Topic: ETH mining nearing end of life - When will you liquidate your rigs? (Read 625 times)

Is Ethereum a security?
We have already experienced similar situations in 2014 and 2019. Mining coins exist, but the profit is the same as in 2014 and 2019. The GPU minerum needs the developer of the new coin to adhere to the Asic-resistant algorithm, otherwise nothing will change.

I've seen a couple of other similar posts in the past few days: old thread, off topic, newbie account sharing "wisdom" but mostly nonsense,
and looks like it was written by an AI.

Since 2017 most of the GPU profitability was due to Ethereum. How many new projects these days are POW based? What was the last successful POW coin that launched?

I think our only hope is that SEC seems all ICOs as securities and then maybe new projects will be POW based. Then I can see them making a come back. But you know how most new projects are. They want to raise capital as quick as possible and POW is not the way.

"2013-2017-2021-2025" Don't forget this sequence

Very odd to see someone bump this thread. I remember making it in early 2022. In hindsight if we all followed my predictions when I made this thread then you would of liquidated your rigs at a great price. However it was delayed by a few months, should of went POS by July but instead it went POS by November.

After it went POS the mining profitability went down substancially. Many held their GPUs because we assumed that ETH POW would live on but it didn't really catch any attention. Crazy how much mining has changed in the last year.

How Many Ethereum Are Left?

The total supply of Ethereum is capped at 18 million ETH. This figure is based on the maximum supply limit set by the Ethereum network. As of 2021, there are currently roughly 115 million ETH in circulation. This means that the total number of ETH left is roughly 17 million ETH.

Bitcoin is very profitable at moment, 200t gives around 40 usd net per day and if difficulty does not rise then will be profitable as much, sheeps are overpaying for btc at moment, from 2018 to july 2020, bitcoin was negative profit, you paid to mine, eth devs can change anytime eth profitability, bitcoin profitability is only bound by difficulty, bitcoin has a principle, eth is pure centralized scam, ravecoin and some other coins follow bitcoins principle in that regard. Anyway, the market will stabilize itself and old traders will never buy bitcoin at this price because they hate paying more than what it actually cost to produce which at moment, is around 10k to produce one btc, check the link below to see the truth.

https://whattomine.com/coins/1-btc-sha-256?hr=200000.0&p=4000.0&fee=0.0&cost=0.1&cost_currency=USD&hcost=0.0&btc_enabled=true&btc=10546.54&span_br=1h&span_d=&commit=Calculate

Because of this halving principle, bitcoin cant increase its value anymore and scammers hate that hehe, like I said before market will correct itself due time, sheeps can overpay now but value will always return to its principle. ETH centralized scam will have the same fate, not due to a principle, due to being a scam itself.

You can´t know the the gains after the merge - so you can´t be sure is it acceptable or not  but sure a also don´t sell any of my gpu´s, all are paid of.

The gains will be lower in USD value but you will get more coins due to less mining difficulty, the truth is once mining becomes less profitable many will walk away and wait for another bull season because they can't even pay for the mining electrical cost.

Personally i will not sell any of my few gpus when eth can no longer be mined i will simply go on to mine some other altcoins such as ergo, flux, ravencoin the gains will be lower but still acceptable

I wish I can take out 20 years of your life and you can be at least 45 years old again but I'm powerless, even our creator wouldn't want to play such a stunt on us, death is inevitable but I do wish you much more years ahead in good health, stay healthy we need people like you @philipma

Some can like this one here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyl6ycL1v6o&lc=

I am not 100% certain but I am not sure the current ETH ASICs can mine ETC. Some might some might not. Reason I know is because ETC forked for this reason to get rid of ASICs from its network. They did it because they wanted it to be GPU miners only and ASICs increase risk of 51% attack.

However I heard that the old Antminer E1 can be flashed with some firmware and it can mine ETC. I am not sure if the other ASICs can be flashed however.

All they did was change 1 parameter to render them unusable pretty much.

I 100% agree. Successful operators balance the amount of equipment, cash and coins that they own.

Right now, we should probably hold the equipment, sell the coins, and save cash. In 1-2 months, we should sell the equipment in order to build up cash. After the PoS aftermath is over, we should buy as much equipment as possible with cash, then (depending on coin prices) either hold the coins or slowly replenish our cash reserves.

Me and my three partners finally positioned ourselves where we want to be.

45kwatt solar array
115 kwatt solar array
280 kwatt solar array.

cash sitting
doge sitting
xec sitting
btc sitting
eth sitting.

Not rich but maybe in a few years time we will be there.

My only regret is I am 65 my partners are 58 , 45 and 25.

I would love ❤️ to keep doing this for decades but I am getting old.

I spent five hours driving and four hours working today.
My back is stiff as I type this.

we have more cards coming in.
we have some btc gear coming in.

we have a lot of power available.

Should be fun when Eth goes or delays pos in June.

As I said above, depending on what estimates you look at and who is doing the math it's between 70% to 85% ASIC.
Although the numbers were from last summer I don't know why they would be different.
No proof, just what large miners were saying they were using.


https://2miners.com/blog/ethereum-classic-hard-fork-to-change-cryptocurrency-mining-algorithm-how-to-keep-mining-etc/

There are some custom firmwares that will work but none from OEMs as far as I know (have not checked)

-Dave

For a guy like philipma1957 he can holds cash to enjoy next opportunities like:

1 - Bitcoin crash to increase amount of coins, paying cheap
2 - Cheap hardware to expand his mining operations
3 - Invest in more solar energy

You said you're planning to mine altcoins and hold until next cycle, it's important to have cash to maintain your operations without any profits if necessary.
Each situation requires different plans, and having cash is essential to enjoy the greatest opportunities if we enter in a bear market or a bad market for miners.

You talking about the first try, not brute force. The quantum right now can in few months crack bitcoin if they want to, like I said before 99.9% of passwords are not resistant to quantum, that 0.01% are government projects that are coming out in a decade or so. You trolls also think fork will always solve things, There are thing that cant be solved, only way is to create anew, bitcoin and 99.9% of everything have short life span. Anyway, no point discussing this further, you trolls are all blind to the truth.

check this article, that article is a lie https://www.newscientist.com/article/2305646-quantum-computers-are-a-million-times-too-small-to-hack-bitcoin/ , if they say the truth people will dump bitcoin tomorrow, mass dumping, imagine other cryptocoins, so they hold the line and tell lies so you sheeps can believe and think everything is safe, is actually hilarious what these wolves do to sheeps ehhe, anyway better be safe than sorry, never go full retard, invest only what you are willing to lose.

https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-03-24/using-just-a-laptop-an-encryption-code-designed-to-prevent-a-quantum-computer-attack-was-cracked-in-just-53-hours.html

Mine and cash out? You think that's a good strategy? What good can come from holding cash? I'm planning on mining very good altcoins like Bitcoin gold, Bitcoin ABC (XEC), Flux, Ravencoin and hold for a long term, probably when another BTC halving takes place and see if bull market will make a come back and start selling my bags.

Calculation is done that quantum computer with 300 million qubits needed to crack BTC. Nowadays QCs have 50-100 qubits. Yes, nothing in this world is forever, except good algorithm. And this one is even able to evolve (fork). 

>ETH ASICs cannot mine ETC
Who the fuck told you that? Citation needed.

But those kinds of projects can take years to become big enough to support millions of video cards. Developers are probably biased against using PoW in the first place, let alone ASIC-resistant PoW.

That's why my business plan is to wait for the big ETH crash, buy up cheap video cards, then mine whatever breadcrumbs are left on the other coins. If I buy the equipment cheaply, I don't care if it takes 2-3 years until the next big GPU coin comes along.

---

Good point. This is why the second half of this year will be the perfect storm for gamers as well as miners who want to get into the market at a cheap price. According to Moore's Law is Dead, Shintel will probably sell their video cards for below cost in order to aggressively take market share from AMDead / nGreedia.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I agree. ETH PoW mining has remained profitable because it has utility and widespread adoption of it's smart contract platform which has evolved in to multiple entire market sectors generating fees for miners. All of the other GPU minable coins have for the most part, empty blockchains and nowhere near the transaction volume of ETH. Once ETH moves to PoS, the block subsidy of those other PoW coins will be distributed to an increasing number of miners jumping in and make it unprofitable except to the miners with the lowest overhead costs.

I very much doubt we will see another POW coin that can support the amount of GPU's and replace ETH's profitability. But I also believe that the millions of GPU's that are currently mining ETH are not just going to sit idly without some project looking to tap in to that enormous computational resource. If ETH's transition to POS is successful, instead of GPU's doing meaningless POW computations to secure a network it may evolve in to a distributed, decentralized network of on-demand computing power such as with the Golem Project and Render coin.

I dont believe most will move to other coins, I believe most will just turn off their gpus and then resell their gpus while they can get something out of it, because, first, it will be negative profit on all coins and second, as we know supply will increase a lot either way, intel gpus coming, eth going pos, new gpus from nvidia aka 4xxx series and amd, plus the second hand market plus many miners with outdated gpus  not being able to compete in the mining anymore. Only crazy people are buying gpus right now or have been for sometime, also this is still not bear market, this still bull market, there is that too and this bull market has been going for a long time already and this is dangerous. I do believe manipulators will one more time pump coins before a huge crash, they want to trap new sheeps close to top once again ehhe

Also the gpu price manipulation in china will decrease a lot as Intel gets into the gpu market because Intel knows there is profit to be made here, nvidia and amd have been monopolizing the gpu market for sometime. People need to understand no companies are here to make you happy ehhe, they want profit and amd and nvidia are already friends in the gpu market mafia, even if intel get inside still not sure if this price manipulation will be less than what it is, we need another player other than intel, amd or nvidia.

You're right, your numbers are correct and I can't disagree with facts 
BUT, let's imagine a better scenario?

There's a probability of more than 50% of hashrate being from Asics
You're saying ALL hashrate goes to ETC, if this happens, all another coins will continue profitable, and in a realistic scenario the power will be divided to different coins
ETC price right now is 48 USD, and ATH is 176 USD, there's chance to ETC reach this price again

Every little thing can increase profitability, and I say again, hard to know, even the oldest miners can't know exactly 



ETH can be dumped after merge, we will only know about the influence of miners at price after some time
And there's the unlock too
Miners are part of the ETH environment, they sell coins, but they do more than that to ETH

95% of the ethereum network is owned by the miners.
Moving to POS is a smart move, but not a profitable move.

I have 140 GPUS and have been mining since 2016, everything has been paid off long ago.  If nothing is profitable I'll turn off my rigs and wait awhile before selling gpus.  When I got into mining I never thought it would last this long, I'm just happy with the results. 

Ethereum Network Hashrate is currently: 955 TH/s
Etherecum Classic Network Hashrate is currently: 27 TH/s

Currently with 30MH/s you make $1 per GPU per day with ETC. Prior to any power costs.

If all the 955 TH/s switches to ETC, then the hashrate will become ~ 982 TH/s. Which means the difficulty will go up 36x. So basically the profits go down 36 times.

So $1 per day becomes $0.027 per day before any power costs.

Now lets assume that only half the hashrate are GPUs since the ETH ASICs cannot mine ETC. So 955/2=477TH/s. So ETC Network hashrate will become 504TH/s.

So basically instead of $0.027 per day it will be $0.053 per day. You basically need $0.015 kwh power to make nothing. Nobody except maybe in Iraq got 1 cent power.

This is something I've been talking about for a while, there's a good opportunity to another coin take advantage of huge hashrate leaving ETH

We are talking about eth merge, end of mining, prices and coins exactly how they are right now, but in a few months we can see another coin taking this advantage, maybe a coin that already exists, like RVN as you said, maybe some coin with a good strategy to mine...

See? Nobody can predicts the end of mining or the continuity, it's all predictions...

We don't know how many asics are mining ETH, how many home miners will leave, if markets continue to rising and achieve new ATH, or enter in another bull run, the chances of being good to miners will increase.
And we can have another 2 years like 2018 and 2019 where profits are bad for most people and then another cycle starts...

Agreed.  I don't expect GPU mining to suddenly stop because ETH went PoS.  If anything, you may see an explosion in price of a coin like Ravencoin to enable the market to move on to the next thing.  If you were looking at selling your rigs, the time is already behind us.  Prices of ETH are on the rise and prices of GPUs are on the decline for more than a month now.  As the price of ETH rises more and GPUs continue to fall in price, you get a double loss on what you could have sold them for.  No amount of mining in this period will make up for that loss.  So basically, if you're planning to sell your rigs, do so ASAP.  If you're planning to continue mining, don't worry about it.  The market will create opportunities.  That's what it does.

Yeah Like I said my gear is paid off. I could mine any coins I want for 18 months even if all the coins were worthless.

So Basically I simply mine and cash out. I hodl the cash and see what happens.

It's no more a rumour I suggest you take this very serious, the ETH PoW algorithm is going away but I think vitalik buterin isn't happy about it either, the PoW algorithm is the best way better than PoS algorithm.

Why would I liquidate my farm when everything has been paid off just because ETH is rumored to be going Consensus layer this June/July? What makes you think if a big bug was found that they'll launch it in three months? lol

Dont worry too much. Even eth goes away thats fine. who knows maybe dev will upgrade ETC much better like ETH does new contracts new abilities,new ecosystem or this can happen to any coin out there.1 thing i know if ETH moves to POS it will loose.Most valuable coins is POW coin.POS coins dont cost nothing they just made from thin air.I think Buterin also knows how POW is important.
 it is crypto anything can happen tomorrow.

I have no idea, all I know is there is more than 4 coins that are profitable on my Nvidia graphic cards, I can still mine crypotnightgpu algo, kawpow algo, autolykos algo and others, it doesn't make sense to sell gpus right now.

I will continue mining even at a loss,be it ETC,ERGO or RVN as the top priority coins after ETH goes to PoS while Monero can also be a good thing up to a certain extent.Another way is to point your hash rate to the unmineable website and choose one of the many coins that cannot be mined directly with GPU-s.As always as long there is a will there is a way and I am pretty sure not 100% of the miners are depending on Ethereum only,they have alternatives in place if the merge happens during Q2 or Q3 of this year.

Many miners will sell their rigs and mining difficulty will decrease, this is my aim after the PoS algorithm is active on the ETH network, things will look very bad at first but later those who refuse to sell their rigs will be the winners.

I will be happy to buy some discounted GPU from you or other miners that will sell there rig. I will use it to update all the GPU use on my internet cafe since I'm currently using low end graphic cards as my customer only play soft graphics games. Yes I think this will be not an issue besides miner is already ROI, There's a lot of potential buyer in secondary market that looking for used GPU as a temporary replacement for there own personal computer. This GPU used in mining usually has a high spec so it will be easy to sell it on discounted price just to salvage some money from it for miners.

GPU miner since '13 here.. Was happily GPU mining away for 3 years BEFORE Ethereum even came along.

I'm already preparing stuff for other coins - I don't plan on selling mine. See, the thing is... there ARE other coins to mine. Now, many will sell off their rigs, and as the profitability of them drop (due to ETH miners moving), the less efficient miners will drop off - leaving the more efficient ones.

This recent move, most popular altcoins going up a little tell us that manipulators will take btc and eth close to their past highs, I still have 20% on eth yet and will sell before eth completes the merger, It will be very dangerous to hold eth after the merger, too many people staked when eth was around 100 usd, seeing close to 5k will make 90% of them insta sell.

I don't care, ETH PoS might not happen but if it does I will buy more graphics cards anyways, I'm not selling my GPUs because the unexpected can happen too, what if ETH reach 5000$ before June? If this price stays for a month and half that's insane profit for miners, at least a worth goodbye to PoW algorithm it's gonna be.

Wouldn't it be worth considering selling your video cards a month before PoS, then buying back twice as many cards after GPU prices hit rock bottom?

I know it's very hard to liquidate a farm of that scale (I've done it before), but maybe it is doable if you find a few bulk buyers.

This will be a non issue for me.

I burn 150 cards under 30 kwatt total.

so 30 x 24 = 720 kwatts a day that is 36 dollars in power a day. At a nickel a kwatt

or 36 x 365 = 13000+ cash for the next year.

All my cards are paid off.

and I have over 22000 in cash waiting for this issue to happen.

So my cards are covered for more than 18 months even if they just burn power and earn zero.

Any miner worth his salt should be ready for this to happen.

Btw The real question is what will AMD and Nvidia do if the turnover happens.

No one will buy cards from them for like a year straight.

BTW Good luck to all but I see at least a delay to Oct or Nov.

Just let them suffer. That's how miners become more experienced for next time.

What's going to happen with PoS is a lot like what happened in late 2018, when profitability on all coins declined by 90%. Miners like myself went bankrupt and liquidated their rigs for dirt cheap. Mining profit did recover 3 months later, though.

But this time, the crash will be 95%, not 90%; and it'll happen in a matter of days instead of months. I can't wait! It'll be an interesting time. My prediction: the average AMD GPU price will fall to 40% of MSRP, while NVIDIA will reach 60% of MSRP.

I think the main point that you are missing is that depending on what estimates you look at between 70% to 85% of ETH mining is done by ASICs not GPUs
So yes, there will be TONS of GPUs coming into the market but it's not like it's even a significant portion of the hash rate. AND most large mining farms are using cards w/o outputs like these: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sapphire-radeon-x080-and-x060-rdna2-mining-cards-spotted so even if it is 30% GPU mining a large portion of them can't be used for anything else.

The home / hobby / small miners can and probably will dump their GPUs to a certain extent, but it's not going to be a free for all. Since home / hobby / small miners may or may not want to do other things with their cards. Be it mine other coins, or do vanity searches or game or run folding at home or....

-Dave

They are only profitable because eth is profitable, that is called the chain effect, that is why cryptocoins are valuable, because bitcoin is valuable. If no more eth then what is the enxt coin profitable as much as eth? there are none, so nothing will carry that much hashrate or even the demand for such coin, meaning of this thread is gameover for now is getting very close, yeah could be another coin in few years but that will take time, I believe it will have another coin as good as eth to mine, pay attention that quantum can destroy 99.9% the existent cryptocoins, including bitcoin itself, so you trolls that think bitcoin will forever live and all, pay attention to that, nothing in this world is forever, not even diamonds.

Anyway, You trolls should hold for what is coming pos eth merge, dont be a sheep.

Do you not know that every coin has something called difficulty which keeps the daily mineable supply capped. Right now since ETH is still mineable most GPU mineable coins have a similar profit per day.

Here is an example.

ETC has a daily supply of 100 ETC.

With 1 miner, he would make 100 ETC a day.

With 100 miners, each would make 1 ETC a day.

This is assuming each miner has an equal hashrate.

There are millions Of GPUs mining ETH right now. If they switch to ETC the difficulty will skyrocket and daily profits per miner will shrink by a huge magnitude.

No idea why you are thinking that.
Looking at whattomine.com there are still 6+ coins that are close to ETH mining profits.
And another 15 or so that will still generate some good money.
At a guess those will get crushed, but some others will probably come back up.
Monero and similar are my guess.

Not going to worry about it.

FYI there are dozens of similar posts about this very thing if you want to search a bit.

-Dave

So listening and reading in on all the dev comments. It seems that unless there is some major bug discovered last minute, it seems the merge will happen in June 2022. Maybe July 2022.

The merge means finally end of POW mining for ETH and quite possibly for most GPUs out there in existence. GPU mining might be a thing of the past.

Everybody is saying. Oh there are other coins to mine. However they don’t realize that most of the mineable GPU coins out there, the miner reward is nowhere near that of ETH. And ETH mining was not only profitable due to its block reward, it was profitable most of the time due to its transaction fees. No other coin out there generated as much miner transaction fees as ETH.

I can see this being the end of the road for most GPUs in terms of mining. Most GPUs will go live a second life as a gamer or rendering GPU, not mining. Maybe 1-2% will go on and continue to mine ETC.

It’s great if you are a ETH holder. The merge will lower the issuance rate and increase the staking rate. So it’s good for ETH long term price.

So question is when will you start to sell your GPUs?

1) If you sell too early and the merge is delayed you might lose out on some profits.

2) If you sell a month before a confirmed block number is confirmed, you will miss out on one or two months profits but you will get top dollar for your gear.

3) If you wait until the block number is released or sell until the last block is mined you are going to compete with many other miners out there who are listing their GPUs on eBay, Kijiji, Facebook marketplace, Amazon, etc.