Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

teosanru

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Quote from: DashingAgent on July 01, 2021, 02:33:27 PM

So why reserve banks do not accept taxes in the form of Bitcoin? (Reserve banks do not accept bitcoin yet but claim that they accept bitcoin) otherwise it only shows that that governments just want to generate fiat money out of thin air. Governments should blame themselves, instead of showing their hypocrisy by cracking down on bitcoin.

Quote from: teosanru on July 01, 2021, 02:24:19 PM

Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

Haha money laundering in bitcoin is taking place in two ways. One is through cash. People are abandoning their cash because they know bitcoin is a better option in terms of storage. Those who don't want to take a risk can simply buy a stablecoin in crypto. It's much easier to store these Cryptos than it is to store any amount of cash also they can be easily transferred. Second problem is for payment of services. If you bought something from bitcoin, you just evaded both indirectly tax as well as direct tax because this service and it's amount will never come into circulating GDP.

Umm! Ideally, Fiat isn't generated out of thin air! For every million generated by the government, there are repercussions on the whole economy so it needs to be very smartly done. Talking about why Reserve Banks do not accept taxes in form of bitcoin. Taxes are basically a cut from what you have earned. Now Imagine if Reserve Bank starts collecting taxes in form of gold? People who earn in fiat will rather start buying gold and then deposit their taxes, in this buying price of gold would dramatically increase and therefore people who would pay their taxes late would end up paying much more tax than what is required. Moreover, it's a futile exercise. For this sake of simplicity, taxes are collected in legal tender only.

ven7net

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

The process of money laundering is when financial transactions are carried out without the use of official government instruments. However, if you buy BTC or sell BTC using a bank card, then there is probably nothing like money laundering, unless you do it all without using the same bank cards. As for the governments, although whether they buy BTC or not, we cannot know 100%, since none of them officially announced this. But the fact that the price of BTC has gone down suggests that someone is buying BTC and that these are probably large funds.

poodle63

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Money laundering always exists doesn't matter whether it's through using fiat or cryptocurrency, the thing is, money laundering in crypto usually being made as a big deal while the scale of money laundering through crypto in
my opinion isn't as large as those with paper money. The government likes to demonize crypto because it's just out of their control, imagine a decentralized currency that not even government could freeze, that's why they
usually really opposes it.

semobo

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Quote from: DashingAgent on July 01, 2021, 02:16:48 PM

It is already explained that if governments just abolish fiat money then there will be no case of money laundering because fiat is the only thing which can be used for money laundering like black money to white money as someone stated in his comment, while you cannot make bitcoin white or black because you will only have bitcoin and how do you claim that "What if someone uses his bitcoin to buy gold"? Only if someone who is noob or stupid will prefer to use bitcoin to buy gold or use bitcoin to buy usdt

If you don't pay taxes to your earnings whether it is bitcoin or fiat, its simply called as black money. Governments will never be going to leave their fiat money and accept bitcoin as a legal tender unless they are facing hyperinflation and economical crisis. You can't say that someone who buy gold with bitcoin are stupid because if you bought bitcoin at its peak it was about $62K but now it is at $32K in matter of months but we don't see such type of crash in gold so it all depends on how good ou are multiplying your income.

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

This is not a fact, but an opinion, your own opinion.
Money laundering does exist and there are many ways to do money laundering.
Every government servant or employee has their own salary based on their rights.
However, why money laundering does exist?because there are funds that are not their right salary, or money from corruption, and other money that is used and saved without known by the country and not notified.
In this case, how if someone got money and then he asked other people to deposit money to exchanges? It can be and it will not be tracked by the bank if the money is his.

Distinctin

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Okay, but if the government and the banks considering this as a money-laundering then they have to call attention to the owner of the said credit card and do the investigation. But they don't and that simple it was not against the law unless if the transaction is suspicious. However, banks had already known and aware of Bitcoin, even they don't accept Bitcoin as their payment but they are still in business you know coz these people will surely convert their Bitcoin to fiat money and deposited it back into their account.

Money laundering really exists but not all the transfer transactions will be meant that way.

DashingAgent

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So why reserve banks do not accept taxes in the form of Bitcoin? (Reserve banks do not accept bitcoin yet but claim that they accept bitcoin) otherwise it only shows that that governments just want to generate fiat money out of thin air. Governments should blame themselves, instead of showing their hypocrisy by cracking down on bitcoin.

Quote from: teosanru on July 01, 2021, 02:24:19 PM

Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

Haha money laundering in bitcoin is taking place in two ways. One is through cash. People are abandoning their cash because they know bitcoin is a better option in terms of storage. Those who don't want to take a risk can simply buy a stablecoin in crypto. It's much easier to store these Cryptos than it is to store any amount of cash also they can be easily transferred. Second problem is for payment of services. If you bought something from bitcoin, you just evaded both indirectly tax as well as direct tax because this service and it's amount will never come into circulating GDP.

DashingAgent

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Then you should not blame bitcoin because if bitcoin is obtained illegally then it is already illegal so how it can be called a form of money laundering? if bitcoin is being used to conceal money, then bitcoin is not a legal currency in those countries. If bitcoin is illegal then it cannot be blamed for money laundering. The only thing which can be blamed is fiat.

Quote from: lixer on July 01, 2021, 12:19:23 PM

Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

I think you misunderstood the meaning of money laundering. Someone who is buying Bitcoin is not doing something illegal, unless Bitcoin is illegal in your country. And a miner who is selling his mined Bitcoin is also not doing anything wrong at all, there is nothing bad about that as long as Bitcoin is legal in your country.

But as for money laundering, it doesn’t have anything to do with these things that you have mentioned here. Money laundering means when you’re trying to conceal an illegally obtained money through international bank transfers and legit businesses. So when they say that Bitcoin can be used for money laundering, they know what they are saying. But that doesn’t mean Bitcoin is the only thing that’s used for that, a lot of means can be used in laundering money, and fiat is on top that list.

teosanru

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

Haha money laundering in bitcoin is taking place in two ways. One is through cash. People are abandoning their cash because they know bitcoin is a better option in terms of storage. Those who don't want to take a risk can simply buy a stablecoin in crypto. It's much easier to store these Cryptos than it is to store any amount of cash also they can be easily transferred. Second problem is for payment of services. If you bought something from bitcoin, you just evaded both indirectly tax as well as direct tax because this service and it's amount will never come into circulating GDP.

DashingAgent

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It is already explained that if governments just abolish fiat money then there will be no case of money laundering because fiat is the only thing which can be used for money laundering like black money to white money as someone stated in his comment, while you cannot make bitcoin white or black because you will only have bitcoin and how do you claim that "What if someone uses his bitcoin to buy gold"? Only if someone who is noob or stupid will prefer to use bitcoin to buy gold or use bitcoin to buy usdt

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 05:29:23 PM

Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 02:14:14 PM

When there are bank statements then how money laundering is possible via bitcoin? You pay fiat to buy bitcoin, you don't pay bitcoin to buy bitcoin. If governments want to stop money laundering then they must abolished the fiat currency.

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 02:03:53 PM

By the way, @OP do you know what is money laundering?

Any earnings which are not reported to government so you are not paying taxes is called black money and people who are converting black money into white in different ways is called money laundering so money laundering can be done by anyone and the medium of asset is different in all the cases.

What if someone uses his bitcoin to buy gold or get physical cash where there is no involvement of a bank? Literally, money laundering is unstoppable no matter how many strict regulations the governments are having unless they allow the evaders to accept their mistake and give the least amount as a penalty for their mistake done by them in the past.

lixer

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

I think you misunderstood the meaning of money laundering. Someone who is buying Bitcoin is not doing something illegal, unless Bitcoin is illegal in your country. And a miner who is selling his mined Bitcoin is also not doing anything wrong at all, there is nothing bad about that as long as Bitcoin is legal in your country.

But as for money laundering, it doesn’t have anything to do with these things that you have mentioned here. Money laundering means when you’re trying to conceal an illegally obtained money through international bank transfers and legit businesses. So when they say that Bitcoin can be used for money laundering, they know what they are saying. But that doesn’t mean Bitcoin is the only thing that’s used for that, a lot of means can be used in laundering money, and fiat is on top that list.

semobo

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Quote from: wahyu wida on June 30, 2021, 09:50:00 PM

money laundering by officials seems to be a culture. with severe punishment this can only minimize the activity. until there is a country that applies the death penalty for corruptors, but there are still corruptors. therefore the government should calculate the benefits and risks of bitcoin, don't just look at the negative side

Money launderers are the government officials and politicals leaders and also they are the one who is making laws then how can you expect them to give death penalty for such crimes so they should be real to hang themselves or it it will never be possible.

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That means OP is saying There is no money laundering exits? No, I am not agree with this. Money Laundering still happening and very hard to stop it.

Now talk about the bitcoin price pump and dump issue. How do you know that government is the only one who is playing with bitcoin price? Can you please show some data or evidence to make your guess is correct?

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Quote from: maxreish on June 30, 2021, 10:21:00 PM

How can you say governments were the ones behind the price dump?

There are some occasions that governments is the real reason when there's a dump in the price and this current situation is the best example after china ban btc. but to be honest mostly are whales wherein they are different. Because government only bring bad news but it can cause panic selling and always made impact .unlike whales that can completely swing the market price without knowing, it's because they all had a big contribution.

so98nn

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That gives false statement if you ask me. If they want us to buy bitcoin and trade the fiat which will benefit them entirely without money laundering then they will never keep the price of BTC to lower side.
Remember as per your "Fact" they are interested in Fiat not BTC. So higher the price of bitcoin the more you have to pay in the Fiat for small bits. More benefit to government.

However, the whole assumption is pretty wrong. First Government do not control the prices, so neither they are pulling it down nor they are pushing it up. Secondly, Government don't care how much you buy and sell, they are simply getting the taxes recorded when you swipe your credit card.

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Quote from: Obito on July 01, 2021, 01:01:47 AM

OP thinks that there is a conspiracy behind the government that are making the prices go down but if you think about it, the conspiracy that we think of isn't even an inch close to the true conspiracy of the government and I don't think that the government has done something like this because if you can think about it then why would they do it.

OP not thinking outside of the box, I think the "money laundering" he/she telling is very limited, very small.
It's like common what happened for the suspected person doing money laundering even not. If you think more how money laundering, you will understand how money laundering really works.
With cryptocurrency now, money laundering made easier for sure, that's why governments are extremely strict about cryptocurrency.

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Quote from: maxreish on June 30, 2021, 10:21:00 PM

How can you say governments were the ones behind the price dump? Thats just a pure theory and you can not justify it yourself so it is not a fact afterall without a source and without names. I will believe that speculation if the government itself consider as a whale who own huge amount of bitcoins. And why dont you believe money laundering happening in real life?

OP thinks that there is a conspiracy behind the government that are making the prices go down but if you think about it, the conspiracy that we think of isn't even an inch close to the true conspiracy of the government and I don't think that the government has done something like this because if you can think about it then why would they do it.

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How can you say governments were the ones behind the price dump? Thats just a pure theory and you can not justify it yourself so it is not a fact afterall without a source and without names. I will believe that speculation if the government itself consider as a whale who own huge amount of bitcoins. And why dont you believe money laundering happening in real life?

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

I think Government will be always like that. No matter what weve seen lately they always try to drag down the market price. Why? Simple because some of them are wise enough to bag a cheaper price and some of them are lunatic that cant comprehend the ability of bitcoin to exist on financial institutions. In short they are not open minded for such possibilities.

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Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 05:29:23 PM

Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 02:14:14 PM

When there are bank statements then how money laundering is possible via bitcoin? You pay fiat to buy bitcoin, you don't pay bitcoin to buy bitcoin. If governments want to stop money laundering then they must abolished the fiat currency.

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 02:03:53 PM

By the way, @OP do you know what is money laundering?

Any earnings which are not reported to government so you are not paying taxes is called black money and people who are converting black money into white in different ways is called money laundering so money laundering can be done by anyone and the medium of asset is different in all the cases.

What if someone uses his bitcoin to buy gold or get physical cash where there is no involvement of a bank? Literally, money laundering is unstoppable no matter how many strict regulations the governments are having unless they allow the evaders to accept their mistake and give the least amount as a penalty for their mistake done by them in the past.

money laundering by officials seems to be a culture. with severe punishment this can only minimize the activity. until there is a country that applies the death penalty for corruptors, but there are still corruptors. therefore the government should calculate the benefits and risks of bitcoin, don't just look at the negative side

semobo

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 02:14:14 PM

When there are bank statements then how money laundering is possible via bitcoin? You pay fiat to buy bitcoin, you don't pay bitcoin to buy bitcoin. If governments want to stop money laundering then they must abolished the fiat currency.

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 02:03:53 PM

By the way, @OP do you know what is money laundering?

Any earnings which are not reported to government so you are not paying taxes is called black money and people who are converting black money into white in different ways is called money laundering so money laundering can be done by anyone and the medium of asset is different in all the cases.

What if someone uses his bitcoin to buy gold or get physical cash where there is no involvement of a bank? Literally, money laundering is unstoppable no matter how many strict regulations the governments are having unless they allow the evaders to accept their mistake and give the least amount as a penalty for their mistake done by them in the past.

DashingAgent

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When there are bank statements then how money laundering is possible via bitcoin? You pay fiat to buy bitcoin, you don't pay bitcoin to buy bitcoin. If governments want to stop money laundering then they must abolished the fiat currency.

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 02:03:53 PM

By the way, @OP do you know what is money laundering?

Any earnings which are not reported to government so you are not paying taxes is called black money and people who are converting black money into white in different ways is called money laundering so money laundering can be done by anyone and the medium of asset is different in all the cases.

semobo

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By the way, @OP do you know what is money laundering?

Any earnings which are not reported to government so you are not paying taxes is called black money and people who are converting black money into white in different ways is called money laundering so money laundering can be done by anyone and the medium of asset is different in all the cases.

Slow death

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Money laundering has been around for many years before there was even bitcoin, of course now with cryptocurrencies it could be that the lives of many people who are passionate about money laundering are made much easier. Governments despite many of them being corrupt and thieves and the first money launderers, need to follow the laws and persecute people who launder money. imagine you want to sell drugs? you can sell and receive payments in cryptocurrencies and then withdraw it to your bank account as if the money came from a legal business, this is the problem governments are having headaches to deal with

Fesatmas

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if the government reverses the fact that the government wants to buy BTC then where do they store the BTC? in their cold wallet? if yes then at least we found the bitcoin address pointing to them? indeed at this time, the government is hostile to BTC very clearly where it will result in money laundering multiplied, look at the supply of fiat money circulating in a country where they use their fiat currency benchmark to avoid big inflation.
the result is that if on the pretext of not money laundering, then we do not have strong sources to accuse the government of buying large amounts of Bitcoin.

dkbit98

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You saying there is no money laundering does not make it a fact, and you need to show some evidence for your claims, but I guess people today may believe anything they hear or read before checking for themselves.
Money laundering was not invented with Bitcoin, but it exist for ages and everyone knows that most of the money is washed in certain banks and offshore in some countries.
It sure does exist in Bitcoin also but why would anyone do that when Bitcoin is public ledger any everything will be recorded forever on blockchain.

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Hmm, this is weird if the government controls everything and they have all the data on those bank accounts, how is money laundering even possible in the first place? You're making the mistake of believing that money laundering refers to something like completely making that money disappear but in reality, it's more about just obfuscating the sources and making the end person look legit.

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on June 30, 2021, 08:37:40 AM

2- You can easily show fake loss or fake profit using BTC and many crypto exchanges. So if you are able to go one way from dirty money into BTC ... its super easy to show that you earned them via trading or other activities (like creating nice NFT).

If I were in the US, this is the one I would avoid, those exchanges are reporting a lot of data to the authorities so they will probably link all my activities pretty fast, for large sums of money for a single individual I will most likely flee the country rather than trying some schemes. But when there is a large organization that has enough members with enough fake identities distributed around the country yeah, definitely possible.

As for the ATM, there is an even better idea:
Run, your own! Put a 10% fee and just have somebody continuously buy and sell coins, the profit you make is totally legit, and if you're smart and not an idiot trying to bribe police officers I'm sure they won't be able to track you with anything.

DarkIT

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

Only if any government legally announced the holding of the bitcoin, untill then we can't know it. Almost it's not a transparency one. Because then, it will created some criticism. Some government in the world will not made legal of bitcoin. Surely it will ask the holding government about the holding.

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist?

1- You dont need bank account to withdraw BTC to cash. Many ATMs all around Europe let you withdraw/deposit up to 10k euro without KYC (in single swap).
2- You can easily show fake loss or fake profit using BTC and many crypto exchanges. So if you are able to go one way from dirty money into BTC ... its super easy to show that you earned them via trading or other activities (like creating nice NFT).
3- you can buy/sell via P2P using vendors that accept cash
4- you can buy bank account on darknet and use it for crime. You cannot transer this money to your bank account but you can buy crypto using it and use crypto to lose tracks.

“If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong.”

If you dont know how people can use crypto for money laundering it does not mean that it is impossible and government is lying. Maybe just you are not informed enough.

jossiel

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Give us source so we can believe if this is an actual fact. We're all speculating that governments want to buy bitcoin at a very cheap rate. But we cannot show proof that they really are.

What if the government you're talking about is against bitcoin and they've banned it? you didn't even specify which government you're describing.

mindrust

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Quote from: DashingAgent on June 30, 2021, 04:58:53 AM

Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

How is this a fact if it cannot verified by any fact checkers?

Can you show us a link to twitter, facebook or reuters where we can verify this fact?

Otherwise I cannot accept your argument as a fact. Sorry.

DashingAgent

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Fact: There is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC

The fact is that that there is no anything like money laundering but governments want to buy BTC, just assume that when you buy bitcoin then you use your credit card or bank account, your money already has transferred at that time to a foreign bank account and you have bitcoin in exchange with that, similarly if you are a miner who mines bitcoin then you sell bitcoin either in your country or either to someone who lives outside, then in exchange he transfers money using a bank account to your account so how it could be possible that money laundering might exist? Governments want to keep the price of Bitcoin down in order to buy more Bitcoin by spending the less amount of so called "Fiat" currency.

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