Double Trouble with a Shuffle (early or late, doesn't matter)

tito13kfm

newbie

Activity: 42

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Quote from: vborets on June 22, 2011, 01:23:40 PM

It is not clear how much times you randomized :-)

Best case scenario for him would have him ending the round before doubling up the big bets. That way he can pocket the difference. Random is random. If I tell you to roll a die once or 40 times, it doesn't matter. The number you return from any individual instance is still random.

vborets

full member

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Merit: 100

It is not clear how much times you randomized :-)

Carnth

hero member

Activity: 634

Merit: 500

Quote from: lemonginger on June 22, 2011, 12:50:59 PM

one of the bigger betters got doubled (barely!)

That was me! And it was a close one.
This was the most fun I had playing a double game. Especially watching the spreadsheet update with the pot dwindling after every payout.
The fact that everyone has a shot at winning (instead of people who get in first) is great.

Auspician

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 103

Payment for winnings has been promptly received and confirmed. Thanks OP for a fun game, I'll definitely play again!

tito13kfm

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

1BSqNqKTBfXi1STAXPBDoAhQEncpYjGvZf

Whoo hoo! That's me! Payment received!

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

The spreadsheet has been updated. Winners will be paid out shortly. (Winners please confirm here if you want so people know it's honest.) All in all a good shuffle. Host made very little (.1 btc), one of the bigger betters got doubled (barely!) etc. But a good example of why refunding makes little difference in some games (the refund would have been infinitesimal)

Here is link to random.org screenshot:

http://cl.ly/2w1h0r3f1A3h0Z1T433C

Auspician

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Merit: 103

Quote from: lemonginger on June 22, 2011, 10:20:38 AM

Sure, but as with any doubling game, it is likely that there may be many people whose bets can't be doubled and not a lot of the pot to go around. The refund works in a very tiny game, but in a large game where the unpaid base of the pyramid can be ten-twenty bets, you generally get very little back. As mentioned, I have had numerous games where I have had 4 and 5 BTC bets refund a few bitcents

Just to be clear, I don't mean divide half the remaining pot between *everyone* whose bet didn't get doubled. I simply mean give half of the pot to the *individual* who was next on the list to have their bet doubled when there wasn't enough in the pot to make this happen.

Person A: Doubled
Person B: Doubled
Person C: Doubled
Person D: Doubled
Person E: Consolation Prize
Person F: Loses
Person G: Loses
Person H: Loses
Person I: Loses

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

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firstbits: 121vnq

This game is now closed. Shuffle and payouts to occur shortly. Then new game will begin!

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

half an hour to go, but it doesn't matter what order you have entered. All bets treated equally, all shuffled and re-ordered!

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Sure, but as with any doubling game, it is likely that there may be many people whose bets can't be doubled and not a lot of the pot to go around. The refund works in a very tiny game, but in a large game where the unpaid base of the pyramid can be ten-twenty bets, you generally get very little back. As mentioned, I have had numerous games where I have had 4 and 5 BTC bets refund a few bitcents

Auspician

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Activity: 126

Merit: 103

OP, I'd personally suggest the following if you want to encourage higher bets:

Usually the game stops once no more doubling is possible. Instead, perhaps the person whose bid cannot be doubled gets half the pot as a consolation prize, and the host takes the other half?

We gotta pay you for your time and the host getting 10% of the remaining pot seems a bit trivial when you consider the time and effort you're putting in.

Randall Flagg

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

I'll wait for next round to see how this one will end

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

A few hours left until the shuffle.....

Your bet could still wind up at the front of the line.

Can you push the total pot over 10 BTC?

lemonginger

full member

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Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

yes open until 17:00 GMT tomorrow (or 10 AM US West Coast Time)

Kax0

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Wait, this round is still open right? i just sent some...

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

not sure how this is any different than the vast majority of double trouble games where big bets get orphaned quite a bit (I know, I've lost quite a few more than I've doubled) and no one offers refunds, but sure, next round I will do a weighted return. Just don't think it promises risk free returns. I've had games where I have had multiple 2-4 BTC bets orphaned and received bitcents back when there is a line of 20 some people that haven't been paid and only 1btc left in the pot. The nature of any pyramid....

But if people want some money back, they can have some money back!

Next round will be no fees, 90% of final pot goes back to people with orphaned bets, weighted by the amount they put in. 10% of final pot goes to house.

FreeMoney

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1016

Strength in numbers

Okay, I'm not going to play this one since there is an unknown and potentially large fee. The strategy seems interesting enough that I would do it with a fixed % fee and partial payment for the last winner. Right now a large bet is just bleeding value since it's all or nothing on whether there is enough to double it. In the extreme if someone bets more than the whole pot they have 0% chance where someone who bets tiny has about a 50% chance. Discouraging big bets makes the whole thing less fun.

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

We're at the halfway mark. The point where Double Trouble games go to to die. But you still have just as much chance to be the first doubler as you did 12 hours ago!

No spreadsheet updates will take place overnight.

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

lots of people getting their feet wet with a few pennies. Need some players willing to throw down some change.

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Quote from: FreeMoney on June 21, 2011, 07:14:15 PM

6 3 1

9 1 2

In both of those cases I would just return everyone's money since no one got doubled and is no fun, not trying to make money

Quote

1 1 1 1

first person gets 2 btc
second person gets 2 btc
no one else gets anything

Quote

1 1 1 1 1

first person gets 2 btc
second person gets 2 btc
house gets 1 btc

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

n/t

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Quote from: Auspician on June 21, 2011, 07:42:32 PM

(Note to OP: For future rounds, I'd suggest a minimum bid of around .5BTC, and a maximum bid of around 5BTC. Otherwise the likelihood of the higher bids ever being doubled is low enough to discourage them, both reducing your profits and the fun of the game.)

I'm happy if people want to play with tiny bets. But since no one has bet more than 2 BTC so far, I don't have any problems capping bets to minimize a scenario where people get scared off or no one gets paid. Maximum Bet is 4 BTC. If you want to bet more, you'll have to do it in multiple transactions.

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Quote from: FreeMoney on June 21, 2011, 07:14:15 PM

Tell me if this is right.

We all send money and then you put the amounts in random order. If there is double your bet left after your place in line you get your amount doubled.

Aren't you going to be keeping a big chunk almost every time? You say "can't" pay out, does that mean that if there is not a full doubling left you get it all?

Yes, but there usually is very little to go around at the end of these games. Other than the game running with refund, thought this was standard. (plus a fee tacked on)

I see your point that if a very large bet ended up first, that the large bet plus all the money after it would go to the host, but I think this is unlikely.

I could run the next one with a refund if desired, it's just usually pretty useless as people end up getting refunded like .005 btc on 2 btc bets etc based on the results of the double trouble with refunds game so far.

tito13kfm

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

logo suggestion

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/19351-1/TRUFFLE+SHUFFLE.gif

Auspician

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 103

Since the 'shuffle' was originally my idea, perhaps I can offer some clarification on the rules.

Everyone puts in bids for whatever amount they want. At the conclusion of the 24 hour window, all the payment addresses are shuffled and put in a random order. The pot at this point contains all bids that were made.

Then, starting with the first bid in the randomized list, the funds in the pot are used to double this bid. Once that bid is satisfied, the pot moves onto the next bid in the randomized list, doubling it as well. This process continues until a bid cannot be doubled by the remaining funds in the Pot. At that point the game is over, and any funds remaining in the pot go to the host in lieu of fees on winnings.

Does that clarification help?

(Note to OP: For future rounds, I'd suggest a minimum bid of around .5BTC, and a maximum bid of around 5BTC. Otherwise the likelihood of the higher bids ever being doubled is low enough to discourage them, both reducing your profits and the fun of the game.)

FreeMoney

legendary

Activity: 1246

Merit: 1016

Strength in numbers

Tell me if this is right.

We all send money and then you put the amounts in random order. If there is double your bet left after your place in line you get your amount doubled.

Aren't you going to be keeping a big chunk almost every time? You say "can't" pay out, does that mean that if there is not a full doubling left you get it all?

Tell what happens with these to make it clear.

6 3 1

9 1 2

1 1 1 1

1 1 1 1 1

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Just a reminder that the spreadsheet will be updated infrequently overnight. If you are in the block explorer, you are in the game! Spreadsheet updated as able. PM if any questions.

Auspician

full member

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Merit: 103

Sure, that makes sense to me. Just entered the game with ten centi-bits (0.1BTC).

lemonginger

full member

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firstbits: 121vnq

5 players in

mmavipc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

Quote from: Auspician on June 21, 2011, 02:32:33 PM

Glad you decided to take the idea, it should be interesting! I'm going to wait a round or two and see how it goes and see what information gets posted to assure me of the security of the game. Best of luck with the new game!

Just bet .001 like I did.

Auspician

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 103

Glad you decided to take the idea, it should be interesting! I'm going to wait a round or two and see how it goes and see what information gets posted to assure me of the security of the game. Best of luck with the new game!

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

first player confirmed!

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

I will update spreadsheet throughout the day, but because order does not matter, it may not happen instantly. If you want real time info, best to check out block explorer.

Watch block explorer here:
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1DwBJKwvutiDchtuDZnUwaBbYanfazhdFY

Watch the spreadsheet here:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmpY6zlpxDzdG5XbEoyQlhoMXJVRFlrSkRyUWpYQVE&hl=en_US&authkey=COvsgaYB

lemonginger

full member

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Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Okay, this will be open for 24 hours before randomization and payouts occur.

No minimum/maximum bet.

Randomization will occur after the close of the game using random.org. A screen capture will be provided to verify the randomization.

I will not play in this game.

Send to:
1DwBJKwvutiDchtuDZnUwaBbYanfazhdFY

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

Quote from: vborets on June 21, 2011, 09:45:41 AM

better use http://www.random.org/lists/ !

with recording on camera all process

Sure that makes sense. I will put all of the sending addresses in there and take a little screen capture of the randomization. For the record, I am not going to play in my own game, so I have nothing to gain from randomization going one way or another.

vborets

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better use http://www.random.org/lists/ !

with recording on camera all process

Kax0

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

I'm in for sure, whenever its ready.

mmavipc

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

What will be the minimum bet?

lemonginger

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

firstbits: 121vnq

The usual Double Trouble -- with a twist!

Unlike usual Double Trouble games, where the early winners take all and everyone else is left hanging, in this one every has a chance to double up.

The Double Trouble game will be open for 24 hours. After bets are closed, the order of all bets will be shuffled before payouts begin. Watch that first bet drop mercilessly to the end of the line! Get excited when your 4BTC bet shows up at the front of the list! No fees! House keeps whatever is left in the pot that can't be paid out.

What's your strategy? Throw in a big bet and hope it lands near the top? Throw in a bunch of bets knowing some of them might end up near the bottom?

Thanks to Auspician who offered the idea as inspiration.

We will use the random.org list randomizer with a screencap of the randomization process.
http://www.random.org/lists/

Open from 21 Jun 17:00 GMT until 22 Jun 17:00 GMT

Here is the sending address (do not use an ewallet):
1DwBJKwvutiDchtuDZnUwaBbYanfazhdFY

Maximum bet: 4 btc

Watch block explorer here:
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1DwBJKwvutiDchtuDZnUwaBbYanfazhdFY

Watch the spreadsheet here:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmpY6zlpxDzdG5XbEoyQlhoMXJVRFlrSkRyUWpYQVE&hl=en_US&authkey=COvsgaYB

Topic: Double Trouble with a Shuffle (early or late, doesn't matter) (Read 3159 times)