Electrum Questions | Bitcointalksearch.org

Abdussamad

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Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 04:43:08 PM

Quote from: Abdussamad on July 28, 2017, 11:47:53 AM

When you set a password the secrets in your wallet file are always encrypted. Do you understand? Setting a password always means encryption. The only difference with that "Encrypt wallet file" checkbox is that you can't even view your wallet's transactions and balances until you enter a password to decrypt the file. Why would you want that? Because some people receive money to a wallet without knowing the password or seed of it so they end up losing their money that way. To prevent scenarios like that the developer ThomasV created this whole wallet file encryption option so you can't even view your wallet until you enter the password.

I had to read through your post a couple of times, but I think I see what you mean. If you set encrypt, Electrum will then "challenge" you to enter a password before any transactions or addresses are visible on the wallet, to make sure you know the password and can later send bitcoin you received. So "encryption" option is not just for scrambling all the wallet data in the file to prevent others from viewing, it's making sure you don't receive bitcoin, and later are stuck unable to re-transmit them, because you didn't know the password.

Yes that's for full wallet encryption. However just setting a password and choosing not to encrypt the wallet file will still encrypt your wallet secrets i.e. the seed + any imported private keys.

Itty Bitty

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Quote from: Abdussamad on July 28, 2017, 11:47:53 AM

When you set a password the secrets in your wallet file are always encrypted. Do you understand? Setting a password always means encryption. The only difference with that "Encrypt wallet file" checkbox is that you can't even view your wallet's transactions and balances until you enter a password to decrypt the file. Why would you want that? Because some people receive money to a wallet without knowing the password or seed of it so they end up losing their money that way. To prevent scenarios like that the developer ThomasV created this whole wallet file encryption option so you can't even view your wallet until you enter the password.

I had to read through your post a couple of times, but I think I see what you mean. If you set encrypt, Electrum will then "challenge" you to enter a password before any transactions or addresses are visible on the wallet, to make sure you know the password and can later send bitcoin you received. So "encryption" option is not just for scrambling all the wallet data in the file to prevent others from viewing, it's making sure you don't receive bitcoin, and later are stuck unable to re-transmit them, because you didn't know the password.

Abdussamad

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Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 08:59:23 AM

Wow, amazing response HCP, 5 stars.

A couple of follow-up questions.

Does the bump up in security from password, to password+encrypted come for free, or do we have to do extra work to get it (an extra password to remember?)

What kind of extra percentage (approximate) security would you say encryption gives over just password? 10%, 30%, negligible, etc...

I mean if someone got hold of my computer, and my password (maybe brute forced while computer is at shop being repaired) would the fact that the entire file is encrypted offer any more protection if some evil computer repairman has figured out my password? Don't really want to just press encrypt until I know what this offers, and what's expected of me to maintain things this way. Thanks.

When you set a password the secrets in your wallet file are always encrypted. Do you understand? Setting a password always means encryption. The only difference with that "Encrypt wallet file" checkbox is that you can't even view your wallet's transactions and balances until you enter a password to decrypt the file. Why would you want that? Because some people receive money to a wallet without knowing the password or seed of it so they end up losing their money that way. To prevent scenarios like that the developer ThomasV created this whole wallet file encryption option so you can't even view your wallet until you enter the password.

Itty Bitty

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Great answer, thanks.

Top notch, this Electrum forum

ranochigo

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Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 08:59:23 AM

Does the bump up in security from password, to password+encrypted come for free, or do we have to do extra work to get it (an extra password to remember?)

No extra password, just have to check the box for it.

Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 08:59:23 AM

What kind of extra percentage (approximate) security would you say encryption gives over just password? 10%, 30%, negligible, etc...

Th encryption basically means that people have to get your password to see the address. If the whole wallet file isn't encrypted, they can still see your transactions but will need a password to see your seeds and xpriv [+spending coin].

Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 08:59:23 AM

I mean if someone got hold of my computer, and my password (maybe brute forced while computer is at shop being repaired) would the fact that the entire file is encrypted offer any more protection if some evil computer repairman has figured out my password? Don't really want to just press encrypt until I know what this offers, and what's expected of me to maintain things this way. Thanks.

No. The repairman can just decrypt the wallet and spend it, whether you encrypted the whole wallet or just the seed and xpriv. Encrypting the whole wallet doesn't allow them to see your addresses so they have lesser chance of trying.

If you are just repairing your computer, you should ask if you can take your harddrive out. At the very very least, you should have had a seed backup and transfer your Bitcoins out of the wallet.

Itty Bitty

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Wow, amazing response HCP, 5 stars.

A couple of follow-up questions.

Does the bump up in security from password, to password+encrypted come for free, or do we have to do extra work to get it (an extra password to remember?)

What kind of extra percentage (approximate) security would you say encryption gives over just password? 10%, 30%, negligible, etc...

I mean if someone got hold of my computer, and my password (maybe brute forced while computer is at shop being repaired) would the fact that the entire file is encrypted offer any more protection if some evil computer repairman has figured out my password? Don't really want to just press encrypt until I know what this offers, and what's expected of me to maintain things this way. Thanks.

HCP

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A wallet file with no password has seed and "Master Private Key" (aka xprv) in plaintext:

Setting a password will encrypt the seed and xprv inside the wallet file that is stored on your computer... But the wallet file itself will still be in "plaintext" (Note how the seed is "random letters" and xprv doesn't start with "xprv"):

Ticking the "encrypt wallet file" checkbox when you set a password will then encrypt the entire wallet file as well:

Note: the data stored in the "keystore" section in Electrum will depend on the wallet type and how it was created (For instance, it doesn't store imported BIP39 seeds, only the xprv... and if you create a wallet based on imported private keys instead of a seed... all the private keys are stored... but the same rules apply... No Password = Everything plaintext, password = import stuff encrypted in plaintext wallet... password + encrypt file = EVERYTHING encrypted Wink

)

Itty Bitty

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Quote from: ranochigo on July 28, 2017, 03:22:09 AM

No. As far as I can tell, Electrum does not specifically store the individual private key of the addresses. The xpriv and seeds are stored in the wallet file, unencrypted unless you decide to encrypt the wallet file using the function in Electrum.

Electrum should be recalculating your private key from the xpriv, given the structure of the wallet file and the fact that it takes sometime for them to load the export dialog.

Thanks for the answer, that was more what I was looking for.

As kind of a noob, I have to say I dislike the word "unencrypted"

When you write "unencrypted", my noob mind is taking the "crypt" part of the word, and translating that to "everything in my wallet is being coded somehow by this magic encrypt everything" function.

As far as I can tell, there is no magic "encrypt everything" function. All that is offered by the software is "set a password", as far as I can tell.

Is this what you mean by the wallet being "unencrypted unless you decide to encrypt". Just setting a password? Or is there something else that needs to be done to make this very sensitive wallet information "encrypted",as you describe. Thanks again.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 28, 2017, 03:02:18 AM

Thanks for the reply, and I appreciate the info, but that's not quite what I was looking for.

I'd like to know if now, with my Electrum wallet NOT running, is there somewhere on my computer that my private keys are being stored - or are they not being stored anywhere right now, and only get "re-calculated" when I start running Electrum again. Thanks.

No. As far as I can tell, Electrum does not specifically store the individual private key of the addresses. The xpriv and seeds are stored in the wallet file, unencrypted unless you decide to encrypt the wallet file using the function in Electrum.

Electrum should be recalculating your private key from the xpriv, given the structure of the wallet file and the fact that it takes sometime for them to load the export dialog.

Itty Bitty

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Quote from: Coin-Keeper on July 27, 2017, 06:16:21 PM

Before doing anything else make sure your wallet file is encrypted. Your SEED is exposed if you are running Electrum without encryption and if your computer is online that is a major security risk for you. With Electrum if you have your SEED you can always generate the private keys to any address in the wallet matching the seed that created it. Very simple.

Thanks for the reply, and I appreciate the info, but that's not quite what I was looking for.

I'd like to know if now, with my Electrum wallet NOT running, is there somewhere on my computer that my private keys are being stored - or are they not being stored anywhere right now, and only get "re-calculated" when I start running Electrum again. Thanks.

Coin-Keeper

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Quote from: Itty Bitty on July 27, 2017, 02:47:44 PM

Also kind of a noob question, security related.

After downloading Electrum wallet to my PC, and setting up a new wallet, (and maybe transact from this new wallet), after I close my wallet, are my private keys somewhere, in some file, on my hard drive? Or are they recalculated from the seed each time I start up Electrum wallet .exe file, and therefore not stored anywhere on my computer in between usage? Thanks in advance for any info.

Before doing anything else make sure your wallet file is encrypted. Your SEED is exposed if you are running Electrum without encryption and if your computer is online that is a major security risk for you. With Electrum if you have your SEED you can always generate the private keys to any address in the wallet matching the seed that created it. Very simple.

Itty Bitty

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Also kind of a noob question, security related.

After downloading Electrum wallet to my PC, and setting up a new wallet, (and maybe transact from this new wallet), after I close my wallet, are my private keys somewhere, in some file, on my hard drive? Or are they recalculated from the seed each time I start up Electrum wallet .exe file, and therefore not stored anywhere on my computer in between usage? Thanks in advance for any info.

ranochigo

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Quote from: btc78 on July 27, 2017, 08:41:14 AM

Another question:

How can you determine that a address is part of the multiple addresses that Electrum has generate?

You can look for it in the address tab. If it's there, then you are fine.

Else, you can go to console and type ismine("ADDRESS"), replacing the ADDRESS with the address that you have been given. If Electrum gave you that address, you are probably fine.

Quote from: bobq on July 27, 2017, 08:55:21 AM

I am new to Electrum. I'm moving out of Multibit. I have read someone discouraging the use of Electrum portable. Does is pose any problems?

No. The main issue is with the security if you are planning to use it on multiple, potentially insecure computers.

Quote from: bobq on July 27, 2017, 08:55:21 AM

And finally: any particulary suggestions on how to behave for the August 1 event?

I'm not really sure about the Android problem, probably has to do with some incompatibility.

As with the August 1, the fork is unlikely to happen at this point and even if there will be a fork, it is likely to be insignificant. You have access to your private keys so you will definitely be fine.

bobq

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I am new to Electrum. I'm moving out of Multibit. I have read someone discouraging the use of Electrum portable. Does is pose any problems?
I have installed the android version on TWO devices of mine. but in both of them it crashes without starting. Why is that?
And finally: any particulary suggestions on how to behave for the August 1 event?

btc78

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Another question:

How can you determine that a address is part of the multiple addresses that Electrum has generate?

Abdussamad

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Quote from: btc78 on July 24, 2017, 05:29:16 AM

I'm using version 2.7.18 and I have a noob question. Why I'm seeing a lot of Addresses on the Receiving? And what does it mean? can I used those different address to accept payment? Thank you in advance.

https://bitcoinelectrum.com/frequently-asked-questions/#why-does-electrum-give-me-a-different-address-everytime

btc78

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Quote from: BTCLovingDude on July 24, 2017, 05:42:27 AM

all those addresses are yours and you can use anyone that you like.

electrum is a deterministic or HD wallet which uses a master private key to generate all these addresses. you back up that key as your seed.
there are so many of them to give you flexibility to use each for receiving new payments and prevent Address Reuse

Ok. Thank you for the answer. Make sense to me now.

BTCLovingDude

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all those addresses are yours and you can use anyone that you like.

electrum is a deterministic or HD wallet which uses a master private key to generate all these addresses. you back up that key as your seed.
there are so many of them to give you flexibility to use each for receiving new payments and prevent Address Reuse

btc78

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Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!

I'm using version 2.7.18 and I have a noob question. Why I'm seeing a lot of Addresses on the Receiving? And what does it mean? can I used those different address to accept payment? Thank you in advance.

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