Extreme lameness of Keynesian economics

Xester

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Quote from: semaforo on May 05, 2017, 03:21:38 PM

I was just thinking about Keynes statement when asked about some long term concerns "In the long run, we're all dead."

What a cop out. If we consider that time and space are a continuum, a limited temporal perspective also translates to a limited spatial perspective.

This might help to explain why the policies in place in many industrialized countries have such disastrous consequences for places like Africa and Latin America. A national perspective is externalizing all negative consequences, or at least as many as possible.

The problem being, eventually these consequences come back in one way or another, and you realize that externalizing them was just a form of mental trickery or self deception.

I agree with your statement that in the long run we are all dead. Life is short and we will die of course, no one is immortal. But the problem lies not death but on how we will die and what kind of life do we have today. As you have said consequence come back in one way or another, it just means that the development that we are longing at the price of the destruction of environmental balance will also affect us in our daily lives making our physical, mental, and spiritual health prone to illness not only by physical pollution and toxic but also by immorality.

freedomno1

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Quote from: semaforo on May 05, 2017, 03:21:38 PM

I was just thinking about Keynes statement when asked about some long term concerns "In the long run, we're all dead."

What a cop out. If we consider that time and space are a continuum, a limited temporal perspective also translates to a limited spatial perspective.

This might help to explain why the policies in place in many industrialized countries have such disastrous consequences for places like Africa and Latin America. A national perspective is externalizing all negative consequences, or at least as many as possible.

The problem being, eventually these consequences come back in one way or another, and you realize that externalizing them was just a form of mental trickery or self deception.

Well when Keynes said that he probably was implying that people have short term goals and do not plan long term ones that well. It's similar to how the election cycle is 4 years so governments usually only focus on those years and not passing the baton. When mixed with civil war such as in Africa there is little government incentive to help them and for the leaders there little incentive for someone to improve the situation but more to extract as much as they can before taken out of power hence we get chaos. Good old development economics meets the global south. Resource extraction to feed the engine of the first world with cheap minerals and then products resold to them at 3x the base price.
Capitalism at its finest.

semaforo

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When they start to care about those at the gate? Not sure what is meant with this.

The American economy and its infrastructure was already built based on major harm to native Americans and Africans. The loss of manpower and warfare associated with the heavy demand for slaves to work plantations in the newly empty Americas had such an impact to destabilize the African economy to such an extent that it probably has still not recovered today, particularly if we consider these wars weakened African civilizations to an extent to pave the way for colonization, where the governing institutions still in place today were built up in order to serve and further develop the infrastructure of the 'developed' economies.

Even in the 40s and 50s, coffee and bananas were already a big part of American culture, and oil dependence further required the development of export industries.The CIA was already known for overthrowing democratically elected leaders in Latin American "banana republics" to secure the interests of American companies.

MingLee

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Quote from: semaforo on May 05, 2017, 03:21:38 PM

I was just thinking about Keynes statement when asked about some long term concerns "In the long run, we're all dead."

What a cop out. If we consider that time and space are a continuum, a limited temporal perspective also translates to a limited spatial perspective.

This might help to explain why the policies in place in many industrialized countries have such disastrous consequences for places like Africa and Latin America. A national perspective is externalizing all negative consequences, or at least as many as possible.

The problem being, eventually these consequences come back in one way or another, and you realize that externalizing them was just a form of mental trickery or self deception.

I can give you a better reason for why stuff goes to shit in some portions of the world, but most people won't like the answer to why it happens.
Keep in mind 1940s and 1950s America was able to do fine with industrial policies in place and very little was being externalized, there was large production within their borders and they were able to avoid most of the negative consequences that are apparently a big issue elsewhere in the world.
Countries experience the negative consequences coming back at them when they start to care about those at the gates. Which is the mistake. Beyond that, they have a low likelihood of experiencing issues.
If the rest of the world was like the developed world (in more ways than one) it would be possible to avoid the negatives almost entirely. Lack of infrastructure (among other issues) causes certain places to do poorly.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: Hydrogen on May 06, 2017, 08:25:01 PM

I'm not certain if Keynes was a vaporware economist.

I had to LOL a little at this comment. This thread is producing the sound of crickets. Not surprising, since probably most people on this forum have never studied economics--and I've taken some college-level econ courses, and I can't remember jack shit about Keynesian stuff. I recall my profs mentioning it, but I recall even more strongly that I was sweating my ass off because the classroom had no air conditioning and it was summer.

I didn't understand a word of what OP wrote here. But perhaps it's too late in the day, and my neurons have exhausted their daily supply of chemicals. Maybe the meds aren't working.

Also, I don't trust economists. Any of them. Collectively, they are much like meteorologists and are frequently so far off the mark it's laughable.

semaforo

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Not sure what you mean by vaporware, but I do think he was serving the political agenda of creating the post ww2 order, so maybe he was handpicked not because his ideas were good but because they were suitable.

Hydrogen

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I'm not certain if Keynes was a vaporware economist.

In my experience, those who apply economic theory to trading or making predictions are usually much better & more reliable than vaporware economists like Marx.

Many economists and experts are merely mouthpieces for pro bank / pro corporate politics which tends to complicate things.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: semaforo on May 05, 2017, 03:21:38 PM

I was just thinking about Keynes statement when asked about some long term concerns "In the long run, we're all dead."

What a cop out. If we consider that time and space are a continuum, a limited temporal perspective also translates to a limited spatial perspective.

This might help to explain why the policies in place in many industrialized countries have such disastrous consequences for places like Africa and Latin America. A national perspective is externalizing all negative consequences, or at least as many as possible.

The problem being, eventually these consequences come back in one way or another, and you realize that externalizing them was just a form of mental trickery or self deception.

Come back, like rapefugees, no?

True we'll all be dead but then we also have to think of the quality of life lived. Those in 1st World countries can only keep turning away at some point. Can't blame it all on their public though, they're acting human and as humans, what matters most to us is what is near and can be seen.

semaforo

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I was just thinking about Keynes statement when asked about some long term concerns "In the long run, we're all dead."

What a cop out. If we consider that time and space are a continuum, a limited temporal perspective also translates to a limited spatial perspective.

This might help to explain why the policies in place in many industrialized countries have such disastrous consequences for places like Africa and Latin America. A national perspective is externalizing all negative consequences, or at least as many as possible.

The problem being, eventually these consequences come back in one way or another, and you realize that externalizing them was just a form of mental trickery or self deception.

Topic: Extreme lameness of Keynesian economics (Read 534 times)