Topic: Don't get BFL'd by NFC Ring (Read 2453 times)

Hey guys, it's worth posting for posterity the majority of the Kickstarter orders are fulfilled and the project has done bi-weekly updates keeping all backers up to speed

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Thanks for writing this up - I was going to order an NFC Ring but after reading this, I won't.

That's why they call it "scamstarter".

Honestly, I am amazed people send money to that site for anything other than artistic works (which are basically a donation anyways).  It's so scammy that they allow people to promise physical, deliverable products.



I think the silly "social media" craze is what has enabled scamstarter.  The clever scammers simply buy a bunch of facebook likes, and people believe it.

Wtf.

Yes having reviewed your Kickstarter and the pastebin correspondance, I'm an "anyone" who is interested in understanding further why the majority of tenthirtyone's post is incorrect.  I suspect we will then see why you don't wish to nit-pick on this.

I think pissed off customers and investors happens in business.  The measure is how you respond to them.

I don't see that stipulated on your kickstarter terms.

That's great, but he just wanted a straight answer didn't he, even just a best guess or "no promises" estimate would have likely put his mind at rest.
Is that so difficult?

Indeed, but you also have a responsibility to do accurate shipping forecasts when setting up one.
You're now 5 months late and seem to think you have nothing to apologise for, just attack someone, using some real stretching reasons,  who dare take issue with this.

That's one way of looking at it.  A slightly more accurate way to look at it might be that you couldn't handle being challenged so took your bat and ball home.

Late delivery, or cancelling an order due to some challenging questions are entirely characteristics of BFL, I'm afraid.

although the OP done a investment and not a pre order, i think its worth mentioning a few tips for pre-order people:

pre-orders should only be done when a working final working design is produced and the only last process is large scale production. So if you have been told pre-orders are over a month, or that there are some design flaws, then this shows they have not got a final working model produced and as such, stay far far away.

and to the OP, i know NFC is not a BFL product, but i do like how you have used BFL as a verb. i hope "BFL'd" gets added to a dictionary one day with a similar definition of the words, scammer, liar, cheat.

and again to everyone else, with bitcoin being non reversible, it is for us to all ensure we all know who we buy from, research their credibility and also to understand the risks.

when you buy a product ask yourself, if this business offered the same circumstances and terms of the pre-order. but for a cash-in-the-mail payment of bank notes to a undisclosed PO BOX, would you do it. if you don't know enough to be able to slap them across the face with a wet fish, or take them to court if something bad happens. dont deal with them.

bitcoin should remain self regulated, and that means doing 'know your customer' yourself. as that is how money is suppose to be, to maintain and manage your own money. To not rely on corporate banks to own your funds with the pretext that restricting you from your own money is part of their security protection.

Just to make sure ... we are talking about $30 here, right?

hey now i've seen a BUtter Fly labs scanner active on You Tube
u can't tell me they're not real

Hey I'm the founder of the NFC Ring project.  

Search on social media and you will see some (not all) rings have shipped, lots of people have received them.  

Various parts (actually most) of what tenthirtyone has posted is factually incorrect, I'm not going to nit-pick on this.  Should anyone wish for me to point out which parts are incorrect I can but I feel it doesn't add anything positive to the conversation.

We told tenthirtyone when his ring would ship and asked him to follow our updates.  He stated he had no interest in following our updates and we felt he didn't want to contribute anything positive to the conversation so we decided to cancel tenthirtyone's pre-order and fully refunded him.  The circumstances here were exceptional, this is the first refund we have issued.

1) We wont have our staff talked to as if they aren't humans with feelings.
2) We want our community to have a positive or constructively critical approach to the NFC Ring project/experience.
3) We want our community to at least attempt to read the documentation provided, we also provide video updates every other week.
4) Kickstarter is not a store.

What happened here is that tenthirtyone wasn't(in our opinion) fit to be a backer of this project and his attitude wasn't apt for our community so we decided to part ways.  Communities sometimes require a certain level of moderation (as I'm sure the mods on this forum will understand), in this instance we decided to take action that was negative for tenthirtyone, this is the only time we have taken this action and this makes tenthirtyone an exceptional case.

Again to stress tenthirtyone got a full refund, we have tried to encourage him to take a different approach when conversing with Kickstarter project teams in the future.

In no ways has he been BFL'd, he got a full refund and we politely parted ways.

Are you post hunting? Have you even read the thread? Its not about BFL at all.

That being said, I think it's pretty sad to see so many companies posting release dates AND TAKING PREORDER MANY FOR THOSE DATES and then not ship in time. But not only that, if they still haven't shipped your item several months later, then they are completely untrustworthy.
Being Director of a business selling Bitcoin hardware I know it can be hard to have things ready in time it you have a schedule. however, if you do not definitely know you are going to be able to release on a specific date, then don't set a date at all. We have never taken pre-order for hardware that doesn't exist and if we ever do it (be it for whatever reason), then we won't post a definite release date.

If you, as a company, just post your schedule and keep the backers updated, tell them about your progress, then thats way better than silently developing something that should have been released long ago....

We already know that ButterFlyLabs is scammer. Stay away from them...

Those of us who were around towards the end of last summer may remember a fun Kickstarter called the "NFC Ring." In short, it was wearable technology. It featured a writable NFC card that could hold a Bitcoin public key.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mclear/nfc-ring

I was incredibly excited by this product. So much so I decided to be an Erli Bird backer. According to the Kickstarter delivery was promised in September of 2013. And as you can see they were wildly successful. It is a nifty product and a fair price.

Unfortunately that's where it ends. To date no rings have shipped despite being 6 months past the original delivery date. I had reached out multiple times in the past checking in on updates and shipping questions (I had moved, name change, etc) but never received a response. Weekly/Monthly updates always said the same thing: "Something is wrong, delays expected." but there was never a solid answer or date set, just more reasons why shipping wasn't occurring.

Today I emailed John McLear the entrepreneur running the Kickstarter. I asked when the Erli Birds should expect to see their rings since it was now half a year late. I was told to be more understanding and appreciative of his hard work and to go back and read the 50,000+ words of updates that are mish mashed with ring features that don't exist yet. Spoiler: All of them say the same thing: "Delays expected." I followed up explaining that I didn't share the passion for reading the NFC Ring novel and instead John just canceled my preorder.

I was asked by a few sources to follow up on my experiences with this company. So this is my summary. Try to avoid them, maybe in a year or two they will be together enough that you can pick up a ring but it's definitely not happening right now. Customer service is definitely the pits. Luckily, they had the rings manufactured in China so we will likely see cheaper knock-offs available soon. Perhaps wait for those instead.

If you are interested here is a pastebin with my name removed:

http://pastebin.com/fgDD2wfz
http://pastebin.com/sEEgXxVd[url] - with updates

tldr: Apparently Inaba runs NFC Ring & BFL and cancels preorders when you ask questions about 6+ month shipping delays.