Author

Topic: FBI aims to keep valuables, $86M cash confiscated in safe deposit store raid (Read 379 times)

legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I am not an expert on the law or anything but even if there was an express order to not do so if the FBI uses the patriot act to justify their actions they could get away with it, so let this be a lesson for anyone reading those articles, the governments can decide what is fair or not and change the rules as it suits them, so centralization will always be a point of failure and if you have some valuables to store like gold, jewelry and other stuff never do so in safe deposit boxes.

I am also not in favor of safe deposit boxes. But as mentioned in the article, many of those who kept their valuables are those who don't trust the banks. They also had the option of storing these valuables at home, but then it will make them vulnerable to armed robberies and home invasions. From what I know about this incident, the business mentioned here was operating with all the necessary permits and licenses. The issue arose when one of the promoters was arrested for involvement with drugs trade.
hero member
Activity: 2884
Merit: 794
I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!
Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.
I am not an expert on the law or anything but even if there was an express order to not do so if the FBI uses the patriot act to justify their actions they could get away with it, so let this be a lesson for anyone reading those articles, the governments can decide what is fair or not and change the rules as it suits them, so centralization will always be a point of failure and if you have some valuables to store like gold, jewelry and other stuff never do so in safe deposit boxes.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 1128
It is not within their power to seize these assets. And that is the reason why the judge (Steve Kim) rejected the request from the FBI to keep the valuables with themselves. The judge was very clear when he said that if the FBI want to seize these assets, then they need to present solid evidence to prove that they are proceedings from crime (FBI was arguing for the reverse scenario - the owners should first present evidence to claim that these assets are not linked to any criminal transaction). So we can say that at least in this instance, the FBI is not getting what they wanted.
FBI has always been the most horrible place in all of USA and they have done so many crimes under the laws protection that they literally killed people they wanted to kill without facing any consequences, hell there were citizens rooting for it.

Go check out cointelpro and you will see how dirty their hands are, and look at all the Latin America works as well and you will be disgusted. In any regular nation a place like FBI would be closed down very quickly, they are not "investigating" anything like their name suggests, they are taking action and those actions are just to make themselves more and more powerful that's it, so they are very dangerous.

I am glad that judge decided to not give them the belongings because it was obvious that they were just doing it to make more money, it wasn't about any crime or not, it literally had nothing to do with that, they were all like "hey we raided a place and found money, we gonna keep it!!" and judge ordered it to be given back, if not then FBI would keep it illegally.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
It's pretty disgusting how law enforcement operate these days and this is (one of many) prime examples out there. The moment that police departments were allowed by law to seize goods and use the funds from those seize goods to fund themselves, was part of the whole system breaking down. Besides the fact that they have willfully ignored the judges orders (which should be a case for dismissal for any police officer directly involved in seizing the goods) they have a perverse incentive to take as much property as possible, if it will be eventually sold for the benefit of their city budget. It thoroughly breaks the "innocent until proven guilty" bedrock of society that America was built on and is one of many things that needs rowing back on for stability and faith in the police to return.

It is not the first time that the FBI is acting in this manner. However, setbacks such as the one they received this time is rare. Normally the judges don't actively intervene with such asset seizures. That said, I would like to point out one fact. It is very unlikely that the FBI had acted on their own. Funds, if seized will be passed on to the federal authorities. The directive would have come from some of the politicians. And it makes sense, because the authorities are facing a cash crunch, given the pandemic situation.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 1192
Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.

It's pretty disgusting how law enforcement operate these days and this is (one of many) prime examples out there. The moment that police departments were allowed by law to seize goods and use the funds from those seize goods to fund themselves, was part of the whole system breaking down. Besides the fact that they have willfully ignored the judges orders (which should be a case for dismissal for any police officer directly involved in seizing the goods) they have a perverse incentive to take as much property as possible, if it will be eventually sold for the benefit of their city budget. It thoroughly breaks the "innocent until proven guilty" bedrock of society that America was built on and is one of many things that needs rowing back on for stability and faith in the police to return.
sr. member
Activity: 1988
Merit: 453
Exactly, I think that it's within their power to seize the items and as the quote above says, they're the FBI and you won't be able to do much about them because they are acting on federal level so they aren't to be messed with. It may sound unfair to us but we don't exactly know the full story behind the seizure and why they kept the valuables.

No. It is not within their power to seize these assets. And that is the reason why the judge (Steve Kim) rejected the request from the FBI to keep the valuables with themselves. The judge was very clear when he said that if the FBI want to seize these assets, then they need to present solid evidence to prove that they are proceedings from crime (FBI was arguing for the reverse scenario - the owners should first present evidence to claim that these assets are not linked to any criminal transaction). So we can say that at least in this instance, the FBI is not getting what they wanted.
sr. member
Activity: 1624
Merit: 315
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.
Exactly, I think that it's within their power to seize the items and as the quote above says, they're the FBI and you won't be able to do much about them because they are acting on federal level so they aren't to be messed with. It may sound unfair to us but we don't exactly know the full story behind the seizure and why they kept the valuables.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1115
★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!
I honestly don't care what the FBI or any other agency in the US does, because even though they always try to stand out as the greatest democracy in the world, I would never like to feel that kind of democracy on my skin. In a country where people are still being killed because of the color of their skin and a country that has directly or indirectly started dozens of wars and caused millions of deaths for its own interests, is anyone surprised that one of their agencies is acting like this?
You should care not because they are good, but because they are bad. Basically FBI is what USA does to increase profit for the rich people approved by the military complex and bribed politicians but can't do legally. You want someone killed? USA can't just go up to them and murder them, they have FBI do a covert op and just murder them and make it look like they had nothing to do with it.

If it is so easy for them to kill people (which has been proven a million times by now) just to make money, do you have any idea how much they care when it is about money directly? Crypto is literally finance, and when you are doing something that is powering people and destroy the power of centralized government? Well I can't imagine what they will be able to do. So every news about FBI is a greatly important news, they were capable of confiscating 86 million dollars worth of stuff here, they can't in crypto, hence the problem.

You're cracked mate.  Not a single thing you posted is true and it's wildly disturbing that people exist with as bizarre of beliefs as the trash you posted.  It doesn't even make sense inside the rambling post itself, as many parts of what you posted are contradictory.  You can't even stick to a consistent conspiracy theory.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
No not right to seize people's belongings without prove to confisticate. If the FBI suspect an illegal dealing, they have the right to investigate and at same time respect the ruling of court. Like in op quote, the judge ruled that those confisticated items are not for grabs.

A rare setback for the FBI. Normally the courts don't intervene on such situations and the FBI loot as much as they can. But this time the judge (Steve Kim) explicitly stated that they can't confiscate the assets, unless they have solid evidence to prove that these are proceedings from crime. The FBI was arguing for the reverse - they will confiscate the assets unless the owners could prove that these valuables are not related to crime. Now the situation has reversed and it is the responsibility of the FBI to present the proof.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
This is another justification of having your own safe vaults. Entrusting it to a third-party will always come with greater risks compared to when you're keeping the things on your own.
One very good reason to "outsource" your valuables is to prevent a $5 wrench attack. If a burglar can't open your wall safe, he can beat you up when you get home.
These are instead very good reasons not to have valuables in safe deposit boxes and safes altogether. I'll stick to bitcoin with those good old word recoveries that I can obfuscate as I want sometimes en-plain air which is the best.
Nobody would ever imagine that I have bitcoins that way.
Never trust third-parties when not necessary.
hero member
Activity: 2660
Merit: 630
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.

No not right to seize people's belongings without prove to confisticate. If the FBI suspect an illegal dealing, they have the right to investigate and at same time respect the ruling of court. Like in op quote, the judge ruled that those confisticated items are not for grabs.

Quote
even though a judge specifically said the contents of the boxes weren’t up for grabs.


Quote
The box holders and their lawyers say the FBI is trampling on the rights of people who were unaware the business, U.S. Private Vaults, was charged in a sealed indictment with conspiring to sell drugs and launder money.

The warrant that US Magistrate Steve Kim signed on March 17 giving permission for the FBI to raid the business even said, “This warrant does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.”

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

Reading the above, you see is unlawful for FBI to trample on people's right. It is subject to the courts approval rather than going against the laws.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
This is another justification of having your own safe vaults. Entrusting it to a third-party will always come with greater risks compared to when you're keeping the things on your own.
One very good reason to "outsource" your valuables is to prevent a $5 wrench attack. If a burglar can't open your wall safe, he can beat you up when you get home.

It is extremely risky to store valuables (such as physical cash or bullion coins) at home irrespective of the crime rate in the area where you live. The authorities want you to store your wealth in banks (either in the form of cash in savings accounts, or in the form of stocks/mutual funds/ETFs in demat account). But at this point, there are a lot of people who don't trust these banks (and also the locker services which they provide). Such individuals go for private safe deposit boxes, and the authorities have well known reasons to discourage this practise.
sr. member
Activity: 1526
Merit: 252
We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.


It was true, but their actions made everyone feel that the FBI were real thieves. still, remember with the death of JOHN MCAFEE, all his belongings were also confiscated. even the Bitcoin assets that he owns have been packaged and secured by the FBI. and now we don't know what's next for the stuff.
and usually, news relating to John's possessions was gradually covered up.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1074
I honestly don't care what the FBI or any other agency in the US does, because even though they always try to stand out as the greatest democracy in the world, I would never like to feel that kind of democracy on my skin. In a country where people are still being killed because of the color of their skin and a country that has directly or indirectly started dozens of wars and caused millions of deaths for its own interests, is anyone surprised that one of their agencies is acting like this?
You should care not because they are good, but because they are bad. Basically FBI is what USA does to increase profit for the rich people approved by the military complex and bribed politicians but can't do legally. You want someone killed? USA can't just go up to them and murder them, they have FBI do a covert op and just murder them and make it look like they had nothing to do with it.

If it is so easy for them to kill people (which has been proven a million times by now) just to make money, do you have any idea how much they care when it is about money directly? Crypto is literally finance, and when you are doing something that is powering people and destroy the power of centralized government? Well I can't imagine what they will be able to do. So every news about FBI is a greatly important news, they were capable of confiscating 86 million dollars worth of stuff here, they can't in crypto, hence the problem.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
This is another justification of having your own safe vaults. Entrusting it to a third-party will always come with greater risks compared to when you're keeping the things on your own.
One very good reason to "outsource" your valuables is to prevent a $5 wrench attack. If a burglar can't open your wall safe, he can beat you up when you get home.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
Cashback 15%
This is another justification of having your own safe vaults. Entrusting it to a third-party will always come with greater risks compared to when you're keeping the things on your own. In this case, there were really no substantial evidences pointing towards the wrongdoings of the entity that was raided, and the FBI decides to keep the $86m for themselves. How about those people who doesn't know that the service they entrusted their things to were involved in this? Wouldn't it be logical for the FBI to return them to the rightful owners instead of going full ham and keeping these things to themselves? Then again, they are as corrupt as ever, and I don't think there will ever be a remedy to that.
full member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 146
Safe boxes and vaults provided by banks are not actually secure, there are some banks who will keep the assets no matter who is having the warrant even those items are acquired in an illegal way but in general, they will simply give the details about the holders to the government then what is the point of calling them as safe box, it is a loot box. Sad
hero member
Activity: 2114
Merit: 603
Quote
If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

But whats the play here? If they are not able to prove it with the evidences then they simply can't keep it right? I am not sure what are the regulations in the America but those people with the boxes can actually file a reversal case in the higher court. Obviously this is about the jurisdiction and if they think it's illegal then those victims will also have to prove their side. So its screwed up situation.

Also what do they do with the seized money anyway? Because 86M is whole lot of money. Apart from the seized gold and casino chips is there any relationship of this matter with the crypto space? Just curious!
full member
Activity: 868
Merit: 150
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
We can't do much about it, they're the FBI and if what they decide to do is to keep the stuff for evidence or as a part of the illegal activity then that's their call, and we can't do a thing about that.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲
OK.. that's pretty cool. Why limit this to safe deposit boxes? Let FBI seize all the property owned by the Americans - cash, real estate, stocks, bullion, antiques.etc. Then they can ask the owners to submit evidence to prove that these assets were not illegally obtained. If the Feds are not satisfied with the documents, then they can just seize the assets and distribute it among themselves. Sounds like a really cool idea.

I honestly don't care what the FBI or any other agency in the US does, because even though they always try to stand out as the greatest democracy in the world, I would never like to feel that kind of democracy on my skin. In a country where people are still being killed because of the color of their skin and a country that has directly or indirectly started dozens of wars and caused millions of deaths for its own interests, is anyone surprised that one of their agencies is acting like this?

BTW, what about the allegation from one of the victims that $75,000 worth of gold coins are missing, after the feds rifled through the boxes?

Anyone who claims that something was in the box can forget about it, because such storage does not work on the principle that there is some evidence that someone really put something in the box. Storing value in this way definitely has one big risk, because when something like this happens no one can prove that something was in the box at all.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1115
★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Quote
The FBI wants to keep $86 million in cash and millions more in jewelry and other valuables seized in a raid on a Beverly Hills, California, safe deposit box business, even though a judge specifically said the contents of the boxes weren’t up for grabs.

Prosecutors claim it’s fair to make the renters of the 369 safe deposit boxes forfeit their valuables, because they were engaged in criminal activity, the Los Angeles Times reported. But there’s no evidence to support the allegation.

The box holders and their lawyers say the FBI is trampling on the rights of people who were unaware the business, U.S. Private Vaults, was charged in a sealed indictment with conspiring to sell drugs and launder money.

The warrant that US Magistrate Steve Kim signed on March 17 giving permission for the FBI to raid the business even said, “This warrant does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.”

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

Now, the government is trying to keep the cash, gold and silver bars, pricey watches and even $1.3 million in poker chips from a Las Vegas casino.

The government “can’t take stuff without evidence in the hopes that you’re going to get it later,” Benjamin Gluck, an attorney who represents box holders suing the government to retrieve their property, told the Times. “The Fourth Amendment and the forfeiture laws require the opposite — that you have the evidence first, and then you can take property.”

“We have some basis to believe that the items are related to criminal activity,” Thom Mrozek, a spokesman for the FBI’s LA office, told the Times.

The contents of about 75 of the 800 boxes initially seized have already been returned, and at least 175 more will be given back, Mrozek said. The feds haven’t figured out who owns what was stored in many of the others.

The indictment says U.S. Private Vaults marketed itself to attract criminals who wanted to store valuables anonymously and hide from tax authorities. One of the company’s owners and a manager were involved in selling drugs and co-conspirators helped customers convert cash into gold to evade government suspicion, the Times reported.

But box owners like Joseph Ruiz, who kept $57,000 in cash from two legal settlements there because he doesn’t trust banks, say the government is stealing their money.

“I’m made out to be a criminal, and I didn’t do anything,” said Ruiz, the son of a retired Los Angeles police officer, told the paper. “I’m a law-abiding citizen.”

Ruiz has joined one of 11 lawsuits filed by box owners seeking the return of their property.




https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/fbi-aims-to-keep-valuables-86m-cash-found-in-safe-deposit-store-raid/



....



Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.

This is the most open and shut case I've ever seen on the 4th amendment. The government has no evidence any of the property seized is related to criminal activity. They also violated a court order in seizing the contents of the boxes. On a related note, Congress needs to outlaw civil asset forfeiture on a national level, local police departments abuse the system far too much to be trusted even with stricter oversight. The only remedy is eliminating the program.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Another great example about how crypto is the way you should hold your money, and not in coinbase or anything like that neither where FBI could reach it, just put it in a safe wallet and just lock that down, that way even if you are caught they will not be able to take control of your money, think about it the comparison is that in fiat world your money is stolen by FBI even if you are not a criminal, and in crypto world you get to keep your money even if you are a criminal, that is a staggering difference. This is why I love crypto, I am not a criminal myself but I do like to keep my money away from everyone.

I do not have to worry about FBI anyway since I am not in USA and not even remotely close to rich enough to be cared (actually not even rich, unfortunately) but I still do not like it when government branches act whatever the way they want to do without worrying about consequences. This is the same FBI that did COINTELPRO and nobody cared, nothing happened.

Wealth confiscation and asset forfeiture will become more and more common in the future, because the world is moving towards a socialist style of government. Leaders with socialist leanings are getting elected in countries around the world, and they are moving ahead with their agenda of more taxes, and more handouts (greater government spending in short). The problem with this system is that the government assumes that the tax revenue will simply increase if they hike the tax rates. That seldom happens. It goes down, because tax evasion and tax avoidance increases. So in order to maintain the budget, government would resort to extreme measures such as confiscation.
hero member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 622
Just another example of a powerful organization doing whatever they want. I realize that they are investigating some serious stuff, so they went as far as to violate the law, doing seizures without a proper warrant, intruding the privacy. But that is no excuse for what they've done, they had to make it properly!
Yes, it would have been pretty difficult to prove the criminal activity here by catching the organization red-handed, with the real evidence, but they're the FBI, they should be giving an example of how to act legally here, too bad they just went the easy way.
I hope those people win their lawsuits!
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441
Does this surprise anyone? Asset seizure has become a regular occurrence in the United States. Anyone remember what happened to user BurtW? And this is not just the case with US, but with almost every country in the world. Nowadays a lot of the regimes think that being successful is a crime. If you have a few hundred thousand USD worth of savings, then you are automatically being labelled as a criminal. And more so, if you are keeping your assets away from the banks and stock exchanges.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/23/cops-took-more-stuff-from-people-than-burglars-did-last-year/


I completely forgot about this until you mentioned it.

Every so often the media will publish a story about $10,000 in savings, stashed in a mattress being devoured by termites. Or a family's life savings being lost as a man's wife did not know he had hidden it in something she threw away in the trash. I always wondered if those stories were true, or contrived. Intended to discourage people from not putting their savings in banks or financial institutions.

I find it interesting as many appear to believe cryptocurrencies are not safe. But that traditional safety deposit boxes and banks are. Despite many recent events suggesting the opposite.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 1165
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
Another great example about how crypto is the way you should hold your money, and not in coinbase or anything like that neither where FBI could reach it, just put it in a safe wallet and just lock that down, that way even if you are caught they will not be able to take control of your money, think about it the comparison is that in fiat world your money is stolen by FBI even if you are not a criminal, and in crypto world you get to keep your money even if you are a criminal, that is a staggering difference. This is why I love crypto, I am not a criminal myself but I do like to keep my money away from everyone.

I do not have to worry about FBI anyway since I am not in USA and not even remotely close to rich enough to be cared (actually not even rich, unfortunately) but I still do not like it when government branches act whatever the way they want to do without worrying about consequences. This is the same FBI that did COINTELPRO and nobody cared, nothing happened.
sr. member
Activity: 1988
Merit: 453
According to the article, 75 boxes have already been returned, and another 175 will also be returned to their owners - meaning that the feds return everything that is not illegal, as well as those boxes for which it can be determined to whom they belong. ~~~

OK.. that's pretty cool. Why limit this to safe deposit boxes? Let FBI seize all the property owned by the Americans - cash, real estate, stocks, bullion, antiques.etc. Then they can ask the owners to submit evidence to prove that these assets were not illegally obtained. If the Feds are not satisfied with the documents, then they can just seize the assets and distribute it among themselves. Sounds like a really cool idea. BTW, what about the allegation from one of the victims that $75,000 worth of gold coins are missing, after the feds rifled through the boxes?
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲
But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items.

According to the article, 75 boxes have already been returned, and another 175 will also be returned to their owners - meaning that the feds return everything that is not illegal, as well as those boxes for which it can be determined to whom they belong. Everything that is illegal and kept with fake documents remains in dispute, although looking at all those American films, without a valid search warrant, all the evidence found at that place cannot serve as evidence against anyone because it was obtained illegally.

It would be interesting to find out if there were crypto backups in all these boxes, or maybe hardware wallets - which would certainly increase the total value of everything there.
hero member
Activity: 2702
Merit: 672
I don't request loans~
Well, that was a pretty stupid move. At least show the said "basis" that you guys are relying on to say that the said items are actually related to criminal activity, otherwise, it's just you guys pushing an argument backed by nothing by your words, which is probably the worst argument one could ever make, especially in a case like this. Sure, I understand that what they are saying "could" be true, but as LoyceV has said, "innocent until proven guilty" is the basics of the basic.
Ucy
sr. member
Activity: 2674
Merit: 403
Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.
Well, Anonimity and Transparency would work well in things like . Anonymity Rights of innocent depositors can't be taken away because of criminal depositors otherwise tyrants or "bad actors" could use this as an opportunity to flood that deposit boxes with valuable of criminals in order to de-anonymize the innocent and probably completely take away the Anonimty Rght.

The right Level of transparency (like we have in true crypto currency) should help the Security agency track and trace criminal activities,then the agency could bargain with the business owners to have some sort of encrypted private information of the criminals de-anonimised (without de-anonimizing the innocent) and properly investigated
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Quote
The feds haven’t figured out who owns what was stored in many of the others.
So it's legal to run an anonymous safe deposit box business?

Quote
Quote
The indictment says U.S. Private Vaults marketed itself to attract criminals who wanted to store valuables anonymously and hide from tax authorities. One of the company’s owners and a manager were involved in selling drugs and co-conspirators helped customers convert cash into gold to evade government suspicion, the Times reported.
That's just dumb Tongue If you're offering a service to criminals to store their money, you shouldn't be involved in anything else that makes you a suspect.

Quote
But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.
I get it from the FBI's perspective: you can bet at least some of the money came from criminals, so obviously they don't want to return it. And chances are the local drug lord won't ask for it either. But it's seriously bad when government just ignores their legal boundaries and the basic "innocent until proven guilty". Of course it's easier to catch bad guys that way, but for the same reason they're not allowed to search all houses hoping to find something.
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 7005
Top Crypto Casino
Hmm.  I hadn't heard anything about this story, but I do hope this:  that if there was, in fact, criminal wrongdoing on the part of the people whose money the FBI wants to seize that they're brought to justice--real justice, and not just the FBI getting to keep all that money; and that if what the lawyers say is true, and that the FBI has no claim on these assets, that they get handed right back to their rightful owners with undue haste.

I don't like that the US government feels that it can seize the assets of even people who commit crimes, unless those assets are directly involved in criminal enterprise.  Unfortunately a lot of alphabet agencies think they're entitled to just take whatever they want, and nobody's going to complain.  Luckily for the accused in this case, it seems like they're wealthy and can afford good lawyers so they might have a chance not to get all that money taken by the FBI.  It's Beverly Hills; if this had happened to some storage facility out in Bumblefuck, Indiana things might go much differently.

The FBI is just as corrupt as any other organisation in this world which is why this news didn't surprise me at all.
They've always been corrupt, ever since their beginning.  They, like most law enforcement agencies in the US, have far too much power and not enough checks and balances.
hero member
Activity: 3178
Merit: 977
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
The FBI is just as corrupt as any other organisation in this world which is why this news didn't surprise me at all. I feel sad for the innocent people that got caught in this mess. They should have stuck to safe and legal methods instead.

I feel that many of those lawsuits will simply be tossed aside. This raid reminds me of the crazy dark web raid in the past.
hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 753
This is just another reason why digital assets are going to be the future. Physical assets are just way too clunky, hard to transport, and easily exposed to be long term store of values.

There is no way for the feds to be seizing a completely decentralised, online asset class. If you were wrongfully accused of some crime then no one is going to notice that little USB stick that carries the majority of your net worth, so you are totally protected on that front.

Heck, this even reminds me of how valuable the idea of a brain wallet is (if it doesn't have all the security flaws that it does).
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
Does this surprise anyone? Asset seizure has become a regular occurrence in the United States. Anyone remember what happened to user BurtW? And this is not just the case with US, but with almost every country in the world. Nowadays a lot of the regimes think that being successful is a crime. If you have a few hundred thousand USD worth of savings, then you are automatically being labelled as a criminal. And more so, if you are keeping your assets away from the banks and stock exchanges.
member
Activity: 1120
Merit: 68
I guess that's what you get when you do illegal stuff, you damage other people's property by being part of the seized products. I think that what the FBI did is fair, they were around the crime or have been involved in it so I think that the seizure is fair plus they will probably auction it off when the time comes. If this people could've invested in bitcoin, the amount of seizure would probably be smaller.
hero member
Activity: 3150
Merit: 937
Poor people.They should've sold all their valuables and invest everything in Bitcoin+a good hardware wallet.  Grin
I bet that the FBI would never find and confiscate their cold wallets.Smirk. Grin
Anyway,I have faith in the American court(I've been watching too many "Law&Order" episodes,when I was a kid Grin ).
Lawsuits were filed and the people will get back their valuable possessions.
I don't live in the USA,but I would never put anything valuable in a safe deposit box.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1181
How did they manage to take photos of stuff and then not be able to identify whose is whose, that bit is a bit confusing.
In the quote below that I bolded, I thought it was much more confusing even though an FBI spokesman said they had reason to believe the seized items led to criminal activity.

Quote
But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.


I don't know if the FBI broke the law when they confiscated the items simply because they suspected and believed that the owners and items were involved in criminal activities. Meanwhile, the applicable law states that "you have the evidence first, and then you can take the property". Obviously foreclosure is like stealing other people's things because they don't have evidence first.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1860
It's kind of funny how a highly developed country is going through the same problem with the authorities as with a developing country like mine. Of course, I know it is a lot worse in our case, though.

When a neighbor got raided by the local police for illegal drugs, the policemen took away not just the suspect with the planted evidence but also his properties including in fact his fighting roosters. It has become an unfortunate pattern here that a police raid is almost like a license to steal.

I was reading an article a while ago of how self storage could be more secure than safe deposit boxes as they're still quite well insured, in busy areas, and a camouflaged by other items. Your $1M of gold could be between lockers containing a piano, bed sheets, a sofa, a desk chair...

Although if one is a criminal, doing so might not be a good idea. It would only take a single raid to gather all your precious belongings, out of which only half might be declared.
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
I was reading an article a while ago of how self storage could be more secure than safe deposit boxes as they're still quite well insured, in busy areas, and a camouflaged by other items. Your $1M of gold could be between lockers containing a piano, bed sheets, a sofa, a desk chair...




How did they manage to take photos of stuff and then not be able to identify whose is whose, that bit is a bit confusing.

It looks like they'll be able to get their stuff back (but might have to say what they actually had - although considering the FBI apparently can't read they might've contaminated evidence too)...
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1441

Quote
The FBI wants to keep $86 million in cash and millions more in jewelry and other valuables seized in a raid on a Beverly Hills, California, safe deposit box business, even though a judge specifically said the contents of the boxes weren’t up for grabs.

Prosecutors claim it’s fair to make the renters of the 369 safe deposit boxes forfeit their valuables, because they were engaged in criminal activity, the Los Angeles Times reported. But there’s no evidence to support the allegation.

The box holders and their lawyers say the FBI is trampling on the rights of people who were unaware the business, U.S. Private Vaults, was charged in a sealed indictment with conspiring to sell drugs and launder money.

The warrant that US Magistrate Steve Kim signed on March 17 giving permission for the FBI to raid the business even said, “This warrant does not authorize a criminal search or seizure of the contents of the safety deposit boxes.”

If the FBI wanted to search the boxes, it needed to meet the standard for a warrant of probable cause that evidence of a crime would be found. But agents rifled through about 800 boxes anyway, filming their searches and bagging the property as evidence even when the holders were unknown and not suspected of crimes.

Now, the government is trying to keep the cash, gold and silver bars, pricey watches and even $1.3 million in poker chips from a Las Vegas casino.

The government “can’t take stuff without evidence in the hopes that you’re going to get it later,” Benjamin Gluck, an attorney who represents box holders suing the government to retrieve their property, told the Times. “The Fourth Amendment and the forfeiture laws require the opposite — that you have the evidence first, and then you can take property.”

“We have some basis to believe that the items are related to criminal activity,” Thom Mrozek, a spokesman for the FBI’s LA office, told the Times.

The contents of about 75 of the 800 boxes initially seized have already been returned, and at least 175 more will be given back, Mrozek said. The feds haven’t figured out who owns what was stored in many of the others.

The indictment says U.S. Private Vaults marketed itself to attract criminals who wanted to store valuables anonymously and hide from tax authorities. One of the company’s owners and a manager were involved in selling drugs and co-conspirators helped customers convert cash into gold to evade government suspicion, the Times reported.

But box owners like Joseph Ruiz, who kept $57,000 in cash from two legal settlements there because he doesn’t trust banks, say the government is stealing their money.

“I’m made out to be a criminal, and I didn’t do anything,” said Ruiz, the son of a retired Los Angeles police officer, told the paper. “I’m a law-abiding citizen.”

Ruiz has joined one of 11 lawsuits filed by box owners seeking the return of their property.




https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/fbi-aims-to-keep-valuables-86m-cash-found-in-safe-deposit-store-raid/



....



Interesting story here.

The FBI confiscated more than $86 million dollars worth of money, valuables, jewelry and items stashed in safety deposit boxes, in a raid. Despite a search warrant which expressly forbid them from confiscating anything contained in the boxes.

This happened in los angeles. Of course, this being america there were lawsuits filed. But it seems the FBI and the state have no intent to return much of the stolen items. Despite them not having filed lawsuits against the holders of the property or providing evidence suggesting any of the assets were involved with illegal activity.

There have been claims of the DEA (drug enforcement agency) confiscating $100,000 from the safe of legal medical marijuana retailers. Without the lost funds being returned. But this is on an entirely different level with more than $86 million confiscated. Not from fringe operations like legalized weed. But from middle class or wealthy americans, who don't seem to have been involved with anything illegal or sketchy.
Jump to: