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Topic: Eu uk and even USA canada needs now commodities trading economy (Read 150 times)

member
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Looking for guilt best look first into a mirror
I said it is healthiest and strongest economy. Not to mention that relying on exports is only a serious vulnerability if (1) they export only one thing (like oil export countries) or (2) they export to small number of countries. Neither of these are true. China is manufacturing a large number of things and exports them to almost all the countries


That is only because the data they release is partly manipulated.
https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/eastasiapacific/are-chinese-statistics-manipulated

beware no new are fully trusted.

some healthy economy it is
Stock market issues: https://archive.ph/jfoJQ
Original: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-10/china-s-6-5-trillion-stock-rout-worsens-economic-peril-for-xi

Detained investment bankers: https://archive.ph/lS46V
Original: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-12/china-detains-investment-bankers-takes-passports-in-graft-sweep

No nation is without issues, no company runs without risks.
legendary
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I seriously doubt that.
China relies heavily on export. That is not healthy at all, look at Germany, another candidate for an unhealthy State's lifestyle. 
I didn't say Chinese economy doesn't have any weaknesses or vulnerabilities, I said it is healthiest and strongest economy. Not to mention that relying on exports is only a serious vulnerability if (1) they export only one thing (like oil export countries) or (2) they export to small number of countries. Neither of these are true. China is manufacturing a large number of things and exports them to almost all the countries.

The biggest vulnerability of China in my opinion is its society. A massive population that is being ruled over with an iron fist. If they revolt, the entire China is going to burn to the ground. We saw a preview of it back in 2020 with lots of stupid idiots with a "blank sheet" who didn't even know what they wanted! If something like that grows, gets organized with a leader or if CIA succeeds in a coup there, it would be the end of China.

By the way the problem with Germany was that they relied on ultra cheap energy imports and they built most of their economy on resources they didn't have. The second problem is that they went ahead and listened to the US regime and shot themselves in the foot by sanctioning their source of ultra cheap energy. Which is why their industries started crashing.
As we've seen in the past 3 years, China doesn't give a crap about what US regime orders them to do. They continue doing what's best for them.
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Take the Chinese economy for instance. It has issues but it is still the strongest and healthiest economy in the world. They don't even have enough resources to back that massive economy and yet it is massive and strong. Why? Because they are producing actual goods for an actual demand that exists.


I seriously doubt that.
China relies heavily on export. That is not healthy at all, look at Germany, another candidate for an unhealthy State's lifestyle. 
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
Therefore, I would argue that the most important thing that backs fiat, comes from the core of coercion, and it is the military.
US didn't coerce other countries to use the dollar through military force that then strengthen the dollar. They did it using their soft power coups, their fake international organizations like U.N., their sanctions, they abused the post WW2 destruction, etc. and of course the 2 biggest scams called Bretton Woods and Petrodollar.

Besides, there are exceptions to that rule.
Do you consider the Yemeni Riyal to be stronger than the USD? After all the armed forces of Yemen defeated the US military in the Red Sea as the Americans are now confessing to how the USN was miserably defeated after 10 months of censorship!

You see military is not really a big factor determining the strength of a fiat, specially since the US military is he most expensive weak military in the world.
legendary
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Farewell, Leo
The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.
A healthy and productive economy would likely allow the trade of multiple currencies, and the free enterprise to choose the best money, without being coerced to rely on one. That would result in the decline of the value of that fiat currency. Therefore, I would argue that the most important thing that backs fiat, comes from the core of coercion, and it is the military. The country with the best military wins the fiat game. And, incidentally, since fiat is not scarce, it can be endlessly printed, and can be, therefore, used to endlessly fund the military. The military is then backed by fiat.

Checkmate.
legendary
Activity: 3472
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$23 trillion in natural resources, 6th richest in the world, is definitely not as bad as you pictured it. Especially when they have a friend like Russia that is the richest country with the natural resources.
I stand corrected but their natural resource is still not what backs their fiat. It is their strong economy that is based on actual manufacturing of goods, all domestically. After all there is a reason why they call China the world's factory...
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another senseless thread from someone wishing to run a country.
Have you led a sizeable company yet? Something as big with around 200 000 employed?
legendary
Activity: 3276
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You don't necessarily need any physical commodity to back your fiat to have it become valuable. The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.

Take the Chinese economy for instance. It has issues but it is still the strongest and healthiest economy in the world. They don't even have enough resources to back that massive economy and yet it is massive and strong. Why? Because they are producing actual goods for an actual demand that exists.

Other economies that face issues (and consequently their fiat), are facing them because their economies were not healthy. A lot of them were based on debt and you can only keep a debt based economy running for so long before it falls apart.

The Chinese don't have enough resources? Where did you get that information? As far as I know China owns many resources/mines in Africa nowadays and they have good relations with Russia that is also big on commodities.

Let's see what Investopedia says about that:

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets-economy/090516/10-countries-most-natural-resources.asp

Quote
10 Countries With the Most Natural Resources

1. Russia
Russia's natural resources reserves are worth $75 trillion by Statista's estimate. This amount incorporates, among other things, coal, oil, natural gas, gold, timber, and rare earth metals. Russia's Ministry of Natural Resources and the Environment estimated the total value of the country's mineral reserves at the end of 2018 to equal $1.44 trillion. U.S. Geological Survey. "2019 Minerals Yearbook."

2. United States
The estimated value of natural resources in the U. S. is $45 trillion, almost 90% of which are timber and coal. In fact, the U.S. is the leading producer of coal. As of 2020, it had the largest proven coal reserves in the world.

3. Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia is a small country in the Middle East and is slightly larger than Mexico. Saudi Arabia has $34.4 trillion worth of natural resources—notably oil. The nation has been a leading exporter ever since oil was discovered in 1938.

4. Canada
Fourth on the list is Canada. This vast country has an estimated $33.2 trillion worth of natural resources. It has the third-largest oil deposits after Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. The commodities that the country owns include industrial minerals, such as gypsum, limestone, rock salt, and potash, as well as energy minerals, such as coal and uranium.

5. Iran
Iran's natural resources are worth an estimated $27.3 trillion. In 2021, this country was the fifth-largest crude oil producer in the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and the world's second-largest natural gas producer. [13] Other natural resources include coal, chromium, copper, iron ore, lead, manganese, zinc, and sulfur. Arable land, pistachios, saffron, and fruits also contribute to the estimated value.

6. China
China has natural resources estimated to be worth $23 trillion. Ninety percent of China's resources are coal and rare earth metals. Timber is another major natural resource found in the country, as is arable land.

(the list goes on)


$23 trillion in natural resources, 6th richest in the world, is definitely not as bad as you pictured it. Especially when they have a friend like Russia that is the richest country with the natural resources.
hero member
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You don't necessarily need any physical commodity to back your fiat to have it become valuable. The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.
OP, this is a very good answer. What are physical commodities? How can we back them? They are nothing actually. How would you back Gold? You can't back Gold because Gold is used to back other currencies but why? Because we give it a value, it's all psychological. We want Gold to have value and it has, otherwise no one would use it to back any currency. If we give a currency the same value as Gold has right now, then we will back gold with a currency.

You don't necessarily need any physical commodity to back your fiat to have it become valuable. The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.

Take the Chinese economy for instance. It has issues but it is still the strongest and healthiest economy in the world. They don't even have enough resources to back that massive economy and yet it is massive and strong. Why? Because they are producing actual goods for an actual demand that exists.

Other economies that face issues (and consequently their fiat), are facing them because their economies were not healthy. A lot of them were based on debt and you can only keep a debt based economy running for so long before it falls apart.
Economy is a very complex subject. The only real master of economy is the USA. The way they managed to control the world economy is absolutely on another level. They made USD the global currency, print it out of thin air and then transfer their debt into another countries and other countries pay for USD that the USA prints. I am simply shocked how smart the USA is in economics, it's an art, it's a science.
sr. member
Activity: 966
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You don't necessarily need any physical commodity to back your fiat to have it become valuable. The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.
There was such condition with Gold standard but it was no longer used since decades ago. After that, the US. dollar became popularly used world wide as a new standard unofficially but we all can see a fact that US. dollar itself is hyper inflationary fiat currency and it is backed by nothing.

The US. dollar can be printed from the air with decisions from the USA. and their bad decisions as well as monetary policies over decades contribute to cause massive decrease of US. dollar's purchasing power.

Chart and table on decrease of purchasing power of US. dollar since 1913.

Information on Gold standard.
Quote
A gold standard is a monetary system in which the standard economic unit of account is based on a fixed quantity of gold. The gold standard was the basis for the international monetary system from the 1870s to the early 1920s, and from the late 1920s to 1932 as well as from 1944 until 1971 when the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold, effectively ending the Bretton Woods system. Many states nonetheless hold substantial gold reserves.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
You don't necessarily need any physical commodity to back your fiat to have it become valuable. The most important thing that can back the fiat is the economy itself. A healthy productive economy is worth a lot more than all the resources.

Take the Chinese economy for instance. It has issues but it is still the strongest and healthiest economy in the world. They don't even have enough resources to back that massive economy and yet it is massive and strong. Why? Because they are producing actual goods for an actual demand that exists.

Other economies that face issues (and consequently their fiat), are facing them because their economies were not healthy. A lot of them were based on debt and you can only keep a debt based economy running for so long before it falls apart.
sr. member
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The case is slightly more complicated than just needing more resources to keep the strong fiat currencies. For example, if you take some of the examples of Western countries, the economies of the United States or the United Kingdom are significantly more geared towards services nowadays and not reliant on natural resources, powered by innovation, tech, and finance.

Although it is true that, above all, in Europe nowadays, due to the war in Ukraine, access to resources such as oil and gas still plays a huge role in global economics, many countries are also in the process of diversifying away from those commodities. For instance, the push for renewable sources of energy, majorly in Europe, has been a way of shifting focus to avoid over-reliance on external resources after strained relations with Russia. The second reason why Western economies have been able to support financial growth is that, due to strong monetary policies and not just resource acquisition, they have been able to print money.

Resources are important, but to think that resources are the sole determinant of stability or growth for Western countries, it just is not quite correct. Their strength emanates from innovation, trade policies, and even strategic global alliances beyond just commodities alone.
full member
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I think the world most resourceful economy commodities was leaped out from Europe especially Russia after the collapse of Soviet Union in 1991 during when holding a global superpower on before then the USA grazed at rival to replacement.
Putin has also been one influential aid of which the current world superpower had diluted its global possessions but though yet the Russian government has still maintained a strong key role in the globe.
The geopolitical sentiments of now has then existed but becomes obvious and threatening as political bigots engages on manipulating essences of resources that's potential to offer assistance of people's needs.
It's become unfortunate that the same governments that claims they cares and are responsible to enable Goode living are still the ones suffocating lives with their dynamic economy regulatory.
legendary
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Countries and banks can print money for a while and make inflation high, but at the some point they have to find new mineral resources, oil, gas, metals, to bring the values ​​of their currencies through this they could balance their financial system and value of their fiat currencies since their high population also.

If they not own the resourcoures in their countries or land atleast they need to connect their currencies with commodities and resourcoures country currency it's absaloutely nessecary specially for Europe as they got a lot not backed money in the system.
They all need same thing the USA canada and eu uk that's absaloutely needed in order to keep wealth flowning and growing.

The stock market the luxury market and expensive Luxury real estate market in places like Europe UK USA want to grow and any ways the goverments can support that grouwth the rich tycoons will support actions.

Do you remember before brexit how rich was London ?
Because a lot world commodities and natural resourcoures wealth was in London a lot russia money a lot chinese money and african leaders money.

And GBP value was way higher because instead of their own country currencies the russians or africa or some middle east ones did deals through London UK so the UK London market was like center point of wealth and made uk very wealthy but now suddenly no more good relations with russians and other rich commodities traders.
so that's for sure the western countries even If they don't produce or own they want to get benefits of the commodities and resources.
Off course usa got resources but it's never enough you want always more If they got more they can print more money and rich people are more happy becouse of bigger wealth.

So for Western countries to have ukraine resourcoures it's absaloutely nessecary.



The value of fiat currency is not attached to a physical object. It can still be affected by a country's natural resources and the economy. Earlier, currencies were supported through physical assets such as gold, but in the modern fiat system, it is trusting the government that issues currency. The resource-rich countries can use the resources to enhance their economies and financial performance. Financial centers like London have always had the fruits of international trade in both goods and investment. This aspect is reflected upon given events like Brexit. Capital inflows from Russia, China, and Africa made the economy prosperous in London and strengthened the British pound; it is during the event of Brexit that this position was eroded. This can be by acquiring or controlling resources for the empowerment of their economic growth and financial systems of these nations. An example would be the availability of resources such as from regions like Ukraine. Accessing these resources would be very important for trade balances and also in support of their interests. financial Relationship between resource availability Financial output and financial markets Strong resource management and good economics policy will have a role to enable globalization to have a sufficient amount of global resources.
jr. member
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Countries and banks can print money for a while and make inflation high, but at the some point they have to find new mineral resources, oil, gas, metals, to bring the values ​​of their currencies through this they could balance their financial system and value of their fiat currencies since their high population also.

If they not own the resourcoures in their countries or land atleast they need to connect their currencies with commodities and resourcoures country currency it's absaloutely nessecary specially for Europe as they got a lot not backed money in the system.
They all need same thing the USA canada and eu uk that's absaloutely needed in order to keep wealth flowning and growing.

The stock market the luxury market and expensive Luxury real estate market in places like Europe UK USA want to grow and any ways the goverments can support that grouwth the rich tycoons will support actions.

Do you remember before brexit how rich was London ?
Because a lot world commodities and natural resourcoures wealth was in London a lot russia money a lot chinese money and african leaders money.

And GBP value was way higher because instead of their own country currencies the russians or africa or some middle east ones did deals through London UK so the UK London market was like center point of wealth and made uk very wealthy but now suddenly no more good relations with russians and other rich commodities traders.
so that's for sure the western countries even If they don't produce or own they want to get benefits of the commodities and resources.
Off course usa got resources but it's never enough you want always more If they got more they can print more money and rich people are more happy becouse of bigger wealth.

So for Western countries to have ukraine resourcoures it's absaloutely nessecary.

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