very common theme. Even at the highest levels of coaching in sports, there is a significant proportion of the population that does not belong there and does not legitimately deserve their position.

Coaches are there for reasons audience can't take part of.
However, in some cases, there are really knowledgeable spectators and they can see what the coaches can't see.
It is like outside perspective and I guess, it is not new. This is why some sportsbettors who are really very familiar with the sports can make a lot of money.
Remember, there are some sportsbettors who can really make this as a living. Because if you are really good at it, your winning chances are high.
So if you feel you are better than coaches, why not use it to your advantage? Sportsbetting may give you a lucrative hobby.

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to know I think the audience actually knows better what to do and what to do.
but it's just an expectation and not a reality because basically we can only sort about the possibility that will happen.
On the other hand, the evidence that the audience knows the truth is that sometimes their guess will be better than the coach's intuition.
but on the other hand the audience is still an audience who really can't be as professional as players and coaches

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

It is my experience that most athletic, fitness and sports coaches are not good at what they do.

They're usually people who might know some of the basics and have some background in the sport they coach. For them coaching is a 9 to 5 job where they do nothing to expand, update or improve their knowledge base. They continue to use the same basic knowledge they were taught which will often be outdated or obsolete.

As a result, there are fans who are more credible and informed than coaches. Simply due to fans being bigger students of the game and being more up to date. This is a very common theme. Even at the highest levels of coaching in sports, there is a significant proportion of the population that does not belong there and does not legitimately deserve their position.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

There is definitely something to be said about observers who are very close to the game, however they will tend to be experts in one team while maybe following other teams less closely - which makes it hard to find an advantage overall. It you have a solid team that is winning game after game, it is unlikely that formula will be changed by any sensible coach, but injuries can cause new players to be cycled in and they may either weaken or improve a team. A keen follower might be able to distinguish that and possibly identify that they may lose a game due to reduced skill or cohesion, but it will be very hard to do consistently by a single person. It's worth adding that an Australian betting syndicate is making big money by identifying small discrepancies between odds on peer to peer exchanges versus bookies, which would be a similar thing taking place.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

You know, everyone thinks that they are the professionals and they know everything better. Just have a look at your life, there are a lot of people who didn't succeed in their life and are average or below average Joes but give you a lot of advices about a lot of things. Some may say that you need to marry ASAP, some may say that you should never marry, some may say that you should get high education, some say that sport pays the better and so on.

The same applies to your question. Maybe in certain moments the spectators can be right because in each different situation, each individual may act differently. People don't know what's happening behind the scene in matches, maybe there was different dialogue/communication between the coach and the plays? Maybe player XYZ asked the coach to play player ZYX instead of him? Maybe coach wants to give a chance to player ZYX to probably shine?
There are really a lot of reasons behind every decision, people just judge it easily.

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Many professional coaches are former players and in addition have so much experience that they in any case know better what strategy to use against a particular team and depending on its composition. In any field, there are armchair critics who think that they know what is best in any given situation.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I can say yes, but not in general.
Spectators or a coach can see everything that is it happens on the ground more than those players on the field. That is why players must have to listen what the coach has been said or else, they will fail. Maybe we could say that they don't have huge experience in a certain sport(like football) but he was able to picture out the best position for a player to make a score by simply looking and understanding the game movement and that is very important as a coach. Even the audience can make their own ideas and strategy by just simply observing the game flow.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

They wont be called coach in the first place if they aren't really good on making out decisions specially if we do talk about formation and crucial formation
which would help out for a certain team to win.

It is just that normal that speculators around would give out their sentiments basing on what they do observe and of course personal suggestions and things
on what they do have in mind.

Overall,i don't really believe that they are much better with those coaches.Why they would tend out to make themselves as a coach? lol

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Quote from: fiulpro on November 08, 2021, 01:30:26 PM

But the coach does know the players by heart, he is the one who spends hours training them therefore the spectators might know a lot about theory, practical but the coach knows more deeply overall.

Simple but meaningful, the coach who worked out with the team knows the players deeper. By the book, maybe spectators know and understand the composition, but chemistry wise that thing belongs to the coach. He can change the directions of the game if he brings someone inside who is not familiar with the system.

I value how coaches determine which player is fit for the role; he knows them by heart and choosing who's going to play is what coach
Job, he needs to make sure that he is bringing the right sets of people. Cool

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I think this is felt by all the football fans in the world, they suddenly know more than every inch of the game. But the fact is not at all much better know. It's just that all the comments that emerged from the audience that he thought were true. But just try this and that comment that is made as a football spectator commentator, it is not necessarily true that he becomes a coach.

Don't be surprised, this is common, fans always comment from behind a glass screen, it doesn't mean you can become a coach or a player on the field.

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I do think it's all dependent on the person who is sitting and studying about all this, my dad who is a big fan of cricket literally, reads every news, article, watches all kinds of arguments, shows, and at the end never misses even a single match. That's how it goes for some people, they are not just into the game but they are wholy dedicated to that particular sports as a well. Therefore I do believe that these kinds of people knows a lot about these things. I do think that their opinion is actually really important, sometimes people can predict exactly what's gonna happen and it usually is a big deal for gaming gambling industry as well, that way they can make a lot of money.

But the coach does know the players by heart, he is the one who spends hours training them therefore the spectators might know a lot about theory, practical but the coach knows more deeply overall.

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I got your point but here's my opinion.

Spectator's opinion is better in his own perspective because all he does know is the information of player xyz, that's all. Like how they play, how effective they are, how better they are. On the other side, in the coach's perspective, he knows it all, the players condition, information, and when he will use them. In sports, the most important thing is the players physical and emotional condition to win the game, and the coach knows it better since he trains them every single day, and that's the spectator's doesn't know about.

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Quote from: cabron on November 08, 2021, 09:10:52 AM

No. Aren't cheerers among the spectators?
The ones who know the sport I guess will have the over view that they see what is going on in the field. I wouldnt say they know better most of the time they just too excited cheering and booing the team they dislike. Coaching would be diffrent, you have to have experience to be able to coach.

Well, the point is that spectators can only see what is happening on the pitch. Apart from the pitch, there are many other things that are extremely important and for a person with no experience almost impossible to organize. After all, it is not only about which player will play in a given match, but the most important thing is to build a team, that is, select and choose players so that they fit to the team.

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It is not as if individuals (spectators) know better than coach when it comes to football , just their are some individuals who have givimg their love to football, they know everything about football this is as a result of passion they have sports . So there is nothing you would ask they don't know about football.

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Quote from: crzy on November 08, 2021, 08:32:34 AM

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

If you’re into that sports then there’s a big chance that you can know a lot of things about sports and you can easily speculate the game especially if you also know the opponent team. Coaches are also trained individual so I don’t think you can be better than them since they play the game according to the rules and of course according to the goals of every team owner. I have big respect on coaches, we can always speculate but coaches will still be a big factor for every players.

We can only speculate but we don't know what's their plan and how they rotate their players, but for sure from that as you said coach are well trained and they will not go on that far if they don't know on what they are doing. But what's happening on the court is part of their game plan although we know sometimes their plan didn't work since there are players struggles but for sure in their next game they correct their flaws and can able to avoid their mistakes by the help of the coach and their team plan.

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No. Aren't cheerers among the spectators?
The ones who know the sport I guess will have the over view that they see what is going on in the field. I wouldnt say they know better most of the time they just too excited cheering and booing the team they dislike. Coaching would be diffrent, you have to have experience to be able to coach.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

People watching football and loving their team have a lot of knowledge about the players and possibly some inside information about their predispositions. Unfortunately, such people will never be able to become professional coaches.
A professional coach must not only have general knowledge, but also a great deal of knowledge of tactics, organization, psychology, even anatomy and much more..

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Physical, strategy, tactical, moral, mental, motivational or so on related to sports, especially football, are owned by professional coaches and applied to players in readiness to be on the field, before the match starts or every day/practice, of course understanding without a coach is difficult to develop for the team, while on the field.

While spectators like you and me who have a passive nature, the pattern of understanding from the audience itself has various noble ideas and gives applause to the team and also inputs to the coach, Actually in the world of football, if it is observed that the audience is smarter than the coaches and players, it is just an illusion, if the audience plays without the coach, it is even worse and the worst happens on the field.

Conclusion: without a coach the understanding of sports especially football is worse.

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Good and unique topic which I think has never been discussed so far in our forum and I believe I can answer the question from both perspectives (as a spectator and a player). I've been representing cricket for the state level in my country for quite a few years and all I can say is that spectators are just meant to watch the game rather than playing it on the field. Playing the game is completely different from watching it and commenting on the player or the coach for playing properly is not good as well. A play can be influenced by various factors and one among them is the placement of certain players in the field at that particular time.

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

This is not true. It's always easier to play FIFA in your PC rather than playing that in the field along with other players. Spectators are mere video game players, though they know the game very well it's quite not possible to guess what is happening in the field.

Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Nope, not possible. Will you be able to become a self-made doctor just by reading various books? Becoming a self made engineer is much more possible than becoming a self made doctor. Similarly, one can never be able to master a team sport like football or cricket without having professional coaching.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

If you’re into that sports then there’s a big chance that you can know a lot of things about sports and you can easily speculate the game especially if you also know the opponent team. Coaches are also trained individual so I don’t think you can be better than them since they play the game according to the rules and of course according to the goals of every team owner. I have big respect on coaches, we can always speculate but coaches will still be a big factor for every players.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

They have certain rotation and game plans to follow although we know that sometimes its really frustrating to see that they are not using our favorite player but for sure the coaching staff knows what they are doing and they know the players well so don't be surprise if something like this occur on the game since sometimes there are players have a bad night and its not good for them to gamble if those player messing up on the floor.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I guess they do but mostly guesses and speculations and it might change due to timing. There are other factors to consider if you're into coaching not just because the player suited on that position but there are times you need to get into larger perspective like players health, the chemistry, luck, etc. This doesn't happen just in football matches but oftentimes like basketball.

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Yes, but it's only a situational-based kind or type of thing. Spectators can often see the wider side of things most of the time due to the fact that they aren't influenced by factors such as stress, pressure, etc. Though as I said, it's an oftentimes situational, or case-by-case basis. It doesn't mean that coaches should be blamed or undermined for what they're doing though, they take in a lot more information than what you're average spectator would, it wouldn't be wrong to say that they try to predict what the future is. Plus, it takes a lot of time, studying, research to do what a coach could do imo.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

just like what ralle14 said, there is a possibility. but most of the time? no. years of experience will give you a better perspective will give you a different perspective of the game and the time you spent with your team will give you a better understanding of what they are capable of. besides, just like what ralle14 said(again) coaches are not just thinking about the current situation.

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Quote from: fortunecrypto on November 08, 2021, 06:44:55 AM

Coaches know every player and they know the conditions of each player before the start of the game, they are the ones who can see how players perform in practice and they study statistics that is why they have assistant coaches to provide them a much detailed analysis on who will field on a particular play, these couch coaches or spectators failed to see, they can appreciate or question a game as it happens but I'm sure they do not know how to set up plays.

Agree on this but on the other hand. We as spectator can see the performance of the team in birds eye view with no string attached, The reason why some coaches fail on managing is because they have there own personal principles and rules to follow even though it's not suitable for his team. That's why most the top coaches that still on this kind of business are those willing to improved and improvised new ways of strategy that is not common on the specific sports they are playing. Typical coach has a pattern which can easily read and predict by the opponent coach while a phenomenal coach do crazy things just to see what's better for his team until he find a suitable game plan that will work to win the game.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Of course, it's possible as long as we love the game because we will make more research to better understand it. As a gambler, I do make sure I know the sport and make my own research, in order to win in sports betting, you need to have the knowledge and understands how certain teams will play against earch other, and like they said, with good knowledge, it will build a skills in sports betting that would make you successful one day.

We fell in love with the sport while we are betting so it's normal to make our suggestions or show our frustrations when we think something wrong was done by the coach, and that wrong decision resulted to losing our bet.

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Quote from: peter0425 on November 08, 2021, 06:32:09 AM

In my own experience ? i think this is more applicable in Chess Game because from my younger years as i played this game , those who are watching knows more the right move than those who is in the table, I am not saying that professional chess players do the same but what i mean are those who are non Pro in which playing in the street or those who plays against their friends .
but among those mentioned above i think this happens also in other sports.

When it comes in coaching it requires tons of experience and trial of error whether such move will be applicable, coaches somehow become the system with flowchart with what ifs this their movem what if he would be against in these team, they create and study methods that can give them opportunity to win. Coaches is needed as we cant track everything, we cant study alot while preparing for matches that needs physical endurance. It will be better to have coaches to guide than rely alone on ourselves.

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Coaches know every player and they know the conditions of each player before the start of the game, they are the ones who can see how players perform in practice and they study statistics that is why they have assistant coaches to provide them a much detailed analysis on who will field on a particular play, these couch coaches or spectators failed to see, they can appreciate or question a game as it happens but I'm sure they do not know how to set up plays.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

This is a difficult question and can hardly be answered unambiguously. On the one hand, outside observers have less information than a coach, therefore their opinion is less based on facts. On the other hand, the coach of the team is trapped in subjectivity - he cannot look at the situation from the outside as he is maximally involved in it. It is probably impossible to understand who is closer to the "truth" in such a situation, since this is a random value and sometimes an outside observer is right, and sometimes a coach.

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Spectators (Couch Coaches) have the luxury to make calm decisions, without any stress at home, because they are not under pressure. A lot of the actual coaches have to make split decisions based on 1000's of strategies that has been discussed with the players in the week before.

The coaches might also have information on the players, that are not available to the spectators. Some use a GPS tracker to track player performance (eg. the number of sprints made, the distance covered, and how the player is dealing with the workload and also nagging injuries to players) Wink

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There's a possibility if you've been following the sport for years and know the strengths and weaknesses of most teams, but at the same time, a lot of people don't understand that coaches have a different way of looking at the current situation, like for example the future teams they'll be facing, instead of putting out another player in the field it's better to let him rest and prepare for a much tougher team in the next couple of days. Also, some teams have a bigger coaching staff so there's probably a deeper understanding of the tactics they've been pulling, and who knows, the players and coaches might've been discussing certain strategies behind the scenes.

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In my own experience ? i think this is more applicable in Chess Game because from my younger years as i played this game , those who are watching knows more the right move than those who is in the table, I am not saying that professional chess players do the same but what i mean are those who are non Pro in which playing in the street or those who plays against their friends .
but among those mentioned above i think this happens also in other sports.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 08, 2021, 05:40:13 AM

I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

I don't think so spectators can only see the actual game, they have no idea what's going on in practice and the condition of every player and the whole team, coaching is not only about giving instruction, it's picking the right people at the right time with the right instruction to come out with a good result, there is a saying player win games coaches lose them.

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I understand that getting a professional knowledge in coaching introduces an individual to aspects of a sport not known by all, but oftentimes i have witnessed individuals (spectators) of a sport, due to extreme love for a sport become masters of a sport so much that it seems almost like they now know the sport better than some coaches.

Whenever a game is going on say football, you always hear such individuals question the coach's line up and tactics, you hear questions like -

-Why is he (the coach) not playing player xyz?
-why did he (the coach) use player xyz instead of players zyx?
-why is he (that is the coach) using this formation instead the other one? and so on.

-Is there a possibility that spectators of a sport like you and i with no professional training can develop a better understanding of a sport than some professional coaches of some teams?

Topic: Do spectators now know better? (Read 417 times)