Topic: Do You Eject Your Hardware Wallet Before Disconnecting It from Your Computer? (Read 238 times)
July 12, 2021, 04:28:46 AM
Aside from USB storage drive, i never safely eject/unmount USB hardware (including hardware wallet). In fact windows and few linux distro doesn't even have option to safely eject/unmount USB hardware (which isn't storage drive).
July 12, 2021, 09:24:19 PM
On Windows 10 at least, it's generally not even an issue for storage media any more: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300734/microsoft-safely-remove-eject-usb-flash-drive-not-needed-windows-10
Granted, if you do it in the middle of actually transferring data to/from the drive, things will most likely break... but if the file transfer "appears" to have finished, then yanking the USB drive out is not going to break anything.
It definitely was an issue with earlier versions of Windows... A while ago (was either Windows 2000 or XP), I found out about the write caching the hard way. I was in a hurry (running late as usual) and as soon as Windows showed the transfer had "finished", I yanked the drive and headed off to a friends place... got there (after driving all the way across town) to discover the data on the drive was corrupted
Granted, if you do it in the middle of actually transferring data to/from the drive, things will most likely break... but if the file transfer "appears" to have finished, then yanking the USB drive out is not going to break anything.
It definitely was an issue with earlier versions of Windows... A while ago (was either Windows 2000 or XP), I found out about the write caching the hard way. I was in a hurry (running late as usual) and as soon as Windows showed the transfer had "finished", I yanked the drive and headed off to a friends place... got there (after driving all the way across town) to discover the data on the drive was corrupted
July 11, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
- While I'm at it, I've never done that when it comes to USBs as well .
I guess you like to live dangerously like this bad boy.
July 11, 2021, 07:22:03 AM
Like most of the other users in here, I've never ejected my hardware wallet safely, prior to unplugging it...
- While I'm at it, I've never done that when it comes to USBs as well [I do know about the issues that may arise but personally, I've never encountered one].
Update:
- While I'm at it, I've never done that when it comes to USBs as well [I do know about the issues that may arise but personally, I've never encountered one].
Update:
I guess you like to live dangerously like this bad boy.
https://breakbrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/live-dangerously-091915-12.jpg
You just made my day https://breakbrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/live-dangerously-091915-12.jpg
July 11, 2021, 02:44:27 AM
I guess that depends on the system settings.
Correct. Some OS's will use a cache which will continue to be written to the USB drive in the background even when you appear to have finished all your write operations, and some OS's will not use such a cache. In these scenarios, the concern is with unplugging the device when you think you are finished with it but actually the cache is still writing to it in the background, resulting in the write process being interrupted and corrupting the files. If your OS uses such a cache, then you need to safely "remove", "eject", "unmount", or whatever the drive prior to unplugging it. If your OS does not use such a cache, then it is safe to unplug any time you aren't actively writing to (so, in the case of hardware wallets, that would mean not upgrading the firmware or software).Some OS's will let you configure whether or not you use such a cache. In terms of Windows as The Pharmacist asked, I understand that the default policy was changed at the end up last year to mean you can pull any USB device any time you are not writing to it without the need to "eject" it: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/client-management/change-default-removal-policy-external-storage-media
July 11, 2021, 02:00:13 AM
But when you click on eject device, what does it show in the bottom right corner in a windows computer when you do that?
You will hear the standard USB connected/disconnected sound and a notification will appear telling you that it is now safe to disconnect your device from the USB port.In fact, some of the times I've tried, that icon in Windows that allows you to eject a device safely doesn't even appear--so I figure why bother?
I guess that depends on the system settings. I have 2 laptops and a desktop PC I use depending on where I am and what I do. The two laptops share the same USB mouse. When I connect it to one laptop, the safely eject icon becomes visible. That's the same laptop where my Ledger Live is installed on as well. The same icon also appears for my Nano S. The other laptop doesn't show the icon when I connect the same USB mouse to it. 
July 10, 2021, 06:03:51 PM
There is no need to "eject" a hardware wallet from your computer as you would do with a mass storage device. As long as you don't unplug it when you are actively upgrading the firmware or installing/uninstalling apps or software on it, then you are perfectly safe.
Good to hear that, because 99% of the time (and it's probably more than that in reality) I don't eject mine "safely". In fact, some of the times I've tried, that icon in Windows that allows you to eject a device safely doesn't even appear--so I figure why bother? I've never encountered any trouble with the hardware wallets I've used, so I've just always assumed that it wasn't necessary to do anything other than disconnect them.With USB drives or anything else, I am careful enough to eject them safely. No need to take chances when it's easy enough to do it right. But with a Ledger (the only HW wallet I really ever use) I've never found it problematic. Nor am I hearing any horror stories from people, so I assume it's safe to keep doing what I've been doing.
Good topic for a thread, OP. It might seem trivial to some, but I learned something from Leo that I didn't know, whom I also thank.
July 10, 2021, 04:26:29 PM
I never actually thought about this. I might have done this once or maybe twice a long time ago. But when you click on eject device, what does it show in the bottom right corner in a windows computer when you do that?
July 10, 2021, 12:10:14 PM
The only time ejecting a mass storage device without "safely removing" it damages it is when you have write-back buffers enabled for the device in Device Manager, which is explicitly disabled by default for this very reason. USBs generally do not need this feature (let alone hardware wallets) because their small storage size doesn't expect fast writing times, and it's more common that it's used in external hard disks.
July 10, 2021, 11:38:31 AM
I never do this either and the power of my Hardware Wallets has been cut multiple times before through power cuts, laptop battery running out or random PC shutdowns at times. Never ran through issues with my Hardware Wallets either. The chances of messing up your Hardware Wallet by unplugging without ejecting is probably the same as corrupting your phone by unplugging its data cable while transferring files to or from it would be if I am not mistaken. Had this happening many times before as well but my phones never got corrupted afterwards.
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Regards,
PrivacyG
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Regards,
PrivacyG
July 10, 2021, 07:20:50 AM
Hardware wallets are not functioning same like hard drives and usb cable connection only purpose is to power the device, so they are not used for storing big amounts of data.
The USB cable can and will still transfer data even when not updating the firmware or apps on the device, such as when Electrum looks for the unlocked hardware wallet to decrypt the wallet file, or when transferring signed and unsigned transactions. The difference is there is no cache of data which is waiting to be written or in the process of being written to the USB device's filesystem, which you could corrupt by unplugging the device. If you unplug the device while you are in the process of transferring or signing a transaction, then the worst that happens is that that transaction isn't signed correctly or lost and you have to create it again.Not sure if hardware wallets function in a similar fashion, and could such a process break down during a transaction broadcast.
Sure, if you unplug the device before the transaction is broadcast then your transaction will be lost. Your device will still work just fine when you plug it back in though, since at no point were you writing anything to a critical filesystem.Once the transaction info is transferred to the screen of a hardware wallet, you sign and broadcast it by pressing the buttons on the device. Does it still communicate with the software on the computer once the send transaction button is pressed, or does it all happen on the device from there on out?
It has to communicate with the software on the computer at this point. The hardware wallet does not have the capabilities nor the software to broadcast a transaction on its own. It simply transfers the signed transaction back to the wallet software on your computer to be broadcast. July 10, 2021, 06:29:39 AM
The votes so far show that 2 people safely eject their hardware wallets before disconnecting them. Honestly, I expected around 100% of the votes to be for 'NO'.
I remember reading about the process of copying files to a USB device. During the event, your operating system could copy the files to its cache first, and from there save them onto your USB drive. This is a quick process, but in the event that a USB-device gets disconnected during it, data losses can appear. Not sure if hardware wallets function in a similar fashion, and could such a process break down during a transaction broadcast.
Once the transaction info is transferred to the screen of a hardware wallet, you sign and broadcast it by pressing the buttons on the device. Does it still communicate with the software on the computer once the send transaction button is pressed, or does it all happen on the device from there on out?
I remember reading about the process of copying files to a USB device. During the event, your operating system could copy the files to its cache first, and from there save them onto your USB drive. This is a quick process, but in the event that a USB-device gets disconnected during it, data losses can appear. Not sure if hardware wallets function in a similar fashion, and could such a process break down during a transaction broadcast.
Once the transaction info is transferred to the screen of a hardware wallet, you sign and broadcast it by pressing the buttons on the device. Does it still communicate with the software on the computer once the send transaction button is pressed, or does it all happen on the device from there on out?
July 10, 2021, 05:10:05 AM
I would like to know, are you safely ejecting your hardware wallets before disconnecting them, or do you just pull them out of your computer?
I never safe ejected hardware wallets from my computer, often times I also forget to do that for regular USB drives and I never experienced any issues so far.Hardware wallets are not functioning same like hard drives and usb cable connection only purpose is to power the device, so they are not used for storing big amounts of data.
However, disconnecting power cable during firmware update for hardware wallet could result in breaking you device, or creating some issues.
July 10, 2021, 04:06:36 AM
There is no need to "eject" a hardware wallet from your computer
Thank you for the reassuring.
I've never looked for the "eject" for the HW since I've never thought it would be needed. So I've always simply unplugged mine.
This thread scared me a little, thinking that I may have been at risk to destroy my HW; but the actual links/documentation just settles this for good.
July 10, 2021, 03:13:20 AM
There is no need to "eject" a hardware wallet from your computer as you would do with a mass storage device. As long as you don't unplug it when you are actively upgrading the firmware or installing/uninstalling apps or software on it, then you are perfectly safe. See the following quotes from both Ledger and Trezor staff regarding this issue:
I have never ejected either Ledger or Trezor devices and always just unplugged them when I was finished using them, and have never ran in to problems with either.
Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/9e69ql/how_can_i_safely_remove_ledger_wallet_from_pc/e5mh4oq/
You can unplug it safely at any time.
The need to "eject USB" usually is for USB sticks for the system to properly unmount the disk (finish flushing the files, etc..) and does not apply for the Ledger device.
The need to "eject USB" usually is for USB sticks for the system to properly unmount the disk (finish flushing the files, etc..) and does not apply for the Ledger device.
As correctly mentioned in the comment section, you can eject it whenever you want. The eject option in the app has the effect only for the app, so it either remembers or forgets your wallet according to your preference (this is so-called watch-only mode, it's limited to only checking chekcing balances, but signing transactions requires Trezor to be connected again to sign it with private keys).
I have never ejected either Ledger or Trezor devices and always just unplugged them when I was finished using them, and have never ran in to problems with either.
July 10, 2021, 03:03:21 AM
Sometimes.
Because the fucking shit drive refuses to stop itself and windows don't let me eject the mother fucker. What could I do? I haven't gotten a problem like this since the day I switched to linux but I still do that thing because it is an old habit.
The way I see it, "safely remove" only checks if the hardware is in use currently or not, and tries to stop it if it is. Windows fails at stopping disks sometimes but Linux has been great at it so far.
Because the fucking shit drive refuses to stop itself and windows don't let me eject the mother fucker. What could I do? I haven't gotten a problem like this since the day I switched to linux but I still do that thing because it is an old habit.
The way I see it, "safely remove" only checks if the hardware is in use currently or not, and tries to stop it if it is. Windows fails at stopping disks sometimes but Linux has been great at it so far.
July 10, 2021, 02:54:33 AM
If your computer is not transferring any data at all but just reading files and the USB is just removed while not first ejected from the computer, it may result to hanging of the computer that may require system reboot, but if data are been transferred in case of USB, the major problem that can result is the lost of data. Although, hardware wallet has no file to transfer but removing the USB directly without ejecting it first could lead to your computer misbehaving until you reboot it, this alone should be a good reason to first eject the drive from the computer before removing the USB, this will even make many people to feel secure and operating their hardware wallet safely, it takes less than 10 seconds to eject it. But, I do not think this has anything to do with the hardware wallet safety so far you have finished making transaction.
July 10, 2021, 01:58:05 AM
Is there any problem in removing it from USB port unless it is transferring data?
I don't know what would happen if you were to disconnect your hardware wallet during the transaction signing and broadcasting process for example. Of course, I am not going to try it to find out. I have never seen a thread were someone complained about creating a corrupted output where a loss of electricity, failure of the computer OS, or something like that resulted in the loss of money. I wonder if there is a short moment in time during the broadcasting process that could cause a transaction to simple disappear. I doubt it. 
July 10, 2021, 01:46:46 AM
Is there any problem in removing it from USB port unless it is transferring data?
AFAIK, The only problem lies in physically removing the device before the data transfer is completed, and thus part of this process fails and the need to return the USB to complete it.
In general, I am not careful and do not remember that I took out my hardware wallet safely before unplugging them.
AFAIK, The only problem lies in physically removing the device before the data transfer is completed, and thus part of this process fails and the need to return the USB to complete it.
In general, I am not careful and do not remember that I took out my hardware wallet safely before unplugging them.
July 10, 2021, 01:36:07 AM
When using a USB-connected device such as a flash drive, external hard disk, or a hardware wallet, your operating system allows you to safely eject the device before removing it from the USB port.
When the eject feature is initiated, the system stops any read or write operations potentially running in the background. If such work was to be abruptly interrupted, a possible negative consequence for the device could be data corruption. The chances for that to happen are slim, but they exist.
When we are talking about hardware wallets, they are different from standard USB flash drives because you aren’t copying data from your computer to it and vice versa. However, a connected hardware wallet can also be ejected safely before being physically removed from the USB port.
In this poll, I would like to know, are you safely ejecting your hardware wallets before disconnecting them, or do you just pull them out of your computer?
In all the years of using a hardware wallet, I have to be honest and confess I have ejected it maybe 2 or 3 times. I feel like I should be more careful with it in the future.
When the eject feature is initiated, the system stops any read or write operations potentially running in the background. If such work was to be abruptly interrupted, a possible negative consequence for the device could be data corruption. The chances for that to happen are slim, but they exist.
When we are talking about hardware wallets, they are different from standard USB flash drives because you aren’t copying data from your computer to it and vice versa. However, a connected hardware wallet can also be ejected safely before being physically removed from the USB port.
In this poll, I would like to know, are you safely ejecting your hardware wallets before disconnecting them, or do you just pull them out of your computer?
In all the years of using a hardware wallet, I have to be honest and confess I have ejected it maybe 2 or 3 times. I feel like I should be more careful with it in the future.
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