Topic: Do you think that Bitcoin is more worth buying than the ASICs? (Read 1281 times)

I’ve not had to put these two in contrast before: mining with respect to buying Bitcoin.
They are indeed the same package of for an investment but one with very different module of operation and benefits.

While one (mining) might require of you certain expenses and could got you in the authorities nest, taxes and all included,
The other is completely some based on financial buoyancy at the time and that’s about it.

The point which I get here though simply started is,
A teach how to fish rather than just been handed a fish or buying the fish.

Mining, getting a rig and having to start a farm is considered an expensive and not easy to maintain adventure which so many might not be able to afford, given the sophisticated nature of it.
While, having to buy Bitcoin can come by a strategy that allows for gradual accumulation (DCA).

Besides, mining devices gets outdated over time with increased sophistication. This challenges how profitable you might have been in the times your device was more applicable.

Having to run a mine would have made a lot of sense but, it’s only normal that you go with one that guys you that flexibility to invest with what you’ve got and wouldn’t require of you lots or any maintenance while being very private.

In early days of Bitcoin, it was possible to mine even on desktop computers but not anymore. The first thing you must consider before diving into mining is to calculate whether its profitable to do that? Electricity is the most important concern since the mining rigs eats too much electricity, the hardware for mining bitcoin is super expensive, many countries have legislation regarding Bitcoin mining. There are many questions one need to answer before starting Bitcoin mining.

The reason to start mining rather than just buying bitcoins should be because you have considered your interest to be interested in mining and also other factors that will make mining profitable to know if it is something you can do. If you consider factors like cheap affordable electricity, security etc and see that it's a check for all those factors, then you can start mining.

Do not buy from a new supplier on the market, buy from suppliers who have been in the business and were recommended.

Thanks, guys for the advice to double-check the source of the news  I was a fool and still learning every single day As usual, I just search the news or usually, it pops up from my email with the crazy title, and yessss I just got dragged by the clickbait 

Sometimes I just believe it because it is from coingecko or Coindesk, +1 Learning achievement unlock today 

Exactly this. My home winter electric is 14 cents and the heat allows me to turn my furnace off for the winter. So I pay around 10 cents a kwatt from Oct 1 to May 1

I can burn 10 kwatts  an hour in my home setup.  And it needs to be very cold 🥶 to burn that much in the winter as The house will get too hot.

I burn under 5 kwatts in the winter the last winter cause the profit were not there.

Now my main mine is under 5cents a kwatt I have access to a max of 300 kwatts an hour.

At five cent we turn profit. and we are burn about 200kwatts an hour an adding gear.

Larger mines in texas are at 2 cents not 16 cents. They still grow.

Yeah, and?  
It doesn't change the fact that it's stupid just because it has a disclaimer they used data that is stupid when used so?!

Globalpetrolprices takes its data from the IEA
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=table_5_06_a
so yeah, the data is good, that's how it is the USA has a 16c/kwh price.
So what?

Do you honestly think 30% of the hashrate that Foundry alone boasts about is running at 16 cents? When you find a nice pic online do you immediately take that conclusion for granted just because it states some source on Wikipedia as the basis or treat as if it's some holy grail of knowledge just because it was posted on a a website?

This is why people are angry here, because if we stop posting this stupid shit and get them views then they would also stop creating this stupid thing in the first place!

well in the USA we mine as a collective country about ½ of all the hash in the world.

that would be 200 eh.

most mines in the usa are huge. does anyone seriously think mines were spending 40k plus for 20 k coins in dec of 2022.

Basically  the article is and was and will continue  be fucking garbage.

Sources are used either to prove something or to avoid plagiarism copy-right, they don't mean anything when the content is wrong, and you can't write some straight-out bullshit and say oh it's not my words I copied it from a very unreliable source like globalpetrolprices, using these sources are just "trust me bro" kind of sources, so nothing this changes the fact that whoever wrote that article is just stupid at best.

Guys guys at the bottom of the images the footnotes say "methodology: Household electricity cost calculated using height Bitcoin mining models and globalpetrolprices.com data from December 2022" Further reading could go in here https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/bitcoin-mining-cost

Tho is just Mining speculation thread right

so basically people should read this and not go all and like you said  @Oilacris the change of KwH of electricity should be considered before make any investment on mining

You know people do easily believe on whatever information that they would find online specially on known Coingecko which we know that it is popular.Therefore, whatever information that they would
really be publishing then expect that people would really be just easily believing. Even myself do check out that image and there are countries which does have that high standard of living and something that expensive but ending up on having 7k-19k cost of mining 1 Bitcoin. Somewhat there's no way to confirm this though because KWh do really changed up everytime
and this is why every information would really be ending up on not being precise.

So you are aware of the existence of the thread that discussed Coingecko's shit content, if you read the comments, you see that I alongside many other miners explained in detail and with strong evidence that the whole study was a complete b.s, it doesn't serve the mining community when people keep posting this study as a reference to anything valid, you could put this image next to "avoid b.s studies such as 'the image you posted above' ", other than that, it's doing more harm than good to everyone looking at it.

In early days, it was easy to mine Bitcoin (even people mine bitcoin on laptops) but now a days you need expensive mining devices that consumes too much power. Bitcoin mining is for specialised groups that have the capability to setup large and complex mining rigs. Although everyone is free to join Bitcoin mining, one must calculate how much he can return he will get after setting up his solo mining rig. I never jumped into Bitcoin mining since I know I wont earn much from it. 

That image is bullshit as shown in the tread where it was posted.
No idea why you'd post it here.

Good for you then, Recently Coingecko show the cost to mine one Bitcoin there a thread that discussed about it too but here is the image


It is costly to mine the Bitcoin but it still can generate a lot of money if you have a ton of money too   there is some old quote "If you want to make money you must spend money" So when bear market like this happen it is good to buy more bitcoin and DCA when the Bull market you can use the profit for do mining  

Six years ago I was looking to mine and I wanted it solar powered but by that time I had money and I had a friend who could set up one for me using GPU I just found out that companies are mining it using ASIC mining rings and the cost at that time is not worth it, I ended up buying Bitcoin and true enough it's more profitable than buying Asic I think it's the general sentiment of those who used to mined and give it up.
Time is changing and sometimes a change of mind is still worth it.

Your name says Asic supplier, if this is your side job why are you asking this question then? Every miner starts mining Bitcoin to make profit or to increase their stash of Bitcoin, some are doing it for fun while some are serious miners that dedicate their lives to become a long term Bitcoin miner.

Most people prefer playing safe, so they go on official asic builders like Bitmain to order for their miners, and those who are ready to take risks go for used asic miners, remaining focused on China, I've help few people ordered on Aliexpress and I did this base on verified buyers review.

Whenever I want to shop online I always look into how many asic a store or supplier has sold in the past years and I also make sure they have loads of successful business reviews from their customers.

When anyone comes to me talking about being confused either to invest into bitcoin mining or it's preferable to buy and hodl. I first think of the cost of organizing the needed equipments for mining and electricity fees. That's a good amount of money that can buy you admirable units of bitcoin and with the bitcoin halving in focus the worthiness in buying and HODLing becomes so important than mining right now.
 

I agree with all your statement that buying bitcoin is better than mining bitcoin. To mine bitcoin one need to pass through a lot of stress and spent a lot of money on electricity and mining equipment. If you use all these funds put together you will ha e a significant amount of bitcoin and you can hodli till thy kingdom come,depends on when you will like to sell off. If you start mining bitcoin, there are possibilities that you will run at loss and one can pack up his mining farm but when your bought bitcoin is in your noncustodial wallet very safe,it is compulsory that you will make good profit from your bitcoin investment portfolio

If a person is practical, well what you say is correct, that's why there are others who enter this industry because they lack knowledge, they have the mindset to buy Bitcoin mining rigs thinking that they will just wait for profit in bitcoin without thinking much about it.

      But in today's time, I would really prefer to buy bitcoin because compared to mining it is too much of a hassle unlike buying after it is up to us whether we hold or short term trading.

THis is my opinion but its worth to buy a bitcoin rather than buying a mining rig, IF you don't have enough money to afford multiple mining rig. But if you still curious about how mining works and watched the fan screaming yeah you can buy one and running them if you think it is worth you can buy it more.

But in this case I don't think it should be arguable about the pros of investing on bitcoin to bitcoin mining, like it outweighs the mining of it. Imagine a situation where you just buy at a certain price then sit back give it some time without having to stress out to see your investment yield profit even if it takes a year or two.

Meanwhile apart from the hussle and financial burden one has to bear to make available all equipments needed for mining including electricity bills, have you wondered if there should be a natural disaster taking place like wild fire, flooding , these occurrence is capable of stalling mining operations for a longer period as electricity distribution would drastically be affected and cut off putting all mining activities to a hold whereas some that just invested in bitcoin could be experiencing a bull along the way in that same occurrence.

Looking at the cryptocurrency market today, almost everyone will say the same thing that buying Bitcoin is better than making ASIC and mining.  I also think that buying bitcoins would be best at the moment but should not mix trading with ASIC and mine bitcoins separately.

As currently Bitcoin mining is not becoming profitable due to electricity bills and dumping of the market, I think even if you are going to trade, you have to take trades for long term where the investment will not get any profit quickly. So I think both the sectors have their pros and cons now I think it depends on the individual which one he chooses.

At the current market situation, I think it is better to buy Bitcoin than buying an ASIC and mine Bitcoin.  If you buy bitcoin , you save yourself from setting up mining rig, maintenance, and noise created by miner oh, and also save you from the complaint of your neighbor if you are just a wall away from them.  You also save yourself from possible early machine break out.  There is more pro than cons in buying Bitcoin directly than buying ASICS and mining Bitcoin.

I know, the part of my comment was supposed to sound funny, but ya, I know, I am not the funniest person you would meet online. , honestly, at least that website puts a warning of some kind unlike all the other online calculators I have seen, it does go on with using unstained numbers but ya, still better than just showing the imaginary gains without any type of disclaimer.

I don't have anything against the calculator itself, what I meant is that when you start adding extra text and guides, it becomes either a guide or a research. And just from the title, common, this is biased in one direction, just how other calculators are the other way when they try to sell you gear, how DCA sites and how rainbow infinity gain charts are.
The thing that it considers a 6% growth per month for BTC price is pure hopium and a 5% increase in difficulty is "normal", well, we all know how this can't be right at the same time.


That's why I don't like either extrapolation or the so-called gradual growth schemes, they look natural in the short term because it was doable in the past but if you project that over a longer term it doesn't look credible anymore, by the 6y average difficulty would more than double every year, this is impossible, the price might trace this growth for a while but at some point when you hit 2x every year and you already have a  bitcoin at a billion $ it's just silly, same when we hit a zettahash, doubling again next year? Not without every semiconductor maker producing miners!


GPU is a different game, you had one coin that made 95% of the reward money switching to PoS, unless altcoins that are minable will manage to do a x20 gain mining will never be as profitable as it was when eth was minable. Of course, a lot of miners quit and sold so there won't be the need for that much, maybe an x7, x10 but still without that it would be like Bitcoin disappearing and leaving us to mine Bitcoin cash and SV.

The key is zero debt and cheap power.

I have cheap power and zero debt..

Guess what I am making far less than 2021.

Our gpu's used to earn 9000 a month with me getting 25% this was 2250 a month
Our gpu's earn 700 a month with me getting 25% that is only  180 a month


Our LTC/Doge used to earn 11000 a month with my share 2200 a month
it now earns 4000 a month  with my share 800 a month


I won't reveal BTC numbers

but they are down.

If I had debt I would go broke. As it is my alt coins dropped from 4450 a month to 980 a month

Man, you gotta give credit to the website posted above, honestly, I think it's the most honest mining calculator I have seen in my entire life, if you read the second line of the website it states:


They couldn't have described any better, in fact, he goes further by saying



Now to be a bit more serious, I'd add to your post two factors that aren't mentioned in most places, are as follows:

1- All trends (including BTC difficulty and price) will be affected by the natural events of diminishing returns and the effect is impossible to guess, so the past average is exactly meaningless.

2- Using averages in mining calculation is plain stupid because while the price can do 200% over 3 years, you won't be able to stand 1.5 years of mining at loss, unlike buying BTC and having to just wait for the action to happen, with mining, you might still be in a larger cycle where profits are positioned to do 10x, but only after 13 months, having already both the gears and got under debt /rent/bills/contracts, even if you were dead sure that in 13 months you will be earning some serious money, you might just not be able to stand on your feet to witness that time.

The problem with all these calculators is that they forget to tell users one tiny thing when trying to force upon them an idea, of either a profit or in the case, of loss.
Looking at the default setting, it's clear what the aim is,  let's extrapolate things cause this will be like this forever, you have a monthly BTC price gain of 3.0 and a difficulty gain of 4.1, just for fun let's double the value to accelerate it and you're going to see that it will show in one year the cost for mining being above the value return in BTC but despite this it would still lead you to believe people will still add more and more mining gear, keeping this exponential growth despite absolutely no returns, which is impossible.
Run this scenario till 2030 and do tell me how many fabs we need to produce all the chips needed for such a hashrate.

How would miners add 2 million S19XP in the next year to match that growth and more importantly how would they even get produced in that interval?
Calculators should do just one thing, calculate, not start with customer-made scenarios (10k for a miner that is priced at 6k) only to prove a point.

I am not sure why you have 2 different questions in your post and 1 random question in your topic header but I will try to answer, to your topic question of if I think buying BTC is worth more than mining hardware:

I think that your perspective on this is wrong. At some point, your investment in those ASICs will be covered by the mined Bitcoin profits. And once you have regained the money you invested, you will be mining for profit, having to cover only your mining bills (electricity, rent and so on...).

Now, if your mining bills >= Bitcoin profits then obviously mining Bitcoin with ASICs would be useless as you would earn no profit and there would be no point in buying ASICs in the first place.

So the question you should ask yourself must be: Is my government ripping me off when it comes to the electricity bill ?

It's better to mine bitcoin and to do it you need to have enough or too much money to buy bitcoin mining machines. Because once you start it is a great saving for the future, the only disadvantage is that when the value of bitcoin falls in the market, the cost of electricity increases especially because of the mining machine used in bitcoin.

Therefore, during a bear market, it is better to invest in bitcoin in well-known exchanges and play with it in trading, because it is easier to make money during these times.

But if you know of legitimate suppliers that you can get bitcoin mining from you can check out this site
https://www.globalsources.com

if nobody mines and nobody runs nodes bitcoin will end up like our current monetary systems. anyone can buy hardware it doesn't need to be profitable to support the network and continue to show the value of bitcoin at the very least run a full node bandwidth is cheap. riches doesn't always need to be the main driver i think people need to look at what the future could be like with fast cheap payments and everyone contributes instead of complaining about how things suck and their stock are down and crypto is down.

Enjoy your fiat gains and BTC losses.

This calculator is wrong.  It assumes you pay for your miner in BTC.  However if you pay fiat then the increasing of BTC/$ pricing means that you can pay your miner back sooner because of inflation of the $.  Bottom line, buy your miner in fiat, accumulate BTC and then convert to fiat to pay it off.  The assumption is that BTC price vs $ increases over time.

From my experience when i bought a goldshell miner and then sold it a few month later, i think i won the deal compared to the guy i sold it too. i made a pretty good profit while the return for sia coin with the hs5 miner i sold is going down. I am not sure he will be able to make his money back with the miner. So yeah in my case id rather just buy bitcoin than mine it but each to their own.

Canamprayer: Could you please PM your supplier's details? I'm in the market for a miner or 2. As a newbie on the forums, I couldn't pm you. Thanks.

I can vouch for my supplier.  Not so much on used stuff (every used machine I ordered was delivered on time, but the machines were dirty).  But I have bought 10 of the new 85 TH/S Avalons over 3 orders.  One machine was lost in between USA and Mexico and they stood behind it.   Make sure you order with DDP shipping, I have no clue how they get around taxes and all the other BS but they do.  And to be fair about the used ones, the Whatsminers M21 50TH/S were good just a little dirty, but their L·3`s were horribly dirty.  If you go used get a 3rd party to check the machines, it is cheap and worth it.  Theire company name is Leed Manufacturing. PM me if you want more info and I can give you a history of prices I paid.   As for the first part of your questioin, it all depends on your electricity cost, and if you have time to monitor the machines. 

I define good supplier as they do not SPAM

This calculator will give you an idea of the variables that will affect whether mining can be profitable.

Smokinghopium.io

What is your reason for starting mining?

How do you define whether a supplier is legit?

Thanks