Topic: Europe needs to be our starting point (Read 1952 times)
I'm from Spain.
We need to focus on bitcoin.org in a Belarus version, Greek Version and to a lesser extent a Spanish and Portuguese version of the site.
People in Spain, Portugal or Greek are still payed in Euro. And as long they owne EUR there is no need to trust in an "Baby Currency" like bitcoin and take the risk loosing half of your money in hours. Inflation of EUR is nearly the same in all europe countries. Because there is no special greek version of euro. I think at the moment it is better for people in this countries to keep there EUR instead to suggest them to drop there values into an experiment.
The current problem in this countries is those people need to deal with less income, increasing taxes or loosing there jobs. And this can not simply solved by deflation. The main problem is not an strong inflation. So from this point of view an deflationary currency would not solve there issues.
Dont get me wrong, i support bitcoin too and use it. But in ways where it makes hopefully sense
I also support an spanish or greek section in this forum but i do not believe in solving the debt problem of greek with bitcoin. Because if most people in greek would exchange there EUR in bitcoin they still need to pay high taxes. And believe me the greek government would not except bitcoin.
care to cite your debt cycle? Becuase honestly it seems like bunk.
Onesalt, to be fair, I don't have economic studies or background, I just see this happening over and over again. Yes, it definitely is more complicated, I cannot analyse it fully, but it makes sense to me and others also here. Don't take this as a result of any theory or set of beliefs, it's not. It's just the damn obvious fact.
I personally don't care if any Libertarian, Marxist, Keynesianist, Socialist or whatever-ist can explain this better with a theoretical background, mathematics, economic sociology or anything else. It just happens. And it creates a mess out of my life and other people's lives.
I hope you see my point of view. If there was a theory that would work, it would already have been found and applied. My view is that there is no possible solution in any of the already known economic Schools.
We need something new. But we are not yet desperate enough to actually find it. Maybe soon that will change.
All the best.
The good news for BTC, from skimming these posts, is that *everyone* appears to be in poor monetary shape. The PIIGs and USA have credit difficulties that will either result in inflation or default. China has massive inflation problems already, and at the same time, a suppressed domestic currency. Bitcoin, if adopted, would radically flatten the world, preserve the wealth of investors, and undermine all of these attempts at government controls. I'm not sure that, in the short run, that would be even be good: free capital flows can be violent and destabilizing. Still BTC would rocket, obviously.
Tuesday im 55% sure Greese will default and hell start .....
You think Europe is in bad shape? Well maybe we are but uh you USA aren't in a better shape too 
care to cite your debt cycle? Becuase honestly it seems like bunk.
You should have noticed by now that anything that supports what libertarians wants to believe is automatically seen as fact on this forum. Everything else is wrong. the euros been more stable than the Canadian and Australian dollar so yeah.
Stable -> artificially inflated -> easy credit -> increased government spending -> debt balooning -> default -> unstable -> black market -> new currency -> price balancing -> stable -> artificially inflated -> And so on ad infinitum...
I hope you understand. It's all too obvious for us Greeks. We are in the "Debt ballooning" phase. Been through the whole cycle before quite a few times. Now Europe will see what this looks like like on a 100x scale.
I would start a Bitcoin attempt here, if not for the fact that its possible failure would lead to the reinstatement of the Death penalty and public hanging for the brave soul who would do this. I have a family to take care of. This has happened too many times over again. And no, I am not a revolutionary. In fact I am probably a coward deep inside.
In a society where the overwhelming majority prefers to blame someone else instead of looking in the mirror, there is no actual freedom to do anything new.
Now if THAT changes, then yes, maybe Bitcoin or any other solid solution would stand a chance.
care to cite your debt cycle? Becuase honestly it seems like bunk.
Quote from: onesalt link=topic=21684.msg273286#msg273286
No they aren't? The euros been extremely stable compared to other world currencies, mainly because it's damped by it's enormous number of users and countries that use it. the fact that the country itself is bankrupt doesn't really effect the price of the euro (although they need to sort that shit out asap).
ECB will be bankrupt when(not IF) Greece and especially Spain go bust on their debt.
In 2 years Euro may even disappear from existance.
You better buy some CHF while you can )
The best candidate country for BTC adoption right now is Island IMHO.
Much more important for BTC is to advertise adoption in Asia.
Asia will be new economical center of civilization in coming years.
Yup, Europe may be in trouble now and for good reason, but the real meat is in Asia for sure.
We need to focus on bitcoin.org in a Belarus version, Greek Version and to a lesser extent a Spanish and Portuguese version of the site.
Look those economies are 2 inches from collapse... it's literally now or never to get some adoption rate in those countries.
My idea is that if we can get some adoption in those countries.. it can snowball from there... so we need to market them in those areas...
I think a native language version of the site along with some way to better communicate the concept of bitcoins being a financial way to save their "money" when their currency is being devalued is the best option.
Look those economies are 2 inches from collapse... it's literally now or never to get some adoption rate in those countries.
My idea is that if we can get some adoption in those countries.. it can snowball from there... so we need to market them in those areas...
I think a native language version of the site along with some way to better communicate the concept of bitcoins being a financial way to save their "money" when their currency is being devalued is the best option.
I very much agree. I just watched a movie about the Greek Crisis called 'Debtocracy', it's really good. I highly recommend it. It has some underlying socialist premises but it exposes the corruption of corporatism in the greek context
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk&feature=player_embedded
the euros been more stable than the Canadian and Australian dollar so yeah.
Stable -> artificially inflated -> easy credit -> increased government spending -> debt balooning -> default -> unstable -> black market -> new currency -> price balancing -> stable -> artificially inflated -> And so on ad infinitum...
I hope you understand. It's all too obvious for us Greeks. We are in the "Debt ballooning" phase. Been through the whole cycle before quite a few times. Now Europe will see what this looks like like on a 100x scale.
I would start a Bitcoin attempt here, if not for the fact that its possible failure would lead to the reinstatement of the Death penalty and public hanging for the brave soul who would do this. I have a family to take care of. This has happened too many times over again. And no, I am not a revolutionary. In fact I am probably a coward deep inside.
In a society where the overwhelming majority prefers to blame someone else instead of looking in the mirror, there is no actual freedom to do anything new.
Now if THAT changes, then yes, maybe Bitcoin or any other solid solution would stand a chance.
Hmm yes because people who already in dire straights are going to willingly use a currency where the value can fluctuate by 20 or 30 percent in a day.
These people are losing 20 to 30 percent a day with their national currency.... at least with bitcoins they go up and down... what they got going on is just down.
No they aren't? The euros been extremely stable compared to other world currencies, mainly because it's damped by it's enormous number of users and countries that use it. the fact that the country itself is bankrupt doesn't really effect the price of the euro (although they need to sort that shit out asap).
Infact:
the euros been more stable than the Canadian and Australian dollar so yeah.
Hmm yes because people who already in dire straights are going to willingly use a currency where the value can fluctuate by 20 or 30 percent in a day.
These people are losing 20 to 30 percent a day with their national currency.... at least with bitcoins they go up and down... what they got going on is just down.
Hmm yes because people who already in dire straights are going to willingly use a currency where the value can fluctuate by 20 or 30 percent in a day.
Why haven't I thought of this before? Supported!
We need some people who speak greek, spanish or portuguese.
We need some people who speak greek, spanish or portuguese.
I agree. bump.
We need to focus on bitcoin.org in a Belarus version, Greek Version and to a lesser extent a Spanish and Portuguese version of the site.
Look those economies are 2 inches from collapse... it's literally now or never to get some adoption rate in those countries.
My idea is that if we can get some adoption in those countries.. it can snowball from there... so we need to market them in those areas...
I think a native language version of the site along with some way to better communicate the concept of bitcoins being a financial way to save their "money" when their currency is being devalued is the best option.
Look those economies are 2 inches from collapse... it's literally now or never to get some adoption rate in those countries.
My idea is that if we can get some adoption in those countries.. it can snowball from there... so we need to market them in those areas...
I think a native language version of the site along with some way to better communicate the concept of bitcoins being a financial way to save their "money" when their currency is being devalued is the best option.
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