Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts?

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Quote from: ImThour on September 22, 2024, 12:38:48 PM

I simply hate contracts on Bitcoin network. I remember there was a shitcoin on Bitcoin Chain and it ruined the fees on the Bitcoin Chain and also, each transaction was taking like 1 hour on average to get processed. I do not want any shitcoins or similar web3 projects on Bitcoin, they can keep all of it on other platforms like Ethereum and Solana. Keep Bitcoin safe from these web3 geeks.

Bitcoin is a project that was created in the 21st century, but it will also exist in the 22nd century. The last Bitcoin will be mined around 2140.

What will Bitcoin be like in the 22nd century? Will it really remain unchanged? Exactly the same as it is now?

In my opinion, Bitcoin should also develop technologically. Various alternative cryptocurrencies are essentially experimental laboratories. They test various technological, software, financial and social innovations. The best of them (I believe) will eventually be implemented in Bitcoin.

Therefore, I am quite tolerant of projects such as ordinals and runes, despite the fact that they negatively affect the size of commissions in the Bitcoin network.

Experiments are also needed. All this will make the Bitcoin network better and more useful for users in the future.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 22, 2024, 12:50:39 PM

Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 03:21:19 PM

I looked at brief descriptions of quite a few L2 projects. Isn't there at least one or more which do not use new tokens, they are a "true layer on top" which helps give Bitcoin more powerful smart contracts?

The only "true layer on top", sufficiently developed and actively researched and maintained is Lightning. Everything else is just another blockchain.

In addition, most of those layer 2 are highly centralized[1] or doesn't even require Bitcoin blockchain to remain operational[2].

[1] https://www.bitcoinlayers.org/
[2] https://blockspace.media/insight/most-bitcoin-layer-2s-are-marketing-scams/

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

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"I really wish BTC supported smart contracts"
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Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Yes, because they are basically on top of the bitcoin blockchain so it doesn’t affect actual bitcoins because the native bitcoin blockchain does not really support smart contracts. There’s also WBTC, which is again not actual bitcoins, that is on the ethereum blockchain that can be used in smart contracts. It’s just basically erc20 that is pegged 1:1 to bitcoin.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Yes, I know it's in the ecosystem, but it's not real Bitcoin. And I don't know whether the L2 project in the Bitcoin ecosystem can damage the actual Bitcoin or not.

Am I aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet? The answer is no, I'm still a beginner here, still want to know many things about the existing ecosystem.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Honestly, the contracts supported on Bitcoin are limited in their use case, like using Taproot smart contracts with limited features, but when it comes to smart contract experience as we see in the ETH's ecosystem as DeFi and other Dapps, it's because of the limitations with language.

For L2 as you've said they dont damage the main chain agreed, but they are not the main chain this is what we need to realize.

Disruptivas

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Some months ago I try to create a ''taxonomy'' for Bitcoin ecosystem

A few months ago I tried to create a ''taxonomy'' for the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Trying to define what is what, existe three kind of bitcoin solutions:

- Meta-Protocols: Token on Bitcoin Blockchain - as Ordinals & Tokens BRC-20
- Tokens/Protocols that ''use'' Bitcoin Blockchain: Bob, Stacks, Merlin, LN
- Protocols with incomes-tokens relative to Bitcoin token/price: all stake/re-stake solutions.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 03:21:19 PM

I looked at brief descriptions of quite a few L2 projects. Isn't there at least one or more which do not use new tokens, they are a "true layer on top" which helps give Bitcoin more powerful smart contracts?

The only "true layer on top", sufficiently developed and actively researched and maintained is Lightning. Everything else is just another blockchain.

Quote from: Ambatman on September 19, 2024, 03:36:37 PM

Taro and RGB don't have their own native token but try to stick and integrate more with the Bitcoin Blockchain doesn't mean itself that Bitcoin supports advanced smart contracts.

Both Taro and RGB are not reusing bitcoin as currency. They are networks that issue new assets. You cannot enter with a bitcoin amount in any of those networks and be certain that you will return back on-chain with the same amount. There's no on-chain transaction which will can be broadcasted in case you want to unilaterally return some of those assets for bitcoin.

ImThour

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I simply hate contracts on Bitcoin network. I remember there was a shitcoin on Bitcoin Chain and it ruined the fees on the Bitcoin Chain and also, each transaction was taking like 1 hour on average to get processed. I do not want any shitcoins or similar web3 projects on Bitcoin, they can keep all of it on other platforms like Ethereum and Solana. Keep Bitcoin safe from these web3 geeks.

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While it is true that projects of Layer 2 are highly contributing to the functionality of Bitcoin, it should be frankly noted that between the original Bitcoin blockchain and the Bitcoin ecosystem created by these L2 solutions lie great differences. The Bitcoin blockchain itself remains a secure, decentralized, and immutable repository for storage and transfer. Its main function has been to sustain the integrity and security of transactions about Bitcoin, done through its consensus mechanism called proof-of-work.

Nevertheless, we shouldn't ignore the fact that not all L2 scaling solutions are risk-free. The greater the intricacy of a system, the more challenging it will be to maintain security, where users might show concern for the trust models such systems introduce. While these scaling solutions increase the feature set for Bitcoin, they also make it dependent on other secondary systems, like the Liquid Network's federated consensus, which may also introduce centralization concerns.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 03:21:19 PM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 19, 2024, 12:35:18 PM

The Bitcoin network does not support advanced smart contracts, or more advanced than it already has. Separate networks do support them, but they do not use bitcoin as currency. Sidechains, specifically, such as Stacks or Rootstock, while they do make use of the Proof-of-Work being done on the Layer 1, they mint their own tokens, which should be viewed more as altcoins than Bitcoin, IMO.

I looked at brief descriptions of quite a few L2 projects. Isn't there at least one or more which do not use new tokens, they are a "true layer on top" which helps give Bitcoin more powerful smart contracts? ....and all the transactions are securely settled in BTC. Yes, I did see at least one of those, I think.

Taro and RGB don't have their own native token but try to stick and integrate more with the Bitcoin Blockchain doesn't mean itself that Bitcoin supports advanced smart contracts.
For example a Man with a Gun can kill easily doesn't mean the man himself can kill another easily.
Holding a Gun doesn't change their biology or who they are
It makes them better at killing.
Now take Layer 2 as the Gun and Bitcoin as the man.

Mongodb Tablespace

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The Bitcoin Blockchain is a secure store of data, and if brilliant people are able to increase it's usefulness - without using altcoins/tokens, then that is a really good thing.

Quote from: BitGoba on September 19, 2024, 01:47:32 PM

Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

Quote

"I really wish BTC supported smart contracts"
source = quoting someone here==https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5504749.msg64549935#msg64549935

BTC transactions can now be securely integrated with advanced smart contracts! There are a bunch of recent L2 projects (Layer 2) which provide genuine Bitcoins with much more usefulness and functionality than before. While Telegram is "pay-to-tap" the real developers have been busy!

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Bitcoin is a decentralized neutral monetary protocol with a hard form of money. Bitcoin is not like scam shitcoins it doesn't need any other purpose of use
Bitcoin does not need any smart contracts or NFTs. The only role of Bitcoin is to be money, and throughout history, money has taken many forms, from glass beads, shells, copper, lead, aluminum, silver, to cattle and gold. However, money consistently serves only three functions: a store of value, a unit of account, and a medium of exchange.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 19, 2024, 12:35:18 PM

The Bitcoin network does not support advanced smart contracts, or more advanced than it already has. Separate networks do support them, but they do not use bitcoin as currency. Sidechains, specifically, such as Stacks or Rootstock, while they do make use of the Proof-of-Work being done on the Layer 1, they mint their own tokens, which should be viewed more as altcoins than Bitcoin, IMO.

I looked at brief descriptions of quite a few L2 projects. Isn't there at least one or more which do not use new tokens, they are a "true layer on top" which helps give Bitcoin more powerful smart contracts? ....and all the transactions are securely settled in BTC. Yes, I did see at least one of those, I think.

FYI: The OP has been edited:
Edit #1: The Bitcoin Blockchain is a secure store of data, and if brilliant people are able to increase it's usefulness - without using altcoins/tokens, then that is a really good thing.

Edit #2: The Title says Bitcoin Ecosystem (Blockchain) not BTC coin. Please, read the details, thank you.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: BitGoba on September 19, 2024, 01:47:32 PM

However, money consistently serves only three functions: a store of value, a unit of account, and a medium of exchange.

The problem with Bitcoin is the last one. To be comfortable to use as medium of exchange, it needs to become practical to use at a scale of hundreds of millions of people. But, even after 15 years of active research, it still cannot satisfy this criterion. There are other second layers developing as we speak, which will presumably solve the scalability problem to a great extent, but self-custody of Bitcoin will likely remain less appealing compared to the convenience of entrusting it to third parties, like banks.

Only the people who will truly acknowledge the value of self-custody will bear that cost.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

Quote

"I really wish BTC supported smart contracts"
source = quoting someone here==https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5504749.msg64549935#msg64549935

BTC transactions can now be securely integrated with advanced smart contracts! There are a bunch of recent L2 projects (Layer 2) which provide genuine Bitcoins with much more usefulness and functionality than before. While Telegram is "pay-to-tap" the real developers have been busy!

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Is this not one of the reasons why we will keep advising that not everything you see online are true, we cannot accept whatever they said online, some are doing so in other to just get traffic to their platform because they know that once you heard about something new and uncommon, you will hasten up try to read about it, that is why some of them were sugar coated mouth and are only being sponsored for doing that, bitcoin network cannot be combined with smart contract, even though they all make use of the blockchain technology, their networks are different.

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Quote from: Mongodb Tablespace on September 19, 2024, 12:17:38 PM

Quote

"I really wish BTC supported smart contracts"
source = quoting someone here==https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5504749.msg64549935#msg64549935

BTC transactions can now be securely integrated with advanced smart contracts! There are a bunch of recent L2 projects (Layer 2) which provide genuine Bitcoins with much more usefulness and functionality than before. While Telegram is "pay-to-tap" the real developers have been busy!

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Bitcoin is a decentralized neutral monetary protocol with a hard form of money. Bitcoin is not like scam shitcoins it doesn't need any other purpose of use
Bitcoin does not need any smart contracts or NFTs. The only role of Bitcoin is to be money, and throughout history, money has taken many forms, from glass beads, shells, copper, lead, aluminum, silver, to cattle and gold. However, money consistently serves only three functions: a store of value, a unit of account, and a medium of exchange.

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I also think L2 layers are not genuinely a Bitcoin network but the issuer's token's network. Since Bitcoin programmability is limited I do not think that it can support advanced smart contracts unless it is done outside the natural layer of Bitcoin. But as long as these L2 layers are not as intrusive as BRC-20 that affect the Bitcoin network congestion, I do not mind them developing this kind of smart contract because it enhances the applicability of Bitcoin to real-life case use.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on September 19, 2024, 12:35:18 PM

The Bitcoin network does not support advanced smart contracts, or more advanced than it already has. Separate networks do support them, but they do not use bitcoin as currency. Sidechains, specifically, such as Stacks or Rootstock, while they do make use of the Proof-of-Work being done on the Layer 1, they mint their own tokens, which should be viewed more as altcoins than Bitcoin, IMO.

I agree, anything outside the Bitcoin network that issues a coin or token is an altcoin.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

The Bitcoin network does not support advanced smart contracts, or more advanced than it already has. Separate networks do support them, but they do not use bitcoin as currency. Sidechains, specifically, such as Stacks or Rootstock, while they do make use of the Proof-of-Work being done on the Layer 1, they mint their own tokens, which should be viewed more as altcoins than Bitcoin, IMO.

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Edit #1: The Bitcoin Blockchain is a secure store of data, and if brilliant people are able to increase it's usefulness - without using altcoins/tokens, then that is a really good thing.

Edit #2: The Title says Bitcoin Ecosystem (Blockchain) not BTC coin. Please, read the details, thank you.

Quote

"I really wish BTC supported smart contracts"
source = quoting someone here==https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5504749.msg64549935#msg64549935

BTC transactions can now be securely integrated with advanced smart contracts! There are a bunch of recent L2 projects (Layer 2) which provide genuine Bitcoins with much more usefulness and functionality than before. While Telegram is "pay-to-tap" the real developers have been busy!

Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? Are you aware L2 projects (Layer 2) do not "damage or threaten" actual Bitcoins? They are adding powerful extra features in a layer on top of the actual Bitcoin blockchain.

Question: Are you aware of and/or using any of these new projects yet?

Topic: Do you know the Bitcoin Ecosystem now supports advanced smart contracts? (Read 186 times)