Topic: El Salvador celebrate 21st of December 21 with 21 Bitcoin (Read 479 times)

I think they have done it before they've investment on bitcoin since late last year.

And now I would say that it's hard to see wherein they are right or wrong with their investment before the price seems to be going down hard again that they might be losing money in their investment just saying.

Anyhow, I would say that El Salvador might be a good use case on how good bitcoin could really be a hedge specially long term (we can't judge them for holding just for a short amount of time, maybe we will see a clearer picture in the next halving, and bull run).

Currently El Salvador government is analyzing their perspective and what the future holds for their investment and infrastructure development, when you talk about the Bitcoin city and how it intends to affect the budget of the nation for some time.

El Salvador to Move Forward With Issuing Bitcoin Bonds: Finance Minister
https://decrypt.co/89771/el-salvador-move-forward-bitcoin-bonds-finance-minister
"The government will send around 20 bills to Congress to get started with the issuance of Bitcoin bonds.
In brief
El Salvador last month announced it would issue Bitcoin-backed bonds.
The country’s finance minister today said it was moving ahead with the legislation to do so."

Some of the senior citizens of El Salvador staged a protest against bitcoin adoption in the country at the early stage of the President's willingness to make Bitcoin a legal tender in El Salvador but I believe that was settled with the right information and advantages of Bitcoin to their economy.

Because at that time a lot of people there were worried and that's very natural, I think, but it's been under control and what they really need is clarity so it won't create anxiety for the retirees.
on the other hand now they are on a different level in terms of adoption and this I think is very good and I'm not sure if protests like what happened in the beginning will happen again

El Salvador retirees stage a protest in the early days of Bitcoin adoption as a legal tender in that country, but I don't think it regenerated in riots.
The fact is this move to invest heavily in Bitcoin may not sound well to most of the citizens but again it's a good step to setting the country falling economy on the right part and in the next few years to come, they will gain heavily from this investment.

I am not sure how this will end as they are completely embracing BTCitcoin and investing heavily and i am expecting a riot if we see a major correction, it is a fine line when you start investing a nations wealth to a highly volatile asset and then ask people to follow the same pattern. It should be individual choices rather than enforcing someone.

I am not sure how coins keep vanishing from the wallet, they could easily identify the movement of coins as it is not a third party wallet they are using, but a wallet created by the government from what i understand.

El Salvador government spending their earning on the needed things especially the social amenties in the needed area because I read somewhere in this forum that some of the citizen of the country dont benefit from the country democracy which the reason why they vandalized some BTC atm implemented by the government.
In the meantime, i hope they are prepare for the market correction though.

It's interesting, but I think it's part of the process. El Salvador should also have understood the issue. They deserve to have knowledge about security. I don't understand this loss yet. Whether there is a purely weakness of the Chivo wallet or an error occurs in the user.
Fifty examples of bitcoin loss may still be few when compared to the number of their citizens El Salvador. 
But, if this really happened, Nayib Bukele must immediately confirm the truth. Is it the user's fault or is there a problem with the Chivo wallet. In addition, he also has to make improvements to the Chivo wallet application

Well, El Salvador doesn't have to be a tech Savior country to invest in Bitcoin but to develop the skills toward that they are currently building a bitcoin city that will serve as a tech hub for research and development.

El Salvador are now trying to hard to show the world that they are bitcoin ready but what bothers me is... Is El Salvador a tech savvy country that all its people can usethese digital currencies without a problem?? If not all these crypto activities might be benefiting a few individuals in this country, otherwise great to see they have bitcoin activities on their calendar.

Very good step taken by El Salvador government. I hope it inspires other countries to take the same step. It is sad to see that some countries are trying to do the opposite. They are trying to ban crypto or add more taxes for people investing in crypto.

Bukele 'Has Not Responded' to Claims of Bitcoin Vanishing From Citizens' Wallets: Report
https://decrypt.co/89275/bukele-has-not-responded-claims-bitcoin-vanishing-citizens-wallets-report
"In the latest in a long line of problems plaguing El Salvador’s Bitcoin embrace, locals are reporting that their Bitcoin is vanishing from their accounts."

The legalization of cryptocurrency is very good, but when the well-known rule: "Not your keys - not your money" stops working, many absurd situations always begin to arise.

El Salvador is much focused of its future development. If I'm not wrong, long back itself there is more and more discussion about the fintech centre. Now this has been confirmed with the revolutionary decision from the El Salvador government. Transparency in regular transaction also sets the government to function corruption free. For sure El Salvador will be followed by more small countries.

El Salvador has the eyes on the future and is well aware of the total supply and how scarce commodities and miners will be Bitcoin will have a limited supply that increases its value.

It probably, by the coming months or years, they are buying more and make a celebration again. Actually, the government is looking forward to seeing that they will make history on Bitcoin and becoming the top and leading country that owns Bitcoin and widely used it everywhere in their teritory.

The transparency of the government helps to gain more trust from the community and that is exactly what they do know. They can purchase more as long as they can and as long as the community is supporting it. I'm not sure if they are killing fiat in this regard, but I guess not.

I hope that's the case but what I'm underlining now is how they manage well because someone's nature will definitely be in a greedy stage and this is what worries me, how about some time ago when the price was high and indeed at that time Tesla sold almost all their bitcoins and do fud but now they accept back when the price is cheap is certainly a troubling thing.
hopefully things like this don't happen again here and they remain consistent as a country that is indeed friendly to bitcoin

El Salvador is one country that has shown great support for bitcoin adoption and accumulation which is a pointer to how the country is willing to redirect its economy in such a way that in the future the economy will generate intense interest.

correct, no one will gonna let the opportunity when it comes buying at the dip, because it's the only way to have good return afterwards. so it's not surprising those big investors will keep buying at the current level of bitcoin because obviously that's the right time for them while there's no progress.

I don't think we can call it a "Way the El Salvador government is by Buying Bitcoin" because i believe that it is obligatory as they have adopted Bitcoin to be a legal tender so it is their obligation to Buy , Hold and Circulate Bitcoin at the same time so they will show their People about the advantage and the possible help in every individual.
if there are someone that needs to make this in reality then it is their government .

As long as they really want the goal for good, it's clearly very positive, but there is always a need for strict supervision because deviations can occur if not strictly monitored. but obviously I totally agree that what they are doing is really aimed at improving the country and they will still be fine and need not worry too much.

maybe it's just the communication that has not gone well so that there is no visible transparency, but because their intention is for improvement purposes, they can be sure that they are on the right path.

it's just a matter of how they have to run everything with the rules that are made strictly so that there is no misguided target that will occur later. but in principle what is done is for improvement and should be supported accordingly. hopefully bitcoin will change their economy for the better.

Indirectly they have benefited but indeed when talking about speculation now I think everyone has their own speculation about bitcoin and the truth is that until now nothing is really right and only bitcoin is able to answer speculators at this time.
But for them I'm quite happy because as you said, whether it's being held or partially sold they will still be in profit, on the other hand the longer they hold on to it the better it actually is for them.

El Salvador is already ahead of many other smaller countries that are currently facing economic challenges as they have gone a step ahead to invest in the future. I don't care at what price they bought Bitcoin as long as it is stored and held for a long time then its price will increase.

There’s really nothing to be questioning here, it’s already clear that they would continue to hold it, and as the price of Bitcoin continues to increase that would mean profit for them. Imagine that Bitcoin reaches $100,000 by next year as some analysts has been saying, that is going to mean about double of their investment. It will then be up to their government and whether they would want to sell the assets or maybe continue to hold it. Even if they should continue to hold it, it’s still not a bad idea because the value of Bitcoin will continue to increase in the future. So they have made a really good choice for investment.

Though the value bought might seem small for a nation, a few things hold. It was bought of no serious significance, just to add some more to there hodling. Though, I see what they are doing to be of some significant to the crypto space as, they've not had some negativism to the crypto instead, they buy out of benefits from the legalisation they've done on bitcoin. Its a plus for bitcoin and with time, other nations would see the need to bitcoin legalisation.

Talking about 21 bitcoins, in the early years of bitcoin none could imagine the amount of 21 bitcoin will be this much important to be mentioned in articles and people start talking about it. However, El Salvador has already shown us how they believe in bitcoin and use it as a hedge against the inflation rate. We all know El Salvador had some of the worst economic situations and worthless fiat currency but after these investments by their government, I expect to see surprising news about this country in a few years if they stay in this way.

He is not trading he is holding, nothing wrong with that... Anytime is as good as ever, as long as your vision remains long term. Some people just go with scheduled buys, no matter what the price is. This is a perfectly valid long term strategy. Also fitting in a country that is starting to pay wages in bitcoin, which happens at specific days of the month, no matter what the market price is. It will average, the variability is not a problem because what most employers do is pay the equivalent of "something else" in bitcoin at any given time, just like those purchasing things over there.

I believe there is a thread somewhere in this forum about, what if you purchase 1 USD equivalent of bitcoin everyday, with a comparison of the USD invested vs actual current USD if you sold those bitcoins.

Remember, all fiats, and their pegged altcoins, are designed to lose purchasing power over time, over the dogma of obsolete economic thinking that debt is king and infinite credit expansion is the way (its the cause of bubbles and crashes too, from the distortions to the economy this generates).

Of course they don't want you to keep your garbage money saved, that is the whole point. Thus the inflation is seen by them like the driving factor for you to use it. This is so wrong in so many ways i won't even start, just read the Austrian school of economics for better insight.

And then came bitcoin. Of course they are in panic, they are the cause of the problem. Might as well close all those useless central banks. The remaining banks should drop the fractional reserve ponzi scheme and be clear to their clients, if they want to keep existing that is.

You see, they wanted you to depend on banks. But guess what, you don't need banks anymore, if you want to use them its your choice, but its no longer required.

they are still at the forefront of this kind of adoption but on the other hand I really question their profitability as there is not even any word on how they are selling but there is already a profit there.
On the other hand, things like this are actually pretty good and I'm quite supportive of things like this because they're always at the forefront of this I think.
with this also apart from bitcoin they will be known by most circles and that's good enough for them

Yes, fingers are crossed to see what the investment will become in the next couple of years to come, I believe this move will positively impact the economy that other countries will be referring to El Salvador for its great economic transformation.

Yes its that Bitcoin exist in decade but that 65K$ is only attain within a period of 1.5 years after this whales like El Salvador, Microstrategy and Grayscale appear and start accumulating huge chunk of Bitcoin. The price will gonna reach this high if this big player didn't enter. Its still a good thing that there's already a real reason why Bitcoin price pump compared before that pure speculation  and price is on bubble. So let's not take away the credits from big players especially El Salvador.

You will not gonna like what will happened next if this whales starts to take profit and produced a chain reaction.

Well looks like you have been quite involved in studying the deflationary economy, would love to know from you that how you intend to solve the problem of the deflationary spiral in a deflation-based economy? If I know my purchasing power would improve tomorrow, wouldn't I just defer my purchase to tomorrow every time? Basically deferring the overall economic production too, moreover, people would eventually stop spending on their "wants", will only spend on their needs. So if in such an economy, where everyone is just "Saving" and not Investing, how will economic growth take place?

Read my reply, the 3rd message, it's actually 1200 coins and they would need to gain $150k in price each year just to cover the annual aid Salvador receives from the US for regional and humanitarian assistance.
In order for Salvador to become the richest country in the world they would need to buy 1 million bitcoins and each of those to be worth 126 million because that's the total wealth, the richest country has right now, 126 trillion.


I said before, once he started throwing projects after projects it turned from a nice step forward that would trigger adoption to a race on who will be the first to land in prison with these schemes. Now, if he would be using those gains from the trust fund to buy more coins, which would raise the value of the trust allowing him to buy more coins, I have a feeling this is going to turn into a fractional reserve scenario.
As much as I dislike this guy and his schemes, unfortunately now I have to actually hope this house of cards will not collapse, with so much attention he has drawn from the media if this goes bust every single one of us is going to get a free colonoscopy from the fallout.

I don't think this move is about success or failure of Bitcoin. Bitcoin financial system is live for one decade and without support of any big economic power bitcoin mange to hit 65K$. Even if El Salvador withdraw its decision on bitcoin legal tender even then bitcoin wont be affected. Can you see any change in bitcoin price since the El Salvador announces its decision of using it as legal tender?

As they have adopted Bitcoin literally then this must be a normal occasion in their part though 21 bitcoin is a good one time Buying .

El Salvador will continue this Journey as they know how long will this be beneficial in  their part.

That is a Big number to consider ..

By playing along dangerously with the numbers, in a manner similar to fable the milkmaid and her pail:

When he announced the Pet Hospital back in October, he twitted an explanation on where the funds were coming from. The tweet (see https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1447017312893161478 and scroll down) is in Spanish, so I‘ll summarize the core parts in English (freely translated, with my minor added comments):


There we go, the perfect potential example of the former part of to fable the milkmaid and her pail. While BTC goes up, they extract USD from the trust, keeping the book value of the Trust near the legal allocated value. The problem is, that BTC could go down, and activate the second part of the fable …

People don't realize this but El Salvador will soon become the rishest country of the world. Think in a way that they are holding over 20,000 bitcoins and if each bitcoin reaches over 100k, thier county reserve will be doubled.

Don't want to be the wet blanket but it's really the El Salvador government celebrating though, not the people.

I think the actual Bitcoiners will look with envy at some of their (not immediate) neighbours. Supermarkets in Mexico and in Venezuela are accepting Bitcoin for a hefty discount. Places scattered over Argentina as well, and advocates moving all around the country teaching people and educating.

Not saying one way is better than the other, just that one way comes from grassroots action, the other viewed as another decision pushed down people's throats.

Oh damn, didn't mean to start my day so negative haha.

That's definitely correct. In some news articles I have read some 5 year plans. For example they are building Bitcoin City and a lot of other infrastructure that won't even be completed in short term.
Besides El Salvador is among the poor countries but about $60 million in bitcoin for a country with $25 billion GDP (0.24%) doesn't look that big to be honest.

In any case this is a very exciting experiment to watch over the coming years and see how this poor country is going to be like in like 5 to 10 years from now. This could provide good information for other countries with bigger and better economy to decide whether they want to start adding bitcoin to their reserves.

The bonds are one thing and that is another mess altogether
They claim to sell one million bonds and use half of the funds to build a city that is going to cost 17 billion, which is another magic trick that only Bukele knows how to perform. As for the hospital that is currently being constructed he clearly said it's going to be paid from the profits from BTC so how has he realized 4 million in profits?


It doesn't matter where the ATH was, it matters where he bought it, and wow, what a surprise, the only clue for these are his tweets.
His lowest buying point would be 46k if we would go by his tweets with a 200 bitcoin purchase, that barely negates the other buys and there is no way you could pull 4 million in profits from this tiny spread when he claimed he started construction unless he sold at the tip.
But we will never know as there is no actual proof of anything other that tweets, they could hold now 100 000 coins or 21 or none, there isn't a single official number coming from an official document, not about the purchases, the money spent, the number of transactions on Chivo, the number of funds circulating there, the amount of hash rate they have in their mining operation, nothing expect an avalanche of laser eyes.


Yeah, unfortunately, propaganda is one thing, reality is another:

Critics ask IMF to block financing for El Salvador


IMF Executive Board Approves a US$389 Million Disbursement to El Salvador


Asking for billions in loans is probably the new way of resisting, who knows.

Wikipedia indicates that Bukele will remain President of El Salvador until June 2024, approximately around the time of the next halving event. I think he will be comfortable waiting for the price to explode at some point during his tenure. If it does, he will be known as one of the boldest, shrewdest, and most remarkable Latin American politicians of all time. Michael Saylor of Microstrategy is making a similar bet, albeit in a corporate capacity.

Their goal may not be a short-term base as most people still consider 60k Bitcoin price as a low price considering how long they intend to hold their Bitcoin, so El Salvador may decide to buy at whatever price at the moment.

I believe they are going to sell $1 billion bitcoin backed bonds without actually selling any bitcoin!

Has anyone gathered all the prices they made their purchases to see if the result is profit or loss? For example 150BTC was bought at $48,670.
$52k-$54k is hardly the tip though, when price went to $70k and is currently at $48k-$49k.

I am very much sure he is using public money to buy these bitcoin. The GDP of El Salvador is 24 billion USD and GDP growth rate was -8.5% in 2020 according to world bank (source). With such economic indicators I don't think its a good move to add bitcoin in national portfolio by using public money. If there president is doing this with his own money then its non of our business.

Congratulations to the EL Salvadorian , they are the luckiest human alive , imagine how supportive their government towards bitcoin while many of us still struggling to have a small part of bitcoin because countries are prohibiting them to accumulate?
this is really a cause for celebration for the whole crypto market.
this is the start of a bigger beginning for the whole Bitcoin commity as well to the altcoin(as this will bring more adoption?
EL Salvador is making things possible because they are the one who will benefits from this.

El Salvador president does not have a good financial advisor that truly understands the working of the cryptocurrency market and that is the reason he always purchases Bitcoin at pick price, what have they been doing in the last week when the price was around 40k or above why waiting until it reaches 50k before buying each time. Anyways it is a good move but for a long time base.

Has Nayib Bukele been "behaving like a clown by purchasing Bitcoin at its peak price?" The president didn't purchase Bitcoin at its peak price.

It seems a lot are cheering for Nayib and his country when they adopted Bitcoin as a legal tender, purchased during the dip, made profit from it, responded with resistance to the IMF and the US in an unfriendly tone, made use of volcanic energy to mine Bitcoin, and so on. But since the price has fallen down, criticisms are now hurled at him.

I haven't been a fan of El Salvador risking the people's money on something that is volatile. But the failure of El Salvador in its Bitcoin ventures is probably going to be interpreted by critics as the failure of Bitcoin. I hope El Salvador succeeds.

Its good for both the country and also for the bitcoin and probably a good news in the crypto media but not really anything great. El Salvador is trying to push the cryptocurrencies to this world or they are trying to attract more crypto holders into their country?

The above by says stompix, they only have 1241 BTC.

Still, this is a good initiative for a country to have funds like BTC for it couldn't be frozen because of thier political situation where IMF is closely watching them. This could just be an assurance for the country not to go hungry unlike what happened to Afghanistan where the government's money was frozen and all people are now suffering due to it.

This is a president of a country surely he does know something is happening in the world like USSR is preparing for war.

They do have funds to allocate on buying then just let them be and its just a little bit odd that they are attaching days on several events which arent really that relevant anymore but well its their decision to make though and its good to see that they had really been trusting up Bitcoin that much.

Thing here is that they are fully aware on things in terms of risk and as they accepted it as a legal tender then it wont be surprising that they are making out these steps.

They are accumulating gradually and i wont be surprised if they would really be getting more gains as we do go further.

I'm surprised that they've already had 21,041 bitcoins acquired based on what you've said but thanks to stompix for having the actual number of how many bitcoins they've got already.
Well, what I just like about him is that he's part of the bitcoin community and likes having bitcoin for his country. Other than that, there's the personal matter of why people don't like him

There is a big possibility that any draw back in the nations' bitcoin agenda could affect the president politically, but he seems to be going all in with it as well as the proposed plan to build a bitcoin city; If that works and investors actually purchase their bitcoin bonds, they would satisfy the citizens irrespective of the market condition and also position the nation should bitcoin become more pivotal in global finance. The best of politicians (for the people) are those who do not try to play politics.

I do not follow the El Salvador news closely and a lot of the interest could just be PR, but it could benefit the bitcoin network and the citizens particularly.

as stated from the title thread, this is to celebrate the 21st day of this month for the year 2021, so if they bought last week, the idea was not served. but, it doesn't mean they can't get profit from it. unless they will sell it at a loss. they can very well get their profits later on. remember, btc will not stop at 49k level. they are one of the strong believers of bitcoin, this is why they keep on buying their BTC stash.

There is no "loss" unless you sell or buy something with it. The way you deal with money that doesn't lose value over time, is to hold your buys of unnecesary things when its "down". Simply that, save more when its down.

A few online games let you experiment this kind of economy (if the devs are not intervening like some govs do), what people do is save until they can purchase things, since there is no danger of their purchasing power plummeting overnight, which is what makes people go desperate getting loans in the first place.

So turn around your mindset, and go from the debt economy to the savings economy. Read authors from the Austrian school of economy, there lies the answer of how the world will work with this kind of money, everyone else is afraid of from their decades of dogma because they need inflation to force people get in loans, yadda yadda. Bubbles and crashes distorted markets that act on falsehoods.

Thanks to bitcoin, this current dominating trend will slowly end, and El Salvador is paving the way, so kudos to them, they deserve to reap the profits from taking this bold action others, better informed, were too afraid to do...

How exactly are they hedging their positions nicely? I imagine if were to enter a 2 year long bear market now, Nayib Bukele would be seriously screwed politically, as he'll have a lot of explaining to do to angry citizens as the government sits on a loss with their big investment while their economy is doing very poorly. Plus he seem to have bad relations with the US and IMF, so who would bail him out in the worst scenario?

Bitcoin is quite likely to go above $100,000 at some point in the future, but will Bukele still be a president when it will happen?

I think El Salvador is becoming like an example for the rest of the world that how can you manage your economy by creating crypto currency a legal tender, many people even including me had argued that it's impossible to have bitcoin as a legal tender as you will always be under a chance of loss due to fall of value, but El Salvador have handled everything very intelligently and are hedging their positions very nicely.

Am not against the move to buy Bitcoin at the moment but why didn't El Salvador purchase the Bitcoin sometime around last week when the price of the coin was down, I believe the purpose of buying is to make profits, why wait till when the price rise to almost 50k before buying.

Bukele always confirms his purchases on twitter, that's how he wants the world to know that he made purchases in Bitcoin. too flashy isn't really that great either. However openness should be more covered. Moreover, Bitcoin is the target of hackers. What I'm worried about is that El Salvador publicizes its Bitcoin holdings, the more it invites thieves to hack it. Isn't it possible. El Salvador adopted Bitcoin, well I know and we all know every corner of the news. But again, no selling will only hinder the pace of Bitcoin Price movement.
It doesn't matter at what price he buys, it's just that the impression is now like a place of ownership, no longer a place to show the effectiveness of Bitcoin payments.

The 'world's coolest dictator' aka Nayib Bukele is behaving like a clown by purchasing BTC at its peak price. There will be very little profit on purchase of BTC at 52k or 54k. The only way Nayib Bukele BTC will made any difference is if BTC hits 100k$. But what if BTC falls from 50k value to some lower value and bears take over the market? Since its not Nayib personal investment so he wont care much.

The actual number is 1241 BTC, they had 1220 prior to this.
21041 is the size in km2 of Salvador, you've made a total mess of the news.


I've always wondered how that hospital is going to be built from the profits of investing in BTC while no bitcoin will be actually sold.
And what profits when at least 200 coins were bought at $52k and 100 at $54k?
I'm starting to think that rather than buying the dip he is actually licking the tip lately.

As long as they can spend their earnings on important things the people care about (not $4,000,000 animal hospitals) I think they will do just fine.

They have done a great job of promoting bitcoin and showcasing the Lightning Network to the entire world.

As buying Bitcoin have become a wayy the El Salvador government celebrate different days, the latest was the buying of 21 Bitcoin at the price of $49,000 which dollars equivalent is $1,036,000 just to celebrate the last 21st day of the year 21.
This have brought the country total Bitcoin holding to 21,041 Bitcoins this moves have set El Salvador an hedge over other counterparts.