Topic: Dump overnight because of a false article about a double spend (Read 426 times)

It never happened. 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-double-spend-never-happenedColin Harper

"Put another way, no bitcoin was “double-spent” because no new coins were added to Bitcoin’s supply. Instead, the same coins from the same wallet were registered in two different blocks during a typical split in Bitcoin’s blockchain.-210834555.html#:~:text=Put%20another%20way%2C%20no%20bitcoin,typical%20split%20in%20Bitcoin's%20blockchain."

We know that this market is highly reactive to fud so it wasnt a surprising thing.

I know you guys are just trolling, or feeding the troll. Once anyone mentions the three letters "CSW" it's quite easy to completely ignore everything else he has to say.

It's a free world, but I simply don't like wasting too much of my time. Maybe just a little.

The same people were sounding the alarm about SegWit telling people that your funds are going to be stolen if sent to a SegWit address by using technobabble and throwing terms such as "anyone can spend".

There are lots of companies building centralized crap on top of bitcoin such as Tether. They all have their utilities but they are still centralized crap.

Bitcoin has never had any "splits".
It is an open source protocol with open to all blockchain all under MIT license allowing anyone to freely create a copy of it and thousands of developers have done it with about a hundred of them also copying the blockchain and the name. None of it is considered a "split" but they are all simply "copies" and poor copies at that.

You again shot yourself in the foot. All the arguments you made in your previous posts about the "double spend" are true in all the bitcoin copies from LTC and DOGE down to shitcoins like BCH, BTG, BTV, BSV,... they all inherit the same characteristics of bitcoin since they are copies of the protocol.
Same 2 competing transactions could take place in any of these chains and be included in two different blocks, one in the main chain and another a stale block (orphan is wrong term).

I was wondering how long it took for you people to use it this way

In other words you believe that bitcoin is a centralized thing that is owned by one person. Good to know your real views!

Fud was created so that people could be afraid, sell their coins, and other rich people could buy a lot more from the cheap amount. Let's be honest with each other, at 40k price it is not going to go double that easily, we are talking about 40k here, the double of 40k is 80k and reaching that level is not easy. However if you create FUD and pay mainstream (crypto mainstream, not regular mainstream) media channels how there is a horrible situation going on (this time it was double spend) that would cause it to go down.

It means if we reach to 25k or even 20k that would make things easier, you would buy from those levels and you could sell from 40k to 50k and can double your profit very easily. This is exactly the reason why there was a talk about this, because people wanted more money and rich people are capable of creating fud all their own if they want to.

You can stick to BCH or BSV with CSW all you want. That's fine with us. That is your choice. But remember it's an altcoin as considered by economic majority.

Whether they are right or wrong is irrelevant.

All we ever wanted was cryptographic proof and he could never do it, and never will.

Bitcoin Core are just developers, so they can take down something. Not to worry, Michael Saylor put it back up on his site, Digital Fidelity put it back up, and maybe a dozen others put it back up. The whitepaper.

You can read it from over a dozen different websites now. I'd like to see CSW try to sue Fidelity and MicroStrategy.

So where's the signed message as proof of Satoshi? Delusion is a hell of a drug, sgbett.


Because he's a fraud. A con man. A proven plagiarist. A snake oil salesman. And you're one of his best customers.

I love how those 3 little letters make it impossible for people to read any other words around them.

Now I start to understand what's your agenda. LoL!

Look here... I thought we needed LN in 2016...


2 years of back and forth though and it became abundantly clear that I was wrong about the reasons for LN and SegWit. When SWx2 was proposed and as soon as segwit was introduced everyone reneged on the 2mb part. Fortunately Bitcoin forked so the original chain could be preserved. I still don't think block stream are bad guys, but it was very clear they were a business looking to make money off the back of bitcoin and that the original design did not fit with their plans. Lots of people sounded the alarm about LN, and side chains. They were all discussed and here we are today LN still not delivered, and Liquid is the preferred "Bitcoin" for Blockstream. Who knew? This is not nefarious insomuch as they are a business and they want to make money, but it should make you question why certain decisions were made. Adam Pivoting from 2/4/8 to a hard refusal is the shining example.

I feel like I have followed what has happened over the last 10 years *very* closely, I have *always* considered Bitcoin to be p2p digital cash (per Whitepaper) and so when I see changes that move Bitcoin away from this it raises huge red flags. It was incredibly painful the split in 2018. I now realise this was my own cognitive dissonance. I saw BTC before me, that I had strongly supported all these years. I saw a "fork" that everyone was telling me was fake. I knew though the "fake" one represented everything I had always believed in Bitcoin and the "real" one had diverged and become something else. Letting go of BTC was the hardest decision in my life.

For some years I have wondered if I did the right thing, but the longer time went on the more relaxed I became.

Fortunately the situation appears to be coming to a head this year bitcoin core's removal of Whitepaper is tacit admission that it is no longer Bitcoin per the Whitepaper. The next step is CSW will pursue reclaiming the Bitcoin brand through the courts, people seem to detest this approach - but ask yourself if he is fraud then why would he be going to court. That is the last place fraudsters and scammers want to end up!

The people that know what's going on, but continue to deny the reality of the situation - well they only have themselves to blame.

The innocent people that do not know what is going on is who I feel for most.

Sell house.
Zero confs.

Ok, here are the house keys. I'll be back later if it does not confirm. I know where you live.

But selling a car? Wait 3 confs. Selling coffee? Don't you have free points on that Starbucks rewards card you have? (Or reload that card first.)


Bitcoin offers finality of settlement faster than any international bank can do. They typically take at least 3 to 5 days.

I'd argue that Bitcoin is a check (or cheque) or bank draft or money order that clears in an hour.

At this point, I do not think that the price will drop due to any news or article, the market never reacts so quickly, unless it is a great fundamental, and we are in the middle of a fundamental called Covid-19, that even so the sustained pump of Bitcoin has been maintained and with the beginning of this 2021 and under the presidency of Biden things have been balancing, we just have to wait, but how things look and knowing that the market is also moving by emotions I do not see a strong fall yet possible .

Lol. I know it provides no guarantees, I said *expected* behaviour. (it would be the most economically rational thing to do). However now there exists absolute proof that a miner might mine either. The only straw man is you thinking my central point was "RBF provides guarantees"

My central point is: RBF provides no guarantees, it means that in BTC you must wait for confirmation(s)

My conclusion from this is: BTC cannot be used as P2P digital cash, as it was intended.

They've never did provide any guarantee.

About the digital cash part, I think that's debatable. The fact that people are used to transfer cash instantly, doesn't mean that any kind of cash have to do this. Bitcoin, by design, makes you wait for confirmations. Even if this "flaw" (as you seem to see it) would not exist, even then you would not be able to pay with Bitcoin at the grocery store (just imagine how big the queue would get!)

You can still pay with Bitcoin, however, for your plane ticket, for your vacation, for whatever you are shopping online. It still fits to the P2P digital cash use case and one can properly wait for the proper number of confirmations. And for the grocery store, .. we need something added to Bitcoin. Maybe LN, maybe something else.

And I'm not panicked at all, nice try to twist my words. Only newbies with insufficient knowledge can get panicked by all this ... story.

RBF is not supposed to provide a guarantee, it's quite the opposite - it's a warning that the TX can be replaced. Have fun arguing with your straw man.

I'm not quite sure about that but perhaps this FUD causes a sell-off that is why the price doesn't go that well. But it could also be a correction as well. Anyway, I don't think that it is the end of the rally, rather than taking the news seriously what if you take the opportunity to buy 'cause pretty sure that it will bounce back. This might be FUD actually, so better for us not to be swayed by it because if we do and decide to sell-off then you know who's gonna buy it and make a benefit from it.

Orphan blocks happen all the time. Yes I know this, I said nothing about that because its common knowledge.

What I explained were the consequences of having an earlier lower fee tx be the one in the longest chain. This means RBF provides no guarantees, it means that in BTC you must wait for confirmation(s) - as you restated. So BTC cannot be used as P2P digital cash, as it was intended.

If that makes you panic you should probably ask yourself why.

If you would be a newbie, I'd understand this post. But anyone long enough around should know that most services need 3 confirmations (some years ago it was 6) and anyone knows that orphaned blocks do happen.
Also a replaceable transaction, one on which RBF can be made, has a special flag, allowing the recipient get warned to be more careful (yes, a proper wallet shows that)

But it's easier to panic and spread panic than read and learn...

The amount of "this is fine" is absolutely incredible, Andreas all up on twitter, creating articles, posting videos. Absolutely essential to convince those that don't really understand the implications of what this means that there is nothing to see here.

RBF + Full Blocks makes zero confidence unworkable, because it supplants the first seen rule and *allows* double spends. In Core's view of things this a feature not a bug.

What's interesting about this is that the expected behaviour of RBF would be that the later broadcast tx with the higher fee should be the one that makes it into the chain, but in this case a miner instead followed the first seen rule.

The implication of this is that you *absolutely* must wait for confirmations, which makes BTC essentially useless as Peer-to-Peer digital cash.

Again, in core's view of things this is a feature not a bug.

For anyone keeping up at home, Bitcoin was first and foremost supposed to be digital cash.

A semantic argument about it not being a double spend because one of them was not spent is disingenuous. Real world consequences of this are that a customer spending $20 in a coffee shop is long gone and the merchant has no recourse. Ergo, BTC cannot be used as digital cash.

At least now core has taken down the Whitepaper there is no question that they are building something else. Maybe that thing is a great thing, maybe ya'll can get rich trading it. GLHF

I don't usually care that much about FUD's but I only do one thing whenever I see some articles that destroys Bitcoin.
"BUY MORE".

I've seen many things like this already and this double spend thing has been posted many times in the internet already but it already is a false statement. Negative news = panic and then sell for those newbie investors but if you are a contrarian and a pro investor,  you know that this are just some of the opportunities for us to accumulate more at a lower price .

Ah CSW went silent mode when bitcoin was making a good run on reaching a new all time high, and now that it is down to $30k'ish he suddenly appear, Lol, typical of attention grabber like CSW so no surprised there.

And yes, we have seen so many lies and fake news in the past, the good thing is that bitcoin is so resilient or become battle tested with this kind of attacks because we are still here. And now that the double spend has been clear, we might see the price jumping again to around $35k or even more next week.

Without thinking about the negative news, I only think that this dump is about the downtrend that always happens to bitcoin. And that is what happens in the crypto. It will be many more reasons why the price is a dump and we are not sure about that, and we can only guess what the reason is. We do not have to think too much about the cause because we will miss the chance to buy bitcoin at a low price if we still think like that.

1. Since you know that it's a false article, please don't back-link to it. For now you are doing the opposite of what Andreas Antonopoulos wrote:


2. The dump/correction has started long ago. This latest 4k is most probably not that much related to this news. I mean that if people would have dumped because of this, the price would have gone down by 10-20k (!). Of course, that means that it would have been a problem for real there.

This is the key here. We, long-term holders, should't worry about these short-term swings. Just keep holding or buy more. Only the weak hands will sell and lose money due to these news.

There is also a large volume of sold bitcoins around US because of the looming talks on regulating bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in their country. Maybe this is a combination of both FUD, innate volatility of the market and market matters that some of us might not fully understand. Hodling is still the best course of action as this sudden dump could result in a sudden pump too.

Well, for sure creating a FUD like that would be one of the few main reasons to trigger a dump as some people would easily believe to the news that has been published in the main stream cryptocurrency news websites.
Nevertheless, this could also mean a huge market correction after the Bitcoin bullrun, which kinda normal.
But which ever way Bitcoin headed, I guess we're all fine even If Btc falls below $20,000 because that simply means more accumulation to garner more profit in the future.

Maybe there's another possible waves more that what's happening lately, let's observe the recent market. Though it's not certain to always move higher, but learning how to ride with the trend would definitely makes us lucky in the future. People always tend to be affected with the daily news updates, so it's basically one of the huge factor specially when getting emotional.

Checked CoinDesk and a few other crypto news sources and they are saying that this news triggered the sell-off. Bitcoin has lost almost one-fourth of its value since the new ATH was recorded on 8th January ($41,800 per coin). Anyway, I am not very concerned about it, since there is no plan to sell any of my coins in the immediate term. Most of us were expecting a correction before the next rally, and I am glad that it happened without much delay.

We don't know for sure what made this sudden large drop. We can't attribute it to one particular situation only. As this market is the combination of various factors, one situation will not give a massive sell-off in the market. Just my opinion on this matter. But this decline is already expected. We can't go up forever.

I disagree.

It started looking dumpy a couple days ago. And I've been saying for a week now that sentiment is too bullish, very "Wave B" like (before a brutal Wave C to new lows).

If anything, this was just a catalyst for the technicals that were already unfolding. It didn't cause anything. People were looking for any excuse to sell off, and it likely would have happened whether or not any FUD emerged to support the narrative.


Pumping to $42K was reason enough. This is just a typical bull market correction. It just went a bit lower than some bulls are comfortable with.

Yeah this is the reason why we've seen a dump. I just noticed it when Cointelegraph also published this news on their Facebook Page. I was like 'tf' is with this. Haha.
People still buying the FUD that are being published and keeps on panic selling. Good for the boys who have been waiting for this dip, it's now all your turn before it gets back on track again.

Andreas A. has debunked this so called double spend, but it has impacted the market already so be it. Just some minor dump, we are still way above $30k so I would say that we just need to keep calm and not be affected by this so called double spend because there is none. It's almost the end of the month already, so I'm still optimistic that this is just a period of consolidation, next month might be different. I'm expecting a bounce back to at least $40k.

Yeah maybe it's a coincidence but I was expecting price to go down from 2 days anyways. We are already down broken down our 20Day EMA and if we close below this support chances are we are going down to 26-27k. I think these small things are now just mere sparks. You would see tons of good as well as bad news floating around each day. It's just us who mark every pump and dump to such news. There would have been some good news regarding btc too but as there was a dump we very easily cherry pick a news and try to make sense of it with today's dump. This is just human psychology.

Regardless if the bitcoin dump happened because of this article or something else, but this is good for me because I took advantage of this decrease in the bitcoin price and increased the amount of bitcoin I have and I will wait for it to go up after that until I enjoy my profits.
This could be a practical example of the way the news works to influence the bitcoin market, perhaps some large corporations or whales are using this method to steal bitcoin from the faint of heart at cheap prices.

True, when it comes to fuds and other scenario then this isnt really that too serious nor a thing to be bothered. Why people do really connect out situations without
even thinking back that this had been a typical situation that do happen in the market? Small percentage price correction or dip doesnt signify that there are
things that do happen.

Double spend? This isnt something to be shocked on. Also the price hadnt able to break its strong support. We are still playing around 32k as of this writing.
Dead cat bounce? I dont think so.

So this is why it happened, I was in fact wondering why the price went down so quickly and at the beginning I just assumed that this was the volatility of bitcoin playing with people's minds once again, but this makes sense, the price was doing well and then suddenly this article comes out and people begin to sell, but this is also worrying, this is the kind of move that you can do only when the majority of the action within the market comes from retail investors.

If the whales were behind the latest movements in the market something like this will never be effective against them, which means that the positive movement that we were seeing was simply unsustainable anyway.

the problem is not the size that makes this drop be because of the FUD machine that is super active today. the problem is with price going below a strong support that could not have been broken normally with any amount of efforts.
it also can not be a coincidence that price started dropping more and more the minute the FUD started to fill the internet.

in a couple of days we can see whose wallets got fatter though

What does it matter even if the dump is as a result of the article, btc has face worst fud than this and worst dump than this and still recover with full force, I believe this dump presents an opportunity to accumulate those who understand that buying the dip is not a idea.

It's definitely because of the article. The dump literally started just after the article was published on a popular crypto news site. There was no reason for Bitcoin to dump below the $33k-$35k bottom it was forming, then this article hit and the price dumped like $4000-$5000. This is not normal bitcoin volatility, sure such a price drop can happen just due to market volatility but this clearly isn't the case this time, it was precisely due to the FUD around this fake news article. And obviously it's the retail market that dumped over night. Retail market are precisely the people who panic sell due to FUD like this.

It's very clear the retail market dumped because of this fake news double spend article. Poor suckers.

I don't think the dump is because of this article or something. Thisis just usual BTC volatility. It went 12% down that day too. If BTC can be pumped by 10-15% in a day then be prepared to face a downfall of such magnitude too. Talking about this double spend this isn't really anything big and someone who has money to influence markets will definitely know that this isn't even a double spend. Such things no more create FUDs for BTC any more.

Looks like a $4000+ dump occurred overnight because of a false article about a double spend. Dump started right after the article was published last night.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-double-spend-spotted-in-the-wild


Of course this is just a normal temporary fork in the chain that resulted from a transaction getting used twice with different fees and included in two different blocks around the same time, and naturally one of the chains succeeded in being the longest chain which resulted in the other transaction getting stuck in orphaned blocks. But obviously the market panic sold at this news haha. Perfect time to buy cheap bitcoin as this should correct upwards quickly as people realize this news was fake haha (a rare instance of actual fake news!). And the cointelegraph quoted a BSV scammer to play up the "double spend" smh