Every US taxpayer is now $1 million in debt

valta4065

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Quote from: Elwar on February 03, 2016, 09:20:16 AM

Quote from: mOgliE on February 03, 2016, 08:55:59 AM

No, you're borrowing again to repay it. but you borrow more or less to the same person.

The question is, what will happen when no one will lend you anymore?

Well in the case of USA it's easy, they can just print whatever amount they want until their debt (which is in fix amount of dollars) worth nothing.

Yes, I believe this is the path of least resistance from the public and will be what they will do.

The result is an ever devaluing dollar which makes a certain virtual currency a good investment.

Ahah! Yeah good point. It's why we all try to have different form of investments, like btc or gold.

Elwar

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Quote from: mOgliE on February 03, 2016, 08:55:59 AM

No, you're borrowing again to repay it. but you borrow more or less to the same person.

The question is, what will happen when no one will lend you anymore?

Well in the case of USA it's easy, they can just print whatever amount they want until their debt (which is in fix amount of dollars) worth nothing.

Yes, I believe this is the path of least resistance from the public and will be what they will do.

The result is an ever devaluing dollar which makes a certain virtual currency a good investment.

valta4065

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Quote from: mOgliE on February 03, 2016, 08:55:59 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 03, 2016, 08:23:17 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 03, 2016, 05:56:12 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

Hmm...
Well it mostly depends on what you think will happen to this debt.
Not necessary to be a genius to see that it's impossible to repay such a debt. Which means that it doesn't really exists.

But you're still paying.

$233 Billion per year goes toward just the interest on the national debt. The 6th largest spending item and growing. By 2020 it will be more than we spend on our military.

No, you're borrowing again to repay it. but you borrow more or less to the same person.

The question is, what will happen when no one will lend you anymore?

Well in the case of USA it's easy, they can just print whatever amount they want until their debt (which is in fix amount of dollars) worth nothing.

That would be incredible! Imagine tomorrow the government prints not USD but NUSD (for New USD) and they declare 1 NUSD worths 19 millions of USD. Then they go and just give one NUSD to their debittor xD

And China would be like "WTF man?"

mOgliE

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Quote from: Elwar on February 03, 2016, 08:23:17 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 03, 2016, 05:56:12 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

Hmm...
Well it mostly depends on what you think will happen to this debt.
Not necessary to be a genius to see that it's impossible to repay such a debt. Which means that it doesn't really exists.

But you're still paying.

$233 Billion per year goes toward just the interest on the national debt. The 6th largest spending item and growing. By 2020 it will be more than we spend on our military.

No, you're borrowing again to repay it. but you borrow more or less to the same person.

The question is, what will happen when no one will lend you anymore?

Well in the case of USA it's easy, they can just print whatever amount they want until their debt (which is in fix amount of dollars) worth nothing.

Elwar

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Quote from: valta4065 on February 03, 2016, 05:56:12 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

Hmm...
Well it mostly depends on what you think will happen to this debt.
Not necessary to be a genius to see that it's impossible to repay such a debt. Which means that it doesn't really exists.

But you're still paying.

$233 Billion per year goes toward just the interest on the national debt. The 6th largest spending item and growing. By 2020 it will be more than we spend on our military.

valta4065

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Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

Hmm...
Well it mostly depends on what you think will happen to this debt.
Not necessary to be a genius to see that it's impossible to repay such a debt. Which means that it doesn't really exists.

Elwar

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Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

Or Bahamians, who are also debt free.

BADecker

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Quote from: crazywack on February 02, 2016, 08:20:28 PM

This is the best news I heard all day.... Roll Eyes

Even if they stopped spending today, the debt has become unmanageable to the extent that the system will collapse under its own pressure.

Inflation to pay off debt is one option. Or saying F it and not paying the bills is the other. Not sure which way the FED will go but either is going to completely screw the USA for generations.

So much for leaving this place better for our children.

However, it is very bad news for those who live off government checks, and are unable to work, say, because of illness or old age.

crazywack

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This is the best news I heard all day.... Roll Eyes

Even if they stopped spending today, the debt has become unmanageable to the extent that the system will collapse under its own pressure.

Inflation to pay off debt is one option. Or saying F it and not paying the bills is the other. Not sure which way the FED will go but either is going to completely screw the USA for generations.

So much for leaving this place better for our children.

BADecker

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Quote from: countryfree on February 02, 2016, 08:00:52 PM

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

There is a mistake in doing this. The mistake is that you were never a citizen in the first place. You thought that you were, but you were simply domiciled on the land. You were neither citizen nor resident.

If you revoke a non-existent citizenship, you are stating that you are or were a citizen. Then, later, when you find our you were not a citizen, it is so much harder to tell them that you made a mistake in revoking non-existent citizenship.

Make sure you know what you are doing before you start filing some paperwork. Tell them you don't know anything about this citizenship/resident thing. All you know is that you are a woman/man domiciled on the land, and that you always have been such.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

There's a solution. It's possible to renounce US citizenship, and you can walk out without paying that million bucks. But I think it's better to have debt. The average American lives way better than the average Ethiopian or Somali who is totally debt-free.

BADecker

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Quote from: Balthazar on February 02, 2016, 05:59:12 PM

Congratulations to the United States, aka the biggest Ponzi scam in history.

This might be true. But the world money system might be bigger.

When the U.S. outlaws Ponzi schemes, it does away with competition.

Balthazar

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Congratulations to the United States, aka the biggest Ponzi scam in history.

BADecker

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Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 05:12:48 PM

Quote from: BADecker on February 02, 2016, 02:19:41 PM

If you don't like being a taxpayer, stop earning income. But if you have to earn income, say, to live, then let your strawman be the earner and taxpayer.

Make your strawman to be indebted to you to the tune of, say, a $trillion. Since your strawman came about at your birth - but at the latest, at the time you received your SSN - you are first lien-holder against your strawman. Nobody can claim any funds by law or court case until your strawman has paid off the $trillion it owes to you. Rather, your strawman just might increase in debt to you. See How to become a Secured Party Creditor thru UCC at http://www.abodia.com/ucc/.

So, now you are not a taxpayer. And the amount your strawman owes as a taxpayer is a mere pittance.

Nice. I just work overseas taking advantage of the overseas tax break.

Great, if you can do this. Not everyone can... easily enough to make it worthwhile.

However, don't lose out on the common law of the people. Be ready to return to America on a moment's notice. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13750733.

markj113

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Cant go on forever, just a case of when and not if the house of cards will fall.

Seems pretty obvious things are starting to move away from petrodollar and the US is starting to loose control.

xhomerx10

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All new money is created as debt. Check the net worth of America; it'sit's probably at an all time high too!

Elwar

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Quote from: BADecker on February 02, 2016, 02:19:41 PM

If you don't like being a taxpayer, stop earning income. But if you have to earn income, say, to live, then let your strawman be the earner and taxpayer.

Make your strawman to be indebted to you to the tune of, say, a $trillion. Since your strawman came about at your birth - but at the latest, at the time you received your SSN - you are first lien-holder against your strawman. Nobody can claim any funds by law or court case until your strawman has paid off the $trillion it owes to you. Rather, your strawman just might increase in debt to you. See How to become a Secured Party Creditor thru UCC at http://www.abodia.com/ucc/.

So, now you are not a taxpayer. And the amount your strawman owes as a taxpayer is a mere pittance.

Nice. I just work overseas taking advantage of the overseas tax break.

mOgliE

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Quote from: Moloch on February 02, 2016, 12:57:26 PM

Poor Science... only 0.7% of the budget Sad

Education, 2.6%...

Military budget is still more than the rest of the world spends on military combined

I don't like how they lump Social Security in with Unemployment & Labor... Social Security is a separate tax, with a separate budget (before congress stole the funds in the bank account anyway)

Yeah but that's because USA is a completely fucked up country of crazy warmongers xD

Most countries understand that sending thousands of citizens in order to kill and rape people on another continent is not the best way to spend tax money ^^

BADecker

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If you don't like being a taxpayer, stop earning income. But if you have to earn income, say, to live, then let your strawman be the earner and taxpayer.

Make your strawman to be indebted to you to the tune of, say, a $trillion. Since your strawman came about at your birth - but at the latest, at the time you received your SSN - you are first lien-holder against your strawman. Nobody can claim any funds by law or court case until your strawman has paid off the $trillion it owes to you. Rather, your strawman just might increase in debt to you. See How to become a Secured Party Creditor thru UCC at http://www.abodia.com/ucc/.

So, now you are not a taxpayer. And the amount your strawman owes as a taxpayer is a mere pittance.

Daniel91

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It's nothing new or shocking.
All countries, governments, banks, companies and average people live in the same way, borrowing money and in debt.
We don't want to wait but want to have everything right now, new cars, houses, money etc.
So, we are all the same and because of this nothing will change.
We will be always in debt and just print new money, when needed

Moloch

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Poor Science... only 0.7% of the budget Sad

Education, 2.6%...

Military budget is still more than the rest of the world spends on military combined

I don't like how they lump Social Security in with Unemployment & Labor... Social Security is a separate tax, with a separate budget (before congress stole the funds in the bank account anyway)

Elwar

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Quote from: mOgliE on February 02, 2016, 11:29:39 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 10:25:59 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 02, 2016, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 07:57:00 AM

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

I agree with you on this problem, but looking at future liabilities and backing them to the present is kind of like looking at the sum total in the present of all my school, house and car loans in the future. It is future liabilities without offsetting future income streams. In some cases, this skews the calculation. For example, the rather disgusting practice of funding retirees' social security by current income would imply that it is an "expense," instead of future liability. We don't like it, but that would be standard accounting practice.

Somewhat related - expect the US government to take over large segments of various consumer loan industries, bit by bit, just as they have the mortgage and college loan industries. These are lucrative industries if you can print money...

Well, that future income stream is your future tax money.

Yeah in a sense...
But, normally, tax money is here for a reason and participate to the fonctionnement of your country, so it's here to pay the roads, the schools, the institutions, the army...

Roads, schools, institutions...yes those are in addition to the $1 million each person is in debt to the government.

Those are not even close to our top spending items in the US.

Here are the top yearly 6 spending items in the US:

mOgliE

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Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 10:25:59 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on February 02, 2016, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 07:57:00 AM

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

I agree with you on this problem, but looking at future liabilities and backing them to the present is kind of like looking at the sum total in the present of all my school, house and car loans in the future. It is future liabilities without offsetting future income streams. In some cases, this skews the calculation. For example, the rather disgusting practice of funding retirees' social security by current income would imply that it is an "expense," instead of future liability. We don't like it, but that would be standard accounting practice.

Somewhat related - expect the US government to take over large segments of various consumer loan industries, bit by bit, just as they have the mortgage and college loan industries. These are lucrative industries if you can print money...

Well, that future income stream is your future tax money.

Yeah in a sense...
But, normally, tax money is here for a reason and participate to the fonctionnement of your country, so it's here to pay the roads, the schools, the institutions, the army...

Elwar

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Quote from: Spendulus on February 02, 2016, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 07:57:00 AM

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

I agree with you on this problem, but looking at future liabilities and backing them to the present is kind of like looking at the sum total in the present of all my school, house and car loans in the future. It is future liabilities without offsetting future income streams. In some cases, this skews the calculation. For example, the rather disgusting practice of funding retirees' social security by current income would imply that it is an "expense," instead of future liability. We don't like it, but that would be standard accounting practice.

Somewhat related - expect the US government to take over large segments of various consumer loan industries, bit by bit, just as they have the mortgage and college loan industries. These are lucrative industries if you can print money...

Well, that future income stream is your future tax money.

mOgliE

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Quote from: Spendulus on February 02, 2016, 08:48:26 AM

Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 07:57:00 AM

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

I agree with you on this problem, but looking at future liabilities and backing them to the present is kind of like looking at the sum total in the present of all my school, house and car loans in the future. It is future liabilities without offsetting future income streams. In some cases, this skews the calculation. For example, the rather disgusting practice of funding retirees' social security by current income would imply that it is an "expense," instead of future liability. We don't like it, but that would be standard accounting practice.

Somewhat related - expect the US government to take over large segments of various consumer loan industries, bit by bit, just as they have the mortgage and college loan industries. These are lucrative industries if you can print money...

You think they will do?
Might be wrong but for me expect the US government to not do that. Afterall, politicians don't care for national debt but for personnal profits. I think anything lucrative enough will be sold to private companies. Sadly enough it's what's happening in EU currently... And yet the people wonder "why we have so much debt".
Dude, it's because your ugly corrupted government sold every bit of lucrative income they had to their friends and families...

Spendulus

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Quote from: Elwar on February 02, 2016, 07:57:00 AM

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

I agree with you on this problem, but looking at future liabilities and backing them to the present is kind of like looking at the sum total in the present of all my school, house and car loans in the future. It is future liabilities without offsetting future income streams. In some cases, this skews the calculation. For example, the rather disgusting practice of funding retirees' social security by current income would imply that it is an "expense," instead of future liability. We don't like it, but that would be standard accounting practice.

Somewhat related - expect the US government to take over large segments of various consumer loan industries, bit by bit, just as they have the mortgage and college loan industries. These are lucrative industries if you can print money...

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

The US Federal government is now over $19 trillion in debt. That's over $158k per taxpayer.
The US Federal government's unfunded liabilities (things the government promised to give out in the future, think contracts with defense contractors, promised pensions, social security, medicaire, etc.) are over $100 trillion which is over $844k per taxpayer.
Every US taxpayer is now on the hook for over $1 million, just for the debts and future obligations of our government. That doesn't include the yearly expenses of roads, schools, military, etc.

In essence, if you are a US taxpayer, you are $1 million in debt to the US Federal government. As long as you are paying taxes, you will be paying that debt. Plus you are paying for current government programs.

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