Topic: [EDU] EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN LENDING TO USERS! (Read 100254 times)

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If you offer valid collateral there is no minimum rank.  Most lenders require collateral to be worth a minimum of 120% of your requested amount.

Some lenders offer loans without collateral, and each has their own requirements that may include rank.  I've published some of my requirements in my lending thread, but I also have other requirements which I do not discuss publicly.

 what is minimum ranks to get loans and minimum for loan collateral ?
thank you

Hi
Thanks
I have also found out recently that you can track where your money has gone through blockchain, I have been scammed twice but I actually have the addresses where my money has gone.

Be careful when lending from someone and to someone.
People of today seem to like hurting people.

Updated this sticky a little bit for 2019. I've changed what I define as a 'new user' to anyone who is Member or below now rather than Jr. Member or below. You can get Member in less than three months and I don't want people to think that suddenly 2.5 months of being on the forums makes someone less likely to scam. Full Member requires a little more time investment.

Obviously you should still not loan without collateral whenever possible. Personally the only loans I'd ever do without collateral are relatively small ones (definitely less than 0.005 BTC) to Hero Members/Legendary with a history of good trust. That's just how I operate.

Very insightful, thank you! Now with crypto-backed loans products, what is your take on that? To me it seems there are a few good businesses for that and tempting I have to say

Great advice by all standard, as a Jr. Member looking to learn and improve on this noble platform this is a must read and apply for my success here.From your post and other equally useful comments from the most experienced guys here. Am much grateful to learn from all of you today.

p2p lending can be risky as you are relying on the website itself to pursue someone who defaults, and they often don't succeed. You need to trust both the platform and the person you are lending to, and I still think you should exercise extreme caution.

Hi, have you heard something about Welltrado project (www.welltrado.io)? As I understood from their website they are focusing into p2p lending. It looks like and interesting project. Any thoughts about them?

Does anyone knows if gift cards are chargback? Because if so...

There are many lending sites that offers 20-30% ROI in just 1 month. Although I am not sure if they are legit. They have a structured white paper and youtube testimonials.

After read so many fintech websites, I'm just looking for best site/person/institutions to make a lending program for my monthly stable income. For me it's brand new world so i need to explore it more deep, wish we are all get success from cryptocurrency era. Thank u you

Thanks! helpful information!

this information is cool, it reminded me because i had just read an offer about lending. but i have a question, is only newbie member can fraud or scam us? or is there a posibility that Member above rank can do also scamming?

If it can be used to trace someone back to their house or such, then I would consider it acceptable.

Thanks for this great explaination mate helped me alot

So I know this is almost 3 years old, but I agree with this 100%. I'm new to this particular community, but I have been around bitcoins for over 2 years. I decided that this would be a great place to begin getting more involved. I can't wait to get more involved in this particular community.

There is no way to be sure if someone is genuine. don't depend on the ID because it might be fake. sometimes we just need to trust someone blindly hoping for the best.

The thing is, if you really need money to pay your bills or whatnot, get a loan from the bank.

Bitcoin is not big enough yet to have service providers accept it as payment.

I'm not adding that simply due to credit card fraud.

@DiamondCardz: First of all, thank you for putting effort on creating this thread! Can you make a note about 'Steam' saying that "if the borrower moves the game or weapons to lenders or a trusted person's wallet, it can be used as collateral".

P.S. Can you also tell the lenders to check their posts and also to ask a signed message from one of their old address(1-2 months)?

   -MZ

Because your thread is a sticky so lots of lender/borrowers read it i thought it may be helpfuf to others if you add my suggestion regarding the lender leaving netural trust on the loanee's trust profile once a loan has been taken and only removed when the loan is repaid in full.
This would be another way someone could check if the member has a outstanding loan before buying their account, lending them BTC  or just conducting any business with them.

You can see an example of what i am talking about on my profile that was left by tm2013.
Please let me know what you think of this idea.
Thanks.

Edit: i just seen the post above mine quoted in the OP, the leaving of netural trust by a lender needs to be made clearer i think, no many lenders i have spoken with know they could do that.

Quoted this:


And re-titled the thread to make it a tad more intimidating, so that people actually read it.

is it id only and you can have loans?

Useful information and feature to improve and develop our private business here. Nice...

Maybe it would be useful to find a real sociopathic scammer and observe what he did (or does?). I don't think I've ever met one (except maybe a wallet-stealing plumber who stole a wallet when daughter was a newborn, a bit before Christmas), and I only happened to "observe" one by looking through a bunch of documents wife had on him while dating.

He was unbelievably resourceful and brazen, making all his own ID, forming dozens of LLCs, and having more paperwork, legit and otherwise, than the VA. Guy (rather, his LLCs) scammed title transfers and "legally" owned dozens of cars. Almost wish I knew him to learn about what to look out for. Almost.

On that note, titles as collateral are a terrifying proposition, even if the person's relatively close (which in this subforum means <300mi away). I took a motorcycle on collateral on one of my first p2p loans -- I'd never do that again, even though it turned out well and he even repaid early. It brings into question whether or not "smart titles" would be good collateral. Depending on how the privkey was acquired, law might still find the current controller to've acquired it illegitimately and so the collateral could be worthless. To a far lesser extent right now, this could extend to cryptos and digital shares/bonds/whatever-they're-being-called-now, but I've never heard of a case, there. I don't actually recall any crypto thief being caught, yet. I guess Pirate & Karpeles count, but they were record-setters.

Unless the id is made out of solid gold or silver

A scam free environment can only happen in our dreams!
Scam is like a part of everything. Coin have two sides and it can't exist only with 1 side. Like that for everything there will be scams. Anyway I like to see a scam free environment.

Kindly,
        Muhammed Zakhir

Good thread, very informative and well written.
We need to make a scam free environement. (What is never gonna happen)
So try to use collateral or some form of escrow.(unless trusted)

Stephanie: It's like when you make a loan to your cousin. Don't loan them anything that you wouldn't consider a gift.

Andreas: Well, I can always track my cousin down and kick him in the nuts.

Stephanie: That's true. You can't do that with a Bitcoin address.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/e18-its-not-that-simple/#.UodX2flusxk

Collateral can be mailed and insured.
Collateral can be in a digital form, e.g. alternate cryptocurrencies can be used as collateral.
IDs aren't worth much because they are easy to obtain (by forging, stealing, "borrowing" from someone, or they can be simply bought online).

Not to mention that even if it is possible to ascertain that someone's ID is really genuine, in case of a default it may still be very difficult or impossible (expensive and time-consuming) to recover the money (especially when dealing with someone from abroad).

Excellent advice

Thanks for taking the time to put together

Although i respect diamondcardz advice on lending to new users i think some advice is bit short sighted.

Collateral is fine if someone lives in travel distance but not really if they live abroad.
Also members new and old maybe cautious sending collateral and/or id to members due to bening scammed themselves, not because they r scammers.


Newbies can bé as wise as hero members remember just cause they r new here doesnt mean they are new to lending or bitcoins.

Ultimately ID is better than collateral for borrowers and lenders should never lend more than they could afford to lose in event a user defaults.

There are good rules for lending should i think could bé usul here ;-)

Uh, that's a lie.

The new limits mean you can't be a Full Member for 1 month, you can't be a Sr. Member for 6 months, and you can't be a Hero Member for 1 year.

Easiest way to spot a scammer is unfortunately listed 4th in Diamond's post.


Just check the post history. No scammer will take time to make decent posts before he can reap off some newbie.

And go to the bottom of it.
Get used to the user written style from the earliest post, then compare it to the one where he asks for a loan.
This protects you against bought accounts, too.

Arent those directly connected to each other?
The new limits and activity help a bit, but i still see 1 day old Hero Members.

Re-defined in the OP.

It's important we use the same definition, so I look to the dictionary which says collateral is security for a loan.

While identification helps prove a person is who he/she says, it does NOTHING in helping secure the funds.

You don't want to fool new users into thinking it's safe to lend to someone because they know who they are - its NOT. 

Collateral is something to fall back on - something to sell - should the borrower not repay his debt.  ID cannot help with that.

If it can be used to trace someone back to their house or such, then I would consider it acceptable. Proof of ID, not the actual physical ID

Hey, newbies lending to newbies tend to have a 80% success rate

Stickied. With the recent wave of fresh newbies begging to be scammed so that they can cry later in the scammer accusation subforums, warnings like this is greatly appreciated. (though I would bet most newbies do not read stickies....)

ID is not acceptable collateral for a loan.

There has been a massive influx of new users requesting loans lately, and as a result, lots of people being scammed. It seems that Tomatocage's thread isn't enough, so let me just say this:

Do not loan to new users unless you can get collateral OR if they are very trusted due to high-risk services they provide (examples: gambling sites, currency exchange sites), because the chances of them defaulting/scamming are 90%+.

What defines a "new" user?

• Anyone who is a Member, Jr. Member or Newbie
• Anyone who has registered within the last few months
• Anyone with less than ~100-200 posts
• Anyone whose posts mainly consist of spam and/or meaningless posts such as "+1" and "nice post"
• Anyone who refuses to provide collateral or ID for large loans (a general guideline is >0.005 BTC) or states that they can not give it may not be new, but is untrustworthy.
• Anyone who you think is a scammer, because in the Lending sub-forum, 90% of the time, you're probably right.

There has been an influx of people giving loans as high as .85 BTC (remember, that's $100! Edit: At $1000 (per BTC), that's $850, at $500, that's $425.) to newbies who have just registered, and shortly after been stabbed in the back. Don't do it.

Even if the member is not 'new', always try to get collateral! Accounts are regularly bought and sold and 'exit scams' are common, where someone finishes up with Bitcointalk and decides to run off with as much as they can as a 'reward' for the time they spent on their account. If you are going to loan without collateral I would highly recommend only doing so for amounts on the smaller end of the spectrum (<0.005 BTC or so), and to users who have been around for a long time (Hero/Legendary) and have good amounts of positive trust.

What is good collateral for a loan? (From best to worst)

• #1: Alternate stable and well acknowledged cryptocurrencies
• #2: Securities and shares such as TAT.ASICMINER
• #3: Anything that can be traded in somewhere for a secure cash/Bitcoin value quickly

• #4: Physical items such as an iPad

Or, if you can not get collateral:

• Identification that is clear, verified and can be linked to you and trace you Note: This has been less and less commonly accepted recently due to the relative difficulty of doing anything productive with a scammer's ID.

If someone is requesting a loan and meets any of the "new" user criteria, do not loan to them unless you can get collateral. For your own sake.

Also: Invaluable advice from Boelens on bad collateral:


To add to this: Gift Cards are also terrible collateral. Not only are they hard to sell for their full value (you'll probably get more like 50-80%), like with all GC sales, they can be fraudulently purchased meaning that you either have the GC balance zeroed out before you can use it, or you use it and then get left holding the bag when the police arrive.

22nd of December, 2014: Another extension onto this:


The trust system is invaluable to prevent against scammers. Members may be old but have suspicious trust history, and their trust can help you make a calculated decision.