Topic: Does Roger Ver control the Bitcoin price? (Read 744 times)

Roger Ver wont control the Bitcoin price he tired bitcoin fork earlier which cause bitcoin price to fall later bitcoin recovered

Craig Wright is a charlatan, a con artist, a clown, or whatever

But it is not just about price (or Craig Wright), even though it does ultimately come down to that (as the price, in turn, is the balance of supply and demand). You can influence Bitcoin indirectly in many subtle ways. For example, people en masse don't think that altocoins can eat away at Bitcoin's value but I for one think they are mistaken in that case

In this manner, you can massively affect Bitcoin via altcoins and more specifically Bitcoin Cash. The latter has turned into a good speculative vehicle. I trade it and it brings good profits. but isn't it what Bitcoin was famous for? My point is that making a good rival to Bitcoin in the form of an altcoin will inevitably affect its value and market valuation (price)

Agree, he is not directly controlling Bitcoin but, Bitcoin Cash gave a little bit negative impact to the original Bitcoin. This way makes new people a bit confused about which is the real one.

Though you open this thread somewhere in February,  we can not really rule-out if he is controlling bitcoin pricing or not.  I believe that this market is still very narrow and at the beginning stages and those early adopters can still manipulate it.

Nobody could control bitcoin prices, they can influence it, they can change it but no matter what they do it will be short period of time.

Look at Craig wright, he sold thousands of bitcoin to drop the price, we are back up again. Which means they can influence it and even change it but can't control it, its in everyones' hands to actually control the bitcoin price.

It is a p2p system and one person  can have only so much power, without any centralized work there would be no one person that can control it, that is why people love bitcoin, it is out of everyones' reach as well as in everyones' hand at the same time. If you think about it bitcoin even has a bit of communism in it as well, like its equal chances for everyone but never more than others for one person.

People cannot be influence easily now, they think more matured compared to the past, maybe they learn a lot because of last year's long drought.
Now, bitcoin has increased and stable again, I think most of us are already believing it's time for the market to recover and rise again, old names cannot influence anymore but new names with big influence can,... but FUD is over, it's time to hype the market again.

I also don't think he can control the price, to control the price of bitcoin will be need the money from a lot of  millionares people and even so they will not risk and put all money on bitcoin.

And if you've been around long enough you know he has exactly that, not just thousands, think tens of thousands, if not hundreds.

He can possibly control the market if he owned thousands of bitcoin. If ever that was true, he can do whatever he wants with the market like pump or dump. But I can also say that it is also possible that it was just a mere coincidence. We can never tell unless we can prove that he is one of the so called "whale" in crypto market.

No one can control the free market including roger ver himself, the truth though is that anyone with status in the society can influence the price by causing a FUD news either positively or negatively but it won't stay for so long. I don't think it was because of what roger ver said that drove the price of bitcoin up but because it's time for a bull run. It's just a coincident.

Lol. He can't even control the decline of bch. Roger ver's influenced i think has waned already over the year and though he still has quite a following, he certainly doesn't have any control over the market in general.

We can call Ver "influencer", but to control the market price of the biggest crypto out there is a over statement. They have their own agenda when they pushed their so-called hash war, that has impacted the market price to literally go down the drain but for me this is not control, but just the negative effects of their action, nothing more.

No body controls the price of bitcoin and no one can, the price recovery is not because someone said so, yes they could manipulate the price by releasing negative news one after the other and that will have an impact on the market, the bitcoin cash and BSV split had a role in the market going down further because of the uncertainty on what will happen and the investors wont take risk if a situation like that is present and so is the reason the market went down.

As far as I know no one can control the price of bitcoin but it seems all whales can do it. Maybe you can control the price of bitcoin if you have lot of it but if you don't have you can't control. So I think Roger Ver can manipulate or control the price of bitcoin if he have lot of it.

Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that he hates Bitcoin

It means that he tries to push his agenda for Bitcoin Cash, but having an agenda already means he is not honest and sincere. You wouldn't really expect true hate from an insincere individual. Anyway, he should be interested in Bitcoin's growth because without this growth Bitcoin Cash won't grow either. Apart from that, he most likely has real bitcoins himself (and probably a lot of them), so it is hardly the case he should in fact hate Bitcoin. He just tries to capitalize off it, nothing more (and nothing personal)

The fact that bitcoin is decentralized comes to play here. If bitcoin is so decentralized like we assume there are two options, either one person can't really change the price or one person could have power to move the price all by himself.

Now, there are arguments on both side, decentralized usually means not having the power to change the coin itself and not the price, which means lets assume there are 21 million bitcoins at max, one person can't make it 22 million and that is called decentralized but could move the price by just buying and selling wholesale (like buying OTC and selling on market which losses them a lot of money but also kills the market).

With that in mind the negative is there has been a lot of times when a whale sold a bunch of (thousands of) bitcoin all at once which dropped the price which means bitcoin can be controlled by one person since it can be manipulated that way. We really can't say which train of thought is the correct one.

All those plebs coming out with absolute statements are fools really.    Even if we were talking plain dollars to dismiss it outright is nonsense, dollars are digital and highly useful.    To really point out the likely decline of a standard you must first accept why it is currently superior in usage but then why you believe there will be a trend change.
   Just trash talking and dismissing other peoples work like he is does is barely worth even reading, its a waste of time and I'm receiving no insights from what are basically just rants

Contrast, compare, consider various points major and minor and sure I'll read any take down from just about anyone touting their crypto standard.

all that you saw were coincidences, he has in the past helped to spread the word about bitcoin, but with the passing of time he has strayed from the path and lost credibility and reputation in the community, which is why I do not believe he has any influence on the price. look what he said days ago:

Roger Ver attacks Bitcoin BTC; accuses the world’s top cryptocurrency of “censorship”


this clearly shows that he hates bitcoin

I can't say that I completely disagree with you

As it mostly depends on what we are to consider "influence" here, i.e. how much of the price change should be considered inconsequential and how much important. In this way, technically anyone can influence the price to a certain degree, but if you mean major changes on the order of dozen percentages, then only a few can do that, for example, top exchanges like Bitfinex (which regularly drive shorters mad by moving prices as much)

Another conspiracy theory. It's funny how everyone likes to  point out that Bitcoin is decentralized and independent and in the next moment the theory about one person controlling Bitcoin appears. To my opinion this is not possible, not even on the level of influence. Even some influental and powerful groups could hardly influence the Bitcoin price and for individuals this is out of the question.

manipulating power does not depend on the quantity of person but it depend on the quality of person . let say there is a group of people that decide to become a whale and they have a budget of 10 btc   . on the other hand there is a single person who decides to manipulate the market and he have a 15 btc  . who do you think will win ?  these might also happen on the case of roger ver  . he can dump or pump the market because he want to give way for his own creation .

roger ver will never be able to control the price of bitcoin alone, Rogers Ver only becomes a person who influences the price movements of Bitcoin Cash, while for Bitcoin Rogers Ver will not be able to control it.

Such a single person cannot control or manipulate the market but he may have a little manipulation power but it's not enough. The real answer is that when Bitcoin was on the top so it should have to go low again in order to gain some investors for wide adoption. It could help to raise the price of Bitcoin though whales are the ones doing it so we just have to follow what is the action of the market.

He doesnt control, but he influences it.

A good speculator makes the most of opportunity that presents itself.  I doubt he has any better control on BTC then many others but choosing when to try and tip the scales is possibly a smart action he is able to take.   'Control' is giving Ver far too much credit, jump behind an already observable trend would be not anything special and far more likely.   Its not one person that moves a price, if the exchanges were that thin it would not be useful as a market

I don't think it should have been much bigger

After all, the market had already been rising, so they were not going against it (which would be downright stupid) but rather added a little more fuel to the furnace. How much a little more remains to be seen. In this way, there are two questions to be asked and answered. First, was Bitfinex printing non-backed tethers since if they did, that pretty much means the market growth was fake (at least, to a certain degree)? And, second, if they hadn't, where's the money then which fueled all this party?

One person only can control the price only one way, buying or selling. If he doesn't buy or sell bitcoin than he can't decide on the price in other way. If he is not buying bitcoin to increase it or if he is not selling bitcoin to drop the price than all his talks are not really that important.

Bitcoin is not speculative in a way that just talking would affect bitcoin that much. Bitcoin cash war did affected the price but not because of the hard fork itself but because they needed to sell bitcoin to fuel their war and they needed to buy hash power and all that with it, the price drop was because of that. Also just because he supports bitcoin doesn't mean the price increased because of that, price was already dropping and needed to go back up for a correction.

You are overrating the impact of Roger Ver's stack on the market. Yes, he has a big twitter megaphone, yes, he's a domain squatter using bitcoin dot com and bitcoin's twitter handle to push his agenda, and he has a decent amount of coins, but blaming the continuation of the bear market on him is delusional. He certainly helped with the whole fork clusterfuck but your thread title says "control specifically" and that's just not the case.

Also coin's wise, he's lost many on shitcoin investments, funding PR, mining forks and so on.

that's a nice theory but the numbers don't seem to add up regarding the hack. bitfinex issued ~$70million worth of BFX tokens after the hack. from that, a significant amount was converted to equity in the parent company. by early october 2016 (long before the bubble began), there were only ~$48 million in BFX tokens remaining. all the while, they continued to do record-breaking volumes and became the world's biggest exchange. near the end of the year, they should have been making $100k+ a day in fees and it was constantly growing. if only half the outstanding october debt were converted to equity, the other half could easily have been repaid through operating profits.

bitfinex releasing $20-30 million into the market at once (redeeming BFX tokens for USD) obviously had an effect. naturally some of those people bought BTC with that money, especially because it was already in a strong uptrend. but that was literally only like ~20k bitcoins back then at those prices. there's no way that caused the market to then rise another $18k-19k over 8 months, lol.

so there's no reason to lump the bitfinex hack in there. if tether printing (as in, non-backed USD liabilities) really affected the market, it would have had to be several orders of magnitude bigger. of note: when the market topped in december 2017, the tether market cap was ~$1.1 billion. the tether market cap continued rising until october 2018 when it peaked around $2.8 billion. so the market crashed in spite of the continued tether printing.

people are always looking for explanations why the market does what it does. at the end of the day, bitcoin was pumping for the better part of a year, on massive volumes across the entire world. trying to blame that on tether is silly.

Roger Ver doesn't control the price. All he can do is influence the mind of those who have weak hands. Always remember no one knows what were going to happen exactly. All he say was just a speculation, to create an FUD. He is a supporter of BCH, so he will try to make that coin be on top.

Man, seems you forget one thing, for roger ver, bitcoin is bitcoin cash, not actually bitcoin, at least he thinks so. So no, he doesn't have any control on Bitcoin's price, nor on BC. All he can and does also is hard try of making bitcoin cash more popular than bitcoin but according to coinmarketcap, his shit is on 6th place, people even prefer ripple over bitcoin cash, that answers every question.

There's more to it than you think

If it was real money that made the price rise from zero to hero and all the way up to almost 20k (within just one year), then where did that money go? As a conspiracy theory, let's recall that in August 2016 Bitfinex was hacked with over 120k bitcoins stolen. So how could they repay that debt? After they redeemed all BFX tokens in early 2017, they started to run "quantitative easings" with Tether, which allowed them to buy up real bitcoins with fake dollars and close the liquidity gap after the token redemption. That made Bitcoin go parabolic. Then they stopped printing tethers and the price expectedly crashed. It is basically the same thing as with Mt. Gox but done right this time

There are even bigger whales than Ver but we don't hear about them every day. Roger is an attention whore. If you ignore him long enough he'll eventually get bored and leave the scene. Just like Craig Wright.

there was the bitstamp bearwhale back in 2014. i think that wall took a few days to break.

i agree though. i might give it a day or so to account for banking delays, but if real people are buying/selling a price level for any sustained period of time, that's the real price. that's why i don't buy the BS about willy bots and tether printing either. sure, maybe there were efforts made to pump the price. you think those alone could sustain bubbles (with full-fledged media coverage) for months and months? of course not. real money did that.

He can not do anything with bitcoins price. He tried and failed to control his own variant of bitcoin instead caused it to plummet in price.
There was a picture in wall observer which showed what he should look like now.
I will try and find it for you.

update found it!

From this post https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49704360

Since bitcoin is decentralized I think he is not controlling bitcoin but people and investors are reacting to what he said through their investments channel.  In cryptocurrencies Roger ver has establish strong influence and those influence is what we are seeing in coins pricing.  I believe that in future we would began to understand all this and we should be able to invest along all this fundamentals statement.

Roger can't control the market, The market reaction it's because of that news Hash War. This BCHSV & BCHABC makes the market down into the next support zone because he must cover the hash power fund. All trader just follow the trend market.

I see what you mean

And this is where we disagree. In short, you assume that there is some form of price destiny (like where price "organically" belongs). I say that the whole thing is meaningless like when someone moves the price down and it stays there (with the rest completely inconsequential). Then someone else moves it up and it remains there all over again. In this way, the whole market may be indifferent as to where the price currently is or might be. So there is no "destiny" as it all comes down to someone moving the price hither and thither



To put it differently, the price can be both dead and alive, organic and arbitrary

I would not call drops or rises organic. Both can be triggered by one entity. I would call their lingering result organic because it's where everyone else agrees the price should be.

Dumps that are rapidly bought up or rises that are rapidly dumped into until they're squashed signal that the majority doesn't agree with that attempt to change the price.

If the one particular person who initiates a dump to 3k doesn't do it, someone else would've been along at some point to fulfill that destiny.

Roger Ver definitely have some influence on the price like every powerful person in his area. It's like Jeff Bezos to comment some retailer without influence the retailer's stock price. But its exaggerated to talk about total price control over Bitcoin from one person.

I basically agree with this part

Moreover, I've been telling folks here essentially the same thing about the hash war as it was likely only the trigger that started an avalanche of sell-offs which brought the prices to their current levels. However, we don't see a lot of action today as well as we didn't see a lot of action before the Bitcoin Cash split

This somehow makes you question the whole validity of your point. In other words, if someone sells a couple (thousand) bitcoins now and the price plummets below 3k, it will most likely remain there. Would it count as an organic drop? But if he didn't sell, the price would remain where it is now. Would that count as an artificial drop?

That's a wrap, case closed.

Seriously though, Roger Ver strongly pushed BCH while trying to down talk BTC (even going as far as selling people BCH as Bitcoin), yet it amounted for very little. Seeing how little control he has over the Bitcoin Cash price his influence on the Bitcoin price is probably pretty much zero. So I believe that any correlation one may see between Roger Ver's comments and Bitcoin's price fluctuations is based on retroactive attribution, rather than causality.

these could easily be coincidences. roger might be an altcoin pump-and-dumper (bcash, dash, etc) but he doesn't control shit. he's not that rich, he doesn't control much hash rate, and people respect him less and less as time goes on. i really wouldn't worry about him.

neither do I even believe the price of bitcoin is down not because of the split bitcoin cash, maybe it's just a coincidence to get a deeper fall in bitcoin prices but unfortunately stopped at $ 3500, many people predicted it was below $ 2000 including me, but we will see it again at the end of the year all prices will return to improve

It may have influence if he created FUD (well he's been attacking Bitcoin anyways), but I think it was Craig Wright's statement or the email that he will sell his stash of bitcoin to fund their ongoing feud back then that may have caused the price go from $6xxx-$36xx.

That freedom also permits people to accumulate vast amounts.

You don't have to have vast amounts to have a strong influence over one strong price movement. This market is currently so weedy that the majority are looking for others to make a move to follow, and the rest will be bots that pile in to whatever is sparked.

You could throw away a few thousand coins at provoking a plunge but if the price goes down and stays down then that's looking like the 'true' price to me. No one can keep a price down for more than a few hours artificially.

Honestly at first when Bitcoin forked with Bitcoin Cash back in Aug 2017, I was worried that there might be a flippening due to the 10 minute block time difficulty adjustments and BCH people attacking the chain, so I basically held both coins.

However after looking that BTC was simply impossible to destroy and many honest miners were essentially mining BTC at a loss, it goes to prove how people are protecting BTC.

So basically even if someone like Roger Ver or that Craig Wright wanted to destroy it, I don't think they could.

I don't see how any of the con artists Roger is linked to or works with will do anything to tank the price of BTC. They are mining it with most of their hashrate, and a BTC drop means that BCH drops even harder.

I'm more inclined to say that there have been a few large players that might have been triggered to unload because of how the hashwar was gaining a lot of momentum on social media.

If you add that there were a lot of stops positioned below the $6000 mark, you'll understand that it doesn't take much to trigger a massive sell-off. The volumes perfectly reflected the panic that was going through the market.

I can't see any significance with what he said, did he said anything lately about supporting bitcoin? (not his BCH). He doesn't have the controlling power like a mad whale in the market, he has more focused with his BCH.

I'd be surprised if it is reported that he's turning back to bitcoin and starts to abandon his BCH. I don't think that he has much influence with the market anymore, his BCH has been struggling because of the bearish market.

He can affect a small mass, ''controlling prices as he wish'' is far from accuracy. At the last price drop, the new fork could have played a role because everyone sold BTC and headed for the BCH and I do not think this is directly connected with Roger Ver, it was just to make easy money. IMO you should not seek for a reason under every change.

Roger Ver for me try to manipulate the price, but his only target is to fill his pockets. He don't care about future of Bitcoin and for community.

I think that Roger Ver is a relatively not very large owner of bitcoins, although you can’t call him those who have no influence on the situation.  There are those who have much more power than he. I think the reason that his statements coincide with significant price movements is that he is well aware of real processes and real events and is deftly manipulating it.

The funniest thing here is that Bitmain and Roger combined can't control the price of their centralized garbage coin. Bitmain bought up so much of that shit that they are literally afraid to buy more, but on the other hand, they can't drop buy support for their coin either, because that would devalue the holdings of their +1 million coins, which is another problem.

It's hilarious, there is next to no depth in any of the BCash books, so what the miners there do is hoard all the way down, and sell their BTC to pay the bills. The more BTC they sell, the less there is to utilize and buy BCash.

I strongly believe that with how serious Roger was about BCash, that he converted a sweet chunk of his BTC holdings to BCash at +0.20BTC levels early on. It really would surprise me if turns out that this imbecile holds more than 10,000BTC today.

Strange question. I am unaware of anything positive Ver has said on Bitcoin. His entire reason for existing seems to be to trick people into thinking BCH is Bitcoin. Nothing Ver has said made the price increase a few hundred dollars, which is a pretty normal volatility anyways.

The price dropped in November because of the hash war that ensued after the BCH split, because the hash war affected Bitcoin as well. Had nothing to do with anything Ver said after the fact.

Ver has no control over the price. Neither of those events had anything at all to do with anything Ver said or did.

yes i agree with you  roger ver impact prices of bitcoin much
i hope, he will come back to support level 5800 per btc again

If anything, Bitcoin Cash split was a trigger of that crash

But it would happen even without the split. Really, do you believe that the price action of the two coins which are now worth less that 200 dollars combined could affect Bitcoin's price in any noticeable degree? That's hilarious. Regarding Roger Ver specifically, if his words were so influential as you assume them to be, why don't we see Bitcoin Cash surging now, which is essentially his creation? These are simple questions answering which gives you a chance to better understand how inconsequential Roger Ver is (on par with John McAfee's, I guess)

What statement are saying? No one can control the price of Bitcoin because it is a decentralized cryptocurrency. Any statement by an influenced person can affect investors to sell their coins by spreading FUD but they cannot control what should be the price of Bitcoin in the market. About the price reaching $3600-$3700, there are lots of reasons for that to happen, remember that this is just a small rise in price and it happened a lot of times before. And there's no way to find out all the reason of the price increase.

He can’t even control the price of his own shitcoin (BCH) which has a much lower marketcap so no, he definitely does not control the price of bitcoin.

Gosh, I don't remember but there was something in the news before the fall from the $6k, I may not mention correctly when it was, but he did say something back then, it was all over the news, I will try to find it and show it to you.

Most likely it could be and maybe even a part of it, actually because some well-known people who also have a lot of crypto assets in large numbers make some people worry about this because there must be a little manipulation they do to turn the market

He does have (or used to have) big amounts of Bitcoin.
He has his tail into quite a big number of Bitcoin businesses (and their boards).

So he can affect it directly on the exchanges, but I think that he could get bankrupt if he goes on this path for long enough.
And he can affect it indirectly by affecting the decisions certain Bitcoin related companies take.

And he can (and does) damage Bitcoin with his "bcash is the real bitcoin" propaganda of bad taste and his imploding altcoins (forks).

Which statement are you referring too? The earliest comment I found from Roger Ver about BCH / BSV was mid- to late November, ie. when Bitcoin already hit the 3000s.

In general I don't think Roger Ver's comments have much influence on Bitcoin's price.

True question should be that Can Roger Ver control the Bitcoin price.

And I don't think he can. He may affect it a little but can't control. It is not easy to control it somehow.

About 2 months ago Roger Ver spoke about the split of Bitcoin Cash and BSV.
Since then Bitcoin's price dropped from $6,500 to the $3,000 area.

Now he made a statement about supporting Bitcoin etc. etc. - and now we see the Bitcoin price is touching $3,600 hovering even towards $3,700.

So I would like to ask - does Roger Ver control the Bitcoin price?
If not - how come every time he says something extraordinary the Bitcoin price changes drastically?

Bitcoin is supposed to be free of any control but it seems like a few people have more control over it than others ... which is a huge drawback of Bitcoin in that case.

What do you guys think?