Energy used to mine Bitcoin with other industries.

jaberwock

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

Looking at the data, we can see that Bitcoin accounts for only the smallest share of carbon footprint/environmental pollution and global warming.
All the reasons they gave were to hide their fears, fear of dominance, out of control ... Fear of Bitcoin.

But are electric cars really friendly to the environment? Because, they still have built in batteries on them right? And then once it runs out, they will still be needing an electricity to charge it. Now that is not far from mining btc's as it also uses electricity. There are some model of those cars which has a solar panel to charge but I think its power is too low and what if there is no sunlight? About the esports and its effect to the young generations, I think that was a different matter anymore.

Better if you can create a separate thread for it as that will be an interesting topic but not all times there are tournaments but all the times there are factories which released hazards that are harmful to the environment. They shouldn't put all the blame to btc mining.

Doan9269

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Quote from: Spack17 on June 12, 2022, 01:56:58 PM

It takes energy to produce everything in the world. It would be the same if something else was made, not Bitcoin.It might even have been more

I still don't know what they stand to gain with all the claim about bitcoin mining energy consumption and the resulting environmental impact compared to other sectors of the economy and government centralized industries, an ordinary vehicle exhaust combustion is not environmentally friendly to human health because of the carbon emissions among other loads and tones of energies required in other sectors and industries especially that of oil and gas exploration, yet government never consider these environmental hazard and find a solution to them, bitcoin that is ordinarily done in an enclosed mining rigs with less or none environmental hazard has the highest challenge and threat all because of it decentralization, are we to assume our governments are greedy to a certain extent or what.

BIT-BENDER

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It’s not a new thing that the government leaders are always quick to use hold Bitcoin responsible for all it faults only even some which they exaggerate, for instance before Bitcoin where created, financial crimes like cyber crimes, money laundering, humanitarian crimes like terrorism human trafficking and so on all exited but now the government who doesn’t want Crypto-currency existence has shown to use see Bitcoin as the powering source for all this crimes am not suppressed if they blow the energy consumption of Bitcoin mining out of proportion.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

They are continuously promoting Esports by arranging international tournaments and making a dumb young generation. So, they are not concerned about the environment at all, things are something different here.

Looking at the data, we can see that Bitcoin accounts for only the smallest share of carbon footprint/environmental pollution and global warming.
All the reasons they gave were to hide their fears, fear of dominance, out of control ... Fear of Bitcoin.

I doubt these cries are because they wanted to reduce the carbon footprint, these are just cries to get attention. Logically there are other things that are creating a much bigger carbon footprint and they wont raise their concerns against them but cryptocurrency space is a trending one and hence you hear more voices talking about global warming and attaching BTCitcoin mining to it.

uneng

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All the attacks bitcoin suffer from economists, environmentalists, politicians, banksters are nonsense. People should have the right to use disponible energy (since it's abundant) as they wish without backlashes from organized groups and monopolies. If the energy isn't going to be used to mine bitcoins, it's going to be used somewhere else or even wasted in some cases, so bitcoin isn't polluting anything at all that wasn't going to be polluted already...

On the other hand, I think some sense of proportion is needed. You can't compare the whole energy used in determined sector, like marine or aeronautics, to the energy demanded by the mining sector of a single cryptocurrency. The best comparative scenario is to put bitcoin mining side by side with global banking system. On that part the research nailed the facts and disclosed the whole hypocrisy of people who insist on the narrative bitcoin is destroying the environment.

Spack17

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It is one of the nonsense that is constantly brought forward by people who want to defame Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. This is not just a special case for Bitcoin. Whatever people want to denigrate, they can use ordinary things as an excuse. It takes energy to produce everything in the world. It would be the same if something else was made, not Bitcoin.It might even have been more. There is very little environmental pollution in the production of Bitcoin. We can see this from the data as well.

m2017

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

~snip

It always seemed to me that the environmental damage attributed to mining is an exaggeration and an attempt to manipulate people's opinions in order to demonize bitcoin. After seeing your post with specific numbers, I was convinced of this.

Henrobakkara

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Quote from: worle1bm on June 12, 2022, 12:18:30 AM

They have always presented this as big issue for the bitcoin like it's dangerous for the environmental concerns and it should not be encouraged but will ignore all other industries that pollute the environment more then btc because they have authority over them and can charge them with heavy tax impositions.

There is no denying in the fact that btc consumes lot of energy but it's also providing something useful in the market which provides financial freedom to people so it's worth it but they always fail to understand it as the can't control it but can't stop it's growth as well.

I hear you and totally agree with what you are saying concerning environmental pollution. Bitcoin mining doesn't even come close to what some other industries do in terms of environmental pollution, I was watching a local news channel just 2 days ago and the was a program about a whole community where the groundwater (boreholes/wells) has been polluted by oil spillage miles away and we are not even going to get into the power consumption of those oil companies.

yazher

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We are not ignorant of this matter when we talk about mainstream media, they always have hidden agenda and now we already know what kind of negative news they are feeding the people about bitcoins and the crypto miners. Now that they have some bullets or what they call fake news, they will keep putting it in the headlines until they are proven wrong and that's when they think of another way to fool people against their false claims.

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Quote from: hd49728 on June 11, 2022, 10:04:57 PM

Bitcoi mining is greener, more environmental friendly, less polluted than other industries. If you read enough researches, from different sources you will know this fact.

If someone was interested in the facts, then everyone would have long ago stopped discussing something that is more than a trivial matter - because Bitcoin has not created problems that manifest as drastic changes in the environment. All of these problems have been created by human greed through decades of ruthless destruction of the entire planet - making people one of the dumbest inhabitants of this planet ever.

Bitcoin is therefore a perfect target for attacks as it completely deviates from the established and imposed norms to which people have been subjected over the past hundred years, although this process takes much longer if you look at history. Although the world's bureaucrats do not acknowledge this directly, they see Bitcoin as a virus that must be fought by all means, and 2009 was the year in which their pandemic began.

The agenda of excessive energy consumption and environmental pollution is a fabricated lie, but if you keep repeating it as they do, people will accept it as true - at least the silent majority who believes everything they see and hear in the mainstream media.

worle1bm

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They have always presented this as big issue for the bitcoin like it's dangerous for the environmental concerns and it should not be encouraged but will ignore all other industries that pollute the environment more then btc because they have authority over them and can charge them with heavy tax impositions.

There is no denying in the fact that btc consumes lot of energy but it's also providing something useful in the market which provides financial freedom to people so it's worth it but they always fail to understand it as the can't control it but can't stop it's growth as well.

hd49728

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Bitcoi mining is greener, more environmental friendly, less polluted than other industries. If you read enough researches, from different sources you will know this fact.

https://endthefud.org/energy
Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument.

Moreover, Bitcoin has more utilities than mining, Proof of Work, transactions, decentralization, having your own bank, etc. This tweet enlightens you about wider missions of Bitcoin.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1535386280288145408?t=cI1NOM_yFejxq4yrl7cI2g&s=19

Gyfts

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I'm not sure why you're comparing Bitcoin energy consumption to the airline industry or marine transport. Those have nothing to do with financial systems. I agree with the sentiment that Bitcoin is not as energy demanding as other financial systems, it serves no use making false equivalencies.

Ebede

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People who mine Bitcoin consume a lot of electricity energy but I don't know if mining of Bitcoin wil a lot of pollution or pollutant in the environment the mining industry is situated so therefore I think the only thing that can cause pollution which can affect human life is all this hyrocarbon companies that use also many raw materials like natural resources such as crude oil and other things that causes woman Cancer throat cancer and acidic rain

Doan9269

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

We do not deny that mining Bitcoin also creates a large amount of carbon into the environment and somewhat pollutes the environment, but it is nothing if we compare it with other industries.

We all know quite alright that bitcoin mining cannot be compared with other sectors and industries that has highest numbers of fossils fuel consumption burning infiltrating the environment with toxic emissions, i think one of the factors that can reduce government pressure on bitcoin mining ban base on the energy challenge is for them to maintain a rapid payment on levied tax maybe there may be good outcome on approach, and the earlier the better for the government to realise that bitcoin cannot be banned by them if they cannot be fully responsible for every individuals well being of financial and economical needs.

Finding a way out through the relentless efforts of Satoshi Nakamoto should be worthy of acknowledgement as a hero and legend of freedom and humans right personality and be celebrated, with time when all mining activities go green with the use of renewable energies then maybe government would have realized the more need bitcoin mining may not adhere to paying them tax again as before.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 09, 2022, 05:20:40 PM

Now compare utility of Bitcoin and other industries. Gaming brings entertainment to billions of people. Banking industry is the fundament of finance in every country. Data centers make the modern Internet possible. Without transportation, global economy wouldn't be possible. If any of those things were gone, it would be a catastrophe to humanity as a whole. If Bitcoin would be gone, it would only affect some tens of millions of people who use it as an investment. For governments that want to reduce emissions by their country, banning crypto mining could be a very low-hanging fruit.

For many of the other industries listed in the OP, there are no real alternatives. With bitcoin, if mining were to be "banned", users of bitcoin could move to PoS coins, or they could use the fiat system.

Further, with the exception of the gaming industry, the electric consumption on a per-capita basis cannot easily be measured because said industry affects nearly the entire population.

While I do agree that bitcoin does consume a lot of electricity, it also uses electricity purchased on the free market (to the extent that electric markets are free), and if electric prices become sufficiently high, miners will turn off their equipment.

darewaller

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By the looks of it, aviation seriously needs to be replaced somehow. I do not know what "electric planes" could ever be invented and when that will be, but I am 100% sure that with how much airports are covering in landmass, I am 100% certain that if we ever get planes that uses energy via renewable ones, they could replace themselves alone.

Each airport in the world would be filled to the bring with solar panels and what not, even maybe winds, or find ways to turn that jet engine blows which are hard into electricity. I literally have zero clue, I am making things up here, don't mind me, but when that happens, it is going to matter a lot. Look at how MASSIVE they are in that list.

Ships and AC's come in second, ships are a must, but maybe they can be turned renewable easier, and AC could definitely be doing that easily, just put a solar panel on the roof and let it get electricity all paid for while using AC like crazy. It's never about "using" energy, it is using bad versions that matters the most. If you use coal then even just a bit matters, but if you use solar, then use it all the way up to the end of it, doesn't matter.

Findingnemo

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Now it is clear that current banking system is creating more carbon emission than the Bitcoin mining but I am not sure the numbers are accurate because I expected the numbers of banking industry is a lot higher or probably hidden along with airconditioner. Anyway now we can point fingers who is the biggest culprit. Cheesy

avikz

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Thanks for the graph op. Very much appreciated! That's why I always say that these environmentalist groups and their actions agains bitcoin mining is funded by banking industry. Because banking industry is the only industry whose dominance is challenged by bitcoin. So they are trying to give the crypto market a different angle because they know they can't win in a face to face war.

These are bloody politics happening here! There's no ground whatsoever to the claim that bitcoin is harmful for the environment.

KaliLinux

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Quote from: KingsDen on June 09, 2022, 06:19:45 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

There is an African adage that says "When Tiger wants to kill an Owl, it will say that the Owl starred at it rudely." That is the regular reason and/or excuse that Tiger users to kill Owl whenever it is hungry.
This works for Tiger because, by nature Owl is created to always turn its eyes in a rudely manner.

Relating the above adage to bitcoin;
Whenever the government wants to attack bitcoin or ban a minning rig, they will use the energy and carbon emission stories to cover up.
The miners cannot do anything because it is the nature of bitcoin. But we all know the facts.
We can only encourage miners to go green and in no distance time, this will be a past story.

I agree with you and I also believe all this hatred for Bitcoin by these Governments is because they know what it stands for and will not want to have that. It is no longer an argument that Bitcoin mining consumes the lowest energy amongst many other economic sectors but these Governments will continue to push this false narrative about Bitcoin's carbon emission and its effect on the environment. Like you said, hope someday most major mining sites will be able to go green.

KingsDen

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

There is an African adage that says "When Tiger wants to kill an Owl, it will say that the Owl starred at it rudely." That is the regular reason and/or excuse that Tiger users to kill Owl whenever it is hungry.
This works for Tiger because, by nature Owl is created to always turn its eyes in a rudely manner.

Relating the above adage to bitcoin;
Whenever the government wants to attack bitcoin or ban a minning rig, they will use the energy and carbon emission stories to cover up.
The miners cannot do anything because it is the nature of bitcoin. But we all know the facts.
We can only encourage miners to go green and in no distance time, this will be a past story.

Charles-Tim

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According to this year CoinShares report, this was the conclusion:

Quote from: Charles-Tim on February 01, 2022, 06:31:40 AM

Conclusion
In the grand scheme of things, the carbon emissions emitted by electricity providers supplying the Bitcoin mining network are inconsequential. At 0.08 % of global CO2 emissions, removing the entire mining network from global demand—and thereby depriving hundreds of millions of people of their only hope for a fair and accessible form of money—would not amount to anything more than a rounding error.

If bitcoin is only contributing 0.08% of the global CO2 emissions, that is not significant. According to your graph, see to what large extent other industries are contributing to global warming.

You still represented only carbon emissions but not only carbon is even contributing to global warmin, there are other gasses like methane, nitrous oxide in parean (laughing gas), fluorinated gases, sulphur hexafluoride etc that are responsible for global warming while methan is the most potent of them all, some of the gases may even be released to the atmosphere by some industrial activities.

hatshepsut93

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Now compare utility of Bitcoin and other industries. Gaming brings entertainment to billions of people. Banking industry is the fundament of finance in every country. Data centers make the modern Internet possible. Without transportation, global economy wouldn't be possible. If any of those things were gone, it would be a catastrophe to humanity as a whole. If Bitcoin would be gone, it would only affect some tens of millions of people who use it as an investment. For governments that want to reduce emissions by their country, banning crypto mining could be a very low-hanging fruit.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on June 09, 2022, 02:40:46 PM

When some persons do not like something, they amplify the negative effects of it to try and discourage or stop it's use, but that being said it is not justifiable that because the percentage of carbon bitcoin mining contributes is small, that it should be ignored. The use of safer and renewable energy sources should be encouraged.

I totally agree with you in your assessment of this aspect of the matter. This leads me to think more about the energy that is used in many industries that are not needed, for example, the manufacture of firearms of all kinds, tanks and all combat mechanisms. Why is it not addressed in the same logic?

TimeTeller

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Quote from: Rruchi man on June 09, 2022, 02:40:46 PM

Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

Looking at the data, we can see that Bitcoin accounts for only the smallest share of carbon footprint/environmental pollution and global warming.

When some persons do not like something, they amplify the negative effects of it to try and discourage or stop it's use, but that being said it is not justifiable that because the percentage of carbon bitcoin mining contributes is small, that it should be ignored. The use of safer and renewable energy sources should be encouraged.

Presently, estimates say about 57% of the energy used for crypto mining comes from renewable sources , we can do more and completely shift to zero carbon emission.

This is true, sometimes the media also highlight the negative impact of bitcoin mining.
Whereas, they neglect other industries which has bigger role in the global warming scenario.
People need to see the charts and the overall impact, so they will change their perspectives towards bitcoin mining.
But anyway, while we can't convince people to believe the facts, miners should really just explore the renewable sources.
This will keep these people from looking for loopholes of bitcoin mining.

Rruchi man

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Quote from: Marvell1 on June 09, 2022, 11:56:36 AM

Looking at the data, we can see that Bitcoin accounts for only the smallest share of carbon footprint/environmental pollution and global warming.

When some persons do not like something, they amplify the negative effects of it to try and discourage or stop it's use, but that being said it is not justifiable that because the percentage of carbon bitcoin mining contributes is small, that it should be ignored. The use of safer and renewable energy sources should be encouraged.

Presently, estimates say about 57% of the energy used for crypto mining comes from renewable sources , we can do more and completely shift to zero carbon emission.

Marvell1

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We do not deny that mining Bitcoin also creates a large amount of carbon into the environment and somewhat pollutes the environment, but it is nothing if we compare it with other industries.

I don't know how many people use Hybrid cars or Electric cars. But, according to the wired oct, 2020 report, only US gaming platforms consume around 34 terawatt-hours of electricity annually, so can you imagine how much electricity is representing the entire world for e-gaming purposes?
Source: https://www.wired.com/story/xbox-playstation-cloud-gaming-environment-nightmare

They are continuously promoting Esports by arranging international tournaments and making a dumb young generation. So, they are not concerned about the environment at all, things are something different here.

Looking at the data, we can see that Bitcoin accounts for only the smallest share of carbon footprint/environmental pollution and global warming.
All the reasons they gave were to hide their fears, fear of dominance, out of control ... Fear of Bitcoin.

Source pic: Messari and coinshares

Topic: Energy used to mine Bitcoin with other industries. (Read 315 times)