El Salvador’s Bitcoin city - So what are your thoughts about this one?

ABCbits

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 24, 2021, 05:37:28 AM

I believe the city’s source of income wouldn’t only come from the value added tax. That would be stupid.

The news mentioned by OP state the only tax is VAT, so it's either the news media or government is stupid.

Quote from: https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-el-salvador-bitcoin-city-7635303/

Besides, the only tax collected there will be the value-added tax, half of which will be used to pay the municipal bonds and the rest for municipal infrastructure and maintenance. Bukele pointed out there would be “no property, income or municipal taxes and the city would have zero carbon dioxide emissions,” as per a report by AFP. However, the El Salvador president didn’t provide a timeline for the city’s creation.

kryptqnick

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It's an interesting yet risky idea, and there's no way the president is supposed to be able to make such a decision single-handedly. After all, I'm assuming that's $1 billion of taxpayers' money that's to be spent here. Bukele is a young dictator, and it's dangerous when such people are in power. Sure, he's very pro-Bitcoin. But his decisions aren't supposed to be final because El Salvador is supposed to be a democracy. Also, building a city near to a volcano to benefit from mining sounds dangerous, and there's no way to know if it'll actually be able to profit enough for the benefits that will allegedly become available to people who live there. And who will be able to afford living there? Such a place will probably attract rich business owners to profit even more than they already do, while regular citizens will keep fighting hunger and barely make ends meet.

Wind_FURY

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How do tax havens collect the money required to fund their city’s services, upkeep and maintenance? I believe the city’s source of income wouldn’t only come from the value added tax. That would be stupid. But I’m a stupid pleb, and I am always wrong. DYOR.

Kakmakr

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I would have thought people would be ecstatic that you not going to get taxed to death... but looking at the responses here, I think people accepted that citizens should be taxed and double taxed and triple taxed to run a city. Roll Eyes

A lot of people missed the "tourism" angle here and this being the main goal for this city. More tourism = more income for the city and more VAT on products and services that are sold.

Let's be positive that someone are thinking "out of the box" and trying something new. Roll Eyes

Wind_FURY

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OP, if everything goes according to the Bitcoin Bonds’ proposal/plans, it would build real value for the holders of the bond, and the HODLers of Bitcoin. Plus it will actually build mining infrastructure that would increase value for the network.

Samson Mow explains, https://twitter.com/bloombergtv/status/1462941957198647301

hd49728

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El Salvador will be challenged by other countries and I don't think their journey will be smooth. They can build up their Bitcoin city, make Bitcoin legal tender in their nation but all of these are local things.

They will be challenged when they want to cooperate with other countries or international foundations. This will be big challenge and how El Salvador comes through it will be interesting.

If they succeed as a pioneer, many other countries will follow El Salvador and the trend will be unstoppable.

BlackHatCoiner

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Don't hold your breath. I have doubts for its success. This behavior and bullishness towards bitcoin shows like the president is immature. Not paying taxes is another fact which attests this very opinion. As LoyceV pointed out, it's not sustainable unless the price of bitcoin keeps increasing forever!

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 23, 2021, 03:53:45 AM

This looks like a pipe dream ... but it might just be the city of the future.

The city of the future? Why? What does it make it so significant? That they'll visit it as a community center?

Ucy

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It's Interesting. But what if that part of Nature explodes and consumes the city?
Well, the beautiful thing about Bitcoin and it's Principles is that if you stick to in times of uncertainty, you wouldn't need to worry too much.
It could be mobile or modular city the dwellers could fold and flee with if something unpleasant begins to happen.
The government probably should create a design/framework, have people build according to specifications and bring their buildings to join the rest of the city from anywhere in the world. This could make the building quicker and decentralized

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 23, 2021, 03:53:45 AM

It will also be a good option for miners to relocate to, if they ban mining in other countries. Wink

800MW geothermal energy potential on the entire country
Now looking at the 3KW s19 and multiply this by at least 1.5 million......

Quote from: LoyceV on November 23, 2021, 07:30:36 AM

That's not my dream, the country isn't safe, and "not paying taxes" doesn't sound sustainable.

Oh no, please don't tell me that everything that is advertised as free is actually still paid for by someone Grin

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 23, 2021, 08:57:58 AM

Maybe this is true but you can't really compare one billion dollars in country like El Salvador that has less than 7 million people and lower standard compared to any other modern European country or with United States.
Price of food, labor and roads in not universal in world and El Salvador have less than $400 average monthly salary now.

Steel, gas, cement, machinery are not cheaper in Salvador because the country is poorer, quite the opposite, gas is more expensive than in the US. All the parts for the previous geothermal plants were built in Italy and Japan, drilling wells is not done by locals, you need experts, and one well cost around 5-10 million.

Here is an example:
https://www.bnamericas.com/en/news/el-salvador-opens-improved-section-of-la-libertad-highway

Quote

Section II of the project, which is 10.9km long, was divided into two segments, one 5.4km long and the other 5.5km. Both segments are being paved with hydraulic concrete. The investment required to complete the two segments of section II amounts to US$40.5mn.

That's around the same prices for the eastern part of Europe.

Anyhow, as DdmrDdmr pointed out it's going to cost 17 billions, not 1 billion, or 66% of their annual GDP. Grin

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 23, 2021, 03:53:45 AM

Now, do you guys think a city like this will ever see the light of day.... and will it work? This looks like a pipe dream ... but it might just be the city of the future.

It takes much more money and time to build fully functional city, and I think that this was just a marketing move from president Bukele to attract more investments from libertarians and bitcoiners, offering them citizenship and less taxes.
I don't think that all countries will ban bitcoin mining, but this new climate change agenda will try to do everything to make life harder for bitcoiners in next few years.
Sweden made proposal to ban bitcoin mining and Norway recently supported that proposal that will probably expand to other EU countries.

Quote from: LoyceV on November 23, 2021, 07:30:36 AM

One billion dollars isn't that much, here it's barely enough to pay for a small new highway.

Maybe this is true but you can't really compare one billion dollars in country like El Salvador that has less than 7 million people and lower standard compared to any other modern European country or with United States.
Price of food, labor and roads in not universal in world and El Salvador have less than $400 average monthly salary now.

Quote from: LoyceV on November 23, 2021, 07:30:36 AM

Don't get me wrong, I hate taxes as much as anyone else, and I'd love to pay 50% less, but 10% VAT isn't going to be enough to support a safe and nice society.

Oh I hear it's very safe, warm and nice in prison Cheesy

and it's obvious that current tax and government system is corrupted and not working like it was intended.
Let's get back in history and see what happened in the end when states or rulers increased taxes slowly and constantly.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Kakmakr on November 23, 2021, 03:53:45 AM

The city will be funded with the issuance of a $1 billion Bitcoin Bond.... Shocked

One billion dollars isn't that much, here it's barely enough to pay for a small new highway.

Quote from: Kakmakr on November 23, 2021, 03:53:45 AM

A city like this can be a Bitcoiner's dream come true, with all the countries banning Bitcoin and/or taxing it to death!

I kinda expect a worse death from a $5 wrench attack. That's not my dream, the country isn't safe, and "not paying taxes" doesn't sound sustainable.
Don't get me wrong, I hate taxes as much as anyone else, and I'd love to pay 50% less, but 10% VAT isn't going to be enough to support a safe and nice society.

Wind_FURY

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I have always believed that corporations, and billionaires will HODL Bitcoin. I have always believed that nation-states will start to HODL too, if corporations HODL them. I have always believed that Bitcoin will become a global reserve currency. BUT El Salvador’s Bitcoin City built around a volcano powering it, might be one of the craziest, most positive ideas to add value for Bitcoin!

Kakmakr

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Explained: What is El Salvador’s Bitcoin city? - Source : https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-el-salvador-bitcoin-city-7635303/

Quote: " El Salvador, the only country to recognize Bitcoin as a legal tender, is planning to build an entire city based on the largest cryptocurrency Bitcoin "

The city will be funded with the issuance of a $1 billion Bitcoin Bond.... Shocked

The city will be built near the Conchagua volcano to take advantage of the country’s geothermal energy— to power both the city and cryptocurrency mining.

Imagine this .... "The residents of Bitcoin city won’t have to pay any income, property, capital gains or even payroll taxes." Roll Eyes

Now, do you guys think a city like this will ever see the light of day.... and will it work? This looks like a pipe dream ... but it might just be the city of the future.

A city like this can be a Bitcoiner's dream come true, with all the countries banning Bitcoin and/or taxing it to death! It will also be a good option for miners to relocate to, if they ban mining in other countries. Wink

Topic: El Salvador’s Bitcoin city - So what are your thoughts about this one? (Read 205 times)