Financial concepts combined with certain religious concepts

Silberman

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Quote from: just_Alice on July 16, 2021, 05:42:35 PM

I think the world is divided enough as it is and all the countries should move in the direction of reaching the understanding between each other in order to avoid war in the future. If anything, economics is, to a big extent, about international relations, and this kind of separation in economics they indeed to do will make things harder on that level.

In addition, I do not agree with this quote:

Quote

“Mined cryptocurrency has intrinsic value because it costs a certain amount to produce it – but fiat currency printed digitally onto the balance sheet has no intrinsic value at all” (Mamlouk, vice president of capital markets at Nimbus)

The energy required to obtain something doesn't define value. Now, I know it's wrong to compare gold to cryptocurrencies, but in this context, I will allow myself to bring forward a certain comparison.

Saying that the value of crypto is defined by the energy required to produce it would be the same thing as saying that the value of gold is defined by the difficulty of work, which is required to mine it. But we know that it's not exactly true. The value is determined by its scarcity and demand.

Agreed, the work necessary to produce something does not translate to value and this has been debunked a long time ago, for example if I buy a gold coin and then I melted it to produce an awful figure made of gold then it is unlikely I can sell it for a price higher than the gold I used for it despite the fact I added work to it, things have value not because of some intrinsic nature but because they are useful and this creates demand for them, and if the supply is limited this increases its value, which is exactly why bitcoin is so valuable.

sunsilk

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I'm not fond about religious rules towards finance. But I know that if it's related to religion then the believers has to follow what does their belief says and there's nothing we can do with that but to respect each of our beliefs.

Quote from: palle11 on July 19, 2021, 04:42:16 AM

I think religion is one aspect that is trying to bring down Blockchain and cryptocurrency and this is why most countries that are religious are not allowing easy use of digital and cryptocurrency. They feel it is a devil's creation and innovation of dominating the world like a sign of end time that was written in religious books both Islam and Christianity. So you see much of highly religious continent placing ban on it but my question is they have not stopped to enjoy technology. They fly plans and enjoy other comforts that are technically driven.

No, it's not like that. As you see on the context or topic of this thread, it's different from the view that you've said that the religions try to bring it down. They don't.

Poker Player

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Religious concepts had their function many years ago in the previous step to a scientific world. From then on, they lost their raison d'être and were nothing more than a backward step, as it can clearly be seen through the History of Middle Ages, which was a disaster for the history of mankind.

The same applies to economic concepts, even if they are not purely scientific. Mixing rational concepts with concepts of magic can bring nothing good.

Dragonfund

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I'm not sentimental and no one should take my comment for anger.
You see, religion is hope for man and it guide men when they are need and when they are in trouble. It doesn't just make man believe but it gave them an option to rely on when they are in trouble.
I am strong believer but it's limited on my intellectual life. I make my judgment humanly and I how I understand the situation.
Let Cryptocurrency be it self and let religion be in religion aspect. As long as it's never Haram to invest on crypto, make a move and buy bitcoin today.

Issa56

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I believe there are some religions which don't really allow cryptocurrency or which don't allow digital currency but to me I don't really think there is anything bad in Cryptocurrency or digital currency. This are among the reasons why not most countries know about cryptocurrency or not everybody trading cryptocurrency but I don't think there is anything bad there.

palle11

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I think religion is one aspect that is trying to bring down Blockchain and cryptocurrency and this is why most countries that are religious are not allowing easy use of digital and cryptocurrency. They feel it is a devil's creation and innovation of dominating the world like a sign of end time that was written in religious books both Islam and Christianity. So you see much of highly religious continent placing ban on it but my question is they have not stopped to enjoy technology. They fly plans and enjoy other comforts that are technically driven.

paxmao

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I am aware that a large portion of the world live their lives thinking what religion has to say about how they live, how they spend their money, how they marry and how they pee. In Europe that did happen as well during the middle ages and well into the renaissance. For me this is just an anecdotical element of cryptocurrency, as these systems have clearly failed to generate thriving economies and states that generate wealth for their people, perhaps with the exception of a couple of places in the middle east. Even worse, some of those states cannot survive without modern slave labour and cruel repression.

The earlier crypto and religion are unlinked the better, although I admit that we are 100 years away from that and in fact many places are going in the opposite direction.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: Findingnemo on July 19, 2021, 12:05:24 AM

Mentioning it as halal is just another strategy to sell their useless tokens, actually I don't related finance with religious things but there are lot of people even the successful entrepreneurs make their decisions based on the religion as well which is actually a hindrance to their mext step of being successful. Religions are too old to evaluate these modern day economy and cryptocurrency system.

I agree, putting a Tag with Halal on it is just there to try and get more Muslim people to actually buy it. But internationally this will not be accepted. Why would anybody want to have tokens that follow religious concepts? I don't think religion has a place in the crypto world. Religion is the past and crypto currencies are the future, our god is Satoshi now.

Yup, God of cryptocurrencies should be Satoshi because he was the only one who implemented blockchain technology successfully after very long time to bring decentralization concept into monetary system. Everyone is creating their tokens and branding with different new strategies just to make profits for them.

Findingnemo

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Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Mentioning it as halal is just another strategy to sell their useless tokens, actually I don't related finance with religious things but there are lot of people even the successful entrepreneurs make their decisions based on the religion as well which is actually a hindrance to their mext step of being successful. Religions are too old to evaluate these modern day economy and cryptocurrency system.

Darker45

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Religious concepts shouldn't overlap with the likes of finance, economics, and so on. When one enters the realm of finance, one should leave his/her religious shoes outside. Having said this, I disagree with this Halal-certified crypto projects.

There is no such thing as Islamic finance. Finance is mathematics. Religion doesn't matter to numbers. Either it works or not.

We are in the modern era. Bitcoin or crypto is the future. Attaching Halal to it is pulling it backwards.

hatshepsut93

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Islamic finance is a tiny drop in the global finance. DeFi is a million times tinier drop than even that, it's basically a decentralized (but not always) method for trading shitcoins. So this hypothetical halal DeFi will have zero impact on the world. Like a few dozen crypto enthusiasts from muslim countries will use it and that's it.

Quote from: jaysabi on July 16, 2021, 05:28:46 PM

Religious restrictions when it comes to crypto or finance are like all other kinds of religious restrictions- always arbitrary and usually stupid.

Exactly, crypto should be used to bypass these restrictions, not join them. Halal crypto is not different from government-owned crypto.

maju69

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Quote from: jaysabi on July 16, 2021, 05:28:46 PM

Religious restrictions when it comes to crypto or finance are like all other kinds of religious restrictions- always arbitrary and usually stupid.

Also, the quote from this guy makes no sense. He doesn't seem to understand what intrinsic value is for one, and secondly, his argument for why crypto has "intrinsic value" (because it costs something to produce it) is exactly the same for fiat money- it costs something to produce it. In neither case is the actual cost of production a case of intrinsic value nor should it be expected to be tied to the practical value of the currency.

After I weighed and analyzed how the concept he was planning, it never hurts to respond that while a Mamlouk supports the growth of crypto with his way and point of view based on his religion, then I don't really mind it. because in this context, he tries to give a new color to the Islamic concept that he believes in and makes it a guide in religion, then combines it with the concept of digital cryptocurrency modernization, especially DeFi.
Isn't that difference a gift so that we realize that diversity makes us feel like we are nobody and it turns out that knowledge in the economic field is still minimal.

ok me. if he uses the concept with a clear foundation, then I will appreciate the way he looks at crypto through his eyes.

Sterbens

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I know this may sound like an exaggeration, but when it comes to the concepts that will be offered later why don't we just open the door wide and let us see how their concept is applied in terms of this modern cryptocurrency concept.

so no speculation is just a hypothesis.
I am still a mediator and can not draw unilateral conclusions. because it may be true that it takes quite a lot of references to integrate various ideological concepts into a religion-based economic order. what is certain is that religion already has standard rules and every standard rule has been sparked in their respective books.

Wexnident

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Quote from: maju69 on July 16, 2021, 01:13:19 PM

Quote

“Mined cryptocurrency has intrinsic value because it costs a certain amount to produce it – but fiat currency printed digitally onto the balance sheet has no intrinsic value at all” (Mamlouk, vice president of

The idea of value being linked to it's production costs is true, but not really for currencies. Crypto increases in value due to supply and demand, a natural one at that, while fiat currency has value due to the centralized government using it as the basis to measure and transact. This creates a supply and demand idea with its use, albeit being controlled by a central organization, but nonetheless, supply and demand. As for religion and finance, I don't think there's a need to connect the two? I don't know much about how it relates actually, nor what it's about but I think they can live off without doing that.

Hydrogen

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Islam has teachings against usury and excessively high interest rates. Predatory and exploitive business practices could also be frowned upon by the islamic faith. It could be a natural progression for them to gravitate towards crypto loans over banks offering (I think) higher interest rates.

Jesus being crucified shortly after ejecting money changers (ancient bankers) from a temple, may also be worth considering. The bible prophesizes accepting the mark of the beast as required for buying and selling goods and services. I doubt many religious folks think about this. If they did they might appreciate cryptocurrencies more.

Buddhism and eastern traditions I don't remember commenting much about finance. Its mainly the abrahamic faiths that do so afaik.

just_Alice

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I think the world is divided enough as it is and all the countries should move in the direction of reaching the understanding between each other in order to avoid war in the future. If anything, economics is, to a big extent, about international relations, and this kind of separation in economics they indeed to do will make things harder on that level.

In addition, I do not agree with this quote:

Quote

“Mined cryptocurrency has intrinsic value because it costs a certain amount to produce it – but fiat currency printed digitally onto the balance sheet has no intrinsic value at all” (Mamlouk, vice president of capital markets at Nimbus)

The energy required to obtain something doesn't define value. Now, I know it's wrong to compare gold to cryptocurrencies, but in this context, I will allow myself to bring forward a certain comparison.

Saying that the value of crypto is defined by the energy required to produce it would be the same thing as saying that the value of gold is defined by the difficulty of work, which is required to mine it. But we know that it's not exactly true. The value is determined by its scarcity and demand.

jaysabi

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Religious restrictions when it comes to crypto or finance are like all other kinds of religious restrictions- always arbitrary and usually stupid.

Also, the quote from this guy makes no sense. He doesn't seem to understand what intrinsic value is for one, and secondly, his argument for why crypto has "intrinsic value" (because it costs something to produce it) is exactly the same for fiat money- it costs something to produce it. In neither case is the actual cost of production a case of intrinsic value nor should it be expected to be tied to the practical value of the currency.

dothebeats

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There will always be outliers on the world stage due to their culture and how they handle things. I guess it's not bad for them to follow their religion when it comes to engaging with other countries and establishing economic relations with them. It wouldn't really hurt other countries if Islam countries follow a certain route on how they deal with and handle their economy. Pretty sure they can still make it work even though there are a lot of restrictions imposed by their religion on how to handle money, and I'm sure their experts already know what to do and how to make things work for them.

maju69

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Quote

“Mined cryptocurrency has intrinsic value because it costs a certain amount to produce it – but fiat currency printed digitally onto the balance sheet has no intrinsic value at all” (Mamlouk, vice president of capital markets at Nimbus)

what do you think about halal DeFi, and they doubt Doge?
when a Mamlouk talks mainly between intrinsic and extrinsic values then tries to combine the concept of Islamic sharia-based economics in a more complex context, namely the DeFi angle.

you can read more, the information is still new and requires quite a lot of references
source cointelegraph.com

https://twitter.com/Cointelegraph/status/1416095372351528962

Topic: Financial concepts combined with certain religious concepts (Read 167 times)