Topic: Dugin's daughter killed. Did she really say this? (Read 624 times)

Well then let's kill everyone who supports the war on Ukraine. Or at least if we saw one of them being killed, we would not regret it on the pretext that he deserved what happened to him.

Nobody can convince me that it is permissible to kill a person because of his ideas. And even if his actions condemn him, the most I can demand is that he be subjected to a fair trial, the most severe of which is eternal imprisonment and not the death in any form.
When you are in direct confrontation with a soldier on the battlefield or with any armed person who wants to kill you, you have the right to legitimate defense for yourself. But to justify a person being killed solely on the basis of your own judgment is very dangerous.

It's time for the ad hitlerum! 
Hitler also was a civilian!

Let's talk it again: Anyone who promotes russian soldiers to continue this war is the same as russian soldier. Russian soldier is legitimate target for ukrainians. So, every government worker or government propagandist get paid from Kremlin is also legitimate target. PERIOD.

All other takes it's just a juggling to whitewash russian nazis. I understand that this is easy for you to be a "gentleman in a white coat" and to bitching about morale and all other shit. But ukrainians who is get bombed in Kharkiv or Mykolaiv tells you: "First, take a big step back and literally F*** YOUR OWN FACE!!! (the best scene )

True from a practical perspective, a very "low value target" in military and intelligence terms. However that assumes that any target in Moscow would be similarly protected which may not be the case. The problem with certain ideas and certain way of expressing them is that they are not neutral or are intended to put forward a posture on a topic, they are as harmful as a weapon. I am in favour of free expression, but calling for hate and kill goes beyond the acceptability line.

Killing Dugina is not a heroic act by any standards, and I don't think it will cause any fear in the Kremlin. Killing civilians, regardless of their point of view, is evidence of the weak position and capabilities of the killer. And as you mentioned, if any intelligence service was really capable of carrying out assassinations inside Russia, why would it target civilians?
All facts indicate that Father Dugina is the target, and that the operation did not target Dugina directly. In both cases, her father is also a civilian.

I think the position of those who think "good riddance" is quite clear. Dugina and other propagandists are considered combatants in this war and thus legitimate military targets. Not really difficult to understand.

FWIW I don't agree with that, and I think even the supporters of such actions should see that this is counterproductive and thus very unlikely that this was a work of Ukrainian intelligence / secret service / whatever. If they had the capacity to off someone in Moscow, they should and probably would pick a high ranking MOD/GRU/FSB officer or someone like that. Killing civilians, despicable as they may be, is a waste of resources and bad publicity. More likely that this Dugina thing is a result of some internal GRU shit.

Not to worry. She has been stopped. You can hold her responsible if you like, I don't give a shit about this Nazi bitch.

The civilized world must concentrate on how to effectively demilitarize Russia and eliminate all people who supported this Nazi regime.

Please notice that the Russian media narrative has changed in the last few days, now they
openly call for the genocide of the Ukrainian people.

The goal of this 'special operation' has changed (again) from denazification/demilitarization to de-Ukranization.

Stop this genocide any way you can. Donate to the Ukrainian army, humanitarian aid, etc.

Be human.

Honestly, I am still unable to comprehend the position of many of the participants in this discussion regarding whether they accept the death of a person in this way only because they disagree with him or they do not want to take a clear position.
My position is absolutely clear, that these people should be held accountable after they are stopped from promoting racist and hostile ideas within humanitarian frameworks. We do not bless their bombing, even if they are enemies of life itself.
Some will say the girl goes to hell for her ideas without regard to the whole system who has produced her in the form of a propaganda trumpet.

IMO, if (when) Putin's regime will fall, most of propagandists simply will change their skin and start supporting new Russia. Actually, some of them already done it once. Like Vladimir Solovyov, one of the most aggresive propagandists, over 20 years ago worked in oppositional TV channel, was against Putin and just 9 years ago said that Crimea belongs to Ukraine.
Or Dmitry Kiselyov, in 2004 he was news editor of Ukrainian (!!!) TV channel ICTV and in this photo there is his phrase that Ukraine is European country:
Such things shows that propagandists don't believe in Putin's ideology, they're only loyal to money.

I'd rather see her die of old age, abandoned by supporters and forgotten. Maybe die knowing that there was a revolution and there's no Putin's Russia anymore and the newly formed country is helping to rebuild Ukraine. Being proven wrong and ridiculed for hate speech would be a great outcome for Putin's trolls. I'm sure that if Dugin gets killed he'll be treated like a martyr and a national hero by the regime.

Here it is - https://t.me/ressentiment_channel/29496
But this is live stream, you need to know russian for understand what she saying.


In your opinion better death for her would be a death by giant dildo, or what? Comb in the car is a classic! 


No, you're wrong.

On one hand I'm against people being killed, especially this way and I don't think that woman deserved to die this way. On the other hand they both were spreading so much hate that maybe it's for the better that there's one less rabid dog running around. If I had the power of Thanos from the Marvel Universe, I'd probably snap my fingers and remove Putin, Lavrov, Peskov and Medvedev. The world would be better without them.

Trying to check the tweet but it appears to be deleted.

I agreed and I never trust that man because when he has an intention in something he can do extra just to achieve it.

War against cryptocurrency privacy transaction users especially now almost all reputable crypto-based casinos are enforcing KYC and the US Feds sanction privacy provider platform.

You are completely oblivious to what is happening. It is an all-out WAR. What trials are you talking about?

These people need to be stopped, NOW.

Demanding their trial does not mean that we demand that they be killed. There is a vast difference between the two requirements.
For myself, I do not believe that there is any motive for killing except in cases of legitimate self-defense, that is, when you are compelled to do so and not for the purposes of revenge.

I do not think that the war on Ukraine would have been canceled or postponed if this family did not exist at all. There are clear reasons for the war.

I do not want to appear as the devil's advocate in this situation, and I am well aware that what that lady did is spreading racist ideas and that she deserves to be tried, but this does not justify calling for her killing or finding that killing her is legitimate.

She and her family are responsible for the war crimes the Russian army is committing in Ukraine right now.

She and her extended family, to the third generation, should have been eliminated a long time ago.

All Russian propagandists are war criminals. They and their families will be brought to justice, one way or another.

Man, you should come here, live for fee month in Mykolaiv or Kharkiv, under heavy bombardments, and then to write all of this again.

All those who promote and justify this war - should be exterminated (like nazis long time ago), one way or another. And this will be moral and fair.

There is no justification for a death sentence, even if the accused were Hitler himself or Stalin (both are butchers). This does not eliminate the responsibility for the victim if she committed a crime of any kind, but believe me, it is very dangerous to justify the killing with arguments that we think are self-evident and undisputed.
The one who carried out the killing is not impeccable from mistakes to condemn others to burning. And if the victim was promoting racist ideas against a particular race or nationalism, it would be more correct to hold the system that gave her the green light to do so.

Eichmann was captured in 1960 and executed 2 years later. That wasn't a terrorist attack. Why? Because he was put to trial? That was just for show. When Israelis were hunting him they knew they'd kill him one way or the other and were ready for anything. Many more Russian murderers are going to end up killed or sentenced to life in prison, like that soldier who pleaded guilty to killing some civillians.
Propagandists are often targeted during wars, but Russia is claiming that it's not at war so to them that's a terrorist attack. When they shot down Malaysian jet it was a mistake, but when Dugin's car was blown up it's terrorism.

Where the double standarts? As i previously said - any propagandist is legitimate target. You can complain about that, but this will not change reality.

Killing of propagandist bitch is not worse than killing a russian soldiers. Why you don't complain ukrainians killing 20 years old "children" with guns? Or why do you think that fault of a guy from poor family who went to army for 200 thousands of rubles is worse than a bloodthirsty bitch from a wealthy family who called ukrainians as "nonhumans" and supported a war? I can't understand that logic.

I would even call that fault of Dugina is much worse and darker than any russian soldier (even those who looting and killing civs). So her extermintation is really good thing, we shouldn't be sad about that. We should create a lot of funny memes, like this




The main problem is that HAMAS targeting not only israel soldiers and government workers, but also a lot of paceful civilians. For example, one of my friends was in recent terract in Jerusalem, luckily he is alive. But he was no a soldier and he didn't work on Israel govenrment. That's a difference.

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@pooya87 oh, look at this! Another "terrorist attack" on peaceful Publisher of Der Sturmer - Julius Streicher ! He didn't kill anyone, he just used his right for the free speech! What kind of a monsters had done that?

I refuse to have double standards.

You just did:

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".

Two things:

1. Do not call this "terrorist attack". Terrorism is action mostly against civilians of some country, like attack 9/11 or some terrorists attacks on Israel, where suicide bomber killing a lot of civ jews.
Attack on propagandist, who is legitimate target in any war can't be described as "terrorism". Or we can go futher and call "terrorist" those who attack russian soldiers on occupied territories.

2. I can agree with you about your main statement only because ONE THING: Dugina was a moscov golden kid . In russian society, it's ok to lost a lot of some rural idiots who is conscripted/mobilized to the army, or some minority nations, like buryats. But you can't, IN ANY WAY to harm moscov citizen, especially golden kids. Even so-called "russian opposition" and "liberals" admits that: they can call russian soldiers (who are mostly from poor regions) as non-humans, toilet-less horde (Chichvarkin) but they will with 100 % be sad about death of propagandist whore from Moscov. Again, because they're also such "golden kids", just had choosen another ideological side (liberalism and so on).

So yeah, moscov society is very angry because of that fact, that one of demi-gods was obliterated by "selyuki" (ukrainians mostly considered as rural nation in the eyes of russians) . And because in russia Moscov rule everything, it can be a reason to escalation.

You are understandably too emotional so you are missing the bigger picture. It is all about escalation regardless of who the target of the terrorist attack was. In a high tension situation, such acts have a high chance of leading to tit-for-tat or grow to a much bigger conflict.

Almost everywhere both on domestic and global scale.

In my view, Russian supremacism is no different from Nazism. Believing in  a Nazi or a Russian Supremacist doctrine is not a crime in itself, but it has been historically proven that most nationalisms end up promoting the killing of others and the right of a certain nationality to enslave and destroy in the name of said supremacy.

This lady and his dad were educated people, they knew that these ideas end up causing deaths and justify inhumanity by classing humans as "animals", "nazis", "sub-humans". That is calling for extermination. From this psychological bombing to the real bombing only takes an oversized army that has too much of a hold on Putin.

As the relevance for the war... probably nil.

I saw compilation of videos with various here statements and she said lot of shit, like typical Russian propagandist. I don't remember that she said directly said that Ukrainians should be killed and destroyed, but here rhetoric indirectly tells it. Like in that video posted by @suchmoon.
But seems that she wasn't target, they wanted to kill her father. Though, daughter isn't much better than her father. Who did, it's interesting question. Maybe it was Ukrainian partizans who acted in similar way like Mossad. Maybe it's Russian NRA. Or maybe it was inside job.
But there is some strange things like smile of Dugin during funreal. In reports it was said that Dugina body got burned during explosion. But on funreal, her casket is open what is strange thing considering explosion:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexKokcharov/status/1562032251306663937

Completely disagree. She bares responsibility like all other propagandists. They all washing brains of Russian people for years, setting them against Ukrainians. They are reason why majority of Russians support this war. Maybe destroying them in such way isn't right thing, but it's nonsense to say that they're not responsible.

WTF with you, man? In WW1, austro-hungarian empire's HEIR Franz Ferdinand was killed.

You compare one of the most important political figures in old Europe with a some random propagandist whore. Do not cool man.


Where it polarized?

World War I began with an assassination...

High tensions ✔
Ongoing war ✔
Ongoing food war ✔
EU drought ✔
Public unrest/protests ✔
High inflation ✔
High energy prices ✔
Polarized world ✔
New World Order ✔
Terrorist attack/assassination ✔
Next?

The main problem that "resist russian forces" is not only armed resist, but even communicating on ukrainian language can be considered as this. So, it can be altered as "ukrainian who speaks ukrainian language are nazis, and nazis must die"


Why so serious? Nazi bitch is dead and we created a lot of funny memes about it.





On important clarification: Moscov propagandist is far worse even than russian soldiers who directly shoot and kill ukrainians. Because he justify those who are already on frontline and motivate new cannon fodder to join.

But maybe what even more funny, is that Dugin doesn't look like very upset about all of this

Probably the opposite is true then LOL

Russian government and media will push whichever story makes them look less bad and/or make Ukrainians look worse, particularly to their own (Russian) citizens. No relation to the truth is needed here.

So let's say if this was work of Russian resistance, or a non-political crime - maybe Dugina was a drug dealer or something - this might make it look like there is resistance, or there is a serious organized crime issue - bad image for the government. The official story (allowing foreign agents to murder a high-profile person) is not good image either but can be spun into more hate against Ukraine so here it goes.

Note how quickly this case was "resolved" when normally it would take weeks or months or never (like many journalists killed in Russia). Gotta feed the propaganda while it's hot.

Oh yes, they can dress it as a murder of a "journalist", bonus here too.

This is a crazy story and it's hard to know what exactly to believe.  War is not good for anyone.  This conflict has gone on for far too long.  I hope it ends soon for the sake of both sides.  Whatever the resolution is, it has to be better than seeing stories like this in the news.

Latest news:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-accuses-ukrainian-secret-services-of-preparing-and-committing-murder-of-dugins-daughter/ar-AA10VWTv

Russia's Federal Security Service has accused Ukraine's secret services of preparing and committing the murder of Alexander Dugin's daughter through a Ukrainian citizen, Natalia Vovk Pavlova, who arrived in Russia last July 23 together with her twelve-year-old daughter, Sofia Shaban Mikhailovna.

And that doesn't mean she deserves to die. I'm taken back by how casually the loss of life is accepted because Russia might be the initial aggressors. The only ones worthy of death are the initial aggressors of the deadly force encounter. Mere words without intent should not be the basis for murder. I'm not sure how much the Putin thought leader bares responsibility unless they are directly involved in war efforts. The daughter bares zero responsibility. Guilt by association should not be the standard for the death penalty, even if she's a fascist.

It seems the Russians are blaming Ukraine for Dubryia Dugina's death now. Probably they think this is a retaliation for the seizure of gas plant in Ukraine by the Russians.
 
 It has been alleged that the suspect is a woman who was contracted to kill the 29 yr old journalist by renting an apartment close to her and had her monitored before her death.
In my opinion, this is quite unfortunate as it may spark more reactions from Putin as the deceased seems to be the daughter of one of his valued think tanks.
 

No one did so many good things to the West World, especially to EU and USA as Putin! He unified EU countries (except his puppet Viktor Orbán/Hungary), he stopped all that covid-mess news - now everyone stays against Russia, finally. Let's just wait for introducing visas, I hope it will come very soon.

And now - attack from inside. It shows they must start watching their back, because now there is internal force which is able to show it's power.

If we add the fact that now Ukraine is able to do long distance attacks/bombings on Russian infrastructure close to border... changes are coming. Maybe it is the last decade of Union and all the small republics will become independent, finally.

Or an exaggeration, based on what suchmoon says. Surely justifying the killing of Ukrainians had been done in a more indirect way. Both she and her father.


Yes, according to latest info:

Darya Dugina was killed by partisans from National Republican Army – former Russian parliamentarian

"Ilya Ponomarev, a former member of the State Duma of the Russian Federation (the Russian parliament), said that the so-called National Republican Army (NRA) has claimed responsibility for the murder of Darya Dugina, the daughter of "Putin’s ideologue" Aleksandr Dugin."

...

"Quote from the NRA "manifesto": "We are Russian activists, military personnel and politicians, currently also partisans and fighters of the National Republican Army, and we are outlawing the warmongers, thieves and oppressors of the peoples of Russia!

We declare President Putin to be a usurper of power and a war criminal who has violated the Constitution, unleashed a fratricidal war between Slavic peoples, and sent Russian soldiers to a certain and senseless death.

[…] We will overthrow and destroy Putin! […] We declare all Russian government officials and regional administration officials to be accomplices to the usurper. We will kill every one of them who fails to resign."

Here's a video that I found, not sure if that's where that info originated, but what she says is roughly this: "we (Russia) need to establish tribunals in [occupied territories] to deal with those non-humans", referring apparently to Ukrainians/nazis/whathaveyou and she kinda implies that the outcome of such tribunals is predefined but doesn't directly say "kill them".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEDttOuGD1U

It has to be said though that Russian media and propagandists rarely state directly that Ukrainians must be killed but the implication is very strong and consists typically of two parts: Ukrainians who resist Russian forces are nazis, and nazis must die.

Russian NRA claimed the responsibility.

Already Denis Pushilin, the "head" of the self-declared pro-Russian "Donetsk People's Republic", has already laid the blame on Ukraine. The truth is that it is difficult to separate the relationship between Russia and Ukraine. A report stated that 17.3% of the population of Ukraine are of Russian descent and about 11 million Russians people have relatives in Ukraine. It would be very difficult to ascertain where the killings was planned and carried out. Maybe some Russians have become tired of the war and wants to instill fear on the ruling class to make them stop the war. The result of this war might be guerrilla warfare in Russian soil. Kremlin have promised to carryout proper investigation and that culprit would be dealt with. Russia never forgives, there would be reprisal attacks. If it is the US, Ukraine would pay the price and if Ukraine is the culprit, they would also bear the consequences.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62621509.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/20/russia-ukraine-relatives-conversations-propaganda/   

The twitter link is inaccessible. Sounds like fake news used to justify murder.

I can't really imagine why would the US think of such a dumb plan with no real end goal. Even if the real target was the father, what would that acomplish. So no, it definatelly was not the US, I am sure they can pick better targets.

As for what she said or didn't say, she was just a dimwit pushing hard on her fathers idiotic concepts, so even if she didn't say this, she said other stupid shit. Does she deserve to die for that? No. But hey, I couldn't care less either way.

thank's for the correction. I think I missed the most important question in your thread.
We need members of Russia to verify these statements. Anyway, I searched the internet using these keywords: "Dugin's daughter:Ukrainians are not humans" and didn't find any result. I don't think the media will miss an important point like this to analyze the circumstances of her death.

I do not think that Putin is still looking for an excuse to complete the invasion or to reinforce it for such reasons. Unless he ordered her assassination for other reasons not related to the Ukrainian war.

Where do you get that from? Not from what I said.

I am asking if anyone knows Russian and can confirm she said this.

It could also be Putin himself, you know, to transform the 'special operation' into 'war', nukes, full mobilization, etc.

He did a similar provocation to justify the Chechen war.

Do you really think that the assassination was a result of her statements about the Ukrainians? Maybe that's what the killer wants us to think.

When someone incites violence, it does not give the green light to kill them. This young lady was supposed to be sued for her racist remarks on the media. And since this could not have happened, this is certainly the official position of the state.

Of course, there is a front against the Russian invasion of Ukraine inside Russia, and it is not surprising that it is supportive of Ukraine or that it is run by hidden powers. And here the United States can be easily inserted through its proxies in almost every country. But I think the United States has no direct benefit for this to happen because such statements made by the dead woman are in its interest to distort Russia's image and inflame public opinion against it.

Dugin's daughter: 'Ukrainians are not humans. They all deserve to die.'

https://twitter.com/WarAgainstPutin/status/1561131023168987136

As some of you may know, there has been an attack in Moscow that seems to have been aimed at the philosopher Aleksandr Duguin, whom some describe as Putin's ideologue.

Since I don't know Russian, I can't verify what the tweet says, but curious if she actually said that, that she is a supporter of "denazifying" when few statements can be made that are more Nazi than that. Mass murder has always started from a dehumanization of the other, be it Hitler versus the Jews, the Hutus versus the Tutsis or other cases. If you see the other as a cockroach, you can crush it without worrying about its feelings and even feeling disgusted when you kill it.

Apart from the affirmation, what do you think? Did they kill her from the inside? Was it the USA? Will there be repercussions?