EU considers launching database of Bitcoin owners

AidenCasanova

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

actually i think, this holiday make price fall down
not this news
and also i'm 100% agree with this

Quote from: bitbunnny on December 21, 2017, 08:35:48 AM

I don't think this has something to do with the price.
But Bitcoin has lost the anonimity long time ago with new regulations for exchangers. To be able to trade there you have to register with your personal data according to anti money laundering and anti terrorism laws. So, your data are also available to law enforcement agencies if they ask exchangers for delivery. Today there are also other tecniques to identify the Bitcoin owner so full anonimity doesn't exist.
This database might be difficult to exist in the light of the new EU GDPR directive but we'll see.

if we make transaction in anonim coin such as monero XMR, Zcash and Dash etc, but when we want to change it into fiat we must follow the rule that exchanger make
and that's why full anonimity doesn't exist anymore

Quote from: pinkflower on December 23, 2017, 09:02:29 PM

Its useless and pointless if you ask me. The terrorists, the drug dealers, and all those criminals will start using a privacy coin anyhow.

Even if they have the name of a user, how can an EU law enforcer prove that an XMR or Zcash transaction made by that user is really his, or how can they find the transactions they are looking for in XMR or Zcash lol.

Maybe XMR, Zcash and Dash are the future.

for now i can not denied that, but maybe others can

pinkflower

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Its useless and pointless if you ask me. The terrorists, the drug dealers, and all those criminals will start using a privacy coin anyhow.

Even if they have the name of a user, how can an EU law enforcer prove that an XMR or Zcash transaction made by that user is really his, or how can they find the transactions they are looking for in XMR or Zcash lol.

Maybe XMR, Zcash and Dash are the future.

Tenderino

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When you buy and sell bitcoin at regulated bitcoin exchanges which have your identity, then you used it anyway not anonym.

Quote

MEPs will consider setting up a central hub of people who use the online exchanges where Bitcoin is bought and sold.

The check point is focused on exchanges within the EU and you still have the option to buy and sell at exchanges outside the EU or use local bitcoin.

This will have no affect for online gamblers using bitcoin as deposit and withdrawal method in connection with an anonymous account like available at Jetwin.

PEG-TOKEN

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The answer is simple.

Stay away from centralized exchanges that are forced to take ID / Name / Address + your soul if they could.

You can still sell and buy bitcoin many ways without having to jump through the hoops of regulation.
The whole purpose of bitcoin was to avoid third party trust.
Get back to the roots p2p currency! Stay away from the large popular exchanges they will bring nothing but trouble and tax to bitcoin.

Whats next fees + tax on transactions..

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: EinaiOraCoinDev on December 23, 2017, 04:11:44 PM

Even if it is real it would take more than years to get it implemented, there are more than millions of people in the whole EU.

in the meantime, governmental agencies (EU or not) are probably already working with blockchain analysis companies to build their own databases. we may not be registering our bitcoin wallets yet, but they are definitely watching us. chainalysis scrapes the internet for data about the bitcoin network, and over time, connections to our identities can be made. it's time to get serious about privacy -- TOR, e2e encryption, mesh networks.....

Quote from: LeGaulois on December 23, 2017, 04:43:50 PM

There is something more radical coming soon. In the next meeting, the G20 will debate about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Most of the dedate will be about what to do with cryptos, how to regulate, how to get free money collecting a tax. The majority doesn't consider Bitcoin as a (crypto) currency but as a speculative asset

i'm guessing some kind of joint effort will be made by western governments to scare people into paying taxes. that's the primary fear for now; i don't think they feel threatened with regard to fiat currency. these databases, combined with new laws like SB 1241 will probably be the result.

LeGaulois

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There is something more radical coming soon. In the next meeting, the G20 will debate about Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Most of the dedate will be about what to do with cryptos, how to regulate, how to get free money collecting a tax. The majority doesn't consider Bitcoin as a (crypto) currency but as a speculative asset

To make it worst, govts are not able to give a simple answer for the taxes. I don't want to give up to 60% of my profits. I am on the point to think about to move in another country more taxes friendly

EinaiOraCoinDev

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Even if it is real it would take more than years to get it implemented, there are more than millions of people in the whole EU.

It would be something very difficult to make, they are trying to do the same as some countries from South America are trying to do with all those who buy bitcoins.

Murloc

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Just about the subj: this is just one more miserable attempt of the government to controll people. They already failed with anti terrirism laws and they will fail here. The only ones who will get troubles because of this are just normal BTC users. Criminals will easily find a way to avoid it. I hope that community is smart enough to just ignore this kind of news.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

...

It looks to me like investors are pulling money out of bitcoin, which may have hit a bit of a ceiling, and pumping alts like litecoin and bitcoin cash which are easier to pump and dump with their lower network activity and smaller trading volumes. I think that's the reason for bitcoin's latest price decline but we'll have to wait awhile for confirmation.

Surveillance measures in the article you posted track user data across exchanges. I'm not certain that will make a difference as some exchanges already have KYC (know your customer) checks in place when dealing with sums larger than $1k.

There is also concern that if the EU launches a database containing personal data, hackers could steal that information the way that millions of credit card details are leaked online. It could decrease the security of bitcoin/crypto and increase incidence of identity theft, etc.

MrBea

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I think more news very similar to this keeps coming out and actually have a lot more in 2018. With all this new influx of money you know for a fact that the governments are going to try to dip their hand in the honey pot whichever way you can. The answer to this? Privacy Coins. I am splitting up a big percentage of my portfolio for privacy coins as I'm expecting them to absolutely explode in 2018 with all this "regulation" trying to come our way.

1Referee

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Quote from: Brunusmagnus on December 21, 2017, 04:25:39 PM

You can bet that government will try anything to control the cryptorevolution.

It's nothing new. If we look at the main things the government is looking to get from crypto, then it's users paying tax, and localizing who owns what number of coins. At some point people will understand that it is a necessity to find a mid way balance from both sides (government and crypto) that we all can be more or less happy with. Whether we like it or not, in order to push Bitcoin further into the mainstream, we need abide by certain governmental laws, and control is a key element here.

Quote from: Brunusmagnus on December 21, 2017, 04:25:39 PM

But with a little precautions, I think that there is a long way to a global database.

I have been mixing my coins before sending them to my cold wallets for years now, and I will continue to do that since I don't know any better. Coins I withdraw from an exchange have my personal taint on them, which I want to get rid of by mixing. Also, this will further stimulate P2P markets to grow larger, which I see as a good thing.

Brunusmagnus

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You can bet that government will try anything to control the cryptorevolution.
But with a little precautions, I think that there is a long way to a global database.

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Quote from: Hemady17 on December 21, 2017, 08:51:05 AM

Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

I also read articles that EU will outlaw anonymous cryptocurrency. The reason why bitcoin volatile is that whales are selling their bitcoin and it is not connected with EU's protocol. I think it will help to tame terrorism and manipulate people around the world.
Anonymity is the most feature I want in cryptocurrencies because it's hide private information. Sadly to see that anonymity will remove in digital currency but we need to follow them.

There were no real opinions that they will autlaw it, no hings, nothing like that. The only thing that I've seen is that it's being discussed there and that some bankers have warned that cryptos are in a bubble that could pop at any moment. Cryptocurrencies are legal in the EU and many exchanges and ATMs are based there. Nothing to worry about!

VeverkaT

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I have my privacy rights, I will no give my bitcoin address to anyone. Nor EU. Presumption of innocence - I did and I do nothing wrong. So no reason for me to report my BTC address.
No worries, no such list will ever exist, these EU politicians use BTC to launder their money (from us, taxpayers) , just as they used offshore companies/banks in the past.

pereira4

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

I don't know who the hell was expecting any anonymity if you were interacting with the legacy banking system?

If you are using exchanges to buy bitcoin with fiat, or selling bitcoin for fiat in an exchange, it's common sense that they will profile you and get you on a list, this is not bitcoin's fault.

So pay your taxes and stop complaining about it. I have no idea about taxes myself and im learning how it works for when I sell for fiat, but for now im just holding, I don't want to do anything stupid like reporting it the wrong way. Accountants are completely useless because they don't know anything about bitcoin... we are on our own so far, this is why im scare to sell anything.

Mometaskers

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Quote

The European Union is considering a database of Bitcoin owners in Europe under laws designed to fight money laundering and terrorism.

As part of a crackdown on virtual currencies, MEPs will consider setting up a central hub of people who use the online exchanges where Bitcoin is bought and sold.

The proposal, first mooted last year and agreed on Friday, follows fears that Bitcoin, which is partially anonymous, is being used to dodge taxes and finance criminality.

It was contained within updates to money laundering regulations agreed on Friday that require the online exchanges to abide by strict customer identity requirements, and to report suspicious activity to the authorities...

Haven't read the entire article, yet to register to that news site.

What I'm taking from this is that they plan to compel all the exchanges to hand them over all their customers' information and then they'll aggregate all those data to make a profile for anyone who ever had bitcoins there. Did the EU just turned into Big Brother?

They insist it's because of possible use for money laundering. LOL isn't it ironic that this would make exchanges even more transparent than the banking system they are protecting?

Gozie51

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If EU starts looking at data base for bitcoin owners, it simply means we are slightly heading to a time when bitcoin will be regulated and monitored. This data base will be good for bitcoin and cryptos.

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

Hate how the telegraph makes their articles only accessible to registered accounts. But from what I can gather, firstly they're going to struggle to even implement such a thing and secondly I don't see how it would be influencing the price so greatly. Anonymity is maybe one thing we might have to sacrifice in the future, at least in some capacity.

Siren

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

Possibly. But for me, EU doesn't make any significant effect on bitcoin. We already know that they are against bitcoin, so with that said, its not the reason why the price did go down a few days ago, maybe investors just cashing it out. But its sad to hear if EU will do such a thing. I think its borderline controlling those who have bitcoin as their investments.

And I'm not sure how this can be a effective tool to curb bitcoin users. On the contrary, this may attract a lot of Europeans to seek what bitcoin is and its gonna be a headache for EU government to track all of them.

BTTrader

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This can never truly come to be in my opinion. How could they possibly keep track of all the people holding private keys in storage? This just doesn’t seem like a realistic venture.

vv181

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I think it does not matter how many addresses they collect. Bitcoin user will remain anonymous, that is why many people using the same address over time is a bad idea because it can leak the anonymity. The good thing is pretty much wallet nowadays already had a feature that changes deposit address everytime it's used.

Harlot

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I agree with how Bitbunny explained it that Bitcoin has lost its anonymity as it is something that Bitcoin and its users needs to sacrifice in order to move forward. However I disagree with him about the news, because a news this big that affects all the European countries could be a major catalyst for the movement of Bitcoin it serves as there driver to move the prices down or it is just timely as whales are selling/offloading their shares to take profit from it.

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Quote from: cryptonomics_dealer on December 21, 2017, 08:28:04 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

I also read articles that EU will outlaw anonymous cryptocurrency. The reason why bitcoin volatile is that whales are selling their bitcoin and it is not connected with EU's protocol. I think it will help to tame terrorism and manipulate people around the world.
Anonymity is the most feature I want in cryptocurrencies because it's hide private information. Sadly to see that anonymity will remove in digital currency but we need to follow them.

bitbunnny

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I don't think this has something to do with the price.
But Bitcoin has lost the anonimity long time ago with new regulations for exchangers. To be able to trade there you have to register with your personal data according to anti money laundering and anti terrorism laws. So, your data are also available to law enforcement agencies if they ask exchangers for delivery. Today there are also other tecniques to identify the Bitcoin owner so full anonimity doesn't exist.
This database might be difficult to exist in the light of the new EU GDPR directive but we'll see.

cryptonomics_dealer

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/12/18/eu-considers-launching-database-bitcoin-owners-crack-criminals/

Is it the reason, why bitcoin price goes down? Or does it mean the end of one of main bitcoin's principles - anonymity?

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