Topic: Feasibility: Labor Hour Exchange For Small Tasks In Local Communities (Read 301 times)

So the spirit of bitcoin lives on then, bitcoin has set so many legacy and what people need to do now is to forget about developing other system which bitcoin has indirectly solve in one way or the other, if we talk of tax evasion, this is still one of the features and great advantage of bitcoin. We are already in the 21st century and we are in age where technology has solved so many of these traditional operating economy system like the one the OP mentioned.

Well, the op just brought a suggestion though to see if such system would make sense or not, and he is entitled to his opinion, we don’t have to take it since we already have the solution that is needed to solve whatever problem he mentioned in a very simple way of blockchain technology.

I really don't think that you need blockchain technology with that because that is already happening profesionally. It all goes down to what you can offer to them and what kind of offer you want in exchange so it still negotiations on that point. If a service or project did this kind of thing they would offer up some kinf of way to ease up the negotiations and nothing more. There is really nothing different to it compared to what is happening in freelancing websites now since most of them are negotiating terms about the payment.

You are so right, people repeat "the rich keeps getting richer, while the poor keeps getting poorer" like mantra, but statistically the second statement is not true, global poverty, hunger, disease rates are decreasing, quality of life is improving. We are living in the most prosperous times that human history has ever known, and this is despite the fact that we also have the highest population ever - this is all thanks to technological advancement, and whether technology will keep improving exponentially or will slow down, there's still a lot of room for improvement, and as the result, people's lives will keep getting  better.

Having a common denominator that is easy, divisible ,convenient, easy of transfer was the whole idea of traditional money, perfected with crypto-currency, the challenge with the idea of Labour hour exchange is that it may be harmonize the labour-hour dynamics across the different work type.

That is a common misinterpretation of the data. A better interpretation is that the people who are rich today are richer than the people who were rich in the past, and that people who are poor today are better off than the people who were poor n the past, but not by as much as everyone else.

It is a pity that we live in a world that is very sinful, and when it comes to wealth,the rich keeps getting richer, while the poor keeps getting poorer, unfortunately, there is nothing we can really do to help this out completely, not even with blockchain technology, the only little assistance blockchain can do is to create a form of transparent system that will limit the disparity a little, just like it has done in the financial industry too, by creating a system that will freely allow both the poor and the rich to have equal and fair usage of payment system.

Before money was invented, at least what op suggested could have worked in the era of trade by batter where people could use other means to make payment equally in getting things done, but it is unfortunate that money has changed the whole system, which was the major cause of these disparities.

What you're proposing is mainly interesting to avoid taxes: if A charges B $500 for the labor, and B charges A $500 for the laber, both pay (depending on the country) maybe 20 to 60% tax. That's $100 to $300, which drains both their wallets.
If they do it without pay, there is no tax and helping someone for 10 hours in return for getting his help for 10 hours can be a good deal for both of them, especially if the (specialized) task would take each of them individually much longer.

However, if you put this into a blockchain and it reaches a more or less commercial scale, at some point the tax man will want his share again. You're basically reinventing Bitcoin with a different name.

---

---

Are you the same user who posted this on Reddit? If so: please confirm through Reddit and add a link to the OP, otherwise you risk a plagiarism ban.

Why would I go through all that nonsense if I can just use Crypto currencies instead? Yes, Person A can trade 800 000 ShiteCoin for 0.1 BTC and things like that, but trading labour hours sounds too complicated.

In any way, it is not a "new" concept, because people have been trading skills and labour for centuries. A friend of mine builds garden furniture from used wood and he sometimes trades this for favours or people's expertise. He paid a person with a whole set of garden furniture for a solar panel installation.     

Nope, they've rejected that because they know it's a f word failure.
Just analyze the situation for a bit.

The referendum was rejected by a vast majority 77%. What does this mean, it's either
- a vast majority of swiss, 77% are "elites" or "rich" which is not really how elitism works.
- even the ones with medium income knew that the proposal was simply stupid and voted against.

It was the second, trust me.


Yup, we did this experiment for 50 years since the '45. Check the history of eastern europe to see how it ended. *hint, it was pretty bad


No, that's not the way things work.
A doctor is paid more because there is a need for doctors, not everyone can become a doctor, it takes for somebody to learn this.
A janitor....eveyone can do it, you need 5 minutes on learning how a broom works, there are machines nowadays that do the work 50 times as fast as you.

The free market, offer and demand, it works the same for jobs as for goods.



It's the new trend brah!!!
If it ain't using the blockchain it must be changed.
We will soon have to use the blockchain to take a dump, pray that tx fees won't go up or you might have to hold it in for a few days.

It could be possible, but I doubt that it will pick up any steam if this was ever utilised in real life.

I agree with odolvlobo. What you described is essentially a cryptocurrency with a guaranteed time value in terms of labour, but the fact is that certain skills have higher skills requirements than others, making the relative opportunity cost in terms of training for these skills higher than others.

Universally assigning time values to each of these labour skills makes no sense to me. Even if this does go into effect in a local setting, I can see people straight away charging a premium for certain services that are more demanded or less supplied.

When people are interacting freely, they establish a market, and in market prices are driven by supply and demand. Doctors have low supply, because it requires a lot of time to learn and skill, and it's a stressful job, while janitors are in high supply, because anyone can do it. Even if we imagine that like you are saying "both are very important" - the demand is equal, they would still have different salaries.

If someone would introduce a labour-based currecy where everyone is equal, then why would people with high salaries would ever want to use it? Why would they give up their own earning while still working the same amount of time? The answer is, no one would do this, and the only way for this currency to work is if people with guns tell others to, like they did in the Soviet Union.

Yeah, chronobank definitely did that exactly, however considering the "everyone charges differently for their hours" the only option is money.

I mean money itself has no value, we put a value on it and I say my 1 hour expertise costs 5 bucks while the other person says his one hour costs 10 bucks and the ceo says it costs a million etc etc which makes it impossible for us to actually have a deal based on hours, maybe you can make it like "you work for me for 1 hour and I will work for you 5 hours" type of deal but in the end if you want to peg it to some coin that already happened and the dollar also works the same logic as well.

Maybe in very very small circles you can make a group that way and invite people over and everyone helps each other but when you make it a bigger list of people it becomes useless.

Absolutely valid argument and I can't deny that fact! However, a person needs to study a lot and also spend a lot of money to become a Doctor! That's why his time is valued more!

On the other hand, a Janitor doesn't need any educational qualification or much money to become a Janitor. That's why he is paid much less.

However, both of their services are very important for the community! Both professions are equally required to address some of the basic needs of a civilized society! So why are they

This is how the current system is designed! The current system is designed on the foundation of disparity and that's how we are trained. But that doesn't mean it is the correct way!

Switzerland recently proposed a basic income plan for all its citizens where they tried to bring everyone under a standardized platform! Which eventually got rejected by their own people because people love to live with this disparity because of their inflated ego that comes from digits in their bank account.

This should end! As a human we all are entitled to receive same opportunities to study and grow!

I urge you to read a book called "Immortals of Meluha" by Amish Tripathi. It is a work of fiction but it also talks about how a practical society can be formed! If you read this book, you will understand from where I am saying this!

An hour of a doctor's time is worth more than an hour of a janitor's time. Wouldn't you agree?

A person with a backhoe is faster than a person with a shovel. Why would a person ever invest in a backhoe if it means she gets paid less?

If you pay a carpenter one hour for her time, how does the carpenter pay her assistant?

Disparity is inevitable. Envy and jealousy are what should end at any cost.

I disagree to an extent. I do think that the current system is appalling and is failing the vast majority of people. The elite get richer and richer by sucking money from the poor, and this absolutely needs to end.

However I also think that time should be valued differently for different people doing different things. Partly because of the relative availability of people with certain skills, and partly because of the complexity of the task itself. No-one is going to dress up in radiation gear and go in and fix a melting nuclear reactor if it's the same pay as working behind a shop counter.

I do however think that inequality need to be drastically reduced. This can't really be done purely with income taxation, as the elite make most of their money by investing their existing wealth. What we desperately need is the implementation of a wealth tax. There's been some decent research into it, this book is a good read if anyone is interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century

Apologies if I've moved away a bit from the original post in the thread.

People invented money so they wouldn't have to deal with a mess like this, what's the point of going backwards and introducing these labour-hours (sounds a lot like marxism). Money is universal medium of exchange, and it's everywhere in the world - even in prisons, where inmates can't own paper money, they still come up with money in other forms, like cigarettes and instant noodles. If this small local community has access to electronic devices capable of running blockchain apps, they might as well use electronic money, be it cryptocurrencies or fiat, no need to invent some complicated blockchain scheme.

Time based currency is the future! It's wrong that each person values their time differently and that's the reason why we have so much disparity in income nowadays! 80% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the millionaires and billionaires and the rest is just getting dipped into debt! I am not a millionaire but my house costs 4 million in my local currency. TO buy this house, I had taken a loan from a bank and I am paying 35 grand every month to the bank as EMI! I also put in exactly same hours everyday in my office like any other person. Is my time valued enough?? NO!!

To end this kind of disparity, time based currency is the future and blockchain can really help us to bring the transparency in the entire system! Certainly we don't have any such system to keep track of time of an individual but we can't say that there won't be anything in future! Disparity should end at any cost!

There is no reason why a blockchain couldn't be used. It's not a new idea.

https://www.ccn.com/chronobank-brings-time-based-cryptocurrency-to-change-the-labor-recruitment-industry/

My opinion is that time-based money doesn't work, mostly because each person values their time differently, but also because there is no way to ensure that a person is paid for their time instead of for the value of their work.

I’m curious if blockchain would facilitate trusting support networks in a local community.

In this case, something along the lines of a skills exchange that allows people to contribute their skills with labor hours being the main currency.

Scenario 1 (Perfect Reciprocity):

Person A does gardening for Person B with a material cost of $100 (paid by Person B)  and a labor input of 10 hours.

In exchange for Person A’s labor, Person B can only offer computer repair services, but Person A doesn’t need these services. Instead, Person A needs exterior painting with a material cost of $75 and an approximate labor input of 10 hours.

Person C does exterior painting. Person A connects with Person C to direct 10 hours of owed labor to Person A in exchange for 10 hours of Person A’s labor to Person C.

Scenario 2 (Partial Reciprocity):

Let’s say Person A (gardening) spends 10 hours of labor on Person B and Person A doesn’t need anything from Person B (computer services). Person A connects Person B with Person C (exterior painting), and the labor input only came out to 4 hours of painting with 6 hours left over.

The following balances remain from scenario 2:

Person A is entitled to 6 hours of Person B’s referrals or computer services. Also owes 4 hours to Person C through referrals or gardening.

Person B owes 6 hours to Person A and 4 hours to Person C through referrals or computer services.

Person C is entitled to 4 hours of Person A’s referrals or gardening labor.

Scenario 2 Insights:

Person A:
Receivable: 6
Owed: 4
Net: +2

Person B:
Receivable: 0
Owed: 10
Net: -10

Person C:
Receivable: 4
Owed: 0
Net +4