And I suspect they could end up with some legal troubles soon in United States, if not also in other countries around the world.
Topic: Fedi: an application for everyday use of Fedimint by the protocol developers (Read 49 times)
September 09, 2024, 03:13:29 PM
Fedi is not going to be released as fully open source app until January 2026, and I don't trust it for chatting, so no thank you
And I suspect they could end up with some legal troubles soon in United States, if not also in other countries around the world.
And I suspect they could end up with some legal troubles soon in United States, if not also in other countries around the world.
September 08, 2024, 07:24:23 AM
One of Bitcoin’s drawbacks, in my opinion, is its inherent focus on distrust. Bitcoin is designed for interactions in an environment where everyone expects others to deceive them. I’ve noticed that people who start using Bitcoin often become more suspicious and distrustful over time, seeing potential wrongdoers in everyone around them.
Personally, I prefer living in an atmosphere of trust. It’s much more comfortable for me not to expect deceit from others. I don’t want to view the world as hostile. That’s why I tend to trust people, until a specific person’s actions lead me to lose that trust.
It’s unfortunate that my perspective is somewhat marginalized in the Bitcoin community. It’s uncomfortable to feel that the people I consider my peers reject one of my core social principles.
But I recently came across a project that combines Bitcoin with trust - Fedimint. The essence of this protocol is to allow people to use advanced financial technology, even if they lack the knowledge, skills, or confidence for non-custodial storage of their money.
If I don’t have the necessary knowledge, skills, or confidence, someone in my family might. A relative could run a Fedimint node, where the whole family can transfer their savings. For me, it looks like using any custodial wallet - simple and without too much responsibility - while for the relative, it’s no extra burden since they continue using their own node, now just with other people’s money on it.
These “community wallets” can be set up not only for families but also for close friends or even small villages where everyone knows each other.
Funds placed into a Fedimint wallet are technically stored in a payment channel on the Lightning Network. Fedimint also helps address the scalability issue of the Lightning Network. (If everyone in the world wanted to open their own payment channels, it would take decades. Fedimint reduces the number of channels needed to meet people’s payment needs since an entire community uses a single channel.)
Fedimint also supports threshold signature addresses, meaning control over community funds isn’t held by just one person but by several, based on an M-of-N principle. If one person disappears, dies, or loses their key, others can still access the funds. The main concern is that not too many “guardians” (keyholders) lose access or disappear at the same time.
What’s also interesting is that the guardians have no access to transaction information of community members. When Bitcoin is deposited into a Fedimint wallet, the user receives a corresponding amount of bearer tokens (fmBTC).
Guardians are aware of:
- The total amount of Bitcoin in the community wallet.
- The total amount of fmBTC being withdrawn.
But they have no knowledge of:
- An individual’s balance (i.e., how much fmBTC any user holds).
- The identity of the user receiving fmBTC.
- The identity of the user withdrawing fmBTC.
- Any transactions occurring between the issuance of fmBTC and its withdrawal.
The first practical use of Fedimint was implemented by the developers of the Mutiny wallet.
It’s well-known that mobile Lightning wallets often charge a fee for the initial funding due to the need to open a channel. This fee is usually no less than 2,500 satoshis. Some wallets charge 10,000 satoshis, and I once saw one that charged 50,000. This makes it unprofitable to receive small amounts in a new wallet: it’s absurd to receive 11,000 satoshis and immediately give away 10,000 as a fee.
Mutiny offered a solution to this problem. Invoices for amounts up to 100,000 satoshis can be routed through a Fedimint channel. This way, small transactions don’t incur channel-opening fees. Once your Fedimint balance exceeds 200,000 satoshis, it must be transferred to your own channel to free up space for incoming transactions in the Fedimint channel.
The Mutiny wallet will be discontinued on January 1, 2025, but the developers of the Fedimint protocol have released their own app, Fedi, which allows access to the same federations you joined through Mutiny.
The FEDI app is designed for everyday use of the protocol. Download links for iOS and Android can be found at https://www.fedi.xyz/product---
The app is most useful for those who already have a community and need to manage financial flows without involving banks or fiat currencies. In my opinion, this is a relatively niche use case, so I don’t see Fedi gaining widespread popularity. After all, relatives aren’t going to be sending Bitcoin to each other through this, are they? Why would they need to?
However, if we look at recent news, there might be demand for such solutions. For example, the local government of Argentina’s La Rioja province, in response to regional economic difficulties and reduced central transfers under Javier Milei, issued its own currency, “chacho.” These are government bonds, but given the province’s recent default, their future is uncertain. In these conditions, the region would benefit from a payment tool backed by a solid financial asset. Unfortunately, only fringe politicians are willing to bet on Bitcoin at this point. But if someone dares to take that step in the future, the technical solution to implement it already exists - and that’s the Fedi app.
For now, I’ve found one useful feature for myself in the app. Through Fedi, there’s access to products from The Bitcoin Company. A few months ago, the native app of this company stopped working on all my devices for some reason, and I haven’t been able to withdraw the accumulated cashback. Fedi allows me to do that. Besides The Bitcoin Company, Fedi’s marketplace also features other service providers you might be using too.
Personally, I prefer living in an atmosphere of trust. It’s much more comfortable for me not to expect deceit from others. I don’t want to view the world as hostile. That’s why I tend to trust people, until a specific person’s actions lead me to lose that trust.
It’s unfortunate that my perspective is somewhat marginalized in the Bitcoin community. It’s uncomfortable to feel that the people I consider my peers reject one of my core social principles.
But I recently came across a project that combines Bitcoin with trust - Fedimint. The essence of this protocol is to allow people to use advanced financial technology, even if they lack the knowledge, skills, or confidence for non-custodial storage of their money.
If I don’t have the necessary knowledge, skills, or confidence, someone in my family might. A relative could run a Fedimint node, where the whole family can transfer their savings. For me, it looks like using any custodial wallet - simple and without too much responsibility - while for the relative, it’s no extra burden since they continue using their own node, now just with other people’s money on it.
These “community wallets” can be set up not only for families but also for close friends or even small villages where everyone knows each other.
Funds placed into a Fedimint wallet are technically stored in a payment channel on the Lightning Network. Fedimint also helps address the scalability issue of the Lightning Network. (If everyone in the world wanted to open their own payment channels, it would take decades. Fedimint reduces the number of channels needed to meet people’s payment needs since an entire community uses a single channel.)
Fedimint also supports threshold signature addresses, meaning control over community funds isn’t held by just one person but by several, based on an M-of-N principle. If one person disappears, dies, or loses their key, others can still access the funds. The main concern is that not too many “guardians” (keyholders) lose access or disappear at the same time.
What’s also interesting is that the guardians have no access to transaction information of community members. When Bitcoin is deposited into a Fedimint wallet, the user receives a corresponding amount of bearer tokens (fmBTC).
Guardians are aware of:
- The total amount of Bitcoin in the community wallet.
- The total amount of fmBTC being withdrawn.
But they have no knowledge of:
- An individual’s balance (i.e., how much fmBTC any user holds).
- The identity of the user receiving fmBTC.
- The identity of the user withdrawing fmBTC.
- Any transactions occurring between the issuance of fmBTC and its withdrawal.
The first practical use of Fedimint was implemented by the developers of the Mutiny wallet.
It’s well-known that mobile Lightning wallets often charge a fee for the initial funding due to the need to open a channel. This fee is usually no less than 2,500 satoshis. Some wallets charge 10,000 satoshis, and I once saw one that charged 50,000. This makes it unprofitable to receive small amounts in a new wallet: it’s absurd to receive 11,000 satoshis and immediately give away 10,000 as a fee.
Mutiny offered a solution to this problem. Invoices for amounts up to 100,000 satoshis can be routed through a Fedimint channel. This way, small transactions don’t incur channel-opening fees. Once your Fedimint balance exceeds 200,000 satoshis, it must be transferred to your own channel to free up space for incoming transactions in the Fedimint channel.
The Mutiny wallet will be discontinued on January 1, 2025, but the developers of the Fedimint protocol have released their own app, Fedi, which allows access to the same federations you joined through Mutiny.
The FEDI app is designed for everyday use of the protocol. Download links for iOS and Android can be found at https://www.fedi.xyz/product---
The app is most useful for those who already have a community and need to manage financial flows without involving banks or fiat currencies. In my opinion, this is a relatively niche use case, so I don’t see Fedi gaining widespread popularity. After all, relatives aren’t going to be sending Bitcoin to each other through this, are they? Why would they need to?
However, if we look at recent news, there might be demand for such solutions. For example, the local government of Argentina’s La Rioja province, in response to regional economic difficulties and reduced central transfers under Javier Milei, issued its own currency, “chacho.” These are government bonds, but given the province’s recent default, their future is uncertain. In these conditions, the region would benefit from a payment tool backed by a solid financial asset. Unfortunately, only fringe politicians are willing to bet on Bitcoin at this point. But if someone dares to take that step in the future, the technical solution to implement it already exists - and that’s the Fedi app.
For now, I’ve found one useful feature for myself in the app. Through Fedi, there’s access to products from The Bitcoin Company. A few months ago, the native app of this company stopped working on all my devices for some reason, and I haven’t been able to withdraw the accumulated cashback. Fedi allows me to do that. Besides The Bitcoin Company, Fedi’s marketplace also features other service providers you might be using too.
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