Topic: Do you want to be a hero? (maybe not) (Read 561 times)

I got so disappointed with bank after what they did to me.
 I had some emergency in school last year 2021 which required me to pay some fees, I took my debit card to a near by ATM to make some withdrawal but all I got was services not available (service error), I went straight into the bank to lay some complain about the withdrawal error but all I saw was a long qui that took about 2 hours before it could get to my turn, I got exusted that day and left hoping to make the payment the next day.
This year school Dues payment was smooth for me because I sold some Bitcoin and fulfill my payment within few minutes.

Banks are always fond of that, each time you want to withdraw huge funds. They keep prolonging it. I wouldn't blame the man for displaying a weird attitude in the bank cos we don't know how long the bank has kept him waiting to attain his plea. If he didn't spark at them, they wouldn't have known how serious he needs the money. Although all these problems wouldn't have occurred if he has a debit card.
 
This kind of situation has thought me not to have all my money kept in the bank. Have some of your money kept in the house, bank and bitcoin in case of any emergency that arises unexpectedly.

 

A crime? Who says?

And ignore this guy on 'crypto' as well, your money is not safe there. You can see the time Bitcoin is having, and Bitcoin is the daddy of crypto, so much it makes 'crypto' seem far too general to stand in for something so important as BTC. Most of these shitcoins don't even intend to be decentralized, which is what keeps banks & other state agencies from being able to publicly & legally confiscate the wealth of citizens.

Of course, they still might commit to this act as 'a crime'

I don't understand how is he treated as a hero when what he did there was a crime? What if he accidentally killed his hostage? That will only make his situation worse. He will be sent in jail, he can't see his family, and then his savings will get confiscated and won't be enough to pay for what he did. Imagine all of that? But, I know why he did that and that is because of anger.

Banks themselves do also have their fault on why they are freezing their customer funds. I think this is not written in their terms but people should understand this risk already and will try to move some of their money in cryptos because cryptoes doesn't have any restrictions whatsoever.

This is what I've been doing since stablecoin started to exist. I stopped putting all my money into banks and started to convert half of it into stablecoins or other crypto that is good for long term investment.

But for people who are not techy or born in a year where these types of technology doesn't exist yet, they would find it difficult to put their money in digital wallets to secure it themselves. They would still prefer the traditional way of storing money and it is through banks. Their mindset is completely opposite from people like me where they think crypto or digital currencies are scam.

He chose to deposit his money in bank and I guess he never knew that the bank "could withhold or deny his money" for any reason. But still, I don't think this is how he should have take his money. I know it was an emergency and he needed the money to pay the hospital bills, but that doesn't mean he did the right by choosing violence and taking someone hostage. Things could have escalated and things might have gone worse. And why did the employers in the bank had to suffer (taken hostage)? They are just doing their job.

Unfortunately, exploitative people like that exist because of a broken system. A broken system based on greed and outdated money technology. This is why things will only get better once Bitcoin becomes the global currency which will outshine any outdated fiat or government financial regulations.

People need to understand that the government is just a giant business. They do not care for their "workers" unless the workers are making such huge protests that they cannot ignore it.

The only thing they care about is profit.

Thats why we need a decentralised transparent money that nobody can control.

What the fuck?

Is this what you people call a hero? No wonder why these communities are so messed up.

Hero does not mean commit a crime. That'll make you like Pablo Escrobar.

Just look at your own superhero films - are any of them villians?

This logic of committing a crime making you a hero is messing up a lot of people's brains.

Banks really frustrate customers. To hostage bank is all depend on the country. If it is for my country then forget. the authority would even support the banks to crucify the customer. Because the Lawyers and the businessmen are working together so the working class and the poor masses can win cases in law suit. Really, using btc to keep money is best option so far.

Banking strikes me as one of those sectors that attracts a certain kind of opportunist asshole seeking to employ a public industry for exploitative purposes. And now the general standard is improving, the unfair advantages they entrenched themselves for are no longer so available. Like you said, they look like they are becoming desperate & it all looks a bit cheap & old hat. Coronavirus & monkey pox & all this manufactured alarmist shit are their way of trying to hold on. Once upon a time the evil bastards would have used the plague or the black death or a great spate of food factory or bushfires or something

Banks are the Blockbusters of our current age. They are screaming, flailing and doing anything they can to stay relevant but the truth is, banks are becoming completely unnecessary and redundant. I relish the thought that, one day, bankers will be on the streets with a "will hold your money for food" cardboard sign.

Its just the government's way of holding the people hostage. And if they do not have that, they can only threaten people by taking away their freedom instead of their money. And the government knows that.

I feel bad for the Lebanese guy, especially considering his emergency situation, but this is a good show of why we need to get rid of banks as soon as possible!

Perhaps banks is running on fractional reserves?

In any case, yeah the man is really desperate, and when we are in a bad position (needing money to pay the hospital and they can't get out obviously if they haven't settled everything), we are forced to do something like this.

But at least this has a happy ending, negotiations went good and the man just wanted his money, that's it.

If this is his money in a bank account, and he needed it urgently for a hospital but the bank was unwilling to give it to him, I think his actions were understandable. It's good that nobody got hurt. I wonder, though, why it couldn't be solved differently (for example, by calling the police to the bank and complaining about the situation. Or why he couldn't transfer money from a savings account to a debit card and pay online for the hospital charges. I also wonder if charges await him, as creating a hostage situation must be a crime. Op is right that it could largely be avoided by storing BTC, but unless the hospital accepts BTC directly, there would still be a need to use a service like an ATM or an exchange to actually use the money, unfortunately.

It's hard if you put all your money and trust into one bank and when the time comes that you need your money the bank won't give it to you. I haven't heard of a similar story before, the actions of the bank are not okay, but it's also not okay to take matters into your own hand and take a hostage. There are rules and laws we need to follow. Taking the bank to court probably takes a long time and he might not have that time in an emergency. I have similar fears myself with the big banks in my country. Even though the government guarantees bank deposits up to 100,000 Euros, I still don't trust the system. We should learn from this story to never put all our money into a bank. I use 1 bank that has branches in my city and 3 different online banks to spread my money. One bank to save, one to do my brokerage for stock trading, one bank where I have a loan and then my main bank for every days business.

Maybe that's why we can't withdraw all or most of the money we deposit in the bank because the bank has terms and conditions that we must follow. They argue that we must complete those conditions before getting the money we deposit in the bank.

If the amount of money is very large and we want to withdraw it in one go, the bank will suspect us and want to examine it further.

If they have bitcoins, but the hospital or other places don't accept crypto payments, we will also have a hard time because we can't use crypto to pay. This situation is very confusing, especially if we are in the same situation as that man. Hopefully, the bank can understand the emergency situation and can allow us to withdraw the money we deposited in the bank.

The guy is actually considered a rich guy in the country while he has more than $200,000 in his bank account. I guess the authority made a consideration  to his situation since its for hospital bill. Not everyone can be considered by authorities especially if you are not capable of paying damages. The poor is viewed differently by police not just in Lebanon.

The people in this country as far as I know has no access to USD. Paypal or any other means is not accessible for Lebanons, that's how we make these people poor. You'd be surprise how many more countries are not allowed to access USD. No freedom for these guys. Its why some of them  are grateful to have access USDT or some other stablecoin.

In other words, banks have a worse reputation when their customers need them. This impression is clearly verifiable as many cases have made it a deprecated service as long as people have other storage options.

I don't have much savings in the bank account, it's just some for my needs when paying electricity bills or other expenses. In crypto, everyone has a bank in their own hands but they still need bank services to withdraw fiat especially when your country doesn't support crypto as legal tender.

I'm not in support of bank actions y holding his money but I feel what he did was wrong, he may still be prosecuted for holding someone as a hostage in either to get his money. I have experienced a similar situation in a bank when one of their customers did withdraw his money from ATM but the transaction wasn't successful and at the same time, he was debited, all efforts to credit back money on his account was delayed even after filling the necessary documents and the day he was told to wait passed. The next time he came to the bank, he cause a scene, he was shouting and demanded to see the manager and was ready to go one on one with the security, in less than a few minutes, the money was credited back to his account, he withdraws all his money and never used the bank again. I think that guy should have used another approach to get their attention and not on a person's life.

Not everyone will use bitcoin, it might be best to boycott these banks but it means as payment is sometimes limited by its volatility. Again, if that man is paying a hospital bill, I believe he still going to use a bank to have access to cash because banks wouldn't accept bitcoin in this case.

In this case I think a person can keep some money in the bank for any emergency purpose. There they can get fiat money as needed using ATM card whose service is open 24 hours.

On the other hand, if the person is depositing most of his assets in bitcoin or crypto then I think it can be good for him. In this case, many people may be afraid of volatility, I would suggest them to convert it to stable coin or convert it to bitcoin as per the opportunity.

Even if that guy had crypto, he would have to deal with centralized crypto exchanges and KYC, in order to sell that crypto to fiat.
Dealing with a centralized crypto exchange is almost the same as having to deal with a bank. Even if he successfully sold his crypto to fiat, the fiat money would have to be wired into a bank account, that can be blocked as well. Unfortunately you can't avoid banks in the current financial system, even when you are pro-crypto. The only solution for him would have been saving a part of his money in his house.
Anyway, this guy was brave. It takes balls of steel for breaking the law, in order to save your family. I don't know if I'm capable of doing such thing.

in a way, banks are still essential to us, bitcoin and banks have their own functions and use cases
it is not safe to put all your assets in bitcoin, the risks in the crypto industry are also many, being hacked by hackers, losing private keys...
all of these will also make your assets not 100% safe and you cannot sue anyone if your property is lost, better way is we should divide our assets and put them in different points

This has always been with the banks, even in countries that are not in the middle of a severe crisis. It seems they don't just easily release your own money. I myself have been through such hassles. The case in Lebanon is much different, of course.

Regardless, the point is that it is not really convenient to keep your money in banks. Shit could happen anytime. China isn't in the middle of a Lebanon-like crisis but look at those tanks.

Anyway, I also don't recommend to just "put their money on bitcoin or crypto." It helps to keep some cash. Otherwise, that $210,000 would have already fallen to less than $100,000 now had it been converted to Bitcoin around the time of its peak.

Depositing your savings in bitcoin is still not a better solution, mate. Bitcoin is volatile and let's say you put all your savings in bitcoin and we are in a bear market. If bitcoin drops more than 75% value means your wealth will also lose 75%, if you need money immediately bitcoin will not help you but on the contrary, you become more and more desperate.

Bitcoin is a risky investment, it is suitable for long-term investment and only uses idle money to invest, not money to solve daily emergencies to invest.

Yes you are right, in my country banks do give companies loan and their interest is always high, so they do business with the money you save in the bank and they take the profit. I can't really remember the last time I left hug amount in my bank account, since I started cryptocurrency, I always keep the amount I will be needing for that moment in my bank and my main money is always in my wallet address, when I need money, I will withdraw the amount I need to my bank account. I don't really trust those banks with my fund.

Every action requires the right tool. Bank account, cash or bitcoin - each financial tool is good in certain situations, has its own characteristics and disadvantages. It is wiser to take this into account and use it for your own good than to be influenced by emotions. But I understand you perfectly, because I share your contempt for banks and cash because of their shortcomings.

I believe that banks can be used if you store only a certain amount in them, which is not needed here and now, but will be stored for a long time.

The same applies to cash (keep only part of the money in them), because it is subject to inflation, but it has a wide circulation and you can pay with it everywhere. The best way to keep the "value" in the short term and the ideal solution for ongoing expenses, as well as unforeseen and sudden.

Bitcoin is very volatile, so should consider it as a long-term reserve. Use in emergency situations is fraught with losses, because if you sell now bitcoin for the sake of paying in the hospital, then this is a bad decision (especially if bought during a bull run at 2-3 times the current price).

As a result, I can assure you that the best solution would be to distribute your money among these three instruments (or not only among them). In what proportions - this is already a decision for each individual.

because banks use customer money to lend to company owners which of course the BANK itself can get interest from the loan proceeds, that's why they sometimes don't keep the customer's money full in their bank, what's worried is that when everyone simultaneously withdraws their money, the BANK will have a strange reason like the above incident, I don't have a bank account because I'm also worried about this problem 90% of the money I have is in crypto now

Just because Bitcoin doesn't have this problem, doesn't mean that it's perfect or even more suitable than banks. Users can lose their seeds and as the result lose their entire savings forever with zero chance of recovery. Users can fall victim of malware that will steal all their money, but with banks it's less likely and less dramatic, because of the procedures like described in your story.

And if some banks have bad user experience, doesn't mean all of them do. I have been sending sums in range of $20,000 through online banking and my transactions were processed in less than 20 minutes with minimal obstacles.

People will go great lengths for their family and friends. I would have asked if he was the only customer who faced this issue with the bank but that is not the point of the topic. Back to the topic, in my country people are running to crypto to save their money already. Many many years ago our money was ours but now I feel that when we save our money in the bank it doesn't belong to us anymore but the bank and the government because they can decide to restrict our access to it for whatever reason they deem fit just as the case of the man in the story. I think that centralized exchanges also work like banks to an extent . If you want to have full control of your coins, decentralized exchange is the way to go.

I think the same way, and act the same way in fact. Having everything in Bitcoin, or everything in cash, seems crazy to me.

Just as it is good to diversify your sources of income, it is good to diversify what you accumulate. Some cash, bitcoin, RE, something invested in the Stock Market and something else gives you much more security than if you have it all in the bank, or all in Bitcoin.

I don't know what percentage it may be on average, but I am 100% sure that at least one person in life as a client has had some problem of the type "I can't freely access my funds".

 It is absolutely nonsense and it may be that many here when they access the banking system already had the crypto option as an alternative, but it is a nonsense that we had to endure for years and that, far from improving in service over the years, gets worse.

alot of people cry many things. like because i dont live in fantasy land(unlike some) of: "do what you like and use a gun if you dont get what you like.. "
and instead i do my research, whereby sometimes that means i am quoting laws and highlighting the things that can get people into trouble must, which in crybabies eyes mean that i must be on the side of the fiat elite..

they get it all wrong. actually doing research means you learn the rules of the fiat elite to then learn how to find the loop holes and avoid their headaches

EG learning some tax laws means you can learn the loop holes.. for instance giving a 'personal loan(tax exempt)
means that if yougive yourself a personalloan(many UK ministers and businesmen do this all he time)
EG from your online persona to your reallife then is a tax exempt transfer,thus not hit by income or capital gains tax

...
the guy that held a bank hostage is obviously going to get into legal trouble

the key is not to tell everyone to hold a bank hostage as that will just get you in more trouble later.

the reality is this
realise fiat is not your property. you may posses it but you dont own it (there is a difference)
its the banks invention, their patent. they just allow you usage of it if you follow their rules. they can set the rules on withdrawal limits. they can set laws that make you forfeit possession of it if you cross a boarder, they can take bank notes out of circulation and they can even set a new ratio thats not 1:1 swap on new bank notes(research hyperinflation)

so the solution is not to hoard lots of value in fiat where they set the rules. but to avoid handing them cash into a bank. because once they have it.. its not in your control. and you have to play to their whims and their rules.

its the same basic mindset of "not your key not your coin"

The guy can be called rich since minimum wage in Lebanon is around 6k USD a year, so having over 30 years of minimum wage as savings is pretty neat. At least he thought he was rich because he had a statement from the bank saying so.

It's funny how we rely on others to survive. We trust the bank will give us our money, we trust the power company will keep sending power, we trust the government will honor our rights and that our property will still belong to us in 20 years. we should learn to be independent.

Have to strongly disagree with your point about 'Bitcoin or crypto' because only Bitcoin has a proven track record & even seems reliable for the time scales you need if you are trying to protect your wealth from state rats. If you put $210K in some random not-really-decentralized altcoin then you are asking for trouble.

And to go deep on this OP about heroism, it seems like it belongs to a flawed kind of binary thinking. To be a hero you have to have a problem to solve, maybe an enemy, an anti-hero or super villain, you can't really be a hero without such a thing right? Again you have to be asking for trouble just my two sats

It is also very convenient in most cases to just buy with your bank card in the store. Also it is very safe, since you dont need to keep all your cash at home, what would be insane to me. Still to put it in the bank is not the best option for large sums.

Because, for most countries it's a requirement to have a bank account. Either to receive your money from your job, or as proof of earnings. If you want to buy a house for example, you have to show proof of where your deposit came from, that means bank statements. You can do it with Bitcoin, but Bitcoin can't be used to purchase most houses, and a lot of mortgages class Bitcoin as a risky investment, and therefore you wouldn't be able to get the same amount that you could with fiat.

So, I do get it. Banks are something that we want to avoid using, but in a lot of countries it's a requirement, that people can't avoid. I guess it depends on your living circumstances, if you have already paid off your house or you don't mind just putting the bare minimum into fiat, then that's alright, but the reality is a lot of people that aren't over 40/50 aren't going to be in a position to do that.

This story proofs again that you should never just rely on one source. You should put your money in Bitcoin, Bank account and maybe some other assets. If you only have one, even if it is bitcoin you can get in huge trouble. This was always the same, even before bitcoin did exist.

That's right, if he got some bitcoins instead, he could try P2P with Binance or any other exchanges and have all his needs at once. If people really ponder on what's going on here they will consider bitcoin as a good option for saving your money without worrying about such problems occurring. Many companies already realized that now that's why we read in the crypto news that they already bought some bitcoins with their company reserved funds in order to keep in long term and release it when people are rushing to buy bitcoins all around the world.

That's right, storing Bitcoin or some altcoins on CEX carries with it even greater risks than storing fiat in a bank, given that at least in the EU there is state insurance for deposits up to EUR 100 000. If someone hacks CEX or makes an exit scam, in most cases the client will not get anything, or will wait for years to be compensated.


In most cases, banks cannot be avoided when selling cryptocurrencies, but in some countries there are physical crypto exchanges or people sell and buy cryptocurrencies in person. The latter is not really something that is recommended because it carries certain risks, but people can always manage if they want to bypass banks when it comes to trading cryptocurrencies.

I personally feel much safer when I have Bitcoin in my possession, than when I give my trust to banks, regardless of their reputation and the insurance that the state offers on savings deposits. However, such an attitude towards saving comes from where you live, because if you have Bitcoin with which you cannot buy anything or exchange it for fiat, then you really have nothing.

For what reason can banks not give money to their customers, except here the bank suffers losses or financial problems can be said to be bankrupt, because customer savings are full rights at any time and can be withdrawn when needed,


I think the idea of diverting financial assets to btc or stablecoins is better than saving in the bank for now, because the bank system will drive customers crazy if this happens again.

Not all countries have credit or debit card payments allowed at hospitals.  I definitely know some countries around the world that do not, especially the less developed ones.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

I wouldn't necessarily classify taking hostages as heroic. I get why he did it, and I can't blame him, but that really wouldn't be heroic as he caused more problems for him and his family than previously. Something in the story doesn't add up. His brother says he just needed 5.500$, but he ended up ''walking away'' with 35k? Nevertheless, in most of the world, at least for us regular customers, you can't really come into the bank, ask for any amount of money and expect them to just hand it over, they simply don't have that on them. The banking system has, (some time ago), moved away from having the exact amount deposited on hand, and have transferred into numbers on paper or a screen. We all know that and complyed with that when we decide to do business with the bank, I think it's even in their terms of the agreement. Those that make it ok? No, but we still do business with banks. What needs to be asked is what kind of hospital was not willing to wait one day (as it usually takes that much for the bank to get the money) that it was needed to take hostages for the money to be there that day? STrange.

How can you mention crypto will have full of control? are you forget there's many news CEO freeze their coins even it's on non custodial wallet. Put your money on cryptos or centralized exchanges are similar you like put it on banks, there's nothing of full control.

Also you're not completely correct, even they already invest all his money on Bitcoin, when you're convert your money to Bitcoin, you still need a bank to withdraw your money. Which third party you will use to get your money then? you need the money ASAP, if you're using gift card, it's slow.

What I don't see the point is to have a lot of money, like millions, and have it all in cash. In your house, no matter how safe you think it is, it can be stolen, or there can be a fire and it can burn.


What I don't quite understand about the story is why I couldn't pay the hospital bill by credit or debit card, bank transfer or check. Normally when restrictions like that have been put in place as happened in Cyprus around 2013, the restrictions are on cash, but you can still pay by other means.

Putting ones savings into bitcoin?
One of the biggest deterrent of this is the volatility of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is highly speculative; someone can have $1000 worth of Bitcoin today which that reduces to $600 in a couple of weeks.
An emergency can come up at any time, and if it occurs during a down market, the person may not be able to get the complete funds to save the situation.

Secondly, the bank is still a factor here as the person would need to convert back to fiat.
If the bank can withhold savings which have been there for a while, they can definitely delay an incoming transaction and restrict the user from cashing it out.

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Advising people to put their money in "Bitcoin or crypto" could lead many to shitcoins; a large amount of altcoins are not worth investing in.

In the same scene a bank in China, they won't allow the owners to withdraw their money. But in China, rules are tougher and their citizens can't do shit with them, or else, a big consequence that they'll regret forever will be faced.

Banks usually won't allow their customers to withdraw if there's an economic downturn that they're facing. And with Lebanon, AFAIK, they've been facing a heavy blow on their economy for a few years now.

 
this is one of the questionable request that should be laid on banks requesting why? because many had gone through lots of difficulties in the process of bank restrictions to one's finances, bitcoin is a good opportunity that take away this embargo for real, which has lifted many from the trap and dungeons of centralized system of hostages, with bitcoin there's freedom ones you know how to remain truly decentralized by staying away from centralized exchanges which share similarities in bank especially with KYC related issues.


better you stay off their banking system because yours can be different case entirely, once you don't fully depends on banks with your finances then overlooked all their downfalls and embrace bitcoin.


preferably bitcoin and not other cryptocurrencies, then the solution is easy and simple, p2p.

I despise banks and have never seen the point in keeping your money in the bank account.  And with every single story like this that I get to read, I get one more confirmation that storing your savings in the bank is a big risk.  Too many times in the history banks screwed their own customers up, so why help them continue doing this?

On the other hand, I partially disagree with you that savings should be stored in Bitcoin.  If you are in an emergency, Bitcoin will not be there to help you unless the hospital, the doctor or the person in need accepts Bitcoin payments.  Savings for emergency use better be stored in my opinion in Fiat instead, as much as I hate it.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

A man in Lebanon was hailed a hero after he takes a bank a hostage. And the reason why he did that? it's because he can't withdraw his money from bank. He had a family emergency, so obviously, he needed that money for hospital bills and all his saving is in that bank. And the hostage ended after the negotiators were able to produce $35,000 (£29,000) of his savings upfront.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62514631

I don't know if I can good to that length to hostage the bank or something. But one thing is for sure, if people could just learn how to put their money on bitcoin or crypto, in which they have total control, maybe in times of need, you can just transfer some and convert it to fiat anytime you want. You don't need to be a hero.

In other news,  Video Shows Tanks Protecting Crisis-Hit Banks In China, Internet Says "History Repeats Itself".