Topic: Does sound money have to be Private? (Read 787 times)

Obviously, the best way to embezzles funds and participate in illegal activities is to maintain anonymity. Most people would say decentralization has contributed to the way rug pool and cybercrimes are being easily done in the society. But they get to forget that it has there is no monetary system that do not have an advantage and a disadvantage. Let's focus on the advantages here, decentralized system has helped us keep our funds private, only those who are ignorant of the privacy process were victims of scams. Of, course not everyone is tech savvy some needs time to learn and adopt to the system, yet after understanding it they fail to practices it.

If that's your definition of sound money, then we would be looking at something clandestine. That makes it look illegal and full of criminality. I don't think we want to look at Bitcoin in that light. Yes, Bitcoin tends eliminate third party interference but that aspect of transacting privately isn't what we should categorize Bitcoin with as no transaction is hidden on the Blockchain. Everyone who's interested in following up on transactions sees what's on it.

We really never can rule out that possibility of change in years to come, seeing that we now have memes on the Bitcoin chain which wasn't the case until this circle. So, we can't say of a certitude that change won't be possible in future.

Do you know when you talk about privacy illegality comes into their mind.
Yes, most times we would want to question ourselves that when we talks of privacy what more, to restricts others from knowing how much you own, operate and transact or knowing where we are storing funds, Is that all?
Then good if so, you can stop keeping your money in the bank but you can't deal without them why because you must need fiat for your final expenditures and even as that you needs it locally to be able to pay out bills and mores, hence you still bounces back to approval right?

Decentralized currency is not control by the government, and government officials don't have the power to control it like the way they use to control centralized currency to give value to centralized currency which is under the government control, and it require third party before your transaction can be successful.

If you what your money to be sound in the future by accumulating to make you wealthy, try to invest the money on decentralized currency because they have some seasons you can use to sell your coins to make a good profits.

If you have use BTC before to make any payment, you will know that decentralized currency is the best currency you can hodl privately, your friends or family members will not know that you have such huge amount of money.

I think you're right,and in addition to to that,with reference to research the ability of bitcoin to retain it value all these years,serve as a consistent medium of exchange and payment worldwide,and the rendered stability in the crypto space is relatively undeniable.The features that bitcoin embodies is effortlessly leading and ensuring Monetary stability in FINTECH.

This opinion is based on your understanding. The government have to regulate everything so that people would not create a backdoor where they will be transacting business without the notice if the bank which is differently regulated by the government.
Money is meant to be private because the government would have to track everything that is going on so that they can know where and how things are being handled. The digital currency has make us to see the light and that is why I keep seeing people that think they don't need fait currency anymore.

I think it would be nice if "sound money" was private and that it could remain that way, but unfortunately due to governments and government control, or the need for, there's just no way and money could be purely private the would become a currency that everyone adopts.  This is why I've always said that Monero has no chance to be able to become wide spread.

Governments are doing everything they can to severely limit what you can do with cash these days with the excuse of fighting criminals, and while it could be said they have a point, as criminals use cash for the majority of their transactions, at the same time they limit the freedoms of all of their citizens with those laws.

This is why bitcoin is such a powerful idea, as not only it is money that is not created by any government out there, but its decentralized nature allows you to at least have a little bit more privacy than what you can achieve with fiat.

As long there's demand and recognition then it would really be that impossible that it would really cease out to exist. As long there's demand then there's no way that it would really be able to be gone no matter what
government would really be trying out to suppress crypto but still it would really be existing as long they would really be that people who are really that supporting it. Although Fiat is really that centralized but doesnt
deny the fact that it is really that still relevant for us to make use of it on day to day living. It is really just that crypto or Bitcoin did really get that much attention on the time that people do able to obtain that
truly decentralized transactions without government intervention just like on what they are really that experiencing on fiat. This is why it did really make out such demand because of this main factor.
Although we cant really be able to deny that Fiat would really be still that cant be replaced when it comes on day to day transactions on which we know that this is really that pretty basic.

As long as we are dealing with fiat money, we can’t escape to that and we’ve been living for this kind of system since then not until Bitcoin came to make us realize the importance of decentralization and also the importance of being anonymous. Let’s just hope that crypto will remain true to its purpose and will remain free from any government manipulation and regulation. We have to protect crypto more at all cost because it giving us the freedom.

You have no option but rather you make use of the fiat currency, when raising issues like this if I may ask, what do you use? Cause every fiat currency doesn't support privacy and are controlled by third party. It's obvious most people value privacy more and from my definition of sound money, it can't be controlled by a third party, value should also be listed,  a sound money should have a good feature. For example bitcoin, if you're looking for freedom in terms of sound money I think you should go for bitcoin but it can be difficult sometimes depends cause not all country leader can be friendly with bitcoin.

Although it is the fact that the majority feels good about hiding their money from the Public and government eyes so that no one can know how much money this person is holding but buddy it is the world needs that need to be tracked to make the environment friendly so your transaction can be check in the form of records in the future sometimes we need the transaction statement of our account for the documentation work and for that it is necessary to make maintain our transactions record good so that our documentation makes good image for presentation.

Well if you are the one who do not want to make his single penny transaction on record so how will you cover this thing? Just a question as we know that most places do not accept crypto payments so we have to follow systems rules for now. What do you think??

Fiat was designed that way. That is, it is in a centralized system. But we can get money without being tracked by the centralized system. Namely with offline transactions such as farming and selling agricultural products to traders in the market. And we never save our money in the bank. So our ownership will not be traced. But that still doesn't mean we can completely maintain privacy. Because everyone who transacts with us will definitely know us. It's just that physical fiat can indeed hide its existence. This may be one of the advantages of physical fiat. but unfortunately fiat is not suitable for saving because its value can continue to decrease due to inflation.

Bitcoin was also created because we wanted to escape from the shadow of fiat which is always controlled by third parties, with the presence of bitcoin we can transact freely without any control and of course it is safer than fiat.

Other facts about bitcoin. Bitcoin was one of the first and safest assets created, now it has begun to be widely adopted by institutions and is even officially used as currency in countries such as El Salvador. Because they believe bitcoin is a digital asset that will continue to be used in the future because we have now entered the digital era. So the question is: Does sound money have to be private? Of course it's true, so you need to invest in bitcoin so that your finances are healthy in the future.

fiat is a product of the government and central banking, you cannot expect that when you transact using fiat it cannot be tracked by the government, because it is their product and it is their job to track where the money is used by citizens. so whether you like it or not, if you transact using fiat it will be monitored by the government.


and therefore bitcoin is here to offer a transaction system that is intervention-free, pseudonymous, secure and fast for users. if you want to transact privately with no third party in the transaction, then bitcoin is the right choice for you.

your description of sound money will go a long way to putting more narrative to what you're saying. Fiat has never been void of third party  interruption from the onset and that doesn't in any way imply that it's not sound. Although government sometimes becomes over regulative of the way people go about spending their money, if thier isn't such checks and balance then thier will be an high increase in the rate at which criminal minded individuals will go on stealing and spending money any how. One of the reason why government dims it necessary to regulate and have an eye on the rate at which people spend their money is basically to ensure that people with no evident source of income aren't seen spending above thier means and that if such is found, checks can be made and possible interrogation done to that effect.

Decentralized finance preaches freedom from those regulations but in a sense, it has it limitations as it's easy for government officials to look funds and shift it through those means without being noticed but outside of criminal aspect of decentralized finance, it is the best, safest and most direct way of making transactions such that a third party doesn't necessarily have to get involved but don't forget that even Bitcoin transactions are on a public blockchain which means it's not as private as you're probably thinking.

Yeah, I will support this until I am dead. Bitcoin is far superior "currency" than any other that we have seen so far. I say "currency" with quotations because people do think that it is not going to be all that complicated, and that should be the most important thing. We can't really make it change all that easily, and we need to remember that things can't really get any different or difficult.

We need to just consider how we can move forward with bitcoin as an asset but also remember it is a currency. I get that people like to invest into it and hold it and just not let go, but that's the asset version of it, in order to grow bitcoin even further, we need to consider it as a currency as well.

History shows that until now money has been an instrument tied to the government. With the regulations and controls that have been established by government authorities, this clearly shows the attachment of money to government authorities. and there is the idea of a currency that is outside the control of the government, such as crypto. Even though cryptocurrencies are not subject to any government regulations, because there are no laws or government regulations that regulate them, the government is currently trying to find common ground and regulate interactions between cryptocurrencies and currencies patented by the government. which shows a shift in dynamics in the way the government deals with financial innovation, with all efforts made by the government to monitor the existence and development of crypto as a broader financial system.

With all the ongoing changes, including dealing with the advent of digital currencies, it has become quite important to find the right balance between innovation, freedom and legal compliance.

Tracked but private. Monitored but uncorruptible. That is Bitcoin, and it is a way better money than the strips of paper that are printed infinitely by the US government.

The dollar has been adopted worldwide, but as a money that is constantly tracked and connected to person data and has to be approved by a third party? Why would any mentally healthy person prefer that over a better alternative? The dollar is obviously redundant and has been replaced by something greater. Bitcoin.

money has never had the consideration to ever have been "private" by default
throughout history all "money" has been the patent and creation and legalisation of kings, priests and governments. to which they have even centuries ago needed auditing and taxation. yep throughout history people have needed to declare their finances and pay taxes.. that was the default of money

its only recently where people came up with the idea of currency outside of the government. and wanting that currency to be separate from government supervision. however people walking, talking and living within the land/jurisdiction of a government have to still obey government laws,

by which governments initially had no scope in regards to non government moneys(like crypto). and so temporarily these non government money were exempt from the scope of government law as there was no law dictating how people should use things governments had no previous knowledge/scope/jurisdiction of, as crypto was new to the world.. in that crypto was not against the law or illegal as there was no legislation.. instead it was a third category "not illegal" due to lack of legislation confirming or denying it..

but governments are now writing legislation on how people in its jurisdiction can interact with non-government patented currencies
and so now governments want surveilance over crypto..

We won't be able to do that because for the basic concept of money that is currently in place they will still be centralized and we all know that so it will not be possible to force them to change the system as you expect because in the end it will not be possible and will not be in fiat.
Unless the discussion is bitcoin then indeed this is still very doable because the desire as you think it has happened in bitcoin because indeed they not only offer financial freedom but all forms of transactions we ourselves are free to do anything without any interference from others.

Therefore, from the beginning between fiat and bitcoin are contradictory but that does not mean they were created as enemies, it's just that this can be a comparison for us because both were created as a convenience for us.

What you say is somewhat true. But think about getting paid in Bitcoin where you don’t have to buy it from a centralized exchange? And what if it were possible that all your expenses could be done in Bitcoin as well, wouldn’t it give the maximum privacy then? Because no one would know it was a payment for whatever it was, and no one would know that the $20 worth you sent was you making a purchase or maybe you sending to another of your wallet, or a million other possibilities.

That is a very real difference between Bitcoin and any fiat currency so it is not surprising that the US dollar can be very easily tracked by the government itself. However, for Bitcoin, I don't think it is necessary to compare it with fiat currency because basically it is very different in several ways and one of them is as you said. Now there are more and more Bitcoin users due to the increasing trust of many people in Bitcoin's decentralization and not needing a third party when they want to carry out transactions.

It's a centralized currency that is controlled by the government and "belongs" to the government. So yeah, of course the government is going track how you are spending those money. For some people, they feel safe when using FIAT currency knowing that if something goes wrong, the banks/law/government will be able to help them to some extent. They don't have to worry about securing or taking care of the money as long as they save it in the bank. For them crypto currencies which are decentralized are too complicated and risky to hold. But they don't realize that the fiat money can be confiscated anytime and they can be denied access to their funds, where as coins like bitcoins only belong to them and no one can deny them access to it. By the way, even if you use bitcoin to make purchases, specially large purchases, you will need to declare it to the government. In the end of the day, nothing stays private.

Sound money means a currency that is free from devaluation and inflation, while good money means that it is not overly controlled by the government. Fiat money is issued and managed by the government, which limits personal freedom.

Cash transactions can provide some anonymity, but they are not very practical in today's world. That's where bitcoin comes in, both as a speculative asset and as a decentralized alternative with anonymous transactions, giving users more control over their financial privacy.

Initially FIAT currency was created to replace the use of exchange tools such as gold or silver. But when there are many transactions on an international scale, new problems arise, such as misuse of money for crime. That's why now every transaction will be tracked and verified by the Government. Some say this is just the government's excuse because recorded transactions mean the government knows where this huge influx of money is going and how much each person's wealth is.

But when it comes to sound money I think privacy is not something that is important. Firstly, for ordinary people, I think the number of our transactions will not be highlighted by any party. Secondly because we cannot achieve the privacy we want with today's technology. It's possible that Bitcoin can give you privacy/pseudonymy, but when you make a withdrawal you will use a bank, and your identity will be known to the government.

But I want you this, are you using centralized exchanges to buy and sell bitcoin? Do you use a bank or fiat for your bitcoin transactions? Bitcoin is a decentralized and privacy-preserving currency, but the irony is that to own bitcoin, we need to use banks, fiat , and centralized services. So are we truly anonymous or is our privacy 100% guaranteed when we own bitcoin?

Bitcoin is decentralized but that doesn't mean the people who use or own it will be the ones who can guarantee their privacy, it all depends on how we use them .

A government will argue the exact opposite, that a transaction that can be tracked and verified is not sound. The answer probably is somewhere in between. The government relies on taxation which is why they want to be sure that everything can be tracked and people don't engage in tax evasion. As for the average consumer that is looking for privacy there is still the option to use cash and not be tracked by the government. The problem with large cash purchases is that we need to meet the buyer or seller in person and don't know how safe that encounter is going to be.

You speak volume in my heart of the op sound money because the phrase got me laughing, because all money is sound just the operational different and privacy matters.
It's already clear about the operational system of Fiat and crypto currency it's left for whoever ever to choose the one that fit him/her regards to it style of investment and nature in which it's identity is desire to be hidden. I would repeat because I have seen allot if explanation regards to the clear standing between fiat and crypto currency that calling any one not sound is comparing two things with different objective.

There is a limit to that, you can be "hidden" in the sense that your name would not be known, but your wallet would be and everyone could follow where that money goes to. There are even companies that goes into detail and catch people who used mixers as well, there is rarely ever getting out. Most people who stole bitcoins from a place got caught because they were tracked and you can't find a way to get your bitcoins to become fiat cash without going into database, you will be caught.

That is why it is more about people not caring who you are when you are dealing with crypto, that seems to be the most important part. I believe it will get better with time, but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with freedom as much as you think.

This is exactly why I am using crypto as well, there isn't any type of changes made by some person who wants to make a change. That's literally the situation at fiat, some dude goes and says he wants this, and he gets it, that's it.

Of course people elect that person so it is not like some random guy, but at the end it is still one person. Whereas in crypto we all make our decision and not really make it any different, we could improve it and make changes if we want to, but that doesn't mean that we are going to be at the mercy of anyone else. This is why decentralized currency is far superior than centralized currency. Fiat is the old money, there is no need to keep investing in it, you will not gain anything from it at all.

All matters on someones financial literacy on which not all would really be that having that kind of level of knowledge when it comes to financial aspect or economic or something that connected into this one.
When it comes to about privacy then there's nothing we can hide into the government or any centralized platforms since each one of them would really be that connected to each other on which means
that information in regarding about you would really be that entirely be known and they could pull it our once its been requested. This is why you cant really be able to blame out people on finding out those
ways and methods that they would really be able to stop such tracking by making use of other alternatives such as crypto. 

There's no way that we could hide out our finances unless if its on fiat form but once you do able to touch up with those centralized services and other stuffs then
everything is really that been known.

So it is not good to put a large amount of money in the bank because we know that when we declare bankruptcy, we will not be able to claim the sum of the money that we entrusted to the bank. But we can't hide anything from them because the bank knows about our privacy; in short, our government also knows for sure.

That's why you can't blame the others either because they prefer to stay at home or because the others are in business or they will spin it in their business.

That's a good question because, historically, I don't think money has always been under state control. People used valuable things like literal gold as money, for example, although coins marked with the faces of rulers are also a very old and established thing.
To me, it's generally okay to use fiat, knowing that it's centralized and that all my digital payments with it are linked directly to my legal identity. But it's also very nice to have Bitcoin as an alternative, just to know that it's also an option.

I think the main thing to remember is that financial anonymity has advantages and disadvantages. Let's say you are a hacker and you found an exploit to steal millions of dollars worth of Crypto currencies from a third party wallet, then you transfer that to a unregulated exchange, where you launder or wash that money anonymously and you cash out that money... for the hacker that is heaven, but for the victim that is Hell.

Bitcoin is pseudo anonymous, but under the right circimstances all the transactions can be traced when you re-use addresses. Fiat transactions are open for anyone with the correct security clasifications and that includes corrupt government employees or people working in the Banks that might be working with the criminals.  

You are mixing two different concepts, which is money and the transactions you can make with it, both money and the transactions you did used to be private back in the days when precious metals were used to purchase anything, since anyone could mint a coin and you could buy whatever you wanted with it without the approval of any third party.

But governments soon realized the power they could gain if they interfered in that process, which is why they are trying to eliminate cash and bitcoin as well, so the world economy could function with private money and private transactions, it is just that this is a world governments do not want to see.

In the world we Iive in, I guess we can say so from the "government's point of view" and for money to go through the system can clear your name of any money laundering, tax invasion etc as there is a money trail should it pass through the bank system and you can point it's origin and the alike.

But from a cryptonians point of view, this is not sound as privacy isn't respected with all prying eyes on your money and someone somewhere is keeping tabs on you...I guess this is why crypto is a success!

In a decentralized setup, privacy will be respected but unfortunately when it comes to fiat privacy is thrown out of the window as the system needs to account for all the dollars which is also impossible to do..

I understand the discomfort of having transactions monitored and approved by someone else. However, while privacy is important, a degree of monitoring and regulation is essential for a healthy financial system. Tracking transactions helps prevent crimes like money laundering, tax evasion, and terrorism financing. This oversight fosters trust in the currency by providing security and protecting consumers from fraud with recourse options in case of disputes. While some level of financial privacy is valuable, completely unregulated systems open the door to abuse and threaten the long-term viability of any currency. A prime example is the high volatility of cryptocurrencies, whose uncontrolled value can fluctuate dramatically.

In general, I'd say, yes. Sound money should be that which provides freedom to its users. It won't be sound money if the bearer cannot make use of it without somebody else's approval. It won't be sound money if it doesn't fulfill its very function without the approval of somebody in power.

However, in all fairness, from the viewpoint of a law enforcer, for example, it might be efficient to have a currency that can be monitored. This would at least make their job easier in terms of stopping illegal activities. This is problematic, though. Not only does it encroach people's privacy, it is also prone to abuses.

I admit that it's hard to hit a balance regarding money.

Well it turns out quite a lot, is there an article link that can be trusted to find out the extent, sir?

I agree, because it is more comfortable to transact in your own hands and without any interference from others, although the safe claim at a bank sometimes makes me uncomfortable, but I used to not care too much because my transactions were still small and only local domestic users. With the blockchain I prefer to use usdt for transactions and keep prices stable, it has become a habit to send and save if I need it anytime very quickly without 3rd party validation.

So far crypto is spreading effectively and quickly, even though it is private and there is no special storage in the country more precisely personal. Unfortunately, there are ministries that want to monitor and even regulate when crypto transactions are made, especially when depositing and withdrawing funds . it's not a problem for cex users who are used to it, I prefer to use a non-custodial wallet or my own private wallet.
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Although there is government interference I think they have awareness in any financial activity, and hopefully in the future the legal protection for crypto transactions will be paid more attention, just like paying attention when taxing , cryptocurrency is a new trend that is perfect.

I don’t understand what you mean by sound money. I think you can just say that the US dollar is tracked by the US government and leaves no privacy. But a currency like Bitcoin is decentralized as there’s no middle man and it supports privacy because all that matters to receive money are wallet addresses and not our government names which can be identified.

Fungible is always the big word for a proper currency, openly plainly acceptable would seem to be implied in the best liquidity that a currency requires.   A private, dark pool hidden value seems to suggest opposite values to this basic tenet for currency.   There are no absolutes, either are possible but if we are talking about a competitive market and a variety of choices for currency as the modern world is especially online then I'd go with the open standard over the unknown hidden elements of some alternatives.

I agree. That is why they are regulating the exchanges and put in place the KYC rules. What reason would there be to stop people from exchanging freely and privately? 

Imagine if everyone used Bitcoin and you could go down to your local bike shop or bakery and buy some Bitcoin using your own Bitcoin node.  This was the vision of the creators of Bitcoin and that is why peer-to-peer transactions are so important.

I was just watching an interview with the CEO of Strike.  Companies like this are trying to benefit from the hype of Bitcoin without realizing what damage they are doing to it by promoting the convenience of the transaction for a small fee.

If you use FIAT money then you have to go through the bank's authorization for every transaction.  Because it is centralized.  The government will know all the transactions you do through the central bank audit information.  Crypto can be a solution to this.  If you use crypto and use a non-custodial wallet for it, you can make transactions to maintain privacy.  But here it is a matter of how you buy the cryptos.  While buying them you need to use the banking sector which links you to the same place

There are no hidden transactions. Everything is publicly accessible as it's a public ledger. On crime, that is not peculiar to Bitcoin and it's also not the most used for illegal transactions, not even close.

There's no way that you could really be able to hide off your transactions unless if you are that seated into those elites and vips or shall we called those who are sitting on the top then untraceable transactions could be possible since there's no one above you that would really be monitoring but if you are someone whose really just that an average joe then there's no way that you could really be able to make yourself that having that private transactions. Everything could really be seen when you are really that  dealing or making transactions with fiat and this is how centralized it is. This is why that crypto or Btcoin did really make out such popularity just because it did really remove that kind of centralization when it comes to transactions which there's no 3rd party involved.

Whether you do like it or not, if you do make yourself having those fiat transactions then everything could really be seen and checked and there's nothing you can do about it.
It would really be just that a common sense and even just that typical. Ex. you've been transacting some bank transfers which hits up the threshold then
you would really be asked for some verification on where those funds came from. lol

Great points.  Banks are trusted institutions. Bitcoin is trust-less.  Because there is no 3rd party to trust, the transaction is more efficient, privacy is better and the currency can't be devalued by a centralized group.

Banks are stealing value from the holders of the currency every day by printing it.  When you give them your value for safe keeping they loan it out on risk and make you a subordinate lender.  I don't see this as sound business practice. I see it as risky behavior that only benefits the Banks and puts the producer(you) in a risk on position. Because of these practices, In 2008 the Banks were insolvent and the solution was to print more money.  This devalued you currency to bail out the risk on institutions who provide almost no value to our system and should have gone out of business.

Banks are supposed to hold your money for safe keeping.  They Don't!!

If you think that is a sound system and a sound currency I would take another look.

You know that 99% of the worlds banking system relies on this, in your words, "unsound" system quite successfully and without fuss. Money is just a way to exchange value from one place to another. People used to barter sheep for shovels, or coal for a woolly hat, but that is too impractical so money was created to become effectively an I owe you note - allowing for much easier trade. That's all there is to it, if both parties are happy with the transaction then it doesn't really matter whether you think it is sound or not - the business is still being conducted. Transactions are not "approved" by the bank in the way that you seem to suggest, if a bank did not complete a transaction they would quickly lose the faith of the public and implode as a business.

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to e seized."

I think the right to Privacy is fundamental.  An invasion of that privacy a key part of an individuals sovereignty. Because we would like to exchange goods and services with another person does not represent consent to give up the right to privacy.

Bitcoin eliminates the 3rd party so that our transactions can be private. 

It doesn't matter when fiat currency transactions can be monitored by authorized parties as long as I don't use them in the right way.
Wanting to hide every transaction so that it cannot be tracked is something that cannot be avoided because fiat currencies are centralized.

I cannot use Bitcoin for transactions like fiat currency in everyday life because it is part of the acts that are prohibited by law.
Most to make my finances healthy, I invest in several types of investments including investing in Bitcoin.

True but we are left with no choices and we are too small to fight. Crypto might mean freedom to some but it would be stupid to believe we are not being monitored. Every money coming in and coming out are closely being tracked and most of the large transaction within the network too are being monitored. Shutting down of mixers, KYC are a few examples that proves we don't have option of not being tracked.
There might be some secure chains like monero but getting in and out your money from it could get you into problems.And for general people who have nothing big to hide  I guess it's a compromise we all make for the greater good of our society.

Do you have any proof that 95% of total printed US dollar is in digital format?

US dollar is one of the most used fiat all around the world and it's accepted every corner because of USD is the reserve currency. If I am not wrong everyone who hoards black money irrespective of their government prefer USD and Gold that makes your argument of every transaction using fiat is tracked by government as invalid.

If you think there's something to doubt about the way the fiat currency operates under the authority of government and other commercial centralized intuitions, then why not consider bitcoin for an alternative means of making payments and your only reliable currency, since one of the reason this was introduced was to fix all the challenges we have been through with the use of a centralized commercial institutions, try crypto and see if the difference is there between fiat and bitcoin or not.

If countries continue to allow their governments to devalue their currency then we are doomed to continue the cycle of inflation due to the creation of money by the elites.

When an entity creates more of a currency it reduces the value of that currency. If a government is given the power to create currency then they will do that until the countries currency is worthless.  This has happened time and time again.
To stop the cycle, sound money must have a limited supply. Bitcoin will only fix this if it is adopted as the primary currency for a nation.

In order for Bitcoin to work as it was intended it also needs to be peer-to-peer and individuals must self custody.  If we don't do this then financial institutions will become the power centers of a country.

By using Bitcoin peer-to-peer you free your self and your country from this financial misconduct and you give everyone back the financial sovereignty they deserve.

Even if government fully accepts cryptocurrency, bitcoin cannot replace fiat. We have El Salvador that made bitcoin a legal tender, and their reserve is in bitcoin. But if you go to El Salvador, citizens hardly use bitcoin but their local currency. Since bitcoin cannot be printed, and it is not from the government, it will be impossible for it to replace fiat.

Fiat has being there ever since, and that is why you see that fiat will always be the currency that all countries will always use, no matter what kind of currency that is created in the latter. Digital currency is a new technology, and can only serve as an alternative to fiat.

Fiat is a centralized currency.  It will always be traded under third party monitoring.  This is how it was made.  It will be under the control of a country's government.  You cannot call it wrong or think of correcting it because it is made that way.  Bitcoin, on the other hand, was created as a decentralized currency.  The owner can do the transaction alone and there will be no other third party presence.  Currency should be accepted and used as it was created.

I asked Bing AI about sound money and here's the answer:


Fiat money isn't sound money and it never will be. It doesn't matter if it's digital fiat or paper cash. Fiat money lose their value in the long term.
Bitcoin isn't sound money because of the price volatility. We need a financial asset with stable value/price.
Gold and silver coins are maybe the only good example of sound money.
The preservation of value is the biggest quality of sound money, privacy of transactions isn't mentioned anywhere as a quality, but I think that transactions with gold and silver can be really private(if you are transacting with a trusted trader).

Dollar isn't even stable at all, technically the value is like shitcoins since November 2017, gold also same, it's not stable too. The reason why people think Bitcoin isn't stable because they always compare Bitcoin to USD, gold, local currency etc etc. While actually 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

Bitcoin isn't even private, anyone can trace where your coins belongs to since Bitcoin using public blockchain.


https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=BTC&view=10Y


https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=BTC&view=10Y

     Of course, when fiat is understood, it is controlled by the government, and when it is placed in the bank, it is monitored by the company of the bank. That's all.
So in this day and age, it seems that no matter what we do to be anonymous, our government will still find out.

     That's why we are here in the crypto space, so that any transaction we do can remain anonymous when we make a profit in the field of cryptocurrency business.

When it comes to the digital age, computers has become so advanced and  programed to track every online data. Banks connect to the world and deliver each transaction by the internet and any other form of currency which exist has some connections to the internet as long as it has a central bank and has its currency traded on the exchange market as well as has a reserve.
Even P2p sometimes require escrow to function in accordance. It is traditional for other payment methods to be decided upon without any third party, and that's why gold remains the best alternative means for untracked and private transactions.

Exactly, and as a matter of fact, we need to always understand that both the centralized system of money and the decentralized monetary system serve different purposes and one cannot rule out the other because, at the end of the day, people would have reasons to why they should keep using one or the other.

The decentralized monetary system is that which you can use within your purview and you can have a high level of control over it. Whereas a decentralized system is being managed by banks and, by extension, the government. Government today can decide to change the value of the money or even the currency type to something else and you have no choice than to follow.

But, at the same time, the government might be doing some of those things to retain the integrity of the currency. you can't say that the fiat currencies are unsound because you have chosen to go with a decentralized system. Governments are looking at how they can better their local currencies and that is why they will always work hard on their economy so that their currencies can gain value in the sights of other currencies across the globe.

When you are using a decentralized system, it's like a global and individual monetary system but when you are using a centralized system, it's between you and the government. So, the government can have a control over how the money would be valued by you and across the world.

Exactly, bitcoin is the definition of freedom when it comes to financial because we know how bitcoin is secured and trusted no one could access to our transaction or know your identity in the crypto space, but as bitcoin technology is advanced and secured it can also be used for doing hidden transaction or transactions that is made because of someone doing a crime, that's is also why government are very hesistant in bitcoin because they can't track the identity of someone who is using bitcoin but if we will look to the brigther side, bitcoin really is something that is powerful and very useful for us, especially in terms of finance, you can surely earn in bitcoin as long as you know how to, and you can rest assured that your money will not have any tax or deduction so thats the greater in crypto currency, so bitcoin provides the most secured, safe and privacy.

Fiat is centralized and under the control of the government therefore the secrets of Fiat should never be protected. Fiat currencies are tracked by governments. Bitcoin is good if you want to go with good third party transactions. Here there is no control and the person will work independently and the best way to protect privacy.

Bank is centralized. all transactions will be recorded there, and the bank can monitor them. Of course, when we talk about privacy, even when we open a bank account, we are immediately monitored for some data so we can open a bank account, as well as several conditions depending on each bank. And that's mandatory. So, the bank has all that database.

However, we, as laypeople, cannot see or trace the transaction as we please. Only the owner of the account can, either with their own application or through assistance from the bank. For the bank, they can do it, but there are limits to what they have to do, and they cannot immediately trace the transactions carried out. And other parties too, even we as lay people will not be able to ask the bank to track certain transactions because of the bank's policies and obligations to protect the privacy and data of its customers. Unless it is used for certain cases, which already have permission from the competent authorities.

If what is meant is what the money was used for, indeed, not everything can be traced. especially if the customer has made a cash withdrawal, then what is recorded at the bank is the cash withdrawal activity. Because if we make a cash withdrawal, there is no requirement to tell us what the money is for. It's better if it's done at an ATM. Unless you directly withdraw large amounts of cash by going directly to the teller or bank, there will usually be little discussion regarding this activity. So, if we have made a cash withdrawal, that's it, we can no longer trace where the money went and what it was used for, because it's cash. Unless the payment is made online using mbanking or something else, it will definitely be tracked.

When you post, wait until someone replies to you before you do consecutive replies.

Based on your description of a sound money then fiat is a sound money and so as Bitcoin. Since it's not part of being private, it's like a plus if you're going to describe Bitcoin as a sound money.

If this it means for some, then no sound money for everyone. As fiat can be used for illegal things and the same goes for Bitcoin and anything that has monetary value.

Fiat is a tool in the hands of the authorities. With it we're under the government's claws, our transactions can be easily monitored and our account can be blocked or frozen and as such I wouldn't call it a perfect money. On the other hand, Bitcoin and privacy coins like monero, dash, zcash are decentralized, censorship resistant should be the perfect examples of sound money because of the freedom and privacy they offer.

I thought when people talk of sound money they mean - money that is clean not connected to any form of illegality.

Fiat money are legalized and printed by the government as a centralized currency you don't expect them not to monitor how people use it even if the people may not like how theymir translations are constantly monitored leaving them to no loophole of privacy.

For individuals that want to act smart the would prefer running a cash in hand transaction than using electronic cash transaction to cut of the monitoring. But I consider that to be too archaic at this era that we have bitcoin as an alternative digital currency which gives you that financial freedom and privacy that fiat denied us of.

Is Bitcoin sound money even though it is not private?

Monero doesn't have a limited supply so it can be inflated.  I wouldn't consider that sound money.

What is sound money? Because sound money is defined as money that is basically not volatile. It’s stable and does not get sudden increases or decreases in value.


Monero is a privacy coin. Bitcoin is already decentralized in nature but monero offers an extra layer of privacy if you must need it. Of course, it can nit replace fiat. Even bitcoin is still not yet fully adapted let alone monero. A coin can never replace fiat unless the government fully accepts cryptocurrencies.

I don't think the creator of Bitcoin was trying to define what sound money is. Satoshi was trying to solve the problem of third parties mediating and controlling transactions. Bitcoin bypassed that trust system which the banking system is built on and created a verification system.

There was no allusion to what sound money is or what it should be.

the term sound of money i thought was purity as they hear sound when they drop the gold coin to the floor.
if you don't want to be monitored i guess there are ways to do it or just use the anon coins for your transaction to go unnoticed.  you just have to deal with someone who also doesn't want to be monitored.

now that everything is public on blockchain, it may just be hard to do what you want to do. when they say cash is king, they must be telling the truth.

Sound money systems aim to maintain a stable value over time, avoiding drastic fluctuations or volatility that can disrupt economic activities.

Why stable? And stable comparably to what? What asset is stable comparably to the Zimbabwean dollar?

By definition, sound money should have the following properties:  durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

No one mentions private in this list except Bitcoin.

So should a sound money be private like Bitcoin is if you do peer-to-peer transactions?

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I think the creators of Bitcoin were trying to say that you can't have sound money if it is not Private. That is why they made it as private as they could make a public ledger.

I don't think centralized and private are equivalent.  The US dollar is a fiat currency that is centralized but I can use a physical dollar bill to complete a private transaction.  If I use a bank in the transaction then it is not private.  

I don't think privacy is somewhat correlated with sound money. The way I understand sound money is that it's money that meets the following criteria:

• Cannot have its supply increased or decreased arbitrarily.
• It is not credit.

Fiat currency, for example, if represented in cash is very private. But, it is prone to arbitrary money printing. It is also credit, because it requires trust to the prosperity of the state / government(s) that issues it. Gold is pretty much sound money one could say. Bitcoin is the soundest of all, because you're completely certain about the first condition (if you practice self-custody).

Fiat has been centralized since the beginning, so obviously, there is no privacy on it. And the mere fact that it is printed by the government, so not sure what your point on considering it sound. And if you defined "sound money", it's like being accessible to all, and if we compare it to let's say Bitcoin, which only a small percentage of people in the world know and used, then they didn't fall on the same wavelength as far as privacy goes.

A lot people say that Bitcoin is the most sound money ever created and I tend to agree with that. By definition, sound money should be durable, portable, divisibility, uniform, limited, recognizable, accepted and stable.

One of the additional features provided by Bitcoin is sudo privacy.  This is provided by peer-to-peer transactions and anonymized addresses.

As such does Bitcoin make the case that privacy should be included in the properties of sound money or is privacy not required for sound money?

I would argue that without the option for private transactions money is not sound. When you require approval to access your value then the money is not sound. 

What are you really implying? Sound money, as in, how?

Fiat money was designed to be centralized and handled with the help of financial institutions such as banks, which usually collected their instructions from higher authorities like the government. Because of how they chose to run the (our)  monetary system, you cannot say that such money is un-sound.


Bitcoin was designed as a decentralized cryptocurrency, and the father of Bitcoin is an anonymous person whom no one happens to know. The idea for Bitcoin's development was for individuals to be in charge of their own money without third-party involvement, and as such, we cannot say that Bitcoin is a sound money because it is decentralized, while Fiat money is not a sound money because it's centralized.

Those two systems are not designed to function the same way; as a matter of fact, the government doesn't like decentralization; they want something that is under their control. You cannot change the system, @OP, and calling it unsound doesn't change anything.

By the way, I think this topic should be moved to the economics board.

Fiat are centralized and we all know that. But there are coins that are decentralized and that you can use privately. Example is bitcoin if you learn about it. Another example is monero. You can just see them as alternatives but which can not fully replace fiat. We are in the world that the governments want to know our online activities, especially pertaining to money. It is not avoidable but can be reduced. I do not care if the government see the part of me that I want them to see, but having other part which is private.

Over 95% of the US dollar is digital and all of the digital dollars are in the custody of a Bank.  When you make a purchase or transfer your US dollars your transaction is tracked and approved by the bank and by extension, the US Government.

Can you consider a transaction that is monitored and approved sound?

I think for a money to be sound you must be able to transact privately with no third party in the transactions.

What do you think?