Exploring existing chips/soc/processor for bitcoin mining

dropt

legendary

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Quote from: papamoi on March 26, 2013, 08:10:57 AM

thanks

just regarding the software,for the asic,does any one have contacts or knows people who can modifiy existing open source soft for making it run on the asics?

thanks

Ask user Kano.

Should I just bill you for my time thus far? My going rate is $57.62 CAD/hr, in 1 hour blocks, minimum 1 block.

PS: How the software interacts depends entirely on how you implement your ASIC design and how/what you use to interface with it (the ASIC).

papamoi

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: papamoi on March 26, 2013, 08:10:57 AM

thanks

just regarding the software,for the asic,does any one have contacts or knows people who can modifiy existing open source soft for making it run on the asics?

thanks

You really don't get what ASIC's are do you? The internal design of the chip IS the code, its a program in hardware. (that's way over simplified but I guess that's whats needed :/ ).

really

how clever are you

papamoi

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thanks

just regarding the software,for the asic,does any one have contacts or knows people who can modifiy existing open source soft for making it run on the asics?

thanks

dropt

legendary

Activity: 1512

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Quote from: papamoi on March 25, 2013, 02:00:14 AM

please avoid spam and waste of time of yours and mine

thanks

Here, e-mail these guys: [email protected]

I hear they're pretty good at getting ASICS out the door.

papamoi

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Quote from: r.willis on March 25, 2013, 01:50:56 AM

You would attract more serious people if you offer something like
"I'm searching an able person to design breakthrough mining solution. Willing to pay 20k$/month for 6 month. Good track record of FPGA design required".
But you clearly do not understand how custom mining hardware work, and asking about "newer chips". Do you consider community this dumb not to try every option available?
Everything has been tried. The only solutions left are the ones which require serious investments (ASICs).

please avoid spam and waste of time of yours and mine

thanks

r.willis

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You would attract more serious people if you offer something like
"I'm searching an able person to design breakthrough mining solution. Willing to pay 20k$/month for 6 month. Good track record of FPGA design required".
But you clearly do not understand how custom mining hardware work, and asking about "newer chips". Do you consider community this dumb not to try every option available?
Everything has been tried. The only solutions left are the ones which require serious investments (ASICs).

papamoi

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Quote from: repentance on March 24, 2013, 06:42:19 PM

The reason people are skeptical is because you know nothing about the technical side of such a venture and you're not giving any information which suggests that you have the capital to fund it or the project management experience to oversee it.

You say that you're "offering something like a job" but not giving any information about who you are and how you could afford to employ staff and contractors to work on this venture. Exactly what are you bringing to the table? And especially, what makes it likely that you'll succeed where others have failed?

again read my previous posts,

there is noone forcing you to believe what i m saying and i do not have anything else to add

it seems either my englsih is bad or you seems not to understand

in both case,i m only interested in serious people who knows both how bitcoin is working and how to build a processor able to mine at high speed

thanks

please in pm only

repentance

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The reason people are skeptical is because you know nothing about the technical side of such a venture and you're not giving any information which suggests that you have the capital to fund it or the project management experience to oversee it.

You say that you're "offering something like a job" but not giving any information about who you are and how you could afford to employ staff and contractors to work on this venture. Exactly what are you bringing to the table? And especially, what makes it likely that you'll succeed where others have failed?

papamoi

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Quote from: meowmeowbrowncow on March 24, 2013, 05:17:46 PM

I have engineering contacts at Cisco. At least a couple of forum members here have extensive MOSFAB experience.

People just don't seem willing to pull together on this.

well that s their own problem, i am offering something like a job and getting loosers coming in shouting

anyway,life s goes on

meowmeowbrowncow

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I have engineering contacts at Cisco. At least a couple of forum members here have extensive MOSFAB experience.

People just don't seem willing to pull together on this.

papamoi

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Quote from: repentance on March 24, 2013, 03:52:42 PM

Nobody's going to take you seriously when it's obvious that you haven't done the slightest amount of research yourself. You're coming across as an "ideas man" who doesn't have the first clue how to bring a project like this to fruition and wants someone else to do all the work.

That you're not a technical person is worrying given the technical problems which a project like this will inevitably face. We've already seen the results of people trying to contract out the process of developing mining hardware and the results aren't pretty.

Spamming about this all over the board isn't going to increase the likelihood of making it happen.

In fact, what are you going to be bringing to the table. You're asking others to share their knowledge with you, but you haven't mentioned exactly what you'd be able to bring to such a project. Capital? Contacts? We know you don't have technical ability and we know you don't have project management ability (you'd have already researched this yourself and providing us with information if you did).

1/no one has forced to reply to this subject
2/if i mentionned pm is that i don t want to discuss all the feasbility and availibity in public?
3/there is some companies/people out there able to handle this type of project
so in conclusion this is the reason i ve posted

so in my humble opinion you are the one who is spamming as you didn t bring any thing interesting on all this

so let s move to the subject please

thanks

aTg

legendary

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Quote from: repentance on March 24, 2013, 03:52:42 PM

Nobody's going to take you seriously when it's obvious that you haven't done the slightest amount of research yourself. You're coming across as an "ideas man" who doesn't have the first clue how to bring a project like this to fruition and wants someone else to do all the work.

That you're not a technical person is worrying given the technical problems which a project like this will inevitably face. We've already seen the results of people trying to contract out the process of developing mining hardware and the results aren't pretty.

Spamming about this all over the board isn't going to increase the likelihood of making it happen.

In fact, what are you going to be bringing to the table. You're asking others to share their knowledge with you, but you haven't mentioned exactly what you'd be able to bring to such a project. Capital? Contacts? We know you don't have technical ability and we know you don't have project management ability (you'd have already researched this yourself and providing us with information if you did).

With that is all said, and can be applied to all messages of the same type that appear every day at forum.

r.willis

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I do not know.

papamoi

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Quote from: r.willis on March 24, 2013, 03:57:34 PM

Yes, you can buy IP core, do some interface work and contract someone to make driver for your hardware to work with cgminer or other similar software.
If you are not techie, I'd suggest you stray clear of such things - at least until you find someone really good to do technical side for you.

ok now let s see how much is the delivery time of this

and at wich costs

so in between the 3 do you know which one have the best quality/speed to cost ratio?

r.willis

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Yes, you can buy IP core, do some interface work and contract someone to make driver for your hardware to work with cgminer or other similar software.
If you are not techie, I'd suggest you stray clear of such things - at least until you find someone really good to do technical side for you.

repentance

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Activity: 868

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Nobody's going to take you seriously when it's obvious that you haven't done the slightest amount of research yourself. You're coming across as an "ideas man" who doesn't have the first clue how to bring a project like this to fruition and wants someone else to do all the work.

That you're not a technical person is worrying given the technical problems which a project like this will inevitably face. We've already seen the results of people trying to contract out the process of developing mining hardware and the results aren't pretty.

Spamming about this all over the board isn't going to increase the likelihood of making it happen.

In fact, what are you going to be bringing to the table. You're asking others to share their knowledge with you, but you haven't mentioned exactly what you'd be able to bring to such a project. Capital? Contacts? We know you don't have technical ability and we know you don't have project management ability (you'd have already researched this yourself and providing us with information if you did).

soniq

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Anybody looked at POET technology? not even sure if its available or applies?

papamoi

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Quote from: r.willis on March 24, 2013, 03:34:09 PM

Structured ASICs use same/similar tools as FPGA. Languages used to program them are the same used for FPGAs, so existing designs are easy to port (may be with minor adaptations/tuning).
You can find out where to get hardware if you follow link a gave earlier.

between the 3 names wich one you suggest?

beside also there is lot of ip cores available for sha256 logic so you have to buy design tweak/tune it and you are ready to go

(i m not techie)so i can be wrong

r.willis

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Structured ASICs use same/similar tools as FPGA. Languages used to program them are the same used for FPGAs, so existing designs are easy to port (may be with minor adaptations/tuning).
You can find out where to get hardware if you follow link a gave earlier.

Photon939

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Quote from: papamoi on March 24, 2013, 02:50:08 PM

Quote from: aTg on March 24, 2013, 02:38:27 PM

Quote from: r.willis on March 24, 2013, 02:33:48 PM

The only alternative to reals ASICs is structured ASICs. Faster time-to-market, but not as efficient as custom ASIC.

Avalon is a structured asic.
300MH/s for chip, only 44MH/s more than a Spartan6 FPGA

so where to get these?and for yesterday?

They won't just give you their design, you'd have to create your own.

Bogart

legendary

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I believe Avalon is not a sASIC (hard copy), but rather is a "standard cell" ASIC.

Speaking of exploring new processors, I think it would be interesting to see how the upcoming Parallella platform does for Bitcoin mining (or Litecoin). I don't expect it will be any kind of breakthrough performance, but it would still be interesting to try.

papamoi

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Quote from: aTg on March 24, 2013, 02:38:27 PM

Quote from: r.willis on March 24, 2013, 02:33:48 PM

The only alternative to reals ASICs is structured ASICs. Faster time-to-market, but not as efficient as custom ASIC.

Avalon is a structured asic.
300MH/s for chip, only 44MH/s more than a Spartan6 FPGA

so where to get these?and for yesterday?

aTg

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: r.willis on March 24, 2013, 02:33:48 PM

The only alternative to reals ASICs is structured ASICs. Faster time-to-market, but not as efficient as custom ASIC.

Avalon is a structured asic.
300MH/s for chip, only 44MH/s more than a Spartan6 FPGA

r.willis

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The only alternative to reals ASICs is structured ASICs. Faster time-to-market, but not as efficient as custom ASIC.

filharvey

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Has anyone used the Stratix V for mining. What sort of mining speed can be done on it? I know they are expensive, but once it is working on this, how much does it cost to get a Hard Copy made and what are the min numbers for chips to be made.

Also the same with Virtex-6 and Virtex-7, then getting chips made with Easy Path?

I'm assuming this is what Avalon did with their chips. Or something similar anyway.

Phil

Photon939

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Quote from: papamoi on March 24, 2013, 11:33:43 AM

Quote from: Photon939 on March 24, 2013, 11:27:52 AM

Quote from: papamoi on March 24, 2013, 10:46:27 AM

hi photon

could give a rough estimate in time and dollar of a machine based on recent chip to achieve something around 100 giga/s/system?

thanks

Taking a look at Mouser, an Altera Stratix V, a 28nm FPGA with 2560 logic blocks (the smallest in the Stratix IV family they sell) has a chip price of $8,317.00 PER CHIP, with no quantity discounts.

I have no experience with programming FPGAs, but lets say you get 10x the performance of the local community favorite the Spartan 6 LX150 FPGA, while using 1/5th the power requirement. (basically impossible with only 2560 logic blocks)

This gives you 4 GH/s per chip while consuming 4W (keep in mind im pulling these numbers out of my ass), 1GH/J this puts you on par with BFL's estimates for power consumption.

Problem is, you unit now costs $124,755 JUST FOR THE FPGAs. To be comparable with a BFL Single in speed and power consumption.

i need real and sourced numbers not speculation so if someone have them please let me know

thanks

Sorry to disappoint you, but while my numbers are "speculation" they give you a ballpark that tells you that the goal you want to accomplish is basically impossible.

Unless you want to go spin custom silicon at 65nm or lower, you will probably not be able to turn a profit, and that's assuming very good competence in the industry.

papamoi

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Quote from: aTg on March 24, 2013, 11:23:18 AM

The most profitable FPGA costs about 75 € the cheapest you can get, while an ASIC Avalon is around 5 € if you do the math.
That is unbeatable by any other programmable chip.

are you basing your calculation on recent chips?

there was many new chips came to markets since these last 3/6 months

did you done your maths with the recent one ,came in march?

did you done with soc?or with assp?

thanks

papamoi

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Quote from: Photon939 on March 24, 2013, 11:27:52 AM

Quote from: papamoi on March 24, 2013, 10:46:27 AM

hi photon

could give a rough estimate in time and dollar of a machine based on recent chip to achieve something around 100 giga/s/system?

thanks

Taking a look at Mouser, an Altera Stratix V, a 28nm FPGA with 2560 logic blocks (the smallest in the Stratix IV family they sell) has a chip price of $8,317.00 PER CHIP, with no quantity discounts.

I have no experience with programming FPGAs, but lets say you get 10x the performance of the local community favorite the Spartan 6 LX150 FPGA, while using 1/5th the power requirement. (basically impossible with only 2560 logic blocks)

This gives you 4 GH/s per chip while consuming 4W (keep in mind im pulling these numbers out of my ass), 1GH/J this puts you on par with BFL's estimates for power consumption.

Problem is, you unit now costs $124,755 JUST FOR THE FPGAs. To be comparable with a BFL Single in speed and power consumption.

i need real and sourced numbers not speculation so if someone have them please let me know

thanks

papamoi

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atg,

the price avalon is selling is no longer the same and beside you have to wait 2 months to get it

so my math is quickly done unless someone can find these asic in wholesale and we could find assemblers for this

Photon939

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Quote from: papamoi on March 24, 2013, 10:46:27 AM

hi photon

could give a rough estimate in time and dollar of a machine based on recent chip to achieve something around 100 giga/s/system?

thanks

Taking a look at Mouser, an Altera Stratix V, a 28nm FPGA with 2560 logic blocks (the smallest in the Stratix IV family they sell) has a chip price of $8,317.00 PER CHIP, with no quantity discounts.

I have no experience with programming FPGAs, but lets say you get 10x the performance of the local community favorite the Spartan 6 LX150 FPGA, while using 1/5th the power requirement. (basically impossible with only 2560 logic blocks)

This gives you 4 GH/s per chip while consuming 4W (keep in mind im pulling these numbers out of my ass), 1GH/J this puts you on par with BFL's estimates for power consumption.

Problem is, you unit now costs $124,755 JUST FOR THE FPGAs. To be comparable with a BFL Single in speed and power consumption.

aTg

legendary

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The most profitable FPGA costs about 75 € the cheapest you can get, while an ASIC Avalon is around 5 € if you do the math.
That is unbeatable by any other programmable chip.

papamoi

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Activity: 378

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hi photon

could give a rough estimate in time and dollar of a machine based on recent chip to achieve something around 100 giga/s/system?

thanks

Photon939

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Quote from: niko on March 24, 2013, 10:42:25 AM

The question is: have FPGA miners had time to evolve to their technical limits, or the ASIC race took away the resources? Is there room for improvement for FPGAs? By improvement, I mean $s/hash, J/hash, or both.

There is certainly room for improvement for FPGAs, but the main problem is that as you go up in FPGA performance their price goes up very quickly. A very modern FPGA may be able to beat Avalon in terms of Mhash/W but would cost thousands of dollars just for the chip, let alone the board and supporting components, housing, power supply, etc.

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

The question is: have FPGA miners had time to evolve to their technical limits, or the ASIC race took away the resources? Is there room for improvement for FPGAs? By improvement, I mean $s/hash, J/hash, or both.

papamoi

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there is lot of new chips have came to markets since

maybe there is way to improve this?

Photon939

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This has already been done, it's called FPGAs. They have been made obsolete like the units released by Avalon and BFL (if BFL ever gets around to shipping anything)

At this point, custom silicon is pretty much required to match Avalon level performance at a competitive price.

papamoi

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hi guys,

i m planning to make build bitcoin mining device with speed similar or better than asic and would need technical helps for this.

as you know we are running after time and the idea is to use programmable existing chips in the markets to achieve this.

i need people who have experience in this already and have ideas so we can start/finish it very quickly

Anyone who have experiences are welcome,please contact me thru pm

thanks

Topic: Exploring existing chips/soc/processor for bitcoin mining (Read 4219 times)