Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

Mometaskers

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Quote from: sovie on June 24, 2022, 03:39:47 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 24, 2022, 09:32:23 AM

It's still pretty big here in the developing world. Politicians here even pay trolls to harass opponents supporters there.

the best among all the social media are twitter. I was so fond of facebook a year ago but now I have switched to twitter.
Although they have strict rules. But if you want to connect to intellectual people - twitter is the best option no matter what.

I didn't bother making a Twitter account. All I need to do is watch some compilations of meltdowns there to know I wouldn't be able to handle any of that shit. The only sm I open these days are Reddit (I usually just follow hobby boards and stay away from anything political, etc) and Youtube, if it can even be called an sm (and I just watch vids and don't upload anything).

If I was handsome or had anything beautiful to show I would probably have an IG.

sovie

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 24, 2022, 09:32:23 AM

It's still pretty big here in the developing world. Politicians here even pay trolls to harass opponents supporters there.

the best among all the social media are twitter. I was so fond of facebook a year ago but now I have switched to twitter.
Although they have strict rules. But if you want to connect to intellectual people - twitter is the best option no matter what.

Mometaskers

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Not much that we can do unfortunately. All those hearings went nowhere.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on June 20, 2022, 01:09:36 PM

Personal stuff such as stories, selfies and videos? Indeed. But, stuff like private messages (which aren't private, lol) are needed, to contact your friends, co-workers, employers etc. I don't say there aren't alternatives, but since that's what most people use, you're, essentially, forced to have it too.

Hence the need for alternatives. The problem though is that those either get killed in the cradle or taken over.

Quote from: Plaguedeath on June 21, 2022, 08:44:16 AM

Is there anyone in this year still using Facebook? it's a cringey social media with full of old people who posted his daily activity to expose their privacy.

Now Instagram is the most biggest social media, but it's linked with Meta aka Facebook, so the best way is avoid social medias that has collect your data.

It's still pretty big here in the developing world. Politicians here even pay trolls to harass opponents supporters there.

theCommittalist

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The social media giants come out of a context where freedom of thought & expression were fundamental to the national constitution, and while no longer being the most interesting or perhaps even important factor, that still remains crucial.

I don't think it is about websites owing anyone freedom of speech, or even states owing anyone freedom of speech, but rather that neither social media giant platforms or nation states have any ethical right to take it away from anyone. These sorts of issues were formative to the revolutionary European ideas that gave birth to the 'American way of life'.

The only way organisations and companies can remove the right to free thought & expression is then unethically, by force of coercion & subtle scare tactics, which is something to worry about.

Think about it, what kind of problem-solving intelligence or expression of interesting ideas is not 'free' but instead controlled by the bigger boys? I think we should be very careful about the development of that kind of culture.

Everybody should be able to say what they think, ask questions & voice disagreement without the threat of being taken out to the woods by a secretive circle of old fogies.

Gyfts

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The social media giants don't actually owe anyone the right to free speech.

They become de facto town square, as Elon Musk puts it, which warrants at least some ability to speak freely without censorship.

Quote from: jackg on June 20, 2022, 12:32:28 PM

Most popular social media is annoying though as paid content gets boosted the most out of everything and can also lead to misinformation and manipulation of the viewers (which itself can undermine both free speech and democracy).

This is what the censorship folks argue and it only holds true when the solution isn't censoring the dissent. If everything I disagree with is disinformation, then what sort of democracy is left? I don't trust the government in dictating what's disinformation or not. I don't trust Facebook to determine that either. It's their platform, so they can do what they want. But it's no secret the government would love nothing more than to control the social media outlets to support their political ambitions.

TheNineClub

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Free speech is not something that's an issue on just US social media or is it a rhing of the US per se, rather it's a knee jerk reaction to standard bussines concepts of being responsible to it shareholders and their bottom line, so the idea is not to stray to far from the center as that brings in the most people and with that more money.

theCommittalist

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Do they have automatic translation for all users though?

And do you think it will go mainstream? I know many have an instinct that mainstream is 'uncool', but I have a feeling that decentralised global communication with automatic translations for all users who choose their fluency could be really important.

dataispower

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Quote from: sovie on June 20, 2022, 01:20:12 PM

Quote from: gweb1996 on June 20, 2022, 12:11:13 PM

Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

“Whether you like Facebook or not, we need to recognize what is at stake and come together to stand for free expression at this critical moment,” he said.

But after being deluged with misinformation about COVID-19, hate, and false claims of election fraud—some of which came directly from then-President Donald Trump—Facebook has all but said: "Nevermind, forget what our CEO said."

Under fire, the company has almost entirely reversed course on its free speech haven by clamping down on hate, increasing penalties for users who repeatedly share misinformation, and linking readers of any post related to COVID-19 to information from government sources.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/04/facebook-free-speech-politicians-policy-newsworthiness-hate-speech-misinformation/

I have already stopped using fb - I don't know but I am switched to twitter already.
Fb and instagram have some strict policies and so does twitter. And also it is good to keep your emotions in control while posting on social media. My 2 cents.

different people like different social media, i can see that people have started getting afraid of Facebook social media because of it control and it's level of deviates altitude of scam. Facebook has different criteria and policies which guide it and restricted some measure that guide it. Even people who is using social media is not safe of using both Instagram and twitter. What i will contribute is that all the social media have it's policy's

RussianEnglishTranslation

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Quote from: gweb1996 on June 20, 2022, 12:11:13 PM

Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

“Whether you like Facebook or not, we need to recognize what is at stake and come together to stand for free expression at this critical moment,” he said.

But after being deluged with misinformation about COVID-19, hate, and false claims of election fraud—some of which came directly from then-President Donald Trump—Facebook has all but said: "Nevermind, forget what our CEO said."

Under fire, the company has almost entirely reversed course on its free speech haven by clamping down on hate, increasing penalties for users who repeatedly share misinformation, and linking readers of any post related to COVID-19 to information from government sources.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/04/facebook-free-speech-politicians-policy-newsworthiness-hate-speech-misinformation/

There are already decentralized social platforms on the blockchain, like Open Chat on the internet computer and myriad social on Octopus Network.

theCommittalist

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How about a decentralised social media platform, with integrated support for automatic universal language translation and allowing users to select their fluency preference?

It has to be somewhere in the pipeline as one of the next significant innovations in the social media internet, anyone agree?

Or, better yet, have any technical knowledge about how this might work?

I believe the technology would be workable but that the politics and ethos are still lacking.

It would represent a worldwide contact point for everyone on earth and challenge a lot of the stagnant analogue paradigms seeming to get in our way right now. From the outset, such a site would challenge the power of any state to control the expressed opinions of its citizens. It could also make the process of globalization friendlier to the individual and the indiscriminate social element. It must also create more transparency about which states and territories are against such developments. And provide a more responsively international internet.

Thanks for reading, and have a fine day/night wherever you are!

TC

sovie

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Quote from: Zlantann on June 21, 2022, 09:10:45 AM

This computer age has made man loose freedom and privacy. The truth is that most people cannot do without these social media platforms. Some businesses must use facebook for them to reach their target customers. Most politicians must use twitter to reach their audience. Donald Trump is experimenting with Truth Social to compete with this big tech companies but it has failed to meet its expectations. As long as we must communicate, then these social media are important, hence we must abide by their rules in order to enjoy or use the service they offer. There would never be a perfect social media platform.

Once in an interview someone asked Mark Zuckerberg - would you like to tell us in which hotel you stayed last week - Mark said - NO!
The person asked again - would you like to tell us who you meet last night - he again said No, than he said - the same is the privacy of the people which you are compromising. For everyone rules are different for self and for others.

Zlantann

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on June 20, 2022, 12:40:27 PM

There's something people don't understand: you write on their platform. Since it's their platform, they make the rules. In US, you may hear about issues with the freedom of speech. In other countries the "bad" posts are simply removed with no fuss. On their platform, we are just the herd that make them money.

Do you want your posts stay under your control? Keep your computer online 24/7 and self-host a blog or whatever. Then it goes by your rules. Nowadays it should not even be that difficult.
Ah, your posts are not seen by so much people? You have to SEO/advertise it? You have to fight your way against rich platforms? Well, life is not supposed to be easy.

This computer age has made man loose freedom and privacy. The truth is that most people cannot do without these social media platforms. Some businesses must use facebook for them to reach their target customers. Most politicians must use twitter to reach their audience. Donald Trump is experimenting with Truth Social to compete with this big tech companies but it has failed to meet its expectations. As long as we must communicate, then these social media are important, hence we must abide by their rules in order to enjoy or use the service they offer. There would never be a perfect social media platform.

Plaguedeath

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Is there anyone in this year still using Facebook? it's a cringey social media with full of old people who posted his daily activity to expose their privacy.

Now Instagram is the most biggest social media, but it's linked with Meta aka Facebook, so the best way is avoid social medias that has collect your data.

Maestro75

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Quote from: jackg on June 20, 2022, 12:32:28 PM

Most popular social media is annoying though as paid content gets boosted

As long as those contents get boosted and Facebook gets paid upfront for them, Brother Mark is cool with that. This is such a worrying development to see where a country that boasts itself as the world center for democracy and free speech is hosting the most popular social media platform that restricts free speech. This is a big contradiction. We sacrifice our privacy in the name of making use of Facebook and yet we can hardly express our thoughts without the fear of getting banned.

Pomogator

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It really is. It became clear to me after the start of blocking the Russian media and the suspension of the promotion of posts on the pro-Russian topic of the conflict, this site has long been dead. The same goes for Twitter. So far, Telegram is the most adequate messenger for me.

Bitstar_coin

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When it really dawn on me that Facebook and all its meta apps are heavily spying on users is when i will see certain adds relating to what i look up on like aliexpress or eBay coming up, damn, that company is really surveilling its users no joke.
Beside whatsapp, i don't use my real id with any other social platform especial when there is zero privacy involved. i doubt there is anything like freedom of speech and expression in any of the social platform we have, they are centralized and heavily censored. its time we have a decentralized social platform that really represent freedom of speech and expression.

Uang_kartal

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I experienced it myself, whatever I wrote on the platform (described an uproarious situation, something that needs to be discussed according to logic and facts) and got muted for the exact time specified. If social media is for interaction, it should not be one-sided to give warning first. even for crypto links or posts sometimes get banned.
I only use my rights to interact, share info and whatever I want to share.
If Facebook is a medium, it should not filter at will (the developer)
a few years ago it wasn't this hard and was free to provide any information.
So, in your opinion, non-As, maybe there are other platforms.
while facebook is currently a giant.

davis196

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What makes you think that the non US social networks are better than than the US social networks?
If you want 100% free speech just host your own blog and write your thoughts there. Almost nobody will read your posts, but at least nobody will censor your free speech. There's no way for the social networks to win the war against trolling, propaganda, fake news, manipulation, hate speech, etc.
Do you really think that the Russian social networks like Vkontakte and Odnoklassniki are better than Facebook, Twitter and Instagram?
Is there any Chinese social network that offers completely free speech and absolutely no censorship? I don't think so.
I've made my mind years ago and I simply don't waste my time on social media.

yhiaali3

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I always thought that Facebook is the largest spying platform in the world, there is no privacy on Facebook, all your privacy and important information is violated by the company, and it becomes in the hands of the government in the end, of course they always brag about freedom of expression and freedom of opinion but this is all just false information, Post anything they don't like and it will be immediately deleted or even banned, this is of course in addition to the misinformation that the government controls and spreads by force among the people. It's time to move to the decentralized web and decentralized platforms.

Haunebu

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Personally, I check Facebook only now and then these days since there are far better alternatives out there these days like Twitter, WhatsApp, Instagram etc.

I don't remember the last time I actually posted something in facebook. Zuck knows that it's dying slowly and steadily which is why he is trying his best to keep it afloat through the metaverse etc which I don't think will help in the long-term.

avikz

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Free speech?? Lol! If it means spreading hatred - I will go against it! I don't know about other countries, but in my country, the ruling party uses social media like Facebook and Twitter to spread hate against a particular religious community. But so far whatever I have observed, Facebook has been doing a great job censoring them. Same goes with YouTube, they are alao doing a great job censoring hate contents.

So censorship to a certain extent is also needed. If there's no censorship, the powerful political groups will use social media to push their agendas. That's not desirable.

Yogee

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Facebook not doing much about groups mass reporting contents they don't like is already bad enough but adding "fact-checking" is probably their worst move.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 20, 2022, 12:51:10 PM

....
Where's Elon Musk and his big talk when you need him, eh?

Are you talking about his acquisition of Twitter and the changes he plans to do on the said platform? Probably still securing more funds to meet that $44 billion. News about Twitter becoming more of a free speech social media actually made some of the people I know dropped Facebook and move there.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: Hydrogen on June 20, 2022, 04:05:19 PM

Non US nations appear to lack the technical capability, resources and investment capital to deploy large scale social media.

You don't need any outstanding technical capability to make a social network, this isn't some military secret, lol. There are Facebook and Twitter analogues all over the world, like for example Russian Vkontakte, which is very popular in Russia and many of its neighbours, much more than Facebook. They can't become global because of the network effect - there's already global social networks and no room for two.

And if you think that the grass is greener on the other side, then think again - China and Russia do so much surveillance that the US is a bastion of privacy, compared to them.

The actual alternative to social networks owned by companies are decentralized social networks that run on open-source software.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: gweb1996 on June 20, 2022, 12:11:13 PM

Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

I can't even remember how frequent I've been on Facebook this recent times all because of the commitment to bitcointalk forum as I've already found myself addicted to it unlike other social media networks, here the community is places us with a good opportunity to progress in life by the pool of threads and numbers of users committed to giving their best contributory advise in discussion on related areas that could help increase human finance and economic lives and if this must be achieved then bitcoin is the alternative to that which is totally decentralized.

Hydrogen

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China's biggest search engine bing is said to copy google search results, rather than generate their own. Europe has attempted joint development projects, between multiple EU nations, like the eurofighter which fell short of success. Non US nations appear to lack the technical capability, resources and investment capital to deploy large scale social media. Which is one major bottleneck preventing it from becoming a reality. European and asian nations are also subject to super injunctions (court enforced gag orders) and greater regulation of freedom of speech in contrast to the USA.

The harsh truth may be even if social media servers were housed in international waters, outside the jurisdiction of major countries. They still would not escape regulation and laws imposed by major nations. If the servers were located on mars or the moon, outside the reach of regulation. Maybe freedom of speech would have a chance. The way things are now, thepiratebay and others have long tried to escape that net without success.

sovie

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Quote from: gweb1996 on June 20, 2022, 12:11:13 PM

Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

“Whether you like Facebook or not, we need to recognize what is at stake and come together to stand for free expression at this critical moment,” he said.

But after being deluged with misinformation about COVID-19, hate, and false claims of election fraud—some of which came directly from then-President Donald Trump—Facebook has all but said: "Nevermind, forget what our CEO said."

Under fire, the company has almost entirely reversed course on its free speech haven by clamping down on hate, increasing penalties for users who repeatedly share misinformation, and linking readers of any post related to COVID-19 to information from government sources.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/04/facebook-free-speech-politicians-policy-newsworthiness-hate-speech-misinformation/

I have already stopped using fb - I don't know but I am switched to twitter already.
Fb and instagram have some strict policies and so does twitter. And also it is good to keep your emotions in control while posting on social media. My 2 cents.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on June 20, 2022, 12:40:27 PM

[...]

This perfectly summarizes surveillance capitalism.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 20, 2022, 12:51:10 PM

Anyway, all of the speech restriction is the least of my concerns as far as Facebook is concerned; the reason I don't have a FB account is because of their horrendous privacy-violating policies.

You may not have a Facebook account, but do you also avoid Messenger, WhatsApp and Instagram? If you don't, it's the same as having a Facebook account. All of Meta's products have the same privacy policy, which can be described shortly as:

We store your data, whether you have an account or not.
We sell your pictures, videos, texts, identity ultimately to advertisers.
We can read your private messages.
We know, and sell, your browsing history.
We store deleted content.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 20, 2022, 12:51:10 PM

I don't know how anyone could upload personal stuff to that site, but millions of people do, and it's baffling to me.

Personal stuff such as stories, selfies and videos? Indeed. But, stuff like private messages (which aren't private, lol) are needed, to contact your friends, co-workers, employers etc. I don't say there aren't alternatives, but since that's what most people use, you're, essentially, forced to have it too.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: gweb1996 on June 20, 2022, 12:11:13 PM

Under fire, the company has almost entirely reversed course on its free speech haven by clamping down on hate, increasing penalties for users who repeatedly share misinformation, and linking readers of any post related to COVID-19 to information from government sources.

Yeah well, that's what happens to social media sites when they're essentially controlled by their advertisers. One could have predicted how they'd turned out before they even came into existence, because the same thing happened with newspapers, television, and everything else that's under corporate control.

Anyway, all of the speech restriction is the least of my concerns as far as Facebook is concerned; the reason I don't have a FB account is because of their horrendous privacy-violating policies. I don't know how anyone could upload personal stuff to that site, but millions of people do, and it's baffling to me.

Where's Elon Musk and his big talk when you need him, eh?

NeuroticFish

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There's something people don't understand: you write on their platform. Since it's their platform, they make the rules. In US, you may hear about issues with the freedom of speech. In other countries the "bad" posts are simply removed with no fuss. On their platform, we are just the herd that make them money.

Do you want your posts stay under your control? Keep your computer online 24/7 and self-host a blog or whatever. Then it goes by your rules. Nowadays it should not even be that difficult.
Ah, your posts are not seen by so much people? You have to SEO/advertise it? You have to fight your way against rich platforms? Well, life is not supposed to be easy.

jackg

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The village idiot was normally the loudest whenever I checked my Facebook feed, that being said you could just unfriend or block them if they were too annoying.

Most popular social media is annoying though as paid content gets boosted the most out of everything and can also lead to misinformation and manipulation of the viewers (which itself can undermine both free speech and democracy).

gweb1996

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Facebook free speech is dead it's time we move to non US social networks

“Whether you like Facebook or not, we need to recognize what is at stake and come together to stand for free expression at this critical moment,” he said.

But after being deluged with misinformation about COVID-19, hate, and false claims of election fraud—some of which came directly from then-President Donald Trump—Facebook has all but said: "Nevermind, forget what our CEO said."

Under fire, the company has almost entirely reversed course on its free speech haven by clamping down on hate, increasing penalties for users who repeatedly share misinformation, and linking readers of any post related to COVID-19 to information from government sources.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/04/facebook-free-speech-politicians-policy-newsworthiness-hate-speech-misinformation/

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