Topic: Do you believe the 2020 US democratic primary is being rigged? (Read 188 times)

I'm no longer part of either the 18-24 or 18-25 demographic. But I have coworkers and friends who are younger. A lot are just not interested in politics. A few are pro-Trump but can be swayed.

The turnout of young people is always low, previous generations at the same age, voted in similarly low numbers. Gen X turnout was slightly lower (at the same ages) and Baby Boomers (I think birth years 1946-64) voted at slightly higher numbers.

Your joke here is great and there's a truth to it. You could have a million people sign up for a protest online and only a dozen people show up, things like that have happened before. I guess a lot of young people think that, like watching and liking a YouTube video or sharing a post or tweeting a twit will magically get votes for their candidate. There were however, lots of young people who went out into early states in the primaries and knocked on millions of doors.

As for not showing late to work in order to vote, I can admit that it's kind of a weak argument. But let's imagine a scenario here. You're a 23 year old working as a nurse. You go to vote and after waiting for 4 hours the time of your next shift is up. If you don't show up, not only are you making work harder for your co-workers but you're also risking your career and putting your income at risk. Another hour passes, now you're definitely are going to show up a few minutes late. You panic, you leave and you go to work.






I'll reiterate that young people have always voted in smaller numbers, and they only make up a small fraction of the electorate.
Also those who don't vote, have the most right to complain. George Carlin made some good points about that one.
Does in your opinion, every single young person have to vote, and to vote for the same candidate, and then, through some sort of sorcery they all get the right to complain? That's not how it works, it's called freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to complain. And you complaining about people complaining is no more constructive.


Unless your demographic is targeted and it's actually 7 hours for you, or maybe the poll closed before you could get there. Or maybe, someone from the DNC sends you to a different place that is supposedly the right polling place but that information turns out to be incorrect.



Well that's precisely why it's important for our elections to be verifiable. Every vote counts.

Well, this topic and poll is over for me. Thanks for playing. In the spirit of the Iowa caucus I certify the results of this poll to be 3 for yes, and 2 for no, so the ayes have it! The corrected number at the top of this page will not be used as my DNC lawyers are advising me that it's illegal to change the numbers once they are in, man

Last people to actually go out and vote (meaning that most times, they wont) and first people to complain about the results of the election. They blame the old farts for elections the 'wrong people' but by not voting they've voted for the status quo, which is the old farts. I'll never understand it. Voting isn't that hard these days, most states you can mail in and these voting areas are open VERY VERY long.

Take some time out of your day, maybe an hour or two, and go and vote. There's no reason that you can justify not doing so. Don't all the Bernie Bros talk about how Bernie won as a Mayoral candidate by 10 votes? -- Well these young kids can be those 10 votes now.

You really need to learn how exit polls work and what they can or cannot do. Exit polls are weighed throughout the day based on things like expected tunout and demographics, and get skewed by e.g. young people being more likely to fill those polls out (which are completely voluntary and self-guided). Cherry picking exit polls to fit the narrative is asinine. Exit polls can't be used to verify election results but they can be used to gauge demographics, which clearly shows that younglings don't vote, not matter how you slice it.


I guess I should thank you for electing Trump again but I stand to lose a 0.1 BTC bet so I won't.


That's all great but if they don't do what they need to do to get Bernie elected (i.e. don't vote in the primaries) then all that posturing is meaningless. I get that young people are so much smarter than the old farts etc so hopefully they will eventually figure out that twitgramming doesn't elect candidates, voting does.


As I said, all sorts of excuses. Late for work LOL. These are the people who don't hesitate to line up at Target during a pandemic to buy the latest Nintendo game. Now that they will have lost their jobs perhaps there will be no excuses for the remaining primaries?

The exit polls where more accurate before they were adjusted to match machine counts.

The machine counts are not public, they do not leave behind a paper trail. They are untrustworthy.


 
I proudly didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 and I will proudly not vote for Biden if he becomes the nominee in 2020.

You can't blame progressives for not being excited about voting for another polished turd. And you especially can't blame young people. They are a small part of eligible voters and they historically vote in lower numbers.

Despite being maligned here they somehow are voting for a candidate that has a good track record and good policies, while the non-lazy superior great previous generations are voting for a big sack of shit.

The young people were on Bernie's side. Turnout wasn't massive but the numbers, even if you take it from CNN are decidedly on Bernie's side. Something like 60-70% Bernie and only single digits for Biden.


No it's not, especially when the voter suppression happens in minority areas which in turn decreases the apparent minority support. Also it decreases the apparent youth vote turnout. Especially when you have one polling place for 40,000 people where most those people are going to be students.

Can you blame people for leaving when it takes 5 hours and they are going to be late for work putting their income in jeopardy?

Also absentee voting doesn't happen in every state. Also people should not be denied the vote because they didn't plan things in advance. Also certain people were through manipulation denied the opportunity to even have Bernie as an option in mail-in ballots.


I knew it from the start that Bernie would have to Over-win to win this contest. I knew it last time too and it's just not right.

Voter suppression is secondary, election rigging is the primary thing here. There is evidence, and only a small part of it has been exposed. It's like an Iceberg, and unless someone out there exposes it we'll never see it.

Edit: Relevant Case:

Title: Bernie Is Being Cheated Again. Will He Fight? w/Tim Canova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI--5Y-Sst0

+1 to this entire thing.

In 2016 there was actually issues though, as the DNC had been setting up join fundraising accounts with Clinton while Bernie was still in the race. This obviously is going against ethics of any regular person, which we understand. -- Here is a good article on the matter (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774)

But at the end of the day, even if the DNC was in financial cahoots with the Clinton Campaign, Bernie voters could've changed that with going out and voting for him in large numbers.

Young people just don't go out and vote. That's how we can sum this entire thing up. Young people are going to complain and complain about the candidate that is chosen, but they could've changed it if they fucking vote.

To see that this is true - or at least that the Parties are not what they claim - is to do some serious checking on the platforms of both parties over the years. They BOTH constantly swap positions and ideals back and forth.

For simple example, over the last 15 years, look at what Trump and Obama both said about people coming up over the border from Mexico. They have jumped back and forth with their ideas... sometimes freedom for illegals, and sometimes persecution/prosecution for illegals.

It's been this way with all kinds of things right back to the 1950s.

I think that the people are being played.

damn that is some real insight. nice.

much as the who once sang.  “ meet the new boss same as the old boss”

The rigging is in the whole political situation. After all, the Bush's were Republicans who got elected. But the Democrats never brought up the fact that Grandfather Bush supported Hitler in WW2 in a big way. So people elected the Bush's not realizing they were kids of a traitor.

So you can see the rigging. If the Dems were for real, they would bring the truth (like the facts regarding Prescott Bush that they kept hidden) into the public.

The Democrat Party is simply, covertly, an arm of the Republican party.

Well, if you can't see at least some level of shitfuckery in this situation, you're the one not facing reality. I'm not a 9/11 truther, nor do I believe the moon landing was faked, nor that the level of mercury in vaccines is harmful. I'm not one of those people trapped in believing every single conspiracy theory there is out there to believe.

I think the Iowa caucus was certifiably meddled with. It was observable by the public, so to appropriately quote X-files, the truth is out there.

I'm not saying that it's all a charade, and that voting doesn't matter. But if you can through whatever manipulation, change outcomes to make it harder for a candidate to win, that's wrong.

Perhaps if we change the voting system to preferential voting, we'd break the two party system, and all those electability arguments and the DNC's stranglehold over the progressives would ease a little bit.

Don't tell me, you're a Bernie supporter and so you're looking for excuses instead of facing facts. The majority of people don't want some "revolution". They want stability and for their government to fix what exists for the most part. But hey. If you can't face reality then go ahead and live in some conspiracy bubble. You can find "proof" for any conspiracy out there if you really want to in order to support your bias. Doesn't make it true in the least.

Pete and Klobuchar are free to act as they want. And Warren is free to backstab Bernie as she pleases.

The only endorsement that "stinks" of manipulation is Yang's.

It's possible that the DNC threatened to blacklist Yang unless he endorsed Biden. Basically what they did to Tulsi Gabbard during the last primary.

It's not a coincidence that she's getting smeared by the media. It's not a coincidence that Hillary got out of her cave to call her a Russian asset.

Here's the e-mail that Tulsi got for supporting Bernie back during the last cycle



Yang probably got the same treatment. Considering he clearly wants to side with Bernie.

(Here's a video about the Yang situation)
Title: Why Did Andrew Yang REALLY Endorse Biden?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSbLj8JZqQ

I hate the DNC/Media establishment.

The only "rigged" part is the entire democratic party backing Joe Biden prior to Super Tuesday. It's not a coincidence that Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg dropped out of the race to endorse Biden followed by a Beto endorsement on the same day. The establishment democrats absolutely colluded to derail Bernie's campaign and it's blatantly obvious. You combine this with the fact that Warren purposefully stayed in the race despite having a zero chance of winning on Super Tuesday then proceeding to drop out 2 days later without endorsing Bernie.

You tell me, is that rigging the primaries or not? To me, that sure as hell is and I sincerely hope Trump wins in November to make the democratic party regret following the same path they did in 2016.

Oh come on...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/no-huge-red-flag-that-fraud-occurred-in-mass-primary/

There is more than zero evidence as a matter of fact.

Popular Mechanics had an article looking over a small fraction of the numbers in Iowa: (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a30810883/iowa-caucuses-math-errors/)


That's only a small part of the picture, but "mistake" after "mistake" it always went against Bernie.


Here's an excerpt from an article from the Guardian Titled: California's rules for independent party voters could suppress the Bernie vote


So, if a young person in California ends up having the choice to either wait 5 hours in line and vote, or piss off their boss and get their hours cut, I wouldn't blame them for not voting.


About the exit polls I'm going to use some numbers from TDMS research, who cite their numbers.

Texas primary:



Michigan


California



Vermont


Massachusetts


South Carolina


New Hampshire

Yes, it's rigged by the same people who rigged it in 2016 - lazy millennials/X/Y/Z/whatever-the-fuck-comes-after-Z who support Bernie when polled but can't get off their asses to actually vote. There is lots of evidence of that (exit polls, turnout numbers) and zero evidence of actual voting fraud/manipulation. Voter suppression is a meaningless argument in a primary, particularly when the winning candidate has a significant minority support. Also there's absentee/mail-in voting.

The worst thing you can do now is to come up with conspiracy theories to justify it. Then don't show up in November and complain about Trump for the next 4 years.

I agree. Last time I voted, there was a paper ballot that you inserted into a machine. Then you would check the boxes with a pen. Then it somehow generated a square code with your checkboxes and printed it on the ballot.

So this is a hybrid - a paper ballot that absolutely could be manually tabulated, but which also could be machine read.

Clever!

I think that there was fraud. In Iowa where the voting process was observable by the public I think the case is really easy to make. The officials vote count was wrong, they knew it was wrong and yet they made a weak legal defense to keep the wrong numbers which were against Bernie.

To be clear, I don't think Pete, Bloomberg and Klobuchar dropping out and endorsing Biden is rigging people are free to support whoever they want.


Past Iowa, the use of voting machines, voter suppression via closing polling places in minority areas and having in one case 1 polling place for 40,000 students (https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/5/air_berman_voting_delays_super_tuesday) these things don't happen by themselves.

I think that we should all demand, no matter our politics that our elections are observable by the public and leave a paper trail, like other countries. Voting machines should be banned and votes should be counted publicly. The process has to be protected.

No I don't think so, i think that this was the democratic process at work. If you want to argue about a state being open or closed primary system or something like that, I'd be able to entertain it. But I don't think these discrepencies changed the vote in anyway and I think we're fine when it comes to peoples votes actually counting.

If you want to say that the three moderates backing Biden at the same time and dropping out at perfect time before Super Tuesday is rigged? Then I'd have to disagree with you (not saying you as OP, just in general) because while that may not be ethical in your mind -- the voters did still decide that they would be going from one moderate (Klobuchar, Pete) to Biden. So I think that's just the democratic process at work here.

I don't think so.

I don't believe the results I'm seeing are accurate. Iowa had discrepancies. Texas seemed to have suppressed the vote and there where rumors of ballots being lost. There are posts showing exit polls differing from results massively and almost universally for Biden.

I still haven't seen a single person with a Biden sticker or a Biden T-shirt or a Biden yard sign. I am aware that older people and people who are not following politics closely support Biden by default.

That default Biden support + the media narrative is a valid explanation why Biden is winning. The media condemns talk of rigged elections with a number of talking points but they all ring hollow to me.

Here's a source for the uncounted votes in Dallas:

Title: Judge Orders Recount of Dallas County Ballots Found to Have Discrepancies
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/hearing-underway-for-request-to-recount-dallas-county-election-ballots/2327637/
Archived Version: https://web.archive.org/web/20200314141242/https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/politics/hearing-underway-for-request-to-recount-dallas-county-election-ballots/2327637/

I'm too burned out to look for evidence that the primaries were rigged and I'm not an expert. But my gut feeling is that it is.

I tried looking for a good source for exit polls but I couldn't find it. I don't trust most of the major media as it's funded by the same people who back Biden. Now it seems that Google and YouTube are suppressing views not endorsed by the Mainstream media who are run by and for the benefit of the billionaires.

Anyone caught rigging the elections needs to be punished and branded for life and lose the right to vote in any and all subsequent elections until the end of time. That seems like a fair punishment.

You try to take other people's votes, you get your own taken away as part of the punishment package.

Edit: Something else that's suspicious

Title:WATCH: Station Airs Biden-Sanders Results Graphic Day Before Election
https://heavy.com/news/2020/03/biden-bernie-primary-results-aired-early-video/?fbclid=IwAR3bMHHnhPZr_6hD5Pm03W5_F4wMhh3Zw7vCD5zHzXKloaaEqlNEQFapuvY

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20200318032229/https://heavy.com/news/2020/03/biden-bernie-primary-results-aired-early-video/?fbclid=IwAR3bMHHnhPZr_6hD5Pm03W5_F4wMhh3Zw7vCD5zHzXKloaaEqlNEQFapuvY/