Electrical Responsbility | Bitcointalksearch.org

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 2258

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Quote from: pjviitas on April 22, 2014, 08:22:26 AM

Once a few houses burn down from Bitcoin mining the media will be all over this.

Bitcoin price will take a hit over this.

Well, a house should not burn down; if you have a 200a service then your house wires should be able to handle 200a. Well, 80% continious and all that. But the problem is the local infrastructure, and if some guy's house wires burned up it's probably because his house was rated for 60-100a service and some moronic electrician put a 200a service in. Likewise if you have 15a wires and you just jam in a 20a breaker expect hilarity to ensue.

Now normally when you upgrade your panels you get this thing called a "permit" from the evil govt. That is what the utility usally looks at when deciding how big the transformer should be, not

The problem is the neighborhood, and the utility are "other people" which sometimes individuals do not take into account.

C

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: DigitalPackrat on April 21, 2014, 11:59:32 PM

According to my electric bill I am averaging 90a. I just found the weak spot in my system while running an electric close dryer while the electric hot water heater and house AC was on and melted some wires at the meter. I am still amazed that the power company hasn't said anything about my usage but they reconnected me and installed a new meter without any issues.

This kind of thing is going to start happening more and more until local safety authorities start declaring residential bitcoin mining a dangerous activity.

This is the same thing that happened to the legal marijuana grow operations.

Once a few houses burn down from Bitcoin mining the media will be all over this.

Bitcoin price will take a hit over this.

DigitalPackrat

member

Activity: 67

Merit: 10

According to my electric bill I am averaging 90a. I just found the weak spot in my system while running an electric close dryer while the electric hot water heater and house AC was on and melted some wires at the meter. I am still amazed that the power company hasn't said anything about my usage but they reconnected me and installed a new meter without any issues.

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 2258

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 21, 2014, 08:12:50 PM

Quote from: lightfoot on April 21, 2014, 08:00:16 PM

Luke wants his MTV...

What's MTV? I'm just tired of DSL.

Least you could get DSL. I was stuck with fucking ISDN (ISDL) for years till I finally got cable. I live in a literal data black hole; got a mountain of iron next to my house that sinks cell and I'm 15,100 feet from the stupid CO.

I live in a hole. Hi from the hole!

ZiG

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 21, 2014, 08:12:50 PM

Quote from: lightfoot on April 21, 2014, 08:00:16 PM

Luke wants his MTV...

What's MTV? I'm just tired of DSL.

"Music TV", buddy... available on Cable only... Grin

Edit ...: to answer your question...This is what I could find...:

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cable-television-where-file-complaints-regarding-cable-service

Hope it helps...

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: lightfoot on April 21, 2014, 08:00:16 PM

Luke wants his MTV...

What's MTV? I'm just tired of DSL.

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 2258

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Luke wants his MTV...

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: rhj12345 on April 14, 2014, 09:53:48 PM

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 13, 2014, 11:15:37 PM

Who's responsibility is the transformer? Isn't that the power companies not mine?

They said if i blow the fuse again they won't be back until morning. This is in CO, USA with excel energy.

DON'T give in to them! I live in Colorado (Arvada) they tried to make me pay to move a line that had been connected to my garage 10 years BEFORE I bought the house. They came out, put in a new pole, moved the line and tried to stick me with an $1800 bill. Fricken pound sand Xcel Energy!!!

I called the Public Utilities Commission, super nice lady, told me to write them (P.U.C.) a letter. In just two weeks I got a nice little letter back from Xcel stating they were sorry for the error in judgement and I would NOT have to pay the $1800.

So fight it!! You are paying your bill every month so they can just pony up the money and build out what you need to support your mining business.

Hope this helps.

Rob

I wonder if there's someone from the city I could complain to, to get cable... BrightHouse wants $30k to run it to me (1 mile).

joesmoe2012

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 501

Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

Quote from: ZiG on April 18, 2014, 02:51:43 AM

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 16, 2014, 11:30:42 PM

I live in a duplex with 2x200 amp meters. The line going from these two meters to the utility company is only 106 amps.

The engineer paid me a visit today and let me know that I'm using the equivalent of 10 of my neighbors. There are 12 houses on the closest transformer and i'm using 90% of it 24/7.

This is a bunch of bs.

They should charge whatever necessary in order to maintain their infrastructure.

They want $15k to upgrade it now.

Just forget it...look for a warehouse with cheaper industrial 3-Phase power...much better and cheaper than 15k... Wink

This is exactly what we have done.

jparsley

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Burn of wires as far as the power station is a bad sign(maybe old equipment). U should start looking for alternative power sources

ZiG

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 16, 2014, 11:30:42 PM

I live in a duplex with 2x200 amp meters. The line going from these two meters to the utility company is only 106 amps.

The engineer paid me a visit today and let me know that I'm using the equivalent of 10 of my neighbors. There are 12 houses on the closest transformer and i'm using 90% of it 24/7.

This is a bunch of bs.

They should charge whatever necessary in order to maintain their infrastructure.

They want $15k to upgrade it now.

Just forget it...look for a warehouse with cheaper industrial 3-Phase power...much better and cheaper than 15k... Wink

Omikifuse

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1009

Ask them to offer a cheaper electricity rate if you pay for the upgrade... Might be worth while

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 16, 2014, 11:30:42 PM

I live in a duplex with 2x200 amp meters. The line going from these two meters to the utility company is only 106 amps.

The engineer paid me a visit today and let me know that I'm using the equivalent of 10 of my neighbors. There are 12 houses on the closest transformer and i'm using 90% of it 24/7.

This is a bunch of bs.

They should charge whatever necessary in order to maintain their infrastructure.

They want $15k to upgrade it now.

If they had to put in a 50kVA transformer for every single 200A service then nobody could afford the infrastructure.

Residential power use is based on decades of data.

If you need more power then you will need to pay for upgrades.

All of these concepts are laid out by the power commission setting the rates in your area.

joesmoe2012

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 501

Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

I live in a duplex with 2x200 amp meters. The line going from these two meters to the utility company is only 106 amps.

The engineer paid me a visit today and let me know that I'm using the equivalent of 10 of my neighbors. There are 12 houses on the closest transformer and i'm using 90% of it 24/7.

This is a bunch of bs.

They should charge whatever necessary in order to maintain their infrastructure.

They want $15k to upgrade it now.

whtchocla7e

full member

Activity: 392

Merit: 116

Worlds Simplest Cryptocurrency Wallet

You're lucky I'm not your neighbor. Grin

haploid23

legendary

Activity: 812

Merit: 1002

joesmoe2012, lets look at it from another perspective: a lot of people in your neighborhood were heavy miners, and you were one of the few that didn't mine. Not only do you constantly not have power, but now the power company is making you pitch in to pay for an upgraded transformer, even though you had nothing to do with it.

Do you think this is fair? Or should all the miners be responsible for the upgrading cost?

BSIG

member

Activity: 75

Merit: 10

Vintage4X4

In rural areas, the transformer capacity upgrade is the end line customers responsibility. In areas with 25+k population, the energy company does it for almost zero cost.

fattypig

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 13, 2014, 11:15:37 PM

Okay, so the other day we burnt down the line from the power company to our house.

Today we have tripped some fuse in a transformer "can" somewhere 3 times resulting in about 150 houses being without electricity.

The linemen stopped by my place in their big truck to discuss the issue with me, telling me that they need 3 times the capacity at the transformer in order for me to pull so many amps.

Who's responsibility is the transformer? Isn't that the power companies not mine?

They said if i blow the fuse again they won't be back until morning. This is in CO, USA with excel energy.

How much power you are using?

lightfoot

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 2258

I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)

Agreed. If you burned down your house wire then either the utility is nuts or you are pulling way more current than the line is designed for. Power factor may be an issue here, but that's your problem, get a big bank of caps.

Overall the utility should provide the power they agreed to provide to your house. If you have 60a service and have hot-wired 200+ amps of miners then you should pay. No free lunch here, and as a libertarian myself you should be happy to pay for what you use.

C

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: philipma1957 on April 15, 2014, 10:25:07 PM

Quote from: Prelude on April 15, 2014, 03:00:27 PM

How many AMPs are you pulling? Do you have a standard 200A service?

I doubt they will want to upgrade hardware on their dime, you aren't a typical customer. If you were to move they would have over built, under utilized infrastructure. Time to look into commercial/industrial locals.

if you have city approved permitted 200 amp service you are entitled to use it.

now following the very conservative 75% constant run safety margin you are allowed to pull 150 amps 24/7/365. that would be 18000 watts non stop.

of course your problem may be the city/town did not permit 200 amp service or you may draw more then 150/200 amps.

good luck fighting them.

put another way " if you are using under 75% of your permitted amp rating 24/7/365 you should be allowed to get that. "

Ask the power company to show you in writing that the statement above is wrong. if you are in an area wide power shortage brownout they can shut you down.

but in non emergency conditions they should be required to provide what your city/town permit rates your home for.

My home has 150 amp 220 volt service which is split into 2 110 volt rails. other then one 40 amp fuse for my ac at 220 volt.

I run 6000 watts 24/7/365 for mining in the winter and about 2300 watts in the summer

To begin with, your service size (main disconnect rating in your home) and power availability (transformer capacity) are two completely different things.

The service in your home is governed by the safety authority (electrical inspector)

The transformer capacity is governed by the power utility (power commission)

What the OP is talking about is power availability.

The power utility is only obligated to provide power quantities based on decades of data or in other words "typical" power quantities.
-For a gas heated home this is between 3-5kW
-For an electric heated home this is between 5-8kW

If you are running enough equipment to burn down service wire then you are playing a dangerous game which may end up in any of the following scenarios:
1. Burning down your home
2. Being paid a visit by the local electrical inspector
3. Unforseen costs from the power utility

I would take the advice of one of the other posters and apply for a service alteration to heavy up your service.

Please be advised that it won't be cheap.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8899

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Prelude on April 15, 2014, 03:00:27 PM

How many AMPs are you pulling? Do you have a standard 200A service?

I doubt they will want to upgrade hardware on their dime, you aren't a typical customer. If you were to move they would have over built, under utilized infrastructure. Time to look into commercial/industrial locals.

if you have city approved permitted 200 amp service you are entitled to use it.

now following the very conservative 75% constant run safety margin you are allowed to pull 150 amps 24/7/365. that would be 18000 watts non stop.

of course your problem may be the city/town did not permit 200 amp service or you may draw more then 150/200 amps.

good luck fighting them.

put another way " if you are using under 75% of your permitted amp rating 24/7/365 you should be allowed to get that. "

Ask the power company to show you in writing that the statement above is wrong. if you are in an area wide power shortage brownout they can shut you down.

but in non emergency conditions they should be required to provide what your city/town permit rates your home for.

My home has 150 amp 220 volt service which is split into 2 110 volt rails. other then one 40 amp fuse for my ac at 220 volt.

I run 6000 watts 24/7/365 for mining in the winter and about 2300 watts in the summer

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: Prelude on April 15, 2014, 03:00:27 PM

How many AMPs are you pulling? Do you have a standard 200A service?

I doubt they will want to upgrade hardware on their dime, you aren't a typical customer. If you were to move they would have over built, under utilized infrastructure. Time to look into commercial/industrial locals.

+1

Prelude

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1000

How many AMPs are you pulling? Do you have a standard 200A service?

I doubt they will want to upgrade hardware on their dime, you aren't a typical customer. If you were to move they would have over built, under utilized infrastructure. Time to look into commercial/industrial locals.

rhj12345

full member

Activity: 138

Merit: 100

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 13, 2014, 11:15:37 PM

Who's responsibility is the transformer? Isn't that the power companies not mine?

They said if i blow the fuse again they won't be back until morning. This is in CO, USA with excel energy.

DON'T give in to them! I live in Colorado (Arvada) they tried to make me pay to move a line that had been connected to my garage 10 years BEFORE I bought the house. They came out, put in a new pole, moved the line and tried to stick me with an $1800 bill. Fricken pound sand Xcel Energy!!!

I called the Public Utilities Commission, super nice lady, told me to write them (P.U.C.) a letter. In just two weeks I got a nice little letter back from Xcel stating they were sorry for the error in judgement and I would NOT have to pay the $1800.

So fight it!! You are paying your bill every month so they can just pony up the money and build out what you need to support your mining business.

Hope this helps.

Rob

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: joesmoe2012 on April 14, 2014, 12:34:55 AM

I've already requested additional power from them, but they are taking their sweet time. If the transformer serves dozens or hundreds of houses, why would that be my responsibility?

Running bitcoin miners is not considered normal load growth

joesmoe2012

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 501

Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

I've already requested additional power from them, but they are taking their sweet time. If the transformer serves dozens or hundreds of houses, why would that be my responsibility?

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: pjviitas on April 14, 2014, 12:29:04 AM

It is the customers responsibility to inform the power utility if their power requirements exceed that of a typical residence.

I run into this problem all the time at work with grow ops.

And BTW any increase in transformer size should be on your dime.

pjviitas

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

It is the customers responsibility to inform the power utility if their power requirements exceed that of a typical residence.

I run into this problem all the time at work with grow ops.

joesmoe2012

hero member

Activity: 882

Merit: 501

Ching-Chang;Ding-Dong

Okay, so the other day we burnt down the line from the power company to our house.

Today we have tripped some fuse in a transformer "can" somewhere 3 times resulting in about 150 houses being without electricity.

The linemen stopped by my place in their big truck to discuss the issue with me, telling me that they need 3 times the capacity at the transformer in order for me to pull so many amps.

Who's responsibility is the transformer? Isn't that the power companies not mine?

They said if i blow the fuse again they won't be back until morning. This is in CO, USA with excel energy.

Topic: Electrical Responsbility (Read 2229 times)