Electrum 4.1.5 with New Feature Slip39 Seed

nc50lc

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Quote from: Chikito on July 26, 2021, 08:27:37 AM

Just the warning, Slip and BIP, it's the same number of 39, but it's different from each other, I tried Import slip39 seed into bip39 seed, I got a different address. I put the master secret key slip into bip39 entropy using Iancoleman.

That's because SLIP39's "Master Secret" is equivalent to BIP39's "BIP39 seed" (below passphrase).
I don't know what's the motivation in using "0039" though, maybe because it's intended to replace BIP39.

In BIP39, the 'entropy' is used to generate the 'mnemonic sentence' (seed phrase), then the 'binary seed' (seed) is generated from the mnemonic sentence - (learmebitcoin - BIP39)
while in SLIP39, the 'binary seed' itself is used to generate the mnemonic sentences (slip-0039).

Now in iancoleman's tool, try to paste BIP39's "BIP39 seed" to SLIP39's "Master Secret" and it should generate the same set of addresses when restored.

Chikito

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That have warning also when replacing new one

I don't know how much maximum is shared on Trezor, when using Iancoleman the maximum share is 16.

I tried 16 shared and 5 thresholds, Which allowed for the random seed also and showed me the order.

when I try to create 1 shared and 1 Threshold, I got

256 bits = 33 word
128 bits = 20 word

All the same how many shared and Threshold.

That is all different with BIP39.

256 bits = 24 word
128 bits = 12 word

Just the warning, Slip and BIP, it's the same number of 39, but it's different from each other, I tried Import slip39 seed into bip39 seed, I got a different address. I put the master secret key slip into bip39 entropy using Iancoleman.

pooya87

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Quote from: dkbit98 on July 25, 2021, 12:35:28 PM

I see there is one more change in GUI for latest version of Electrum, and they added "funded or unused" filter option to Addresses tab.

Electrum had these filters in Addresses tab for a very long time. You can enable/disable them from your menu "Wallet > Addresses > Filter"

dkbit98

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It's not easy to follow all Electrum updates, but good thing is they are very active and following development of hardware wallets, even if I am not a fan of Shamir Backup, some people obviously use it.
We talked about it before and I compared it with superior Multisig option in one of my topics Multisig VS Shamir Secret Sharing.

I see there is one more change in GUI for latest version of Electrum, and they added "funded or unused" filter option to Addresses tab.

o_e_l_e_o

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It's a really nice implementation.

I created a test 3-of-5 SLIP39 set up using Ian Coleman's tool, and then tried to recover it on Electrum. As soon as you enter the first share, Electrum shows you how many shares you have entered, how many you need to enter in total, how many you have to choose from, and also shows you the first words from each of the remaining shares so you don't get mixed up and enter the same share twice. This is what it looks like:

Note the warning as discussed above: It allows recovery of SLIP39 phrases, but not generation of them. But the more implementations of something the better, as it gives users more options for recovery and provides more redundancy should Trezor suddenly disappear. Although I also agree that once Taproot is implemented, meaning multi-sig transactions are small and indistinguishable, then SLIP39 offers no real benefits over multi-sig.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Husires on July 25, 2021, 03:25:08 AM

Does this mean that it is possible to create a Slip39 wallet or only import it?
This option is very useful with the increase of ordinary individuals who use Bitcoin and the method of memorizing them, which is often by dividing the twelve words into two or three parts and hoping that they are all safe.

I second the sentiments above. Electrum deliberately chose not to implement BIP39 generation into their wallet but only supports importing it. It is designed to dissuade people from continuing to use that as well, either intentionally or not. That is also a reason why SLIP39 support was added, but not the generation of the shares. Shamir Secret Sharing suffers from several shortcomings and it is nothing a simple Multisig can't do, Taproot would make this even better. We've discussed SSS several times on the forum and the conclusion is that it isn't particularly useful for most users.

pooya87

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Quote from: Husires on July 25, 2021, 03:25:08 AM

Does this mean that it is possible to create a Slip39 wallet or only import it?

It looks like this is only letting you recover your wallet if you already had a SLIP39 scheme created elsewhere.

Quote

This option is very useful with the increase of ordinary individuals who use Bitcoin and the method of memorizing them, which is often by dividing the twelve words into two or three parts and hoping that they are all safe.

I don't think so. The concept is flawed in my opinion. This type of splitting is meant to be used for secret sharing and not for security purposes. Encryption is still the way to go if someone wants security. Additionally memorizing things is never a good idea because unless you have an eidetic memory you can't rely on your memory alone to not betray you in the future. Not to mention accidents and such that could damage your memory.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Husires on July 25, 2021, 03:25:08 AM

Does this mean that it is possible to create a Slip39 wallet or only import it?
-snip-

Can only import
Just like BIP39 seed phrase, Electrum can import but can't produce SLIP39 seed phrases.

Husires

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Does this mean that it is possible to create a Slip39 wallet or only import it?
This option is very useful with the increase of ordinary individuals who use Bitcoin and the method of memorizing them, which is often by dividing the twelve words into two or three parts and hoping that they are all safe.

I'm still using electrum-4.0.9 but that would give me a good reason to update it.

Charles-Tim

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One thing I like about SLIP39, Shamir's secret sharing is that it is not limited to only seed phrase, it can also be used for any word or code for encryption creating M-of-N secrets while the M is enough for the seed phrase recovery.

Back to the topic of discussion. But, it is worth knowing that the SLIP39 of the seed recovery feature on Electrum is only supported on the desktop Electrum 4.1.5 version, not yet available on the mobile version as I did not see the feature on the mobile version 4.1.5.

Chikito

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What is that?,

If you are familiar with Trezor, T model use it. https://blog.trezor.io/https-blog-trezor-io-dev-corner-shamir-backup-guide-5f9957ff1008

Now, we can recovery slip39 seed from Trezor T into electrum.

If you haven't Trezor to testing, you can check slip39 > https://iancoleman.io/slip39/

[1]. https://github.com/iancoleman/slip39/issues/1
[2]. https://docs.trezor.io/trezor-firmware/core/misc/slip0039.html

Topic: Electrum 4.1.5 with New Feature Slip39 Seed (Read 169 times)