Electrum to introduce coinjoins using Nostr

pooya87

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2023, 11:56:11 AM

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 29, 2023, 03:53:24 AM

Electrum isn't advertising itself as privacy focused

So what?
You use your own node and you have privacy, you don't need electrum to tell you that.

Privacy has to be the default option if we want the solution used by majority of users to offer actual privacy. Otherwise imagine if your mixed transaction contained 20 inputs 19 of which came from users who don't care or don't know how to improve their privacy and for exampled connected to a honeypot server to sync on clear-net! Obviously the 20th one that followed all privacy improving steps has no privacy and the mixed transaction won't offer any privacy whatsoever.

This is the same criticism that exists about altcoins that claim to offer privacy but it is not the default option.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2023, 11:56:11 AM

Joinstr sounds very interesting and I think it's going to be easier to use it than joinmarket.

Definitely easier. Joinmarket's installation is more complicated and time consuming than an Electrum extension or a Whirlpool mixing service accessible from Sparrow.

Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2023, 11:56:11 AM

You use your own node and you have privacy, you don't need electrum to tell you that.

That's exactly my point. I can gain privacy by running my own node, mixing, using coin control etc., but Electrum had always had neutral stance on privacy. If they become pro-privacy, then they should then be criticized if they do mistakes regarding that. And as far as the history of that niche software is concerned, they're probably going to be criticized often.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Yamane_Keto on November 29, 2023, 02:21:14 AM

The problem is that Coordination is nostr only, so it offers questionable decentralization, just like Mixin Safe: A Convenient and Decentralized Multisig, which was hacked several months ago.

You can't really compare Nostr with Mixin Safe that was fully centralized with data kept on cloud servers, and they use shitcoin blockchain ecosystem.
I was one of the people who reviewed Mixin Safe and straight away I said that this is unsecure system that is just waiting to be exploited.

Joinstr sounds very interesting and I think it's going to be easier to use it than joinmarket.
Anyone can be a coordinator but question is who is going to do it.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 29, 2023, 03:53:24 AM

Electrum isn't advertising itself as privacy focused

So what?
You use your own node and you have privacy, you don't need electrum to tell you that.

BlackHatCoiner

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Nostr is relatively new, and I'll have to agree with Peter Todd's criticism here. Coinjoins are a sensitive situation. I wouldn't attempt to use software that doesn't officially provide this functionality in a private manner. For example, in Whirlpool, you get to connect via Tor in a known coordinator, with extensively reviewed software and grasped theoretical background.

Electrum isn't advertising itself as privacy focused, and I don't want to make false claims and conclusions, so I'll wait more about this rather than endorse it.

Yamane_Keto

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For those looking for more details about how it works, you can read the link below https://docs.joinstr.xyz/overview/how-does-it-work and here is a comparison between joinstr and other coinjoin implementations https://docs.joinstr.xyz/overview/difference-between-joinstr-and-other-coinjoin-implementations

It looks like all they did was uses ALL| ANYONECANPAY SIGHASH flag and then record the output first, which allows it to be published as a nostr event and distribute the fees to everyone.

The problem is that Coordination is nostr only, so it offers questionable decentralization, just like Mixin Safe: A Convenient and Decentralized Multisig, which was hacked several months ago.

Pmalek

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The Electrum team made a public post on Twitter that they are working on introducing coinjoins for the Electrum wallet using Nostr.
They refer to it as decentralized coinjoins. They have provided a test transaction on testnet: https://mempool.space/signet/tx/0cf53abb348a1835b7f586c0c669598bacf746053bc810b73d6ebc37c4d6624c

Nostr is supposedly a decentralized social network that is censorship-resistant.
But Peter Todd quickly commented that Nostr isn't decentralized because new relays can't join the network.

Since we don't have a thread for this yet, we can discuss it here.

https://twitter.com/ElectrumWallet/status/1729501537578152034
https://nostr.com/

Topic: Electrum to introduce coinjoins using Nostr (Read 131 times)