Topic: Do you think it is fair to save merits for high-quality, low-ranked members? (Read 1198 times)

I'm locking the topic because I think that no much is going to be added. Actually, some of the latest post are repetitive.

I’d only like to add that I finally decided to give merits to Hero members, as they also need to rank up and 500 merits is a long way to go.

I think merits shouldn't be given out under any form of strategy as it should be donated to the member you think for you and to you reads like a high quality post because otherwise once you'd merit those who you think need it you'd also expect favors back, and things will get messier.

I do exactly this. Giving merits to only high quality posts of lower ranked members. Cause this way, there will be stability and less complaints.

By the way, are you using this account far less often than the main one? I don’t see you getting many credits here, and I wonder if it is because you post less with this account or because there is a bias because of your rank, and many people who see your posts (and don’t know who you are) don’t merit you enough.

Merit was introduced to encourage the recognition of good posting. Unfortunately most members do not realise that by banging out any old word sequence in order to meet sig spamming requirements, it makes it harder for sources to find meritable posts, and thus stops the spammers from improving their ranks and their the earnings. If you have an activity of 50 or more, and you haven't been able to pick up any merit, then you need to stop bounty hunting, and start to make positive contributions to the community.

I just found your thread and I agree with your statement.
But like you say before don't waste your Merit. Just give them to the low rank when they post something good or something new but valueable or for people who give their service for free.
Cause it will make community will be healthier, and the low rank will have a motivation to make a good post.
I am as a low rank right now too always fighting to get some merit too not because to rank up but because it's my score from the community, If i already being a good people here or not.

^^

I think it is fair though, there are many low ranked members here now looking and creating a good quality post for them to be merited, but some are staying and preferring to be a low ranked member or a bounty hunter rather than making an effort to make a merit worthy post, there are also low ranked members that are staying in their local board that are creating a good quality post but doesn't know how to speak English I think you should merit those members.

About being fair! Just a look at this thread is saying everything. Who is getting merit? Legendary ranked members. Are their posts here, on this thread so constructive that they deserve merit for them? I dont want to say it, just decide for yourself!

I do think its fair as high ranked members are already respected enough with the amount of merit point they have, when a legendary or hero make a post its assume that the user is posting something really useful and giving more merit i dont see the point.
Someone correct me but is there any level higher than Legendary??
When a low rank member gets merit for a post he/she wil be encourage to do more, when those merit dont come its discouraging.

Actually it is very tough to review each and every post for Merit. So somebody who need Merit need to do something that can highlight the user. This debate will be now to what we should give merit  to instead of to whom we should give merit.

High quality (whether it is low ranked or high ranked) will eventually get Merit. so we do not need to save them for it.

On a contrary I believe in giving Merit to someone who can show promise to improve or improving with time. But it is again a time consuming process and you need surplus of sMerits to start these kind of challenge.

I am great supporter of these kind of challenges but currently we do not have any.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/joes-signatureless-challenge-win-25-4-merits-every-week-paused-3784164

I started to look through your posts to see if I could find some to award with merits. I stopped looking when I saw that you had quoted an OP in full. There are so many posts that state that this is not just bad practice, but it's really annoying. I can only assume that you aren't taking any notice of the advce given out in these threads. That single post of yours lost you the chance of getting some merits.

The merit system felt like a disadvantage for some new entrants, but I think that it is worth just knowing that the top owner thinks like this.

Is it fair? As for the point of view, I think that it is NO because it means to see people with little merit advantageously.

However, I think that there is a way of holding the value of the forum and expanding the possibility of creating new motivation. I want to support.

After all the replies, I come to the conclusion that, in general, lower ranked members think it is fair because they want to rank up, and higher ranked members think it is unfair because although they don’t need the merits to rank up, they want to see their contribution to the forum recognized.

If this post was on the Bitcoin Discussion section I would lock it, but I will leave it open for a while.

simply give it to the author who really deserves it, you find informative, and helpful regardless of their rank.

Yes but most, if not all, merit sources are Legendary and Hero members. They also had more merits to send when the system was implemented. Finally, they get merits easily, as merit sources and people with more smerits don’t care about ranks and obviously higher ranked people have more knowledge so their make quality posts.


Well, I wasn’t talking about giving merit to shitposters, as I think it is obvious. I don’t think merits given to Legendaries help improve the quality of the forum. Higher ranked members post with more or less the same quality as before the merit system was introduced. I don’t think they are writing better because people give them merits.

On the contrary, giving merits to lower ranked members can motivate them make efforts to improve.


Yes, I think of it like I’m a low-wages worked who can barely make it from paycheck to paycheck, so I can’t spend my money with the first thing I see that I like.

You don’t have that problem as you are a merit source, or a rich man, in my example.

I think it is sad that people still don't understand the concept of merit. It's purpose is to improve the overall quality of the forum, and merits should be awarded to encourage posting to achieve this end. They aren't there to help beggars to get their next packet of cigraettes, or to enhance their wedding tackle. It's very discouraging to put some effort into a project, and to feel that it is wasted or ignored. Awarding merits is one way for the community to say thank you. Even better is to make encouraging comments. Without these, one doesn't know if one misunderstands the community needs or interests.

Are merits wasted if they are given to legendary merit sources? If you think of them as a form of currency, then the answer is yes. If you think of them as a form of feedback, then they aren't. Obviously I'm including myself in that category, so let me say that constructive, helpful comments are more useful than merits, and enable me to build or drop an idea. However, many heroes and legendaries are helpful in the tech sections, and I think it is important to show them appreciation. Don't forget that a merited post is an example to a new member, and the posters rank doesn't matter.

they still need to receive Merits in order to get sMerits to send, just like any other rank.

I think it's fair. Legendary ranked members just have nowhere else to growth, so they do not need to be in merit system at all.

I may not be in the position to speak as I have no smerits to give myself, but I believe that is only fair. Honestly speaking, I believe the rank of the author should be disregarded and just base on the quality of the post if you're planning to give out smerits sir. I may be new here, but I've seen low-rank members post interesting and helpful posts that I think deserve merits. Just my two-cents sir!

I believe it is very fair. We, the newbies are trying to rank up as much as we can. but if we dont get merit, we are until jr. member. Any kind hearted person can can help us with this. But in the end, its up to the user ti share its merits.

OP, iI support your attitude. Unfortunately, in recent weeks I don't have enough time to browse forum and give Merits to users who deserves it. Or I just become too lazy. So, I still have plenty of my sMerit to give.
I understand your point, but I think it's some kind of waste of Merit to give it to Legendaries. Ok, I give 2 Merits to Legendary member and he get only 1 sMerit which he can send to low-ranked member. So, I would better to give my 2 Merits directly to low ranked users. But I'm not saying that we shouldn't give Merits to high ranked members. When I see Legendary with high number of Merits, it's like an indicator that he is great poster and it's worth to read what he wrote.

Hello as a low-ranked member I believe this merit system is good and your idea of saving is not bad as long you really give it to people who deserve it. I believe you will be often seeing yourself giving merit to older people because they are more used and better on finding and posting interesting content. However, I really would like a system where anyone can highlight a good post (tho I fear the spamming), so it's easier for veterans to see it and give it more merit chances, I often see really fruitful topics without any merit and I wonder if it's not because enough veterans has seen it.

To be honest, there are plenty of members dishing out merit regardless of rank, so if you want to focus on lower ranked members then that's great. There are a tonne of junior members like me that are finding it hard to get off the ground regardless of how active I am on here and I think its probably just a case of many good posts and the relative rarity of merit.

I, unsurprisingly, think this is a great idea. The higher ranked members have a lot of excess merit and do not need more. Can someone tell me where the merit came from originally and what the criteria was for it's original distribution? Was it a reward for higher ranked members at the outset? I've been here since December last year and granted am not on here all the time, didn't hear about how to receive merits when they were introduced.

I think encouraging newer members is a good policy to decide on gifting your merit.

Generally I tend to use my sMerit to reward people without legendary rank even if they deserve it, they do not need it.
Very often they are not interested in merit and therefore I prefer to use it for helping people with a minor rank.

i have found my criteria for meriting posts changes when i am almost out of smerits. and it does tend to lean towards giving to lower ranks at that time. which is unfair on my part.

legendaries obviously dont need smerits for ranking up, but i figure (generally) legendaries will give out merit with greater "accuracy" than lower ranks simply because they know more about the subject matter and what benefits the forum than lower ranks. so they definitely need merits sent to them.

OTOH for lower ranks it can be discouraging for them to have good posts skipped, where legendaries probably wont care as much (at least i dont). i like to encourage them.

when i only have one or two smerits left i find myself withholding smerits on the off chance i might find a better post later, and thats kinda a pain. i wound up with a bookmark folder named "merit these posts" for when i have smerits to send lol. when i go through that folder, lower ranks do get preference all else being equal.

is that unfair toward legendaries on my part. well, yes.  on average, legendary posts do tend to be better quality and thus deserve merit like any other quality. but since smerits are intended to reward good posting habits, and (generally) legendaries already have that, the merit goes toward the lower ranks to "point the way" so to speak.

Now it's turning into a business. I've seen posts about sMerit buying/selling more than once. After all, there are high-quality posts that are not awarded smerit, because it is easier to sell than to put just like that.

It can be theorized that its better to save up sMerit for lower rank users that "need" it but that's really only one side to it. Its all based on the person who owns the sMerit and what they deem as a good post. As I've read many people on this topic agree that merit should be awarded to posts regardless of rank but by the value of the post. The two values I've noticed are posts that are useful, or posts that give a laugh. Both contain values which are based by the opinion of the owner of the sMerit. I personally think it is fair but it can be hard to be noticed. I say that but I'm sure if a user consistently posts quality then they will get atleast some merit from someone. If that someone has any to send. I usually find myself wanting to send a merit for a post but then realize "I only have one to send. Maybe I should save it for another post."

It's this one - there are loads of people exchanging ideas about bounties, and they must gain enjoyment from the self-flagellation of not receiving those bounties.

I gave mine to those who had helped me (or made me laugh) in the past. I gave one away to someone who has passed soooooo while that person didn't need it he absolutely deserved it.
"Fair" is a tricky and practically pointless word when asking what someone should do with their own belongings, votes, merit or whatever else.

I'm personally fine knowing I will not likely ever make legendary status (Hero is enough pressure as it is ;-).
Not sure how the merit system will shake out but it IS an improvement, I hope it will discourage the multiple accounts trying to "level up" to make money by spamming here.

Whatever happened to having a forum where people with the same interest exchange ideas...for enjoyment?

i think is fair and so nobly! but if and only if these post really deserve a merits! we dont want merits for shitty or spammy posts so we want keep the form cleam from those kind of people so we dont should to encourage them by giving them a merits but we must to help people who deserve help 

I would have liked to have been flush with Smerit. It had been awhile since hanging out here. I had 20 and gave them away quickly still wishing to give about 60 more out.
I think it's fair for people to give them as they see fit. Shooooot if someone makes me laugh that's a +merit -)

They don't drop, it is just that sometimes they don't appear on the post count. Even if they are not deleted nor classified as spam.

I have taken a look at your posts. I expected the typical one-liners, which I found, but from time to time there is a decent one. Have one merit for that one.

I have also observed that Bitcointalk does not count all posts, I believe it is based on posts on the same thread or those that have little time between them. I will ask for an explanation in Meta, since I am an older member and yet still don't know it.

Believe me, I am not.

Posts do not "drop off over time". Your posts were deleted for being spammy, irrelevant, or off-topic, and you are likely to be banned if you continue making such posts.

That none of your 50 32 posts were merited is a further clue that your posts are not contributing to the forum.

17800 merits every 30 days ought to be plenty.

If the issue is that shitposters keep complaining that they can't get merit, then yes, it indeed seems that not enough is being done about it.

---

My reason is simple enough. Take my generosity and pay it forward.

It’s not really you, now the moderators here are really working hard and they mostly deleting most threads on this forum and because of that our posts just keep on dwindling from the forum. But I can testify that due to the merit system, not a lot of posts are being made and am talking about spamy posts.

You are very generous and I do see your point.  However, I see merits as a valuable and scarce commodity and if all else is equal (which it usually isn't), I'd give my smerits to lower-ranked members over Legendaries.  Hero members still need them, but Legendaries can't rank up any more than they have.  The problem has always been finding those low-ranked members who make decent posts.  Often I find myself doing what you and Vod do, which is giving out merits without regard to rank or need.  It so happens that I find posts made by older members a lot more interesting.

Foxpup, for some reason, has given me quite a bit of merit and though I don't "need" it, it is always nice to have some smerit to give out. 

Anyway, since smerits are very limited--especially if you're in the lower ranks--it's understandabe that you'd want to be selective about who you give it out to.  I think that's perfectly acceptable.

Whatever bitcointalk is trying to achieve with merit-based ranking is failing.

1. The number of posts drops off over time. After submitting roughly 50 posts, bitcointalk is counting 32 of them. I do not make spammy or irrelevant posts and they are not off-topic. So I spend time contributing more posts which leads to more time on site with 0 merit, which on the surface will make it look like a spammer account.

2. Bitcointalk is not giving members enough merit to give to others (see the rest of the thread on this topic.)

3. Bitcointalk doesn't seem to care and hasn't done anything to address the issue.

So if I buy a chair that has been made by an apprentice carpenter, and it collapses when I sit on it, should I pay the same price as a chair from a master carpenter that will last for 200 years?

hii all, i think its fair enaught that you give merit for those who had constructive post in BCT. but not easy for people like us who hard to says in english and  create constructive post.because english languange is not our daily languange. most uf us join this community becouse of altcoins and while we in it, will learning this language and try to undestand it. sorry if my english not good enaught..thanks.

When the merit was introduced I had a policy of simply awarding best posts or posts that are helpful to me personally. Since than I have somewhat amended in a way that I favor lower ranks and local forum where I am most active. It was necessary because I simply don't have enough merit to award all the post I deem worthy.

I try to always keep few merits in hand to award great posts which are beneficial to me personally and probably useful to community as whole.

I think, you may skip legendary members regardless of their posts... They are already established and everyone knows what it mean...

Instead I believe,, Newbies to Hero must enjoy this merit system based on their posts... They have yet chance to improve themselves with due evaluation & rewards..

(Note: Extremely high level & beneficial post must be awarded no matter what rank the poster has)

Note: I've edited the title and the OP to make my case even clearer. I thought it was petty clear but after seeing some replies I wanted to emphasize: I'm only talking about giving merits to high-quality posts.

You made a nice point, also put into consideration to merit only lower rank members that contributes positively to the community, that why we will avoid spamming post and the rest.

The merit system was introduced to take care of spamming post as users look for it to be ranked up while doing so they post only relevant post in order to be merited . Also kindly not, if a legendary member post something meaningful also consider meriting the post that way we share the merit round and make bitcointalk better and fair

Well I agree that merits are not for charitable reasons but for the sake of keeping this forum healthy with good quality posts. That would only be possible if we will not let alts and abusers spam and shitpost.

Giving sMerits is not based on their ranks but their posts.
If you think low-ranked accounts give a valuable point and idea then good for them.
I know that observing for quality is a bit crucial because of high standards of some merit sources but that is why we, average-ranked users are here to give good judgement too. We have an opportunity to do that.


Saving is not really necessary but let your sMerits count for a greater purpose.

If you will give you sMerits to a spammer and alts, then it is useless because your sMerits will not produce a quality member.

Well, I think you seem like a really nice person.

I am in favour to consider positively good questions from newbies to Juniors for their first merits to motivate them staying in the forum. After that, I have no conscious bias regarding the rank.

One problem could arise with that kind of mindset. You will surely find an interesting post from a lower rank member but because you are running out of smerit, you will probably think that you will encounter an even more interesting post from other members and you will end up hoarding your sMerits although not intentionally.

I reviewed the sMerits I sent to members and found out that most them went to higher ranking members tho I merited one jr.member whose posts really piqued my interest. My point is, I will still merit posts regardless of ranks.

Lower ranked members also need sMerits to reward other users and, most, if not all, merits sources are higher ranked members.

I’m only giving merits to posts that deserve them, so, in my opinion, your objections don’t hold.


I’m only giving merits to posts that benefit the forum, so, your objection doesn’t hold.


Yeah! I’m not surprised that those complaining about what I say are higher ranked members and those who agree are lower ranked ones, lol!

Personally I would rather hand out merit to the newbies-member accounts.  Giving merit to legendary is just like handing money to billionaires.  They don't need it and other people  would appreciate it more.

its not, it depends on the post, you should care less about who is the poster or his rank.

Hello, as a low-ranked member I believe this merit system is good and your idea of saving is not bad, as long you really give it to people who deserve it. I believe you will be often seeing yourself giving merit to older people because they are more used and better on finding and posting interesting content. However, I really would like a system where anyone can highlight a good post (tho I fear the spamming), so it's easier for veterans to see it and give it more merit chances, I often see really fruitful topics without any merit and I wonder if it's not because enough veterans has seen it.

I know, actually it depends on the user.

Merit is not charity. If you want it, you'll have to earn it.

I got you, but in my own opinion there is a difference between equality and justice.
So, if you treat others equally you mean that regardless of the rank you will give merit to those who have quality post.
But if you choose justice you will give merit to those in need of merit but also deserving to have merit and who posts quality posts.
In other words prioritize lower rank users who are also deserving to have merit.

This forum isn't a charity. Hopefully those looking for charity rewards will go elsewhere now that merits have been introduced. They were screwing u the forum for those of us who don't mind working for a living.

Yeah but lower rank users is badly in need of merit to level up, we consider it as a form of charity.

I think the sole criterion should be the benefit the post brings to the forum and its members. As you can see, I have awarded merits to two legendaries in this thread.

It's not fair. Higher-ranked users still need sMerits to reward other users. You should merit posts that deserve it, regardless of rank.

I would do that if I had unlimited smerits and, in fact, that was what I was doing before.

The problem with that is that I find interesting posts soon, and I run out. So, when I find more interesting posts, I don’t have merits to send. With limited smerits, I consider awarding posts written by a Legendary member a waste. With Hero members is not so much of a waste, but they get them easily.

I agree with you. It is indeed a help to merit lower ranks that post a quality post.

Thank you for your generosity! More power!
I hope many higher rank members here in bitcointalk has that generosity and fairness like you.

I merit posts, not posters. Unfortunately I can't really avoid noticing the poster's name/rank/etc when I'm reading their post but I try to train myself to not pay attention to that and merit based solely on the content of the post.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with the OP's approach if the supply of sMerits is limited and you have to choose who gets them.

Yes it will be better if you'll only give merit for lower ranks but most of good quality posts created, the authors is on a high rank like Hero or Legendary even they don't need it because their rank are likely "maximum". Most of my sMerits are given to Full Member below. I agreed with this because I'm only a member wants to rank up. I had seen many low ranks trying to post a good one but sometimes it's results to spamming that's why  their are only few that are very sincere to rank by doing it their own.

I have lowered my standard just a bit. I still ask for a decent constructive post, but sometimes I may overlook how accurate it is or if it has links and sources.

I was starting to use the strategy that the OP suggested. I wanted to be a good guy and help people rank up that deserve it. I was being really picky though on who exactly would get my 1 smerit. However, it appears that my smerits faucet is running over. Going to lower my criteria just a tad.

As long as you give Merit for members who make constructive posts, i don't see any problem. But for me, i ignore user rank and decide whether to give Merit solely based on their posts/thread quality.

I think it is better to award them to posts you find interesting, without considering the author.

I think ,it is a good idea.It will boost the confidence of new member and he will try to post more useful post for us.

I used to do that but I ran out so quickly that I've changed my mind now.

I very rarely have any myself, and if i got some i send them quite fast as there are many posts that deserve it but does not receive merit.
But i like your idea and might start to do the same.

And is it fair? Yes as long as the post you give merit to are post you believe deserve it.

I don’t  get enough smerits to spend as often as I would like to. This has made me decide that I am only going to give merits to high quality posters, lower ranked members; I won’t give any for Legendary members and maybe not to Hero members either.

I think it is better due to scarcity to save them for people who have a long way to rank up rather than for those who are at the top already and get merits easily.

What do you think about? Do you do the same? Do you think it is fair?