Does Kurd deserve their own country ?

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: countryfree on August 04, 2014, 08:40:23 AM

The Kurds have even more rights to have Kurdistan than the Jews to have Israel, a country invented in 1947.

Let's not make a comparison. The Jews should have the freedom to live in their homeland, where they face no anti-semitism. That homeland can be Israel, Jordan, Uganda, Madagascar, or even Birobijan.

Similarly, the Kurds also deserve a right to live in a nation where it is legal to speak their language and practice their customs. This homeland should be inclusive, i.e it is not only for the Sunni Kurds, but also for the Kurdish minorities as well, such as Shiite Kurds, Yazidis, Christian Kurds and Jewish Kurds.

Daniel91

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Quote from: dKingston on July 31, 2014, 10:58:25 AM

Now is the perfect time for Kurds to create their own country while shite and sunni are fighting each other. They deserve to own their own country, they have right to decide their own future. I think Oboma should send that funding to the Kurds instead of the ISIS terrorist.

Yes, in idealistic world you will be perfectly right.
In fact, Kurds was cheated in 1920 by France and England at peace conference and didn't get their freedom and free nation.
But, in today's world, everything is decided by the political interest, not right of justice.
So, whatever Kurds will get independence or not will be decided by the world powers, according to their current political interest in this conflict area, if they want united Iraq or 3 different states.

countryfree

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Syria and Irak as we know them are mostly invented countries, made up right after WW1, by British and French generals. The Kurds were forgotten at the time, but they have as much right to their own country as Turks or Greeks. The Kurds have even more rights to have Kurdistan than the Jews to have Israel, a country invented in 1947.

bitsmichel

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Quote from: dKingston on July 31, 2014, 10:58:25 AM

Now is the perfect time for Kurds to create their own country while shite and sunni are fighting each other. They deserve to own their own country, they have right to decide their own future. I think Oboma should send that funding to the Kurds instead of the ISIS terrorist.

I think this is a very good point, while they are fighting they could claim their own land. They may get US support, if it is in the interest of the US government.

dKingston

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Now is the perfect time for Kurds to create their own country while shite and sunni are fighting each other. They deserve to own their own country, they have right to decide their own future. I think Oboma should send that funding to the Kurds instead of the ISIS terrorist.

Bogleg

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One needs to earn his own like everyone else in this world. The world don't owe you, me, or the Kurd anything.

Zz

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Most of the right viewed Turks doesn't like Kurds at all. They can fuck off to Turkey and build their own country in Iraq or somewhere.

hologram

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"In the last ten years we tried hard with our Shiite and Sunni partners to establish a new pluralistic and democratic federal Iraq. But unfortunately it was an unsuccessful attempt. We can say Iraq is now partitioned, but we are not responsible for this. We saw setbacks in the implementation of the constitution and agreements that Kurds reached with other parties, particularly the rulers in Baghdad. It is also difficult for us to keep waiting for an uncertain future, waiting in vain for implementation of the constitution and our rights. Kurds have no choice but to think of another path, toward self-determination."

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2014/07/masoud-barzani-kurdish-independence-201471719176616433.html

hologram

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Kurdish forces seize disputed oilfield
Kurdish region claims disputed northern oilfield as twin bombings at the entrance to province's capital kill 31.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/kurds-quit-iraq-government-maliki-protest-201471110177733877.html

Daniel91

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Quote from: Leina on July 12, 2014, 05:46:11 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on July 11, 2014, 04:09:31 PM

Kurds was cheated after World War I.
They received false promise from World powers that they will get their own country when WW I end and Turkish empire collapse, but this didn't happen and France and England divided between themselves Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Israel and other Arabic area.
It will be justice for Kurds now if this injustice from Paris conference in 1920 will be corrected now.
I don't think that Iraq have much chance to survive as united country now, anyway.

Pretty naive to think the world has room for justice.

Just about every successful country fought for their own land and make a great deal of sacrifice doing it. Even if Kurds is freely given some land that don't belong to them, how long do you think they can maintain it before being taken away by another stronger neighbors?

I just commenting some historical facts from my perspective.
Of course that every nation have to fight for their own political freedom but still I think that at least Kurds deserved the same chance as Israel in 1948, right to choose by themselves how and where they want to live.
Of course, there is no ideal solution for everybody in World politics, but still there is clear difference between good and bad decisions by world powers.
Very bad decisions after WW I, specially connected with Germany, was one of the main cause for WW II.
This is clear fact, obvious to anyone.
Establishment of EU and NATO after WW II was very good political decisions and helped political stability in Western Europe for over 60 years now.

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: Leina on July 12, 2014, 05:46:11 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on July 11, 2014, 04:09:31 PM

Kurds was cheated after World War I.
They received false promise from World powers that they will get their own country when WW I end and Turkish empire collapse, but this didn't happen and France and England divided between themselves Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Israel and other Arabic area.
It will be justice for Kurds now if this injustice from Paris conference in 1920 will be corrected now.
I don't think that Iraq have much chance to survive as united country now, anyway.

Pretty naive to think the world has room for justice.

Just about every successful country fought for their own land and make a great deal of sacrifice doing it. Even if Kurds is freely given some land that don't belong to them, how long do you think they can maintain it before being taken away by another stronger neighbors?

Cough I had a feeling you were hinting at Israel there

But true enough the Kurds need a strong army to handle the other countries that said they have a few good things going for them one secure enough oil supplies two a fairly stable country/economic situation compared to Iraq, three they are not Israel lol. (mean they have a lot of people of a similar enough ethnic background to other nearby countries)

With those factors it should not be impossible for them to stabilize a nation if they aren't destroyed by a powerful outside cough (westernized) influence.

Leina

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Quote from: Daniel91 on July 11, 2014, 04:09:31 PM

Kurds was cheated after World War I.
They received false promise from World powers that they will get their own country when WW I end and Turkish empire collapse, but this didn't happen and France and England divided between themselves Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Israel and other Arabic area.
It will be justice for Kurds now if this injustice from Paris conference in 1920 will be corrected now.
I don't think that Iraq have much chance to survive as united country now, anyway.

Pretty naive to think the world has room for justice.

Just about every successful country fought for their own land and make a great deal of sacrifice doing it. Even if Kurds is freely given some land that don't belong to them, how long do you think they can maintain it before being taken away by another stronger neighbors?

Daniel91

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Kurds was cheated after World War I.
They received false promise from World powers that they will get their own country when WW I end and Turkish empire collapse, but this didn't happen and France and England divided between themselves Iraq, Iran, Palestine, Israel and other Arabic area.
It will be justice for Kurds now if this injustice from Paris conference in 1920 will be corrected now.
I don't think that Iraq have much chance to survive as united country now, anyway.

bryant.coleman

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There are some 35 million Kurds living in the Middle East right now. 15 million in Turkey, 8 million in Iran, 6 million in Iraq and 3 million in Syria. If Kurdistan becomes an independent nation, its population will be almost twice that of Syria!

Leina

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Kurd needs to learn that to have their own country, they need to fight for it and not freely given by someone else.

Honeypot

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 09, 2014, 02:23:04 PM

If the Arabs can have two dozen nations for them, then why can't the Kurds have just one for them? I am in support of an independent Kurdistan.

Arabs can have two dozen nations in which they try to impose their ethnic attitudes on the native populations and older cultures, but cannot stomach the thought of independent strong israel or kurdistan.

hologram

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If Kurd wait for a stable Iraq they will just be bomb if they ask for independence...

And i don't understand what Israel and USA have to do with an independent Kurdistan, it's not the question and it's not an argument. But some people here will say sky is pink is USA say sky is blue...

Sithara007

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If the Arabs can have two dozen nations for them, then why can't the Kurds have just one for them? I am in support of an independent Kurdistan.

noviapriani

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I don't blame the Kurds at all for wanting to be out of the mess that is Iraq. From what I understand they have figured out away for many diverse groups to live together. I only hope that the fanatics in that region will leave them alone in peace.

zolace

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The Kurds think they are safe in the support they get from USA, Israel and Turkey to break up from Iraq,little that they know that these so called supporters will abandon them when there is a need to do that.

baebygoodnight

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Quote from: sana8410 on July 09, 2014, 10:04:34 AM

Quote from: hologram on July 06, 2014, 03:04:03 PM

Kurd are spread in 6 country in the middle east, i think they have no chance to get the complete Kurdistan, but they have a chance to get an independent Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria. Do not forget that Turkey and Israel have interest to see an independent Kurdistan.

Kurds will determine their future and they will definitely have their state. I wonder how the Arabs will be treated in Kurdistan? And I wonder what kind of agreements they make with Israel, Iran, Turkey, and Iraq?

There's a reason the Arabs flee to Kurdistan, they're safe there. Same for other ethnicities and religions.

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Quote from: sana8410 on July 09, 2014, 10:04:34 AM

Quote from: hologram on July 06, 2014, 03:04:03 PM

Kurd are spread in 6 country in the middle east, i think they have no chance to get the complete Kurdistan, but they have a chance to get an independent Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria. Do not forget that Turkey and Israel have interest to see an independent Kurdistan.

Kurds will determine their future and they will definitely have their state. I wonder how the Arabs will be treated in Kurdistan? And I wonder what kind of agreements they make with Israel, Iran, Turkey, and Iraq?

Divide and conquer. It is in Israel interest to have as many smaller nations as possible in the neighbors.

sana8410

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Quote from: hologram on July 06, 2014, 03:04:03 PM

Kurd are spread in 6 country in the middle east, i think they have no chance to get the complete Kurdistan, but they have a chance to get an independent Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria. Do not forget that Turkey and Israel have interest to see an independent Kurdistan.

Kurds will determine their future and they will definitely have their state. I wonder how the Arabs will be treated in Kurdistan? And I wonder what kind of agreements they make with Israel, Iran, Turkey, and Iraq?

Rigon

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I am not against any Kurds and their state but the timing is not good to demand Kurdish state..this will leave other Iraqi people demoralize while they are going through very heartbreaking and tragic time..Kurd must work for united Iraq...at least for Now...But kurds know they will not get anything later....

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: hologram on July 08, 2014, 04:41:06 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on July 07, 2014, 07:44:28 PM

So do I they would need a person who can tactically strategize and balance the Kurds interests in a fairly unstable part of the world
Of course they would need to convince the Iranian's to break apart or move to autonomy as well.
As for the Shias they can handle them if they keep the army and border secure.

i think first they need to have reasonable objective, like independent Iraq Kurdistan.

It's a step by step basis first ask for independent autonomy from Iraq then move onto independent province/territory then leave the country and become an independent nation.

Lethn

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Quote from: wenben on July 08, 2014, 10:37:56 AM

If every race/culture/community trying to claim sovereign, we would have total chaos in the world right now.

....... Don't we already have total chaos in the world right now? Propaganda seems to have you pretty well fooled.

http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static1329446051

wenben

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If every race/culture/community trying to claim sovereign, we would have total chaos in the world right now.

baebygoodnight

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As a Kurd, some of these comments are making me so happy. An independent Kurdistan is the dream of every Kurd, and I can not wait till the day I can finally hug my dad and tell him that he was a Peshmerga for a reason and that I am happy to see our dream come true. We can no longer be ignored, Kurdistan will become a reality.

hologram

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on July 07, 2014, 07:44:28 PM

So do I they would need a person who can tactically strategize and balance the Kurds interests in a fairly unstable part of the world
Of course they would need to convince the Iranian's to break apart or move to autonomy as well.
As for the Shias they can handle them if they keep the army and border secure.

i think first they need to have reasonable objective, like independent Iraq Kurdistan.

Honeypot

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Kurds got shafted hard....they should have their country. So far at least from non arab or no turkic point of view, kurds are one of the more reasonable groups willing to work together with other people of the earth minus those that want them exterminated.

Remember, saladin was a kurd.

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: hologram on July 07, 2014, 11:46:54 AM

I hope Barzani is a political genius

So do I they would need a person who can tactically strategize and balance the Kurds interests in a fairly unstable part of the world
Of course they would need to convince the Iranian's to break apart or move to autonomy as well.
As for the Shias they can handle them if they keep the army and border secure.

hologram

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I hope Barzani is a political genius

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: tinof on July 07, 2014, 12:12:04 AM

Divide and conquer strategy.

Having many small nations in the middle east not capable of defending themselves by their own certainly work well for the current empire.

True although considering that keeping it one unified country was such a mess in this case having smaller countries might help stabilize the region
Basically those three groups have not been able to get along as a country better to have them each have one besides the Kurds have the army to back their forces unlike the weaker Iraq part.

Personally the Kurds probably have the strongest roots to the Persian empire and deserve the chance to make their own country and nation and not third class citizens
http://www.voanews.com/content/kurdish-president-conditions-are-favorable-for-independence/1949439.html

“This is a natural right that must be achieved,” Barzani said, adding that he hopes to conduct a referendum within months. “ I believe now the conditions are also favorable for independence. … Once achieved, we will help our brethren in Iraq, within our capabilities, to help Iraq maybe surmount the current crisis.

Pretty much translated as we bail Iraq out they rather not betray us and remember they owe us one here for saving their sorry asses and for trying our best to live as one nation for years. ^_^.

Barzani said that for years, Kurds have been treated as “second- and third-class citizens. That is why, from now on, we will not accept such treatment," adding that this is another reason he is pushing for independence for the Kurdish people.

CryptInvest

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Yes, let them roll to hell and live as they want. Just do not ask for humanitarian aid.

tinof

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Divide and conquer strategy.

Having many small nations in the middle east not capable of defending themselves by their own certainly work well for the current empire.

Sindelar1938

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Absolutely yes
Iraq is a colonial construct anyway with no real basis
It is time to redraw borders such that the aspirations of the people are met

TaunSew

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Quote from: jaberwock on July 06, 2014, 05:22:19 PM

I think the Kurds deserve their own country. I believe they are the most moderate faction in the Middle East and I think they deserve it.

Those countries in the middle east are carved out based on imperialistic interest and not base on national Identity, it must be corrected. To prevent wars in the future.

Tribal or regional identities =/= national identity. If you were to used that argument in the Middle East or Africa then we can do the same in Britain, Germany or Russia. Germany not long ago used to be divided, so let's break up that imperialistic state. Cheesy

jaberwock

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I think the Kurds deserve their own country. I believe they are the most moderate faction in the Middle East and I think they deserve it.

Those countries in the middle east are carved out based on imperialistic interest and not base on national Identity, it must be corrected. To prevent wars in the future.

TaunSew

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There's women serving in Iran's armed forces. Where do you think the Kurds' cultural values come from? Women were serving as common soldiers and officers in the past Persian Empires. Women had more rights in the past Persian Empires than in ancient Greece or Rome.

Debate contemporary nationalism all you want, that's not the discussion here, but anthropologically and historically the Kurds are an Iranic people. Iran is already the union of Iranic speaking peoples. The reality, which is why the Kurds have been suppressed for so long, is that the Kurds (joining Iran or having their own 'Kurdistan') would become a proxy to Iran.

I don't think the Arabs or Turks are interested in weakening their own countries by letting Kurdistan go, and in turn making Iran stronger or Iran having a strong proxy.

hologram

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Kurd are spread in 6 country in the middle east, i think they have no chance to get the complete Kurdistan, but they have a chance to get an independent Kurdistan in Iraq and Syria. Do not forget that Turkey and Israel have interest to see an independent Kurdistan.

Lethn

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They seem to be some of the only sane people I've found ( Unless of course someone digs up an old article of them acting crazy Sad

) that willingly live alongside people and don't constantly try to fuck the people over, adding to that they have a standing army and their region is pretty stable, not to mention the fact they have women openly serving in their armed forces which is more than the U.S can fucking say.

So yeah, unless they've been committing genocide or something secretly in their own region It would be nice to see them get their own country, problem is though, the western and eastern powers will never allow it, they're fighting incredibly hard just to keep us from even voting on anything when it comes to the EU and Scotland.

hologram

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Iraq's Kurds push for independence referendum
Country moves step closer to breaking up as regional government's president calls for preparation for vote to begin.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/iraq-kurds-call-independence-referendum-201473125010428418.html

Any opinion ?

Topic: Does Kurd deserve their own country ? (Read 2970 times)