Topic: Fiat banking in Portugal worsens (Read 2499 times)

Another country in financial straits

I do like the analysis he makes here there is a disconnect and it will be rearranged in the financial markets sooner or later
Dow Jones new highs and the Nasdaq as well show this trend.

Given the above, it shows that global capital markets have been disconnected from underlying fundamentals for the last twelve months, and one of the reasons is, amongst others, the low interest environment (fed by the QE policies in respectively the U.S., Europe, and Japan) that has anaesthetized capital markets from market volatilities. Additionally, the ECB has been playing with fire, with junk bonds ultimately funded by German taxpayers.

Yup.

Of course fiat banking in Portugal worsens. This is the logical result of the hopeless pit of debt they find themselves in.

The ultra rich elite have pillaged the company and now the magnitude of resources being extracted from the population is set to reach a new level.

This is the fate of most countries. Does it make any sense that entire economies this size are looking at bankruptcy? The monetary system is fundamentally flawed and there is little escape. Any economy pegged to a dollar that is created by a private company borrowing money to itself and charging interest on it will fail. The rate of failure is increased when market protections are removed, such as the Glass Steagall act repeal in 1998.

Pretty much every spokesperson either pretends it isn't so, or doesn't know any better and just reads whats in front of them, or knows better but reads whats in front of them anyways.

This is the simple breakdown of how you move wealth from the citizenry to our owners... only four simple steps!  :

1) Offer debt for 'development' of an economy. (Generally this means local resources being bought out by international conglomerates).

2) When the inevitable and unavoidable down swing of the capitalist economy comes, offer to 'help' by offering large amounts of more debt.

3) The debt becomes so large that more debt is required to just pay for the interest.

4) This continues until the country's markets collapse. Then the owners purchase the country's resources and assets in the inevitable fire sale.  (Or a country can declare bankruptcy, but they would risk severe retaliation through economic policy or military might.)

Bottom line is if you have the same group of people control money, the creation of money, and the currency is unbacked, and all the countries of the world peg their currencies to this fiat funny money then you've been fucked. Expect to make less and less and owe more and more as prices sky rocket.  This isn't propaganda, just look at any charts concerning the concentration of wealth and the growing gulf between everyone and the rich over the last 100 years. Their is the same amount of wealth in the world, its just the people at the top of the pyramid are getting better at taking it. Fiat is debt, and the interest can't be paid. The core functioning premises of our economies are irrational and irreparable, its going to end in collapse and prisons.

Deflationary crash will bring down everything with it. This include the price of bitcoin.

coming years? people expect/hope to see a boost in months, if not days. 

I think we'll see a boost in Bitcoin price in these coming years. I don't expect the EU citizens wants their properties taken away by the government

Financial crisis can be good fuel for Bitcoin to rally.

Argentina and PIGS (in Europe) should all be considered Cyprus 2.0.

US belong to another category since it is owned by China man.

If Argentina is Cyprus 2.0 that'll make Portugal = Cyprus 3.0. Then the fiat downfall of Spain -> EU -> (nearly everywhere else) -> USA.

This is true. The likely result would be something similar to cyprus. Both of these countries are much too big for the ECB to be able to effectively bail out as the EU economy is not large enough. If they tried this it would be like the ECB trying to bail out itself and that simply does not work.

The problem is - They can't let Spain/Italy fail: there will be a contagion in the Euro region
They can't really bail them out - Spain is way too big for that.

They simply CAN'T let a country like Spain become bankrupt and end up like Greece, this would mean simply the end of the EU. I fear if this happens, what the ramifications will be. The debt is insane and it is never going to be paid, that's the only thing I know. Now what they do after admiting this thing, I don't know. The thing this, it seem they will never admit this thing.

Doubt Germany will agree to any bailout this time. One strong country being dragged down by all the smaller countries in the zone.

Germany should just leave Euro zone and let bankrupt countries deal with their own problems.

The Euro Zone stutters along....

Market has been expecting PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greeks,Spain) debt situation to get haircut since 2010. I am amaze they can delay the implosion for this long.

I think you exaggerate small.  Portugal has a $200+ billion GDP and yet it has a CPI comparable to most Western European countries (e.g., a soft drink will cost you $2-$3).

The price for Germany to bailout Portugal ($200 billion to $1 trillion) it could spend on a whole variety of things to improve quality of life for Germans or to even strengthen the Germany economy.   Imagine having to do this for every 'small economy' in Europe, the Germans simply just don't have the funds.

At this rate it might be cheaper for Germany to land a man on Mars than to bailout the EU.

Germany could bail out small economies like Portugal, Greece or Cryprus. But if a big economy of the euro zone fails like Spain, Italy or France, then the show is over. Also, the Draghi show

The EU recently accepted new laws for stealing from its citizens for this. looks like we'll see it in practice real soon.

Kick back watch it crumble

The inflation would result for everyone, not just the countries that are bailed out. The European government has tried to get various banks to be less interconnected over the past 2-3 years as this was a big risk when greece was on the verge of collapsing. I don't know how successful they have been, but they have tried.

That's exactly what Germany ought to do. What are they standing for, after all?

agree with it just hit little bit time and will show something will happened

They couldn't provide too much cash to bail out other single country. They have to consider all aspects of interest and loss before making any decision. If it doesn't fit their interest, he can choose other options, leaving Euro, or imposing strict conditions to it etc.

Looks like the urbanism bubble just popped - people around the world may have to start returning to the rurals.

Well, they already took it in the past few years, kindly or not, doesn't matter.
There is a choice: to write off losses and shut half of the banks overnight together with all depositors' funds because most banks will then have a lot of failed assets on their books and effectively become bankrupt right there or print money to make that debt smaller through inflation. Google 'hyperinflation episodes in the history of money', they always chose the latter in the past.

There is a chance that other European countries will not take kindly to printing more Euros and the resulting inflation.

Sure it will result in inflation.
But not printing money will result in quick collapse of the banking system, because failed banks' shares and bonds are other banks' assets, the entire banking system is interconnected.
So it's either quick death or slow blood shed in the form of printing money and resulting inflation. The past history shows that in almost 100% of similar situations the slow blood shed was chosen, no reason to expect otherwise this time.

This kind of arrangement is very risky, and is not guaranteed for Portugal. There are obviously limits as to how much the ECB will be willing to print in order to bail out a specific country. It should be noted that printing money will result in inflation that will affect countries that were not bailed out.

germany will bail out us all 

Sure they can. Of course, not that bank or Portugal, but the European central bank, they have all legislation in place for that and they are doing it. They also have legislation for bail-ins in place. Doesn't matter what debt is denominated in, they can devalue euro to buy dollars if the debt is in dollars.

That's serious, because Portugal is connected to the whole eurozone. So it has a much higher relevance thant the default of Argentina, that was long anticipated. It's funny to see (yet again) the shameless lies of the country's government to the people ("Everything is under control, the bank has no problems.").

And I'm sure, that this will only be the beginning of further problems in other european countries.

ya.ya.yo!

The debt is denominated in other currency, they ca't print money out of their way.

Interesting that the bank's name is: Holy Spirit Bank

Apparently, "Holy Spirit" is the name of the family that owns it.  I knew they named themselves after Jesus, but this is the first time I saw anyone named "Holy Spirit".

The only way to solve it is default on debt obligations or printing money/taxing (bail-outs/bail-ins) citizens. Or a combination of all those means. In any case it will be a nasty looking affair.

So, after 4 years, they still have not managed to solve the debt problems?

They can come at me anytime, they will not find much, most of my poverty money is going to be put into BTC anyway.

Hmm... I have a feeling that Portugal Haircut will be much worse than the one that occurred in Cyprus. In Cyprus, the government only targeted hard cash lying in the savings accounts. I fear that in this case, they will seize other forms of property as well (such as real estate, fixed deposits, equities, mutual funds, bullion bars, antiques and art).

If all the population would know about bitcoins, maybe they could live better without banks.

Yep, and Portugal's a much larger economy, 10mn pop.
Bad times, they are a-coming...

Cyprus 2.0 coming soon!

Fiat risks in Portugal deepens with $550B targeted for longer term refinancing which means government backed banks are planning a bail out by the general citizens.

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140728225838-4628733-european-reality-check-portugal-s-banking-system?trk=nus-cha-roll-art-title