Topic: Expect new IRS crypto surveillance to come with a surge in confiscation (Read 180 times)

This is a waste of time because cryptocurrencies will be tightly controlled in the US and Europe. Since in the USA each state still has local legislation, you can look for refuge in one of the states with a loyal attitude towards cryptocurrencies. And then there is Canada, which has more lenient legislation. But I advise you to look at which offshore companies Sam Bankman Fried registered his companies in and trade there with minimal taxes.

sometimes there is like with this IRS proposed form 1099-DA but i think sometimes what happens is things get sneaked into larger bills and the public doesn't even know it. that's how lawmakers want it so they can get laws on the books without the public knowing about it until it's already too late.
plus you have to think by now, these evil lawmakers know exactly what they are doing and couldn't give a damn what people think as long as it doesn't cost them too much like their job.

Is there really no way for the community to argue against this kind of law? I suspect almost every crypto user would be uncomfortable with such a law. I'm referring to something like a judicial review or something similar, not just a protest or demonstration on the street. I guess that will be easier if crypto becomes mainstream and most people use it, but if it stays niche then the government can easily crush any opposition. CMIIW.

But you only have 2 options. Or do you obey these laws? Are you looking for ways to disobey these laws with minimal risks to yourself. If in your country a citizen who does not declare cryptocurrency is a potential terrorist, then maybe you should study the laws of South American countries and think about emigrating.

i think the WRONG people are already leaders that's why they're trying to shove this type of legislation through already!


it would more likely be someone that had alot of money that they caught for something else or something else raised a red flag and then they find out that person uses crypto they'll sieze that without any due process.

of course, if they did see you browsing bitcointalk, they would look up and see if you declared any crypto on your tax returns if not then that's their foot in the door to coming and seizing your crypto maybe. without any due process of law.


yeah that's what they do they want to restrict americans freedoms to transact globally. keep them under their thumb. tell them what they can't do. ... how its always been with government. plus they want a cut of anything you DO do.

One more reason to not fill any personal document forms for any thing related to Cryptocurrencies.  It is not about what can happen NOW.  Think about the future.  What can go wrong if the wrong people become leaders and write law.

This is really concerning to me.  Some body said here it is not hard to exchange Bitcoin for Fiat privately.  It is not hard but there is a thing you forget.

If this kind of Surveillance ends up with confiscation from mere SUSPICION then it will be hard to avoid a suspicion from them.  They can suspect you of hiding information from them by only looking at your browsing history the provider gives them.  You looked up the Goods and Trading boards of Bitcoin Talk often so you are suspicious.  Something like that.

What if they suspect you of owning Bitcoin and some how connect the dots.  Say you used Tor at all times but got drunk once and forgot about it.  Or were using Tor and accidentally logged into a personal account somewhere.  You will be screwed.  I presume there will be very rough punishments for hiding.

How private can you be really.  I am trying my best and even I know there are ways they can connect the dots to find me.  But I am still not important to them yet and what can I do after all.  I do the best I can.  Once they come for those like me I know the world will be in hell already.  When they go after people who simply want to mind their own business it is very bad.

I guess so, but the context is really different iirc. There's no urgency in confiscating people's crypto compared to the gold crisis. While USA's debt keeps increasing, I don't think they are desperate to find ways to pay it. CMIIW.

Sometimes I feel lucky I don't live in the US. My country's regulation for crypto tax is quite lax. While it is possible to change them, I doubt they'd be as aggressive as the US considering how niche the market is. Even if it becomes more mainstream, other sources of taxes are more abundant and easily accessible for the government as of now.

but if you don't disclose on your tax returns that you sold some bitcoin, they would consider that tax evasion. and there's probably a penalty for that. if they found out...

plus if you ever get busted for doing that then they'll keep a tight watch on you forever. you'll be flagged in their system forever. 

Typically, government agencies take data from official sources, which can be crypto exchanges, registered crypto stores, and any service where you undergo verification.
If you do not link your coins to such services, then you have a greater chance of remaining undetected.
Nowadays there are still enough exchanges where you can trade via VPN without verification.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5461917

yeah it's not the ideal example the more ideal example would be they know your cryptocurrency addresses because you were sloppy and they traced them from coinbase and now they want you to hand over all your bitcoin. and if you don't then you're breaking the law even though a judge never signed off on anything. that's the type of thing that could happen. it's probably not going to happen to everyone though. but it will probably happen to someone eventually if they get this law on the books. expect it to be used as a tool for extracting more money out of people suspected of crimes but not yet convicted like they say they arrest you on suspicion of drugs then they decide "you know what, we should sieze all his crypto because he's probably guilty probably been laundering money."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/11/09/irs-uses-funding-to-audit-wealthy/71486513007/
The Internal Revenue Service recently announced a campaign to dramatically increase audits of high-income Americans and large businesses, leveraging billions of dollars in new funding from Congress to recover lost tax revenue.


If the IRS could, I'm sure they would use administrative forfeiture to sieze someone's crypto who they thought owed them money. Maybe they already do that, I don't know.

But it's crazy how on one hand they want to be cracking down on rich people but on the other hand we're letting people flood into the country and overwhelm our welfare system. Oh well! I guess that's not so bad though. there's a certain point where people don't really need to own more things or have more money and it would be better used to help less fortunate.

But this is not a very good example to be honest.
You give an example of one extreme, but even if you are in the USA and live as an honest citizen, then you can easily exchange bitcoins for cash from private money changers and spend this money wherever you want.
Although the laws in the USA are terrible, and if your partner is arrested and cooperates with the investigation, then you will have problems.

They said even in the mere suspicions. But I think this will not be confiscation but probably they will buy the BTC for a fixed price and then impose tax on it. 

Since that time they have been training 85,000 IRS agents, I think they were already planning all these. I wasn't old enough to be in the 1930s but at that time the government was about to confiscate gold from the people eventually they bought those gold from the people. I guess the history is repeating itself, only this time its digital.

Is this even legal? What's the prerequisite before they confiscate your coins? It would be disastrous if a random person can get thrown in jail just because they have money. Won't this just make people go underground and make it harder for them to track their activities too?

probably if they suspect you of holding out on them then they can throw you in jail. just like they did with kevin trudeau.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau

In 2013, facing further prosecution for violations of the 2011 agreement and non-payment of the $37 million judgment, Trudeau filed for bankruptcy protection.[6] His claims of insolvency were challenged by FTC lawyers, who maintained that he was hiding money in shell companies, and cited examples of continued lavish spending, such as $359 for a haircut.[7]

In November 2013, Trudeau was convicted of criminal contempt,[8][9] and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison in March 2014.


he said he didn't have the money, they said he did and he went to jail.

Seems that they don't know how Cryptocurrencies works

That only can happen if you surrender your seeds to them. Never do that guys, never surrender your seeds to them store it securely.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.61615061
"However, I believe that a limit will put all these to end. All these incorrect uses of Bitcoin, all govern and bank extortions, all the abuses of crypto exchanges.

And this limit will be reached when enough people will suffer from their greed, from their naïveté, from their stupidity. When enough of them will have criminal records and when enough of them will have to serve jail time. Only a drastic suffering will be able to open people's eyes.

And, when this will happen, bitcoiners will finally stop using exchanges. They will stop holding in bank accounts their fiat incomes obtained from crypto activities. Some will even avoid using fiat money. If all these will happen, then individuals will finally start using Bitcoin the way Satoshi created it: for their own benefit, for rendering governs and banks as irrelevant, for eliminating any middle man, for anonymizing their financial deals, for being their own bankers, for owning their private keys instead of allowing exchanges having them."(C)

How does administrative forfeiture from a non-custodial wallet work?

https://cointelegraph.com/news/expect-new-irs-crypto-surveillance-come-with-surge-confiscation

The Justice Department is claiming that it's "critical" for it to have the power to seize cryptocurrency from Americans — even if a judge never signs off.

this is very dangerous grounds, guys. it's called "administrative forfeiture" and if that ever happens then we're really in big trouble. in the usa.