Europe killing the crypto atm business

ccfortransparency

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@Falgorn: Just so you understand what you are saying, this is the future EU you want to be in:
*Buying a new coffee maker* Cashier: Sir, due to current global situations, we request that you show us your personal documents and stand still for 10 seconds for a selfie with your ID card, thank you - here is your change back...

Fiat(paper) != traceable
Bitcoin = pseudo-traceable.

So less reason to ask for KYC when dealing in crypto, there is public traceability, compared to Fiat where none is.
(Btw; != means; NOT - Math is important, stay in school Wink

)

Falgorn

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Europe is forced to impose reasonable restrictions that would prevent the use of cryptocurrency for illegal purposes, including the possibility of financing terrorism. Recently, the countries of the European Union have been periodically subjected to terrorist attacks and the measures taken are generally justified.
However, the states of Europe are very tolerant and friendly towards the implementation and legalization of cryptocurrency.

palle11

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Quote from: marcbitcoins on February 08, 2019, 07:59:33 PM

This is already concluded that Europe is really not against Bitcoin ATM that they are just taking some preventive measures thats its look like KYC documents to ensure that people who used the ATM are legit people. In fact more and more Bitcoin ATM are being installed and more nations in Europe are supporting Bitcoin and the whole crypto currency.

I was wondering why a continent that is at the front of bitcoin support would be clamping down on what it is supporting. Bitcoin ATM is a push to make bitcoin usage more viable to people and make it more close and accessible.

olliecrypto

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Quote from: ccfortransparency on February 22, 2019, 08:45:28 AM

I actually posted a discussion about it on reddit;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/afiu34/eu_bitcoin_atm_operators_not_in_compliance_with/

So far it it still gives atm operations the option for anonyms transactions, but I would set is as low as 250 EUR for buy per crypto addr and 150 for crypto to cash per btc addr - I am still waiting for laywer to confirm that this would be a good estimation without getting into trouble - I am also awaiting my member state to impl. the AMLD5 into local laws, so I can see if they make it stricter or if they write is as vague as possible, just like the EU Directives :/

Well, hopefully we can say good bye to fiat and forget about the EU Directive some day - if you read the EU future plans then they want businesses and people to register at central database with their BTC addresses, the EU are being morons - FIAT is the problem, not our transparent bitcoin...

is there usually a huge upcharge on these purchases ?

ccfortransparency

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I actually posted a discussion about it on reddit;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/afiu34/eu_bitcoin_atm_operators_not_in_compliance_with/

So far it it still gives atm operations the option for anonyms transactions, but I would set is as low as 250 EUR for buy per crypto addr and 150 for crypto to cash per btc addr - I am still waiting for laywer to confirm that this would be a good estimation without getting into trouble - I am also awaiting my member state to impl. the AMLD5 into local laws, so I can see if they make it stricter or if they write is as vague as possible, just like the EU Directives :/

Well, hopefully we can say good bye to fiat and forget about the EU Directive some day - if you read the EU future plans then they want businesses and people to register at central database with their BTC addresses, the EU are being morons - FIAT is the problem, not our transparent bitcoin...

marcbitcoins

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Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

This is already concluded that Europe is really not against Bitcoin ATM that they are just taking some preventive measures thats its look like KYC documents to ensure that people who used the ATM are legit people. In fact more and more Bitcoin ATM are being installed and more nations in Europe are supporting Bitcoin and the whole crypto currency.

Capt00

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Government acceptance for bitcoin/cryptocurrency related projects and so on will require a maximum amount of team effort. General numbers of countries won't accept bitcoin and will keep on regulating it to avoid decentralization well, in fact, it would highly affect the economy of each country if they will support the project without the economy benefitting from the project and being centralized. SO in order for the cryptocurrencies to be accepted, the first thing to do is to make it at least fully regulated and secured and in order to do that we have to initiate it.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: sheenshane on January 08, 2019, 10:06:55 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on January 08, 2019, 09:36:45 AM

Noticed the OP is over 2 years ago, and fast forward to 2019 we're entering full implementation of the 5th Anti Money Laundering Directive that will include cryptocurrency-related financial institutions. Doubt this has any real impact on Bitcoin ATMs in Europe, but you know, it's still the biggest location of ATMs outside of North America.

Correct, OP posted last two years ago, now we are in the year of 2019 and probably the country of EUROPE having improvement in buying Bitcoin since they are now friendly and supported on cryptocurrency(Bitcoin). Besides, Berlin in Europe is the Bitcoin capital of the country and there's an owner of a company there introduced Bitcoin payments in 2012 (probably until now) and has been fascinated by cryptocurrencies for a very long time. So, there's no reason they are killing crypto ATM's businesses there as long as you can be passed the KYC verification.

Quote from: sheenshane on January 08, 2019, 10:06:55 AM

So, there's no reason they are killing crypto ATM's businesses there as long as you can be passed the KYC verification.

do you mean we need to pass the kyc verification before we can use these btc powered atm's ? ouch , that might feel bad especially if you dont have the necesary i.d's needed . at first , i though that atm's are automatic in which you only need to insert your card and the money will dispense according to your inputed amount .

europe might be banning cryptos but this cant affect too much on the price because majority of the countries nowadays are now legalizing the use of cryptos . crypto atm business can still grow and will be used by many people aside from europe .

sheenshane

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Quote from: buwaytress on January 08, 2019, 09:36:45 AM

Noticed the OP is over 2 years ago, and fast forward to 2019 we're entering full implementation of the 5th Anti Money Laundering Directive that will include cryptocurrency-related financial institutions. Doubt this has any real impact on Bitcoin ATMs in Europe, but you know, it's still the biggest location of ATMs outside of North America.

Correct, OP posted last two years ago, now we are in the year of 2019 and probably the country of EUROPE having improvement in buying Bitcoin since they are now friendly and supported on cryptocurrency(Bitcoin). Besides, Berlin in Europe is the Bitcoin capital of the country and there's an owner of a company there introduced Bitcoin payments in 2012 (probably until now) and has been fascinated by cryptocurrencies for a very long time. So, there's no reason they are killing crypto ATM's businesses there as long as you can be passed the KYC verification.

3acaga

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My opinion is that if this service becomes popular, they will reconsider the restriction on the purchase of Bitcoin.
P.S. And KYC is not so terrible as everyone is afraid of him ...

buwaytress

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Noticed the OP is over 2 years ago, and fast forward to 2019 we're entering full implementation of the 5th Anti Money Laundering Directive that will include cryptocurrency-related financial institutions. Doubt this has any real impact on Bitcoin ATMs in Europe, but you know, it's still the biggest location of ATMs outside of North America.

Just looking at the biggest one (Gen Bytes) in my area (15 mins away and actually the only one in my city), you can still buy EUR 5,000 without need for verification. That's more than I'll ever need from a machine, tbh!

CBANX Ltd.

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Europe is supported to cryptocurrency so it will not kill the bitcoin or any crypto coins. After the KYC verification, you can use the ATM machine. This technique is used for stoping the illegal users. When the crypto increase then the Crypto ATM also increase around the world. CBANX has Also launched the Bitcoin ATM. For more details visit https://www.cbanx.com

avikz

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Quote from: Tyger on October 07, 2016, 12:48:14 PM

yes, but on page 30 i see monthly limit of 150 euro and something about 50. thats insane low.

That's true! That's insanely low as a monthly limit. But thank GOD that EU at least has access to the crypto ATMs. In India, people get arrested for installing crypto ATMs. An Indian exchange Unocoin owner got arrested for the same reason.

Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

If you are buying cryptos from a legally registered exchange or ATM, you are expected to pass KYC and comply with the norms of AML framework. Unless the ATM is run by a gangster from his own safehouse, you can't remain anonymous if you use crypto ATMs. Anonymous crypto ATMs look good in imagination but not in reality! What EU is trying to do is similar to slow poisoning the entire game! But the situation should recover in 2019 as more countries will open up their doors to cryptocurrencies.

Siti Nurbaya

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Europe is quite friendly with bitcoin so it will not kill the bitcoin atm, the possibility that the bitcoin atm function cannot be comprehensive and seems to need repairs to be used properly.

BitcoinForeverYoung

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As I have seen in my travels, there is a huge spread of ATMs in some euro countries, where even the normal Bank ATMs will give you Bitcoin. In Austria you can get Bitcoin in every post office too.

The Bitcoin ATMs in my experience do have some flaws like they can often be out of service.

There still is room for lots of new opportunity, like why not have second hand markets accept Bitcoin? This way more people can learn about Bitcoin and trade goods they dont need anymore for Bitcoin (and vice versa). Plus there is no way governments could regulate that and it also eliminates the need for Cash.

DavidNiva

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Quote from: posternat on October 08, 2016, 10:41:18 PM

The more that they feel that they have made the system safe for all and kept the Crypto clean of illegal activity, the less overall attention that they will be giving the system. Give them a few feet and then we take a few miles. Little by little it is going to happen.

it is impossible for Europe to kill Bitcoin, because European countries are the main supporters of Bitcoin, what happens is that Europeans may start to register and will closely monitor the use of bitcoins that sell and buy through cash machines, because they might start to monitor crime. it could happen through this money withdrawal machine.

Royal Jelly

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Quote from: KrishaBitcoin on November 28, 2018, 09:32:16 PM

Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

Being a KYC compliant doesn't mean it will kill the crypto ATM but the EU just want it to make it safe in the future that the illegal people will not be able to easily use the ATM for their illegal activities and i see nothing wrong about that. If you want to buy huge Bitcoin then just do the KYC, there is nothing wrong about that as long as we have nothing to hide and the ATM is legit.

In my opinion, Europeans did not kill the crypto ATM business even though it used KYC, as I did to protect users from being used for money laundering. I see Europe is quite good at welcoming the presence of crypto and making it more developed.

KrishaBitcoin

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Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

Being a KYC compliant doesn't mean it will kill the crypto ATM but the EU just want it to make it safe in the future that the illegal people will not be able to easily use the ATM for their illegal activities and i see nothing wrong about that. If you want to buy huge Bitcoin then just do the KYC, there is nothing wrong about that as long as we have nothing to hide and the ATM is legit.

sambel90129

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Quote from: Dora Doll on October 09, 2016, 08:20:40 AM

i think Europe is also a big supporter of bitcoin, i know so many people who are really using bitcoin and are also good supporter of bitcoin,

Europe kills crypto atm, this might be news that doesn't really see the real situation that some European countries really support bitcoin, we can see there might be a big game to be able to shake crypto, and there are certain things we don't understand with this big game, but essentially Europe is a bitcoin supporter, it's impossible to destroy it.

Patient_Zero

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Quote from: posternat on October 08, 2016, 10:41:18 PM

The more that they feel that they have made the system safe for all and kept the Crypto clean of illegal activity, the less overall attention that they will be giving the system. Give them a few feet and then we take a few miles. Little by little it is going to happen.

the purpose of creating a system of possibilities is for the security of users , but it can also be the desire of some countries to identify users to detect if there are users who violate the law , because with complete data it can facilitate law enforcement to follow up on every case , complete data can be used to monitor movements Money.

Woolles890

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Quote from: WillyZ on November 21, 2018, 04:54:48 AM

Quote from: botany on October 06, 2016, 08:24:09 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on October 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM

Can we get a TLDR?

I think KYC/AML free ATMs are already something of a mythical thing. I've heard of ATMs wanting palm prints, photos of faces and every possible detail of your life.

That is true. ATMs only offer convenience, not anonymity.
And in a developed economy, you expect AML controls to be in place.

Unfortunately if you want convenience then you got to give something back, pay for it. In this case, you pay with your identity, your info.

If a conclusion like this means that the crypto ATM is actually not too important besides that the crypto ATM already has data and identity that will be known by the government, so tracking anonymously bitcoin is known and not anonymous anymore.

WillyZ

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Quote from: botany on October 06, 2016, 08:24:09 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on October 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM

Can we get a TLDR?

I think KYC/AML free ATMs are already something of a mythical thing. I've heard of ATMs wanting palm prints, photos of faces and every possible detail of your life.

That is true. ATMs only offer convenience, not anonymity.
And in a developed economy, you expect AML controls to be in place.

Unfortunately if you want convenience then you got to give something back, pay for it. In this case, you pay with your identity, your info.

primejia

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM

Can we get a TLDR?

I think KYC/AML free ATMs are already something of a mythical thing. I've heard of ATMs wanting palm prints, photos of faces and every possible detail of your life.

ATM like that doesn't seem very good because it is very vulnerable to user data manipulation, maybe ATM with handprints is quite safe without any other systems, but in Europe it might be all tight so it's possible, but in developing countries like Asia ATM like this we don't seem to find it, if there is a sense that there are not many interested people because it is too complicated and disrupts one's privacy.

rosemary4u

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I believe other countries outside Europe can't wait to have bitcoin ATMs. Anyway, it is a good start, I believe the usual ATMs we have around the world started with a handful. Currently there are countless ATMs, as knowledge on crypto increases, the number of bitcoin ATMs around the world will also increase.

Tyger

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Quote

I searched too for "crypto", "atm", "bitcoin" and no result so reading the whole pdf takes lots of time.
Anyway if it is that people are not allowed to use ATM or buying bitcoin<=>cash then people will find always a way how to buy or sell bitcoins.

Look at page 30, its about limiting the amount for anonymous buying btc.

Quote

Actually I believe ATM is against the concept of bitcoin.Why would you want to go to atm to buy or convert your coins when you can do it from the comfort of your home online?

Because not all people know the basics of using a computer and safely buying and selling bitcoins. And you have to to the paperwork before you can do anything.

botany

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Quote from: FLoving on October 09, 2016, 05:11:11 PM

A time will come when we will not need these ATMs and we will like to have only bitcoin and we will easily use our bitcoins for any purpose of us just like we recharge our cell phone within a minute directly with bitcoins.

That is utopia. We don't know when that will ever happen.
If that happens, all ATMs will be shut down, not just bitcoin ATMs.

FLoving

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A time will come when we will not need these ATMs and we will like to have only bitcoin and we will easily use our bitcoins for any purpose of us just like we recharge our cell phone within a minute directly with bitcoins.

SmartIphone

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Quote from: mindrust on October 09, 2016, 04:58:28 PM

There is anything about bitcoin in that pdf. I searched it and found nothing. They can put a limit on withdrawals/deposits but it doesn't equal a ban.

I searched too for "crypto", "atm", "bitcoin" and no result so reading the whole pdf takes lots of time.
Anyway if it is that people are not allowed to use ATM or buying bitcoin<=>cash then people will find always a way how to buy or sell bitcoins.

mindrust

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There is anything about bitcoin in that pdf. I searched it and found nothing. They can put a limit on withdrawals/deposits but it doesn't equal a ban.

btvGainer

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Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

Actually I believe ATM is against the concept of bitcoin.Why would you want to go to atm to buy or convert your coins when you can do it from the comfort of your home online?

dArkjON

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Quote from: Dora Doll on October 09, 2016, 08:20:40 AM

i think Europe is also a big supporter of bitcoin, i know so many people who are really using bitcoin and are also good supporter of bitcoin,

Yeah the PPL you know Support Bitcoin, but there only small Country they push Bitcoin here in Europe. The big "Europe" dont like or Support Bitcoin they hate it...

Tyger

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Personally i think of a atm as a way to get some btc quick and easy. When this becomes a law its going to be like a exchange, but i dont see the advantages anymore.
found a article btw:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/eu-central-database-bitcoin-users/

Dora Doll

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i think Europe is also a big supporter of bitcoin, i know so many people who are really using bitcoin and are also good supporter of bitcoin,

posternat

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The more that they feel that they have made the system safe for all and kept the Crypto clean of illegal activity, the less overall attention that they will be giving the system. Give them a few feet and then we take a few miles. Little by little it is going to happen.

Oralmat

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Quote from: Tyger on October 06, 2016, 10:12:37 AM

It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

There has to be some give and take along the way and we are going to have to make a few concessions if we ever expect to have a complete social and governmental acceptance. Like trying to push a bill through congress, there will be a few greased palms and scratched backs and in the end it will be worth it. The government has to strengthen that illusion of control and if they do not get at least a small amount of that control, then they are going to go nuts and make the whole system illegal.

Tyger

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yes, but on page 30 i see monthly limit of 150 euro and something about 50. thats insane low.

botany

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 06, 2016, 12:13:43 PM

Can we get a TLDR?

I think KYC/AML free ATMs are already something of a mythical thing. I've heard of ATMs wanting palm prints, photos of faces and every possible detail of your life.

That is true. ATMs only offer convenience, not anonymity.
And in a developed economy, you expect AML controls to be in place.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Can we get a TLDR?

I think KYC/AML free ATMs are already something of a mythical thing. I've heard of ATMs wanting palm prints, photos of faces and every possible detail of your life.

Tyger

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It seems you won't be buying bitcoins for cash anymore soon.
A limited amount or if you do a kyc aml:

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/criminal/document/files/aml-directive_en.pdf

Topic: Europe killing the crypto atm business (Read 1510 times)